@ManyLivesofJamesBond I got my copy of the book shipped to South Africa and I'm very pleased to have it in my hands now. After reading a few of the chapters I can say that it is a very impressive piece of work and truly is the comprehensive guide to the continuation novels that I have been hoping for. I'm looking forward to speaking with you about the book and the continuation novels on the Spybrary podcast soon!
Golrush007 --- That makes me so happy to hear. I wasn't sure if anyone wanted to read a book about other books. So I'm really glad that you found something of value in it!
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
edited February 22
Episode 229 of the Spybrary Podcast - James Bond After Fleming: The Continuation 007 Novels with Mark Edlitz:
Thanks for sharing the podcast episode @Silhouette Man. It was a real pleasure to chat with you, Bill and Mark about the novels and of course, Mark's book...if only we'd had more time we could have talked about the books for hours. @ManyLivesofJamesBond
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
Thanks for hosting the podcast episode, @Golrush007 - you were great! It was a pleasure to talk to you and Mark and Bill as well about a subject we all love. The time did go in very quickly but you asked some great questions and I think we got a good bit of ground covered.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
I was interested to hear Mark mention that IFP specifically requested that Raymond Benson wrote his Bond novels in a cinematic style, which I think explains a lot of the problems I have with them as thrillers.
Also the brief section of Per Fine Ounce, one of the lost Bond novels. You wonder if IFP still has a full manuscript...
I liked Mark's interpretation that the continuation novels are not a Marvel Cinematic Universe and that there is no need to enforce a continuous timeline on the writers, that the books complement each other because of the differences. Each author has been allowed to write in their own style and about their own passions and not necessarily about the same James Bond. We are getting into DC Universe territory here, but is seems quite apt, I feel.
@Silhouette Man's little ditty about John Gardner's background in military service and as a successful writer is always worth a reminder. Am I correct in that he confessed to an alcohol problem and that writing became his substitute addiction - hence his ability to continuously complete two novels a year? It wasn't mentioned. Maybe I misremembered that.
Still a good discussion forum, very even handed [good thing too] and a good intro to Mark Edlitz's book.
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
The video version of Spybrary episode 229 has now been uploaded to YouTube as well:
Yes, in his younger years John Gardner sadly suffered from alcoholism largely exacerbated by following his father into the Church of England clergy, a job he very soon realised he wasn't cut out for at all. It took him four years to get out of this job, ending up in a mental hospital. At one point doctors told him if he didn't stop drinking he'd have six months to live. That was the turning point in his life. In the late 1950s he was happily cured of his addiction to alcohol by a mixture of hypnotherapy and aversion therapy and he never had an alcoholic drink again after I think 1959 until his death from herat failure in 2007. This is covered in his first book (and only work of non-fiction), Spin the Bottle: The Autobiography of an Alcoholic (Muller, 1964). His doctor had suggested that he write the book as part of his therapy and recovery. It was one of the first books on alcoholism written by an actual alcoholic (as opposed to doctors or academics) and it was required reading in many medical university libraries and adorned the shelves of Harley Street doctors. The book also details his experiences as a Royal Marine commando during World War II.
Of course, one is always a recovering alcoholic and he knew he could never have a drink again if he wanted to live. Gardner put it very well when he replied to Don Swaim in a radio interview when he suggested he could try alcohol again, "Would you drink strychnine?". In another interview Gardner said that he smoked and drank for England and he only stopped smoking after a heart attack in 1995. You're right in that he often wrote more than one novel a year, one of his own novels and his yearly Bond novels. In fact, between 1963 and his death in 2007 he wrote 55 books in all, in a 44 year period. Of course he said he'd been writing every day and night for a decade before that as a theatre reviewer and journalist for the Stratford-upon-Avon Herald. He also wrote several plays during this time, which have sadly been lost, though he said they weren't very good. Still, he was getting the words down on paper which is what it's all about. He was amused when he was called an "overnight success" by the press when his first novel The Liquidator (1964)did so well when he'd be writing for years previously!
I recall Gardner saying in a BBC Radio 5 Live interview with Simon Mayo on 23 July 2002 while promoting Bottled Spider (which I managed to record the tail end of) that he was "addicted" to writing and "can't get enough" so in that sense I think you are correct, @chrisno1. He switched one addiction for another and he really threw himself into his work and became a prolific thriller writer, also writing a few straight novels as well along the way such as The Censor and Every Night's a Bullfight.
If anyone is interested in hearing a bit more about Gardner's life and Bond novels this earlier 2019 episode of the Spybrary podcast in which I also participated with two other Bond fans is worth a listen:
Thank you SM, funnily enough I got strangely Fleming vibes from your post: it almost feels like a backstory to one of his characters- especially the strychnine bit.
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
I do think John Gardner had one of the most suitable backgrounds of any of the Bond continuation authors and although he is sadly often derided it's hard to dismiss his large body of work with Bond and beyond. Here's an excerpt from the conclusion of one of my Bondologist Blog articles which hopefully sums it up a bit better:
On paper, Gardner was probably the best qualified of any of the James Bond continuation authors to follow in the footsteps of Ian Fleming. Gardner was variously; in the Home Guard, the Fleet Air Arm, the Royal Marines and a stage magician with the American Red Cross Entertainments division. Gardner also had a degree in Theology and was an Anglican priest for five years, and held the degree of Associate of the Inner Magic Circle in the Magic Circle in London. He was also a member of the International Brotherhood of Magicians and was inducted into the Baker Street Irregulars as ‘Moriarty’ in the mid-1980s. Gardner was also a journalist, a theatre and art reviewer and critic for the Stratford-upon-Avon Herald, a lecturer in the United States with the Royal Shakespeare Company and an author of some fifty-five books, many of them bestsellers. It was these various fascinating occupations that made Gardner the ideal candidate to take over from where Ian Fleming left off in 1964 and transport James Bond into the 1980s and 1990s. This was the nature of the brief that Gardner was given by Glidrose when he took on the mantle of the James Bond authorship. Although Gardner’s much vaunted predecessor as Bond continuation author, Kingsley Amis (1922-1995) (author of Colonel Sun, 1968) had served during World War II as a lieutenant in the Royal Corps of Signals and knew how to use a Thompson sub-machine gun, he was unable to do normal everyday things like driving a car and refused to fly by plane, instead preferring to travel by train and he quite regularly took panic attacks which only eased when his wife took him into the bedroom of his son, Martin Amis. In that sense, a less likely Bond continuation author could surely not have been found, were it not for the fact that he had previously written two books on James Bond, The James Bond Dossier and The Book of Bond, or Every Man His Own 007 (both 1965).
The most annoying thing about Mark’s book is the fact it wasn’t proofread….one chapter alone has over a dozen instances of mixing names up or just badly mangled sentences, and it happens throughout…frustrating…but it IS an excellent book and a ‘must have’ 🍸
YNWA 97
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
The book actually was proofread by several people including myself though unfortunately I didn't get the whole book proofread before publication (just up to the end of the John Gardner Bond novels). I'm sure Mark would appreciate some details on the remaining errors by PM as the book is print on demand and so as I understand it the text can still be amended for future editions.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
That is disappointing @Sir Miles as I was considering purchasing this...
Proof reading is phenomenally difficult. As a favour I proofed an extended forward to a friend's fantasy novel and it took me two days to cover 19 pages, about half an hour to 45mins a page - and I wasn't having to link across chapters and subjects, only punctuation, spelling, layout, story development, prose style, tone. There are professionals out there, and this kind of book I feel would require a specialist pro, not just beta reader enthusiasts and colleagues [no offence, @Silhouette Man, I am assuming you are not a professional proof reader, if you are, my bad].
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
Yes, proof reading isn't the easiest of tasks but it's a necessary evil. I'm in no way a professional proof reader or even writer but I have had experience over the years writing and editing my own academic work in History, English and Law and with my own Bond articles. It never seemed to matter how many drafts something went through; you always spotted a new mistake or something you felt like rewording. Of course I'm not trained as a proof reader and so am very much an amateur and so I'm sure I miss plenty of things too. I tried to pick out as many little grammatical or factual errors as I could using Track Changes and also offered some suggestions for small additions as I saw fit. As you say it's very slow work and I'm not the quickest to start with. With other people doing the same it should root out most of the errors but sadly some may still remain.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,753Chief of Staff
Please don’t let these little niggles put you off…I very much enjoyed reading it and it’s definitely worth adding to anyone’s collection…it’s a great reference book 🍸
When my copy arrived I opened it and spotted several mistakes in the first 5 minutes, but since then honestly I think I've just been carried by the many strengths of the book. If there are further errors, I've ceased to notice them.
Comments
I imagine it won't take as long as that if you're in the UK. Perhaps it's an error on Amazon's part? Hopefully that's what it is anyway.
It seems to be two different listings: Chris is looking at this one:
But this one will get it delivered immediately, tomorrow if you have Prime:
That's bonkers...
Jeff Bezos works in mysterious ways...
@ManyLivesofJamesBond I got my copy of the book shipped to South Africa and I'm very pleased to have it in my hands now. After reading a few of the chapters I can say that it is a very impressive piece of work and truly is the comprehensive guide to the continuation novels that I have been hoping for. I'm looking forward to speaking with you about the book and the continuation novels on the Spybrary podcast soon!
Golrush007 --- That makes me so happy to hear. I wasn't sure if anyone wanted to read a book about other books. So I'm really glad that you found something of value in it!
Episode 229 of the Spybrary Podcast - James Bond After Fleming: The Continuation 007 Novels with Mark Edlitz:
https://spybrary.com/james-bond-after-fleming/
Hosted by @Golrush007 and featuring Mark Edlitz, Bill Kanas (and me). 🙂
Thanks for sharing the podcast episode @Silhouette Man. It was a real pleasure to chat with you, Bill and Mark about the novels and of course, Mark's book...if only we'd had more time we could have talked about the books for hours. @ManyLivesofJamesBond
Thanks for hosting the podcast episode, @Golrush007 - you were great! It was a pleasure to talk to you and Mark and Bill as well about a subject we all love. The time did go in very quickly but you asked some great questions and I think we got a good bit of ground covered.
Thanks for that excellent podcast @Golrush007
I was interested to hear Mark mention that IFP specifically requested that Raymond Benson wrote his Bond novels in a cinematic style, which I think explains a lot of the problems I have with them as thrillers.
Also the brief section of Per Fine Ounce, one of the lost Bond novels. You wonder if IFP still has a full manuscript...
I liked Mark's interpretation that the continuation novels are not a Marvel Cinematic Universe and that there is no need to enforce a continuous timeline on the writers, that the books complement each other because of the differences. Each author has been allowed to write in their own style and about their own passions and not necessarily about the same James Bond. We are getting into DC Universe territory here, but is seems quite apt, I feel.
@Silhouette Man's little ditty about John Gardner's background in military service and as a successful writer is always worth a reminder. Am I correct in that he confessed to an alcohol problem and that writing became his substitute addiction - hence his ability to continuously complete two novels a year? It wasn't mentioned. Maybe I misremembered that.
Still a good discussion forum, very even handed [good thing too] and a good intro to Mark Edlitz's book.
The video version of Spybrary episode 229 has now been uploaded to YouTube as well:
Yes, in his younger years John Gardner sadly suffered from alcoholism largely exacerbated by following his father into the Church of England clergy, a job he very soon realised he wasn't cut out for at all. It took him four years to get out of this job, ending up in a mental hospital. At one point doctors told him if he didn't stop drinking he'd have six months to live. That was the turning point in his life. In the late 1950s he was happily cured of his addiction to alcohol by a mixture of hypnotherapy and aversion therapy and he never had an alcoholic drink again after I think 1959 until his death from herat failure in 2007. This is covered in his first book (and only work of non-fiction), Spin the Bottle: The Autobiography of an Alcoholic (Muller, 1964). His doctor had suggested that he write the book as part of his therapy and recovery. It was one of the first books on alcoholism written by an actual alcoholic (as opposed to doctors or academics) and it was required reading in many medical university libraries and adorned the shelves of Harley Street doctors. The book also details his experiences as a Royal Marine commando during World War II.
Of course, one is always a recovering alcoholic and he knew he could never have a drink again if he wanted to live. Gardner put it very well when he replied to Don Swaim in a radio interview when he suggested he could try alcohol again, "Would you drink strychnine?". In another interview Gardner said that he smoked and drank for England and he only stopped smoking after a heart attack in 1995. You're right in that he often wrote more than one novel a year, one of his own novels and his yearly Bond novels. In fact, between 1963 and his death in 2007 he wrote 55 books in all, in a 44 year period. Of course he said he'd been writing every day and night for a decade before that as a theatre reviewer and journalist for the Stratford-upon-Avon Herald. He also wrote several plays during this time, which have sadly been lost, though he said they weren't very good. Still, he was getting the words down on paper which is what it's all about. He was amused when he was called an "overnight success" by the press when his first novel The Liquidator (1964) did so well when he'd be writing for years previously!
I recall Gardner saying in a BBC Radio 5 Live interview with Simon Mayo on 23 July 2002 while promoting Bottled Spider (which I managed to record the tail end of) that he was "addicted" to writing and "can't get enough" so in that sense I think you are correct, @chrisno1. He switched one addiction for another and he really threw himself into his work and became a prolific thriller writer, also writing a few straight novels as well along the way such as The Censor and Every Night's a Bullfight.
If anyone is interested in hearing a bit more about Gardner's life and Bond novels this earlier 2019 episode of the Spybrary podcast in which I also participated with two other Bond fans is worth a listen:
Thank you SM, funnily enough I got strangely Fleming vibes from your post: it almost feels like a backstory to one of his characters- especially the strychnine bit.
Well, that's the nicest compliment I've ever received. Thank you, @emtiem. 😊
I do think John Gardner had one of the most suitable backgrounds of any of the Bond continuation authors and although he is sadly often derided it's hard to dismiss his large body of work with Bond and beyond. Here's an excerpt from the conclusion of one of my Bondologist Blog articles which hopefully sums it up a bit better:
On paper, Gardner was probably the best qualified of any of the James Bond continuation authors to follow in the footsteps of Ian Fleming. Gardner was variously; in the Home Guard, the Fleet Air Arm, the Royal Marines and a stage magician with the American Red Cross Entertainments division. Gardner also had a degree in Theology and was an Anglican priest for five years, and held the degree of Associate of the Inner Magic Circle in the Magic Circle in London. He was also a member of the International Brotherhood of Magicians and was inducted into the Baker Street Irregulars as ‘Moriarty’ in the mid-1980s. Gardner was also a journalist, a theatre and art reviewer and critic for the Stratford-upon-Avon Herald, a lecturer in the United States with the Royal Shakespeare Company and an author of some fifty-five books, many of them bestsellers. It was these various fascinating occupations that made Gardner the ideal candidate to take over from where Ian Fleming left off in 1964 and transport James Bond into the 1980s and 1990s. This was the nature of the brief that Gardner was given by Glidrose when he took on the mantle of the James Bond authorship. Although Gardner’s much vaunted predecessor as Bond continuation author, Kingsley Amis (1922-1995) (author of Colonel Sun, 1968) had served during World War II as a lieutenant in the Royal Corps of Signals and knew how to use a Thompson sub-machine gun, he was unable to do normal everyday things like driving a car and refused to fly by plane, instead preferring to travel by train and he quite regularly took panic attacks which only eased when his wife took him into the bedroom of his son, Martin Amis. In that sense, a less likely Bond continuation author could surely not have been found, were it not for the fact that he had previously written two books on James Bond, The James Bond Dossier and The Book of Bond, or Every Man His Own 007 (both 1965).
Taken from:
https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/john-gardners-seafire-and-defence-of.html?m=1
I’ll be giving this a watch later on…👍🏻
The most annoying thing about Mark’s book is the fact it wasn’t proofread….one chapter alone has over a dozen instances of mixing names up or just badly mangled sentences, and it happens throughout…frustrating…but it IS an excellent book and a ‘must have’ 🍸
The book actually was proofread by several people including myself though unfortunately I didn't get the whole book proofread before publication (just up to the end of the John Gardner Bond novels). I'm sure Mark would appreciate some details on the remaining errors by PM as the book is print on demand and so as I understand it the text can still be amended for future editions.
That is disappointing @Sir Miles as I was considering purchasing this...
Proof reading is phenomenally difficult. As a favour I proofed an extended forward to a friend's fantasy novel and it took me two days to cover 19 pages, about half an hour to 45mins a page - and I wasn't having to link across chapters and subjects, only punctuation, spelling, layout, story development, prose style, tone. There are professionals out there, and this kind of book I feel would require a specialist pro, not just beta reader enthusiasts and colleagues [no offence, @Silhouette Man, I am assuming you are not a professional proof reader, if you are, my bad].
Yes, proof reading isn't the easiest of tasks but it's a necessary evil. I'm in no way a professional proof reader or even writer but I have had experience over the years writing and editing my own academic work in History, English and Law and with my own Bond articles. It never seemed to matter how many drafts something went through; you always spotted a new mistake or something you felt like rewording. Of course I'm not trained as a proof reader and so am very much an amateur and so I'm sure I miss plenty of things too. I tried to pick out as many little grammatical or factual errors as I could using Track Changes and also offered some suggestions for small additions as I saw fit. As you say it's very slow work and I'm not the quickest to start with. With other people doing the same it should root out most of the errors but sadly some may still remain.
Please don’t let these little niggles put you off…I very much enjoyed reading it and it’s definitely worth adding to anyone’s collection…it’s a great reference book 🍸
When my copy arrived I opened it and spotted several mistakes in the first 5 minutes, but since then honestly I think I've just been carried by the many strengths of the book. If there are further errors, I've ceased to notice them.
Have just listened and enjoyed, thanks guys. And thanks for the shout-out to AJB007!