Controversial Bond 26 Opinion...
Kronsteen10
Posts: 11MI6 Agent
(Just my opinion...I know not everyone will agree and this may sound like total heresy but I am curious if anyone feels the same way and happy to hear counter opinions)
At his core, Bond is a former SBS/SAS type turned civil servant. He is also a bachelor with a refined taste and a penchant for fast cars, exotic women, and high quality liquor
How could the next reincarnation of Bond accomplish this characterization without being anachronistic and completely unrealistic? How would Fleming write Bond if he was starting in the modern day?
- Bond needs to ditch the PPK and start carrying a modern firearm.It is so preposterous that he would be using the guns that he has been using, especially the PPK. I believe the modern day version of Bond would carry a Glock...maybe a CZ or HK. At the very least, something striker-fired.
- No more Aston Martins...the world has changed and it is no longer possible to suspend believe that there is ANY chance an operator/spy would have any interest in owning or driving an Aston Martin in the modern day...Even if Bond had the money for one, he would no doubt choose something faster for much less money. The modern day version of Bond would probably drive an American muscle car like a Dodge Charger and spend lots of time upgrading it in his garage. Also, I think he might have a Toyota truck or SUV for less serious driving.
- Bond is going to need to retire as a walking clothing commercial. As the world changed its aesthetics from suits, leather, and natural materials to T shirts, cheap materials, and plastic everything, the designers of the Craig films were able to avoid portraying our era accurately by designing refined, beautiful, and vintage sets or traveling exclusively to old world locations. But it's getting more and more dubious for Bond to be walking around being a designer fashion influencer all the time and wearing thousands on his back at any given time. It made sense in Connery's day because stuff wasn't nearly as expensive in proportion to cost of living/salaries. Also, more people wore suits and nice clothes than they do today. But Bond should always exist in the present, and I believe the next Bond needs to be a bit more grounded and modest in his clothing selection.
I know I'm dreaming to think EON will walk away from all their sponsorship money but that is part of what makes it no longer authentic.
Bond needs to get back to being the coolest man on Earth - not the fanciest man on Earth.
Comments
I think you're onto something, but I don't agree on your conclusions. His gun should be an elegant concealed carry pistol, and I doubt anyone thinks Glocks are elegant.
American muscle cars are also wrong for Bond. This isn't Fast & Furious. Bond is more stylish.
I think Brosnan went to far when it came to being a "walking clothes commercial". But I think Bond should be better dressed than the average man.
In conclusion: Burn the witch! 👺😉
That's fair! I agree those things don't seem like our current interpretation of Bond and it would certainly take a big paradigm shift...But part of me wonders if, under the right circumstances, the new Bond could capture some of that old school utilitarian Bond and once more make it not about the tool but the man using the tool...I think Fleming wouldn't have necessarily chosen tools for Bond based on what was stylish or elegant...I think he would've chosen tools based on practicality, function, and what real life intel officers would use at the time.
Fleming based most of his decisions for Bond on personal preference and what he knew from his own experience. Indeed, this led to Fleming’s Bond being a bit anachronistic even in his own day. He drove a Bentley from the 1930s and originally carried a firearm that was woefully underpowered simple because it was similar to the mouse gun that Fleming carried during the war. Granted, Fleming upgraded these items over time, but I think there’s still room for Bond to carry a PPK and drive an old Aston as his personal car. Plenty of people who know a lot about firearms and rely on them every day dislike striker-fired polymer pistols.
That said, I agree, that the modern Astons are totally out of place. And Bond should wear a couple of English bespoke suits per film, and spend the rest of the time wearing stylish, well-made but functional casual clothing.
The trick with Bond is always finding a way to keep him relevant without losing the stuff that makes him Bond. They’ve done a pretty good job with this over the years, including during the early Craig films. It wasn’t until Skyfall that it started to feel a bit like self-parody.
What you say makes sense, Mile's Messervy. Up to the last sentence, that is. I'd say a lot of what Moore and Brosnan did tended towards self-parody, much more than anything Craig ever did.
Miles Messervy, totally agree about the English bespoke suits...Can't have Bond without some good quality bespoke suits. My clothing knowledge is lacking here, but has there ever been any controversy about Bond wearing Italian and American brand designer suits when England has such a strong heritage with suit-making? I really don't know this subject, but seems Bond would wear English.
Wish I could agree about the PPK (I love the PPK and have one myself) but .380 round size with 7 round magazine capacity....Plus the overall weight as well as initial heavy double action trigger pull....Ooof I want to believe but there's just no way. M would be calling him into his office for a meeting with Major Boothroyd.
I'm happy the PPK stayed in Bond's hands as long as it did, but out of all the anachronisms in the films I think this is the biggest. Bond's sidearm is his primary tool and his life depends on it. In the argument of building a new Bond whose coolness doesn't rely on the gear of the 60s Bond, I think he should carry what an operator fresh out of the SAS/SBS would carry...a 9mm polymer striker fired. The guys that would still prefer carrying DA/SA are of an older generation than whoever the new Bond will be. Just my opinion! I could rant about this for hours so I'll cut myself off😂
Thanks for the good points!
Gymkata, If anyone could pull that off then I'd say Bond could...although I think I still like the idea of English tailored bespoke suits. That one makes sense to me. Him driving an Audi is an interesting idea.
I don't think I want to watch that though. Netflix are making about ten series a week about ordinary spies.
That’s a great point. Bond has always been a fantasy. John LeCarre owed his whole career to showing us what real spies are like and do. And you’re entirely right about Netflix.
It's weird: there are so many spy things on the streamers at the moment. And not because there's a massive interest in spies; it feels like they just haven't thought about it much. 'We need an action series/film for next quarter - what kind of people are in action things who aren't superheroes (because we don't have the licence) - spies are easy'. There was one last week with Gal Gadot (which was more watchable than most but still utterly unmemorable); I hope they don't make people bored of spies before Bond comes back.
What spefically makes you @Kronsteen10 think he would drive an American muscle car? I understand where you are coming from with your post, but that would seem so out of character to me. Then again, I also don't like the Audi idea @Gymkata. Going with a German brand would be against the spirit of book bond, who had memories of the war and did not seem to view Germany all too favorably if I recall correctly. Although he does not mind foreign products in general, so long as they are good. If they did go that route, why not BMW again, who make fast and well-made cars, mostly just below the level of actual "luxury" - and not just rebranded Volkswagens 😅
"- That is something to be afraid of."
A real spy would. But Bond is a fantasy. "Realism" in Bond movies is about suspending disbelief, not showing reality.
Book Bond seemed to go for British cars mostly, specifically Bentleys although I don't know if the current brand would suit him as it did in the 50s. He seemed to like brutish, 'selfish', preferably second-hand big cars; so in a way I can kind of see the muscle car thing (and I think the AMV8 in Daylights was a really good fit for Bond- it was even grey, just how he liked them). I guess Bond Bond now would go for.. I don't know, maybe something like a Jaguar Project 8?
In truth, seeing as the book Bond drove a big, selfishly over-engined, powerful 20 year-old British GT car; I can imagine the Bond of today driving:
An old Aston Vanquish, as seen in Die Another Day. Here's one in grey. It does kind of suit him perfectly.
@Ornithologist My reasoning comes from the thought that, if eon wants to keep Bond relevant, they are going to have to do a bit of a radical updating of Bond's world. If Fleming was writing the Bond novels in this decade, do you think he would give Bond an Aston Martin?
In today's turbulent world, would an intelligence operator on a modest civil servant's salary, splash out enough money to buy a house for a car that is more luxury focused than speed focused? Fleming's Bond didn't care about luxury, he cared about speed! He bought beautiful racing cars and gave them ugly modifications just so he could squeeze more horsepower out of them.
When I think of the type of vehicle that would make sense for that type of man to buy, I personally think of a Dodge Charger with an upgraded engine but I am certainly aware that doesn't at all follow the film evolution of Bond. There is probably a better choice out there also...I just can't think of a modern English equivalent. I'm also aware that this will never in a million years happen and it would maybe even be more unpopular than the NTTD ending🤣
There is probably a better choice out there also...I just can't think of a modern English equivalent.
I literally just gave you two! 😁
I'm not sure it was just about speed for Bond; if it were he could have had a supercharged MG or something. But there's just a touch more snobbery about the Bentley, and something about the sheer size of it he seems to enjoy too. Plus he uses it in the books to cruise around the continent- he wants a tourer rather than a sportscar.
50s Bond would rather like an old Bentley Brooklands I think
Or maybe even a Rolls Wraith
Or, why not go for something older, like a Lister XJS
Or an old XKRS
This ^
Suffice it to say that MUCH has been written over the last 30 years about whether Bond should be wearing Italian or American suits rather than English. Put me firmly in the English camp, but the producers seem to be more interested in brand-tie-ins, which are beyond most (all?) of the bespoke houses. I’d settle for someone like Dunhill, though, if it has to be a big brand.
On the PPK, you make great points. I have a new-production .380 PPK and it’s certainly not an “operator’s” gun by modern standards. It’s heavy and (arguably) under-powered, and the da/sa trigger is grabby. But it’s still very concealable and—importantly—still one of the sexiest guns ever made. The latter point, for me, still makes it relevant for Bond despite its other shortcomings. Along those lines, if Bond was to go modern (as he did during the Gardner novels), perhaps the new Beretta 80x Cheetah would be a nice choice?
I think any steps taken that would further Americanize Bond would be stupid. Britain's brand is Bond, and Bond's brand is Britain. For many of us who live outside the UK, his Britishness is the charm and central to his appeal. Give us Saville Rowe suits. Astons, Bentleys, and Jaguars. And keep the Walther for old time's sake, but if you must make it more powerful, then make it a PDP Compact.
I can't picture Bond driving a Rolls. To me it's a car for counts and oligarchs, not secret agents (even a highly fictional one).
When it comes to guns the Beretta x80 Cheetah looks too large to me, and not a concealed carry gun. The Walther PDP Compact seems a bit smaller, but the design looks brutalist and not elegant. A modern gun that's closer to what Bond should carry is the Beretta Px4 Storm Compact, but it should've been slimmer.
I'm not a gun person, but I did think that the PPK looked oddly old fashioned in NTTD etc. Especially when he's in all of his combat gear at the end and then pulls out this old gun.
My impression is that much like cars, 90% of modern guns look the same. I think Bond should use a concealed carry pistol that looks both distinctive and elegant. After a quick Google Images search I think the Ruger EC9 looks like the sort of gun Bond should use if (big IF) he got a more modern gun. However I don't know how powerful the 9mm Luger of the Ruger is compared to the PKK's 7.65 mm. Both also have only a capasity of 7+1 rounds.
I’ve handled a Cheetah and it is very much a concealed carry firearm. Much smaller and thinner than it looks in pictures. It’s chambered in .380 (same caliber as Bond’s recent PPKs), and has some of the characteristics that one might imagine Bond would appreciate (no polymer, DA/SA trigger), but was just released this year so it’s in a modern weapon. And Since Fleming’s Bond preferred a Beretta, it has some pedigree.
Bond has an history with Beretta and I too wouldn't mind 007 using the brand. Obviously I trust your judgment on the consealability of the Cheetah. But to me it looks too much like the Beretta 92 and other service pistols. I'd rather have Bond carry a slimmer version of the Px4 Storm Compact.
Craig’s Bond used SIG Sauers almost as much as he did Walthers so I will throw into the mix my own carry gun the P365XL.
I also own the Berettta PX4 Compact and while it’s a great gun, I think its design is a little too futuristic for Bond.
I don’t find the Walther PDP as brutalist as you do, @Number24, but I think we both agree that James Bond should never ever carry a Glock.
To my eyes the sig Sauer looks too generic, but that's of cource just my opinion. The Beretta Px4 compact does look fururistic, I agree on that. Personally I don't find it too futuristic.
Here are photos of the pistol that are beoing discussed, to help members put a "face" to the names.
Berettta PX4 Compact
Sig Sauer P365XL.
Beretta x80 Cheetah
I know the Walther PPS m2 has been discussed earlier:
Ruger EC9
That looks about right.
I just discovered the Walther PPK was first designed in 1929. This means (if something goes terribly wrong) the gun type will turn a hundred years old during the next Bond actor's tenure. This doesn't mean the PKK won't be exactly as deadly as it was when Connery was Bond. A gun from the American civil war will be as deadly today as it was in 1861 if it has been handled and oiled with care. This doesn't mean a gun can't get outdated over time, of course.
The Walther PDP
@emtiem Wasn't meaning to ignore your suggestions! Both the Jag and the Vanquish are sexy vehicles and certainly would make sense. I just didn't think to put them into that type of vehicle classification....I never thought of either of those in the same way that I do Chargers (kind of blunt street racing horespower machines). I agree that there may be room for a compromise here...literary Bond may be one thing but film Bond is clearly another thing and maybe a good first step to grounding Bond is to find a good in between. Personally, I think Casino Royale absolutely knocked this out of the park. There was a reason for all the luxury in this film built into the plot.
@Cheverian @Number24 @Miles Messervy I like the idea regarding Beretta! That call back to Fleming would be really cool
Another good one that would be appropriately snobbish for Bond would be HK's new CC pistol. I believe it's called the HK SFP9CC. It's very small, very concealable, and probably around $900 or something crazy. Perfect for a man of elevated tastes like Bond.
The PDP compact is actually not the most concealable due to its thickness (at least for me it wasn't..maybe Bond would have better luck)
The P365XL certainly could fit the ticket but I am biased against Sig because I hate how they do marketing. The gun itself is certainly a good shout.
I have shot that Ruger and to be honest, it's not a bad gun, but it might be a bit too budget friendly for Bond.