MI6, MI5, England, the World
Dovy
Posts: 206MI6 Agent
To what extent do James Bond films accurately portray the history of MI6 engaged not only in saving England but usually the whole world?! Even if the style is for theatrical purposes?
And if there were so many direct threats to the whole world presumably MI6 operatives would be working together and constantly with CIA and many other national intelligence agencies. How has MI6 worked together with MI5 ? Are they like CIA and FBI? Why is MI6 in Bond so closely identified with England when one could easily say that his work transcends individual nations?I I suppose this could have been the whole focus essentially of The Man from UNCLE that would have done just that, taking Bond to the next level, although it would be hard to determine on whose behalf they operated if they were truly transnational.,...
Comments
I'm not from England, just like James Bond, so I'll recuse myself from answering this.
I often think Man with the Golden Gun is quite an interesting case in terms of the films, as it's one of the only ones (perhaps the only one?) where Bond and MI6 are working quite aggressively in the UK's favour, to take something off the world stage so that the UK can use it for their own benefit and no-one else's.
After all, solar power was conspicuously not part of the world Bond lived in from here on; what was he said to Scaramanga about the oil companies paying whoever owns the Solex handsomely to keep it under wraps...?
I think the Craig films got near to this, especially SPECTRE with the Nine Eyes idea of Denbigh, I mean there's so many countries involved in that, Blofeld was trying to control the international intelligence for the sake of his own organization, maybe to some lesser extent, also the same for Silva's plan in Skyfall.
The same for nanobots in NTTD, the Goldeneye satellite and the ATAC machine.
The same for nanobots in NTTD, the Goldeneye satellite and the ATAC machine.
I don't know if I'd say they're the same: in the case of NTTD and FYEO those were basically messes of the UK's making which MI6 had to clean up and recover, with Solex they were actually trying to take something and keep it. I'm not really sure what you mean about GoldenEye- Bond was just ordered to stop it being used.
Yes, maybe you're right about NTTD's nanobots and maybe to the lesser extent, Goldeneye (though, I also think that Bond needs to retrieve it too, if my memory serves).
But in FYEO, we know what an ATAC machine could do, hence Bond's line to General Gogol at the film's climax, "It's detente comrade, you can't have it, I don't have it" he thrown the ATAC machine down the cliff, because there'll be no other nations that would interest over that machine again, not even England, hence why Bond threw that away. So the interest of both countries (UK and Russia) was held in the plot.
Yes, maybe you're right about NTTD's nanobots and maybe to the lesser extent, Goldeneye (though, I also think that Bond needs to retrieve it too, if my memory serves).
I don't think so; pretty sure M just tells Bond to find who's using it, what they plan to do and to stop them.
But in FYEO, we know what an ATAC machine could do, hence Bond's line to General Gogol at the film's climax, "It's detente comrade, you can't have it, I don't have it" he thrown the ATAC machine down the cliff, because there'll be no other nations that would interest over that machine again, not even England, hence why Bond threw that away. So the interest of both countries (UK and Russia) was held in the plot.
That line never really made sense to me because surely the UK have loads of them at home? The idea was to stop the Russians from getting it, so it's not really like Bond 'doesn't have it'- not sure what he's going on about there! 😊
But my point is that they're trying to stop things which they own getting into the wrong hands; whereas in Golden Gun they're just trying to steal something which belongs to Scaramanga so they can have it. It's slightly fudged because Gibson has been working for the British so I guess the research was kind of theirs, but then he develops the Solex whilst working for Scaramanga.
Actually the reason they want to confiscate it from Scaramanga was because he's going to use it for bad purposes/intentions, it's a property of Britain (hence your reference of Gibson), but Scaramanga gets it from Hai Fat (whom I believed bought the solex legally), only to use it for his evil plans.
So, it's not just a matter of interest, it's the way of confiscation, Scaramanga therefore has no right to use, as it's him who've stolen it, if there's the one who's legitimate to own the Solex, it's Hai Fat.
So, what Britain did by sending Bond was reasonable and makes sense.
Unlike the ATAC machine where there's no real reason as to why the Britain wanted to retrieve that, what are they're going to do with the machine? If there's a lot of that in their country, then why need to bother with that one?
It's a matter of interest, Britain wants to get the ATAC (knowing how powerful it is), the same for Russia, as so was also the same for Kristatos.
That's why Bond decided to throw that away because he knows that either one of them could get the ATAC machine, and he just shown that Britain should not be selfish when it comes to that.
It's just my analysis.
Actually the reason they want to confiscate it from Scaramanga was because he's going to use it for bad purposes/intentions, it's a property of Britain (hence your reference of Gibson), but Scaramanga gets it from Hai Fat (whom I believed bought the solex legally), only to use it for his evil plans.
Is he though? Here's what he says:
"I'm arranging for countries that can afford the price to send experts here to see this
..... this way the highest bidder can build hundreds of stations and sell franchises for hundred more. He will literally have the sun in his pocket, a monolpoly on solar power"
Now, monopolies aren't great, but I don't know if you could call the plan to sell a thing he invented (the power plant) very evil.
So, it's not just a matter of interest, it's the way of confiscation, Scaramanga therefore has no right to use, as it's him who've stolen it, if there's the one who's legitimate to own the Solex, it's Hai Fat.
So, what Britain did by sending Bond was reasonable and makes sense.
Gibson was legitimately being employed by Scaramanga and Hai Fat (who were in business together) when he made the Solex. They didn't kidnap him or force him to do it. So although it may be based on research Gibson did while working for the British, he was employed by Hai Fat and Scaramanga when he got it working. It is theirs.
Scaramanga murdered his business partner to own it 100%, sure; but that's not really any of MI6's business.
The real baddie in this situation is actually Gibson, but we never meet him. Or, frankly, it's MI6 and the British government. As after this they appear to keep the Solex technology to themselves, rather suspiciously! As Bond says to Scaramanga:
"The oil shiekhs will pay you just to keep solar energy off the market"
Hmmm... 😁
Unlike the ATAC machine where there's no real reason as to why the Britain wanted to retrieve that, what are they're going to do with the machine? If there's a lot of that in their country, then why need to bother with that one?
It's a British code-breaker- they need the Russians not to have it otherwise they could break their codes or countermand British orders.
That's why Bond decided to throw that away because he knows that either one of them could get the ATAC machine, and he just shown that Britain should not be selfish when it comes to that.
It's not about being selfish: Britain built the thing, they know how it works.
The comments feel a little bit off track from my original post..........
Come to think of it, I wonder what a James Bond movie would look like if it resembled far more the way MI6 commentators have suggested, i.e. that operatives are rather normal people. Apparently there was a protest movement in the British security system against James Bond image, claiming that all the elements of constant promiscuity and savage violence was never typical of MI6 activities, and is a purely Hollywood invention. Have any security officials in England or elsewhere ever commented in detail about the JB films from their real perpective?
No one would watch it. It would be months of watching paint dry.
I guess people would think of that kind of more realistic James Bond as interesting as Barry Nelson was in Casino Royale in 1953!
Have you watched Jason Bourne, he's literally the spies acting as ordinary or normal people, or maybe try watching Argo with Ben Affleck.
It closely resembles Le Carre with his George Smiley.
It might be a bit of an interesting idea.
I'm not sure but maybe From Russia With Love or The Living Daylights are the closest that we could get to this? Where it's really espionage and nobody knows him (especially those ordinary citizens of the country he's working into).
dovy said: Come to think of it, I wonder what a James Bond movie would look like if it resembled far more the way MI6 commentators have suggested, i.e. that operatives are rather normal people.
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(some of) the Bond filmmakers did make a more realistic series of spy films, at the height of BondMania: the Harry Palmer films with Michael Caine!
Lousy surveillance gigs, poor pay, arguing over expenses, shabby locations, commonplace treachery and constant confusion. They're excellent!
Produced by Harry Saltzman, with involvement from John Barry, Ken Adam, Guy Hamilton and others. Very cool Saltzman had both extremes of the spy genre covered. unfortunately the dvd's are hard to find...
@Barbel created an excellent thread on the Harry Palmer films and the Len Deighton books they're based on called Rivals of James bond pt 2. (pt 1 was the Matt Helm films, which are even less realistic than Bond)
Thanks @caractacus potts and yes, I recommend that series (some are better than others, obviously).