I think they have to move beyond the referential palette of "serious Craig" "campy Moore" "suave Brosnan" - the new fella has to have his own flavor and the franchise has to stop eating its own tail.
Within that edict, I do think the franchise is in trouble if they don't pivot to a lighter tone. You could feel Craig brushing up against it - the reaction to the Komodo dragons, parachuting onto the Rome street, and tell me you can't hear Moore saying "happy birthday, by the way" to Blofeld - they just need to get better at organically incorporating it into the tone.
Some of the comics have been really good. VARGR and EIDOLON come to mind. VARGR could be a good 'first film' for a new Bond, although that title would probably need to be changed to something more Bondy.
No origins or reboots please, just Bond in Ms office given a mission and off we go. No introductions and acknowledgements for a new actor, just normal service resumed after Craig’s self contained “quintology”, if that’s the right word. I’ve made no secret that I wasn’t a fan of Craig’s films, they lost their way badly after Casino Royale, so a lighter escapist Bond is just what we need now in my opinion.
Alas, I fear Craig’s tenure means that the Bond “series” that we all grew up with is no more. We’ll likely get a few films that constitute an arc of sorts, before an another new actor takes over and this cycle continues, along the lines of Nolan’s Batman movies. I really hope not, but that’s how I see it.
Hopefully the producers also don’t give the new actor the same level of control and influence they did Craig, otherwise we might have to get used to Bond kicking the bucket every few films.
My view on ATJ? I’ve not seen him in anything I didn’t like, certainly looks more the part than Craig, but part of me still can’t get beyond him looking too young, maybe because I’m getting too old though…
Japanese proverb say, "Bird never make nest in bare tree".
I don't think Craig opened the door to Bond kicking the bucket at the end of the tenure of each new iteration. First, it would destroy the concept. Where is the beauty when you know the death of the character has become a pattern ? Second, it would have some Looney Tunes effect which doesn't match with the universe. The producers are aware of that. Craig did something unique he wanted the audience to appreciate for what it means. Don't underestimate the ego. Would the man who "killed Bond" tolerate the next guy to reproduce what has been created before ? I'm not sure at all...
I'm saying...nothing. Just sharing a personal feeling. What I think can be true or false, no matter actually. I'm afraid you simply misunderstood my comment. I never claimed to know what they have in mind (to be honest, I'm not interested in it).
But considering what both of themexplained just after the release of NTTD and especially the way they wanted such a concept to be received, I wouldn't bet my shirt on it becoming a pattern.
Craig did something unique he wanted the audience to appreciate for what it means. Don't underestimate the ego.
I never claimed to know what they have in mind
I find it tricky to square these two statements with each other. I still have no idea what "Would the man who "killed Bond" tolerate the next guy to reproduce what has been created before ?" means.
Again, it's only the way I see things considering various elements since the release of NTTD. I can be wrong of course, and the future will provide the answer.
Focusing on the primary meaning of certain words or expressions is not always the best means to get the global idea. I thought the way I started my sentence ('I think') was enough to make understand this whole comment was not a statement, nothing more. Apparently it didn't have the proper effect. Sorry for that...
I don't think we'll see Bond dying again. Honestly, I think we'll have a hard reboot of the series with 'the new guy' (Bond7) and he'll be the Sean Connery of Bond version 3.0. Everyone else following Bond7 will be of this new continuity ala the Connery->Brosnan run of films. Craig's version 2.0 will be a self contained anomoly.
I'll leave it to the statisticians, and certainly we can bend the numbers in one direction or another, but:
1962 - 2022 = 60 years; 2006 - 2021 = 15 years.
(And if one wanted to put one's thumb on the scale, he's technically still the incumbent until they announce someone else, so it's been 18 years with Craig as the Bond of record...)
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
Agree with all of this. The self-referential stuff that began, in earnest, with DAD needs to end. It weighed down the later Craig films in particular. Also, Craig couldn’t play camp, which is why those bits always felt so forced in his films, not to mention tonally out of step.
Speaking of tone, a film along the lines of FYEO, TLD, or Goldeneye would work in any era, with virtually any audience. There is a timelessness about those films. And while Moore, Dalton, and Brosnan each played a very different Bond, they all had enough range to make those films work. For all of the fawning over Craig’s acting abilities, he played a very one-note Bond, unlike all of his predecessors.
Okay, I won't say that I think he played it well: he did play it well and didn't feel forced at all. And Dalton's Bond was the one-note one, not Craig.
It just gets my back up when I come onto a website about a thing we're all supposed to be here because we like and being told that it's bad, and having it explained to me why it's bad (because the lead actor can't do this or that), despite the fact that we haven't actually agreed that they're bad in that sense at all. I'm also in a bad mood because I've put my back out 😄
It would just be nice that folks were more mindful that this is a fansite for Bond, and when you come on and state, in the language of fact rather than opinion, that the thing you know others are here because they like it, is bad, it's just not very gracious. I'm sure I'm guilty of it from time to time, but I try not to be.
Is this the pot and kettle thing, or about glass houses? ”I'm sure I'm guilty of it from time to time, but I try not to be.” Well that’s just precious coming from you. Your posts esp. in the Craig debate have been consistently opinionated as if they were incontrovertible fact, and intolerant and demeaning of opposing views.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
We'll always have different opinions about the films, actors, music, etc. etc. That's what makes it fun and diverse. Nobody is wrong. What you like is what you like. What you're less keen on or think doesn't work, is just how you feel about it. As long as we're all respectful of others feelings and opinions, then we can debate until the cows come home 😊
Sorry about your back. I suffer from that as well, from time to time. Hope you come around soon.
On the other point, the view that Craig didn’t play humor well, while perhaps not a “fact”, is a view shared by many. And is far different than saying Craig was a terrible Bond and all of his films were rubbish. Far from it. Craig did plenty well. But I was responding to a particular comment from another member about tone, so the critique seemed relevant.
Fans criticizing the thing they love is an ancient art. And we do specialize in it here, although I think we are more constructive than most.
The character did. The franchise (as in "total history of the franchise," in which "film franchise" was implied, sorry if that was unclear)? Not sure Eon would agree.
But yes, I meant the film franchise.
Sorry to hear about your back, emtiem, but you're still right! 😛
Comments
I think they have to move beyond the referential palette of "serious Craig" "campy Moore" "suave Brosnan" - the new fella has to have his own flavor and the franchise has to stop eating its own tail.
Within that edict, I do think the franchise is in trouble if they don't pivot to a lighter tone. You could feel Craig brushing up against it - the reaction to the Komodo dragons, parachuting onto the Rome street, and tell me you can't hear Moore saying "happy birthday, by the way" to Blofeld - they just need to get better at organically incorporating it into the tone.
And obviously the Daily Mail article is trash.
Some of the comics have been really good. VARGR and EIDOLON come to mind. VARGR could be a good 'first film' for a new Bond, although that title would probably need to be changed to something more Bondy.
No origins or reboots please, just Bond in Ms office given a mission and off we go. No introductions and acknowledgements for a new actor, just normal service resumed after Craig’s self contained “quintology”, if that’s the right word. I’ve made no secret that I wasn’t a fan of Craig’s films, they lost their way badly after Casino Royale, so a lighter escapist Bond is just what we need now in my opinion.
Alas, I fear Craig’s tenure means that the Bond “series” that we all grew up with is no more. We’ll likely get a few films that constitute an arc of sorts, before an another new actor takes over and this cycle continues, along the lines of Nolan’s Batman movies. I really hope not, but that’s how I see it.
Hopefully the producers also don’t give the new actor the same level of control and influence they did Craig, otherwise we might have to get used to Bond kicking the bucket every few films.
My view on ATJ? I’ve not seen him in anything I didn’t like, certainly looks more the part than Craig, but part of me still can’t get beyond him looking too young, maybe because I’m getting too old though…
I don't think Craig opened the door to Bond kicking the bucket at the end of the tenure of each new iteration. First, it would destroy the concept. Where is the beauty when you know the death of the character has become a pattern ? Second, it would have some Looney Tunes effect which doesn't match with the universe. The producers are aware of that. Craig did something unique he wanted the audience to appreciate for what it means. Don't underestimate the ego. Would the man who "killed Bond" tolerate the next guy to reproduce what has been created before ? I'm not sure at all...
What are you saying he would do about it if he wouldn’t ‘tolerate’ it?
I love how so many people know exactly what’s going on inside Broccoli and Craig’s heads, and how they always act from the worst possible motivations.
I'm saying...nothing. Just sharing a personal feeling. What I think can be true or false, no matter actually. I'm afraid you simply misunderstood my comment. I never claimed to know what they have in mind (to be honest, I'm not interested in it).
But considering what both of them explained just after the release of NTTD and especially the way they wanted such a concept to be received, I wouldn't bet my shirt on it becoming a pattern.
er...what's not comfortable and fun about riding a cello across a border and shouting you have nothing to declare?! 😁
Craig did something unique he wanted the audience to appreciate for what it means. Don't underestimate the ego.
I never claimed to know what they have in mind
I find it tricky to square these two statements with each other. I still have no idea what "Would the man who "killed Bond" tolerate the next guy to reproduce what has been created before ?" means.
Again, it's only the way I see things considering various elements since the release of NTTD. I can be wrong of course, and the future will provide the answer.
Focusing on the primary meaning of certain words or expressions is not always the best means to get the global idea. I thought the way I started my sentence ('I think') was enough to make understand this whole comment was not a statement, nothing more. Apparently it didn't have the proper effect. Sorry for that...
I don't think we'll see Bond dying again. Honestly, I think we'll have a hard reboot of the series with 'the new guy' (Bond7) and he'll be the Sean Connery of Bond version 3.0. Everyone else following Bond7 will be of this new continuity ala the Connery->Brosnan run of films. Craig's version 2.0 will be a self contained anomoly.
Anomaly is a weird way to describe a run that spans, at present, 25% of the franchise's total history... 😂
oh hush.
😉
Total history? Less than 20% of that.
I'll leave it to the statisticians, and certainly we can bend the numbers in one direction or another, but:
1962 - 2022 = 60 years; 2006 - 2021 = 15 years.
(And if one wanted to put one's thumb on the scale, he's technically still the incumbent until they announce someone else, so it's been 18 years with Craig as the Bond of record...)
True as far as it goes, but you did say total history, and that began in 1953.
🤣
Agree with all of this. The self-referential stuff that began, in earnest, with DAD needs to end. It weighed down the later Craig films in particular. Also, Craig couldn’t play camp, which is why those bits always felt so forced in his films, not to mention tonally out of step.
Speaking of tone, a film along the lines of FYEO, TLD, or Goldeneye would work in any era, with virtually any audience. There is a timelessness about those films. And while Moore, Dalton, and Brosnan each played a very different Bond, they all had enough range to make those films work. For all of the fawning over Craig’s acting abilities, he played a very one-note Bond, unlike all of his predecessors.
This is your opinion rather than fact: I think he played the comedy stuff very effectively.
Thank you for the completely unnecessary clarification. Yes, we offer subjective opinions here about the Bond actors’ performances.
Okay, I won't say that I think he played it well: he did play it well and didn't feel forced at all. And Dalton's Bond was the one-note one, not Craig.
It just gets my back up when I come onto a website about a thing we're all supposed to be here because we like and being told that it's bad, and having it explained to me why it's bad (because the lead actor can't do this or that), despite the fact that we haven't actually agreed that they're bad in that sense at all. I'm also in a bad mood because I've put my back out 😄
It would just be nice that folks were more mindful that this is a fansite for Bond, and when you come on and state, in the language of fact rather than opinion, that the thing you know others are here because they like it, is bad, it's just not very gracious. I'm sure I'm guilty of it from time to time, but I try not to be.
Can we have him back?
Is this the pot and kettle thing, or about glass houses? ”I'm sure I'm guilty of it from time to time, but I try not to be.” Well that’s just precious coming from you. Your posts esp. in the Craig debate have been consistently opinionated as if they were incontrovertible fact, and intolerant and demeaning of opposing views.
I apologise then if they have.
Olive branch accepted, that’s very nice of you.
We'll always have different opinions about the films, actors, music, etc. etc. That's what makes it fun and diverse. Nobody is wrong. What you like is what you like. What you're less keen on or think doesn't work, is just how you feel about it. As long as we're all respectful of others feelings and opinions, then we can debate until the cows come home 😊
No. We can't and he won't.
Sorry about your back. I suffer from that as well, from time to time. Hope you come around soon.
On the other point, the view that Craig didn’t play humor well, while perhaps not a “fact”, is a view shared by many. And is far different than saying Craig was a terrible Bond and all of his films were rubbish. Far from it. Craig did plenty well. But I was responding to a particular comment from another member about tone, so the critique seemed relevant.
Fans criticizing the thing they love is an ancient art. And we do specialize in it here, although I think we are more constructive than most.
The character did. The franchise (as in "total history of the franchise," in which "film franchise" was implied, sorry if that was unclear)? Not sure Eon would agree.
But yes, I meant the film franchise.
Sorry to hear about your back, emtiem, but you're still right! 😛