Does NTTD hate James Bond?
hoppimike
London, UKPosts: 54MI6 Agent
A couple of solid examples spring to mind but the movie is riddled with them.
The moment that made me want to make this thread was in the wine cellar scene where Paloma looks totally repulsed when James comes on to her. I didn't notice how bad it is on first viewing:
https://youtu.be/kcNwrxUiymE?t=23
But the bedroom scene with Nomi is kind of famously hard on him at this point:
https://youtu.be/eSCCohLsS3o?t=70
I found it so bad as to be immersion-breaking. It wasn't just these two women (plus the ending) but these are just the most obvious things to point out.
So... did it hate Bond?
Movies: The Spy Who Loved Me. Actor: Pierce Brosnan. Theme: You Only Live Twice. :D
Comments
So... did it hate Bond?
No, just two women didn’t want sex with him…happens all the time with me 🙈👀🤣
Paloma isn't repulsed by Bond. She's a bit embarrassed because of the confusion the two of them created. If you watch the rest of the Cuba scenes you'll see Bond and Paloma having fun working together, far from showing any repulsion. You didn't really belive the scene was included to show how women are repulsed by Bond, did you?
Nomi wants to make her mark against a legendary agent she has inherited the number from and behaves a little agressively, but I see no hate. There are a couple of elements that will be debated forever, but in my opinion James Bond is the hero of NTTD and the movie is a celebration of Bond.
I didn't have a massive problem with it killing Bond at the end although it might have been because by then I had completely lost all hope on the film, so really anything could have happened and it probably wouldn't have bothered me much.
I did take issue with Nomi wearing those ridiculous trousers when they were having a drink to him though. The rest of them were dressed kind of sombrely and the whole room was dark, and there was Nomi in these HUGE bright trousers! To me that just looked absurd and disrespectful to the character.
Movies: The Spy Who Loved Me. Actor: Pierce Brosnan. Theme: You Only Live Twice. :D
Killing Bond... I mean, the movie was already kind of a lost cause for me by that point anyway. But I did think the "JAMES BOND WILL RETURN" message at the end felt a bit bizarre after that ending.
I felt like throughout the whole movie Nomi seemed very out of place, including during the scene where they were having a drink to Bond and she was wearing these enormous white trousers that just stood out a mile and weren't even slightly appropriate.
It's like the character is just there to troll the movie and has no real interest in being part of it.
I mean, I can't PROVE this stuff because these things are subtle and ambiguous, but it's bizarre to me how some people can't see them, or at least say they can't.
Movies: The Spy Who Loved Me. Actor: Pierce Brosnan. Theme: You Only Live Twice. :D
can a film feel hatred towards one of its characters? I would have thought a film was a cold inorganic object, incapable of feeling emotions. are there other examples of films feeling emotions, towards characters or in general?
In his defence, a movie can be used to express hatered towards someone or something. Indiana Jones moviesshows hatered towards snakes and nazis, QoS seems to hate clear editing etc.
What was the problem with the ending of QoS?
Apart from it being about 20 minutes too early? 🤣
The ending of QoS was fine, it even had pause in the editing that lasted several seconds!
I could happily defend QOS quite a bit. I actually love that movie, lol
I found it so... high energy, varied, vibrant on-screen... and I really liked Greene. This idea of this "hippy"-like character who's secretly evil! That's so cool to me.
And the opera scene WOW! That is just superlative IMO.
So yeah... QOS... 9/10. Honestly, I'd defend that movie forever ^^
Movies: The Spy Who Loved Me. Actor: Pierce Brosnan. Theme: You Only Live Twice. :D
QoS is high-energy, the opera scene is good and I'm glad you like it. But it tries to mimic the Jason Bourne editing and like most movies that isn't Bourne it doesn't work. The editing is confusing. At least in my opnion. But I'm glad you're a fan and I always find something to enjoy in a Bond movie.
There's so much to like in QoS, like what I've said in the other thread, it's like Fleming's TMWTGG novel, it's unpolished and unfinished but despite of that, there's still so many things to like.
Read it here: https://www.ajb007.co.uk/discussion/55047/which-is-the-most-underrated-and-which-is-the-most-overrated-bond-film-in-your-view/p1
I liked it, despite of its flaws, I'm fond of it, the same way I'm feeling about Fleming's TMWTGG.
To be totally honest I've never watched a Bourne film start-to-finish so I can't really comment on them. Maybe I just felt they lacked character. I like Die Hard, but that has character even if it's a different kind of character to Bond. Same with Indy.
The editing... the funny thing is that I didn't actually notice anything was wrong with it until I started to hear people talking about it online years later. Now... I guess I do see it, but I don't really rate the movie down for that because I only saw it once people pointed it out.
I can see though that if someone really dislikes that style then it will have quite a big impact on their enjoyment of the film because it affects every scene.
I probably would agree that it's too fast.
Movies: The Spy Who Loved Me. Actor: Pierce Brosnan. Theme: You Only Live Twice. :D
I recomend you watch The Bourne Identity. It's a really good movie in the genere that was really influential (QoS is one example) and the editing style is done right.
Doesn't it lack a bit of charisma though? Maybe I'm wrong. I just never got the feeling when I was watching clips and things that they had as much as Bond or Die Hard or whatever.
Maybe I'll give them another look anyway sometime :)
Movies: The Spy Who Loved Me. Actor: Pierce Brosnan. Theme: You Only Live Twice. :D
I don't think the Bourne character needed much charisma. Bourne isn't supposed to be the charmer type. Saying Jason Bourne lacks charisma is like saying Danny Oscean didn't look like ha hardned killer.
Can a movie hate its characters? Yes. Examples exist in film noir, the work of the Coen Brothers, and elsewhere.
Did this movie hate Bond? No. As Gymkata beautifully laid out, this is a movie that loves Bond. And like any loving relationship, it busts his balls from time to time. This has been going on since at least Skyfall.
Nomi's white pants were inappropriate for... an impromptu meeting in M's office? It wasn't as if it was an official memorial service.
Nomi, HMHH, not Paloma. Paloma wasn't wearing pants (cold shower time) and wasn't in that scene.
Surely Bond's balls have been busted at least since CR? 😕
"Hate is a strong word, Betty. I hate Nazis" 😉
Interesting thread. I am also still in the "NTTD was (mostly) ****" camp, but I will certainly continue to revisit it, look at other opinions, and who knows, maybe someday I'll like it. That's part of the fun of a forum like this.
I think hoppimike raises a fair point about the movie treating Bond, the character and what most of us expect him to be, rather poorly. But then I also agree with the rebuttals about the two specific scenes he mentioned to underline his point. I just watched those scenes again and Bond is cool and calm as always, in charge of the situation in both cases.
With Nomi, to me it's rather clear that he expects her to have an agenda besides sleeping with him from the beginning, perhaps even having figured it out exactly, at the latest when he walks into the bedroom. What follows is a bit of (un-)friendly banter and her agressive comments seem to leave him rather unfazed. I find it highly unlikely that he is as "desperate for some action" as she claims, and she probably knows it. Bond is no longer the cocky young agent with a chip on his shoulder - she is. He is now an experienced veteran who no longer needs to play games (although he can still do so occasionally for fun, as shown in M's office "I'm sure that must hurt"). Nomi later accepts this as well, which makes her character more likeable in turn.
Paloma on the other hand was one of the absolute highlights of the movie. I only wish that Bond could have somehow escaped that damn island to go live with her in Cuba, after having killed off those silly underwritten
definitely not a virusnanobots by smoking Delectados... 😋"- That is something to be afraid of."
Yeah the end was strange...
They even gave Bond an EMP watch and then didn't allow him to use that to kill them. Weird!
I mean, the movie wasn't wholly without its charms. The first 40 minutes before Nomi turned up were alright. And... some aspects of the story did at least feel like a Bond movie, even though I felt like it was just trying to copy what a Bond movie is expected to be,
The family aspect of the final part of the film in Safin's base did make it more unique though I think, so that's good.
Movies: The Spy Who Loved Me. Actor: Pierce Brosnan. Theme: You Only Live Twice. :D
You'll be pleased to know Sir Miles that QoS is no longer my least favourite Bond Film. NTTD has taken that mantle 🤣
That’s little more than cold comfort 😕 as both are excellent Bond films for me…