Tarantino on Marvel
jim78
Posts: 67MI6 Agent
Tarantino showing his age and being brave enough to admit it:
But there was a western, film noir, creature, sci fi, action movie, 3D and on and on and on and off over the years crazes since cinema began.
Many different genres have had their time in the sun.
Comic book movies, surprisingly ( although with technological limitations ) didn't have a blanket craze after Superman 1978 yet it does now.
The difference is the existence of the blockbuster, the multiplex, streaming services and a host of other ways of viewing media therefore they are putting out their products where they feel they will make the most bucks.
Also I reckon COVID and stagnant, scattered and limited releases didn't help matters either.
There's a monopoly in the cinema alright.
I can relate.
When I start my trucking job the roads were smaller so we would pass through villages and towns eating proper nearly home cooked meals in cafes.
As the years went by more and more motorways were built resulting in faster arrival times, efficiency, larger profits etc...
But for us truckers there were very few places we would then travel for decent grub.
Nowadays we are mostly stuck in roadside services, Burger Kings, Subway sandwiches and such with families and kids running about.
It's annoying when your on your truck stop but such is the nature of the beast. The nature of progress.
The kids love a McDonalds but us truckers get the **** end of the stick.
I reckon it's the same with cinema. Marvel is McDonalds. If one wants to view proper cinema one has to do what a hungry trucker does and veer off the beaten track.
But I remember Jeremy Renner reiterating that those films are for the kids. It's refreshing to hear that kind of directness instead of bullshitting.
Much the same way it bugs me having my lunch beside a whinging baby but that babies in McDonalds. The kids love it so I accept it.
It's turned me into a connoisseur. Sometimes I seek Ireland's best fry up.
Found a new one this morning because I went somewhere I don't usually go.
By Jaysus the rashers were great but what pissed me off was the cinema down the road that showed old movies was knocked down in the name of progress.
But I still have my DVD's which I made the effort to buy.
Physical media ain't dead. I don't bother with streaming but it's there if I want it.
I never went to that cinema because my ex would say about a film "But you have it on DVD".
Tarantino appreciates what a truck stop is about but at the same time he appreciates the value of walking into a 150 year old decor laced pub and having a Full Irish
Kids will only eat McDonalds for so long and people, such as the current generation ( s ) will only live on surgery fantasies for so long IMO.
Things change over time in my experience.
Anyone else any thoughts on that interview please?
Comments
jim78 said:
Comic book movies, surprisingly ( although with technological limitations ) didn't have a blanket craze after Superman 1978 yet it does now
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I'd say the difference is CGI. Superman was hyped as "you will believe a man can fly" but other than that, the action doesnt really look what we regularly saw illustrated in the comic books (excellent superhero film nonetheless, I'd say it works as a film better than any of the glut of comic book movies we've had in the last twenty years)
now CGI can bring to life in three dimensions all those wild imaginative visions Kirby and Ditko used to draw in the 1960s.
I think the turning point was the first SpiderMan film. That webslinging Ditko used to draw is physically impossible, yet that film made it look completely believable, and its success led to Marvel producing their own movies..
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jim78 said:
When I start my trucking job the roads were smaller so we would pass through villages and towns eating proper nearly home cooked meals in cafes.
...
Nowadays we are mostly stuck in roadside services, Burger Kings, Subway sandwiches and such with families and kids running about.
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most of your Post is a long detour that has little to do with superhero movies, but nonetheless I found it an interesting anecdote involving both geography and history. I for one am glad that trucks don't drive through the centre of town anymore, but I never thought how this affects the drivers themselves. The world looks different from freeways than from main streets, more abstracted, and I think that increasing separation from historic downtown cores has had a negative affect on society.
Course freeways bypassing small towns was already a problem as early as 1960 when Marion Crane spent the night at the wrong motel.
by the way @jim78 I was thinking youre a new member since you only have 35 posts, and went to read what else youve contributed.
I was wrong! you've been away five years! (fishing in Jamaica perhaps?) Welcome back to ajb007!
Interesting clip. I've gone off Tarantino. he seems unable to express himself anymore. Most of his sentences are unfinished. His hand movements are distracting. His movies stink these days too. I thought it was interesting he didn't want to be seen to be criticising modern filmmakers as he recognises that leaves him open to attack. Equally though, he can't complement the continued Marvelisation of Cinema, as he puts it, for he recognises the homogenised entertainment it provides. I agree with his point that Marvel isn't creating any new stars, one or two perhaps; the ones who succeed best and go on to better things are already famous or part-way famous. He's right in that people [fans] pay to see the characters not the star. Essentially, if it was a exceptional adult cartoon, the fans would go and see that - as they did with Enter the Spider-Verse or whatever it was called. More worrying is the suggestion the film studios - or rather the massive corporation that owns them - are not interested in anything other than these billion dollar box office extravaganzas. Marvel is the meal ticket. All else is immaterial. The interviewer, who is wonderfully dry, mentions twice - without response from QT - that every time he sees a superhero film he feels as if it is the same as the last one. I whole heartedly agree with that.
Personally, I think Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was brilliant. The very end threw an entirely different light on everything that came before. And QT was self-aware enough to know he was telling a fairy tale. It was heart-breaking. In real life Sharon Tate was butchered. There weren't two lunkheads there to save her through make-believe movie heroism. The film had its share of Tarantinoisms, but there was a lot that was him going places he'd never gone before. DiCaprio and the little girl. His teary monologue in his trailer. Tarantino also got probably the best performance out of Brad Pitt in ages.
It's been discussed here more than once that Skyfall leaned hard into the Dark Knight. Whatever else you want to say about CR or QoS, they weren't comic book movies. SF and SP felt more like artifacts of an era when Marvel and DC were ascendant.
More to the point it's the chase for a billion dollars a film that's hamstrung the 007 franchise in my opinion—and I say that as someone who enjoyed Craig's run. Marvel didn't invent the blockbuster. You need to go back to Jaws and Star Wars for that. Now there's also the pressure of every movie having to succeed in China which adds another lowest common denominator quality to productions.
the video mentions Tarantino's new book, I think that must be this one: Cinema Speculation. I noticed this in a bookshop a couple weeks ago, the bits I skimmed through was him reminiscing about some rather disturbing lesser known New Hollywood films he saw as an impressionable child
has anybody else read this yet? if so, wudjya think?
It got decent reviews but no, not read it and won't be.
When I saw the first Spider-Man I couldn't get over how well his webslinging looked. I knew superhero films had definitely arrived.
This is what I was used to:
https://youtu.be/ErhFqQOEUDE
Actually the trucker portion of my post had everything to do with comic book movies.
It was an analogy.
Modern fast food/deli roadside services are like Multiplexes. Get the punters in, get their money and get them out.
No banging the roadside waitresses there I tell ye.
Whereas if one wants cinema they have to search for it nowadays much like a roadside greasepit.
Thanks.
I was gone fishing cos I ain't working any more.
:)
I agree.
I noticed that around 2008 with Iron Man...I said to myself I've seen this story before.
Although the character was different and Downey Jnr got the play at an arm's dealer with his conscience awakened.
It's funny though because each film is different but there is also a sameness to them.
In that case it's whichever character sticks out.
In my case it's Captain America. I just think he's deadly. He's like Superman except as one of the weaker superheroes who used to be a weak man with a strong heart and guts.
So he has Superman's morality, patriotism and clean cut demeanour but he's also just a Captain. His personality was formed from life's hits onto an intrinsically moral man.
jim78 said
When I saw the first Spider-Man I couldn't get over how well his webslinging looked. I knew superhero films had definitely arrived.
This is what I was used to:
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yup I remember the old live action SpiderMan teevee show and how disappointed I was. That was exactly at the point I was reading the comic book regularly and so wanted this to be good. All Marvel adaptations looked cheap like this at that point, while DC was able to produce slick clever adaptations like the Superman films and the Wonder Woman teevee series. How times have changed!
I gotta couple issues with Tarantino's specific arguments in that youtube video:
first, in saying audiences remember the character not the actor, so no careers are being launched with these films, he gives the example of Wolverine. That seems like the worst possible example to prove his point, as I never heard of Hugh Jackman before the first XMen movie and now he's a very big star, I had thought his career was launched from playing a superhero? The wide audience of a popcorn blockbuster can give a serious actor the exposure he needs to then be able to afford more artistic endeavours.
other issue is the critique about repetitive story structures, which a few have echoed here. I know Tarantino isnt talking about BondFilms instead of comic book films, he's talking about cinema in general. But we're talking about BondFilms. Thing is, in our frequent debates here most people want our Bond films to go back to when the films repeated the exact same story each time, just with a different villain with a slightly different evil plot. How different are these superhero films from old classic formulaic BondFilms? One reason I got into BondFilms in the first place is precisely because they were so similar to comic books. And Fleming was inspired by pulp fiction and Boys Own Adventure stories, much the same thing. Folks here get more upset when something different actually happens in a BondFilm.
That's true but I loved Bill Bixby's Incredible Hulk. I dunno how it holds up now but the focus was on David Banner as opposed to the comic book elements. If I recall correctly that was an instance where limited special effects technology was a strength.
Also even at a young age this kinda stuff resonated with me:
https://youtu.be/TzMSfaNXYZg
It was the same when I saw Stallone walking the highways and byways in First Blood.
It's funny because as a teen I hitched alone around the country many a time.
David Janssens The Fugitive too. Loved it.
It's just that image of a wandering man. I think 2008's The Incredible Hulk was very close to the TV series in tone but am I the only one that finds Ang Lee's Hulk endlessly fascinating? Also Sam Eliott trump's William Hurt as Thunderbolt Ross IMO and I had a fondness for Hurt as a kid. Also Nick Nolte and Eric Bana confronting each other as father and son was a fantastic scene IMO.
Speaking of Elliot would anyone else have thrown at an old West Ghost Rider film starring him? I'd have given a week's wages for that.
TBH the only actor I've ever specifically paid money to see in any film he stars in is Clint Eastwood. I thought Jackman was fantastic in Australia for instance and I saw him in Swordfish but there's so many films and other media out there nowadays it's hard to be a fan of and focus on one performer.
Also Robert Downey Jr was already a star before Iron Man even if he had a fall from grace.
The first thing I saw Chris Hemsworth was in Star Tek 2009 and he made more of an impression on me than Chris Pine did tbh. I find that man can be very deceptive because because he's stoic, conventionally handsome and sincere yet he can be funny when he wants to be but almost a straight man too while he's doing it ( although he must've been tripping to have done Ghostbusters lol ).
I don't have much time for films anymore but Chris Pratt I reckon would definitely have been a film star in the 80's too IMO. The man has it.
Chris Evans I liked in the Fantastic Four films but who hasn't seen that cocky character a million times? It was when I saw him in Sunrise I realised he was worth keeping an eye on. There's an old school sincerity and strength to his Cap that I can just really relate to.
Mark Ruffalo would give Bill Bixby a run for his money in my head and that's no mean feat considering Bixby's a childhood memory.
Don Cheadle, Jeremy Renner and so on. I mean you mostly can't fault the casting in those films no?
https://youtu.be/pj3ou70j44I
That thick was he huh?
https://youtu.be/V0YejZC79wE
A girly run over to some young boys he could intimidate huh?
https://youtu.be/mtdTnK5I5WE
Wish I have known that at the time. I'd some good friends around there.
Did no one think to ask why he was intimidating them while I was wandering around unfazed, not bothered and grand?
It was cos I knew he was a lightweight and a pussy and he was terrified everyone would find that out if he ever tried to act the bollocks with me again.
Down to the wire with me mates too. Anyone would tell ye that...