Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,871MI6 Agent
What this crisis in Europe caused by the Ukraine War has highlighted is how dependent Europe had become on Russian oil and gas supplies and how a war could lead to these supplies being cut. This situation should never have arisen but happily Germany is now turning over more of its resources to supplying energy for Europe instead. Western Europe needs to try to provide its own energy sources and cut Russia out of the equation. Thankfully this is now happening.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
It’s always difficult to stay away from political debate…we all know how those threads end…badly 🫣 It’s even more delicate due to several countries having general elections for various reasons 👀
It’s not really the posting of articles such as the one you did…I read the entire piece, even Farage tied himself in knots trying to make ‘his’ point whilst trying to back out at the same time. And your post WAS on topic…again, I think most people will agree that Farage got this badly wrong - perhaps he’s even sabotaged his own party’s standing with those comments…? 🤷🏻♂️
It would be lovely if we could respect everyone’s opinions and realise that we can agree to disagree…🙂
I think this thread works if members stay away from party politics. One can talk about the impact in Ukraine of the delayed US support package earlier this year, but it goes wrong if we go into what party supported it and who voted against it.
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,871MI6 Agent
Yes, as long as we stick to the facts and not politics and personalities we should be OK. Keeping things general and not specific is for the best.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,871MI6 Agent
It's the first time since WWII another country has invaded Russia. Putin's plan to make Russia an empire again and make sure It's safe from any attack is going great! 👍
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,871MI6 Agent
edited August 19
At least this time the invasion of Russia is justified as this time they're the aggressors. I've heard that Ukraine wants Kursk because that's where the drones are coming from. There's also a plan to invade Kursk to draw Russian troops away from other places and relieve Ukrainian troops there. I hope it works and helps bring the end of this awful war closer.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
They could also do a like for like swap: you give us back what you took and we will return what we took. Hence uneasy peace restored and all back to how it was, minus thousands if people killed, millions displaced and billions of currency wasted.
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,871MI6 Agent
Yes, it could be a kind of bargaining chip too. It certainly brings the effects of the war home to the Russians and weakens Putin's hand somewhat. Of course he'll spin it as being a victory of sorts by showing he was right all along - exposing the "aggressor" Ukraine.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
- It's another of Putin's red lines that turn out not to be red lines.
- It's a moral boost for Ukrainas (and donor countries)
- It forces Russia to have a lot of troops on the whole border to Ukraine, troops that can't be used inside Ukraine anymore.
- It takes away some of Putin's credibility among Russians.
A bonus:
The largest tank battle ever happened the Kursk region in WWII. The second world war is incredibly important in Russian culture and mindset. They lost 20 million people in that war, after all. So getting attacked there HURTS.
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,871MI6 Agent
Very well put, @Number24. I agree on all of that. The Ukrainian incursion into Russian territory certainly breaks down some of the myths and hubris that Putin's Russia is built on. It's plain for all to see, most especially the Russian citizens.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
My main fear is that Putin will feel compelled to go nuclear. 'If I can't win, nobody can win.' A man in his position can't show any sort of weakness and anything less than total victory will weaken his already shaky position. On top of this, Russia is on the verge of economic collapse and even China isn't supporting it financially anymore. If Putin decides to burn it all...
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,871MI6 Agent
edited August 20
Yes, the nuclear option is always a fear too. Especially the more desperate the Russian leadership gets. One could say that Putin wouldn't be mad enough to go nuclear but then we thought he wasn't mad enough to invade Ukraine in the first place and then he did just that. Of course he has threatened the West before with nuclear attack but whether this is merely sabre-rattling or something more significant it's hard to say. Again, it's a bargaining chip and constant threat that keeps NATO out of overt involvement in the war in Ukraine. However, hopefully the inevitable result of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) would stave off any nuclear attack by Russia just as it did in the Cold War era.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
I think if Putin has been told that if he uses tactical nukes there will be very serious consequences. My guesses are China will stop supporting them in any way, Russia will face North Korea-level sanctions, Ukraine's supporters will give them anything they want short of nukes and almost all restrictions on use of western weapons will be lifted.
Funding, yes. But they’re still trading with Russia and China hasn't opposed Putin in the UN. I think we'll see that if Putin ever imuses any type of nukes. Same with India.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,934Chief of Staff
That is pretty much what I think…and hope…that Putin will probably threaten the use of nukes - probably without specifically mentioning them - just to get the US to try and hold Ukraine back….I still think it’s an outrage that the West haven’t done more to help Ukraine…but, again, that’s probably to try and keep this war to only using conventional weapons…
Putin really has done this to himself…it’s the ‘ordinary’ Russians that have to suffer the consequences…
I dread to think what happens IF Trump is elected…his comments a week or so ago on his conversation with Putin about the war were truly cringing….
Apologies all round - I really don’t want this thread to get political…but these were comments by Trump on the war in Ukraine.
Putin started making more or less vielded threaths about nukes since the west started sending weapons to Ukraine. Medvedev has been making threaths very often, it pretty much "Medvedev threathened nukes today, it must be Thursday".
So far it looks like Russia is pullung troops from the border to NATO to the fighting in Kursk. Some troops from the Northern Fleet are being moved. Only about 20% of the troops on the border to NATO are left already, in spite of Russia's propaganda that they fear an invasion from the West. Ukraine had hoped Russia pulled troops from Donbass.
Comments
What this crisis in Europe caused by the Ukraine War has highlighted is how dependent Europe had become on Russian oil and gas supplies and how a war could lead to these supplies being cut. This situation should never have arisen but happily Germany is now turning over more of its resources to supplying energy for Europe instead. Western Europe needs to try to provide its own energy sources and cut Russia out of the equation. Thankfully this is now happening.
True, and I was impressed by how fast Europe became independent of Russian energy.
Yes, it just needed the will in place to do it. Thankfully necessity is the mother of invention.
Nigel Farage controversially blames the West for the Ukraine War due to the expansion of NATO:
Please keep in mind that this isn't a political thread. Discussion of Farage's views on this war are clearly relevant but that's as far as it goes.
That's fair enough. I'll refrain from posting anything like that again.
It’s always difficult to stay away from political debate…we all know how those threads end…badly 🫣 It’s even more delicate due to several countries having general elections for various reasons 👀
It’s not really the posting of articles such as the one you did…I read the entire piece, even Farage tied himself in knots trying to make ‘his’ point whilst trying to back out at the same time. And your post WAS on topic…again, I think most people will agree that Farage got this badly wrong - perhaps he’s even sabotaged his own party’s standing with those comments…? 🤷🏻♂️
It would be lovely if we could respect everyone’s opinions and realise that we can agree to disagree…🙂
I think this thread works if members stay away from party politics. One can talk about the impact in Ukraine of the delayed US support package earlier this year, but it goes wrong if we go into what party supported it and who voted against it.
Yes, as long as we stick to the facts and not politics and personalities we should be OK. Keeping things general and not specific is for the best.
Ukraine takes the war to Russia:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/how-russia-looked-wrong-way-ukraine-invaded-2024-08-17/
It's the first time since WWII another country has invaded Russia. Putin's plan to make Russia an empire again and make sure It's safe from any attack is going great! 👍
At least this time the invasion of Russia is justified as this time they're the aggressors. I've heard that Ukraine wants Kursk because that's where the drones are coming from. There's also a plan to invade Kursk to draw Russian troops away from other places and relieve Ukrainian troops there. I hope it works and helps bring the end of this awful war closer.
They could also do a like for like swap: you give us back what you took and we will return what we took. Hence uneasy peace restored and all back to how it was, minus thousands if people killed, millions displaced and billions of currency wasted.
Yes, it could be a kind of bargaining chip too. It certainly brings the effects of the war home to the Russians and weakens Putin's hand somewhat. Of course he'll spin it as being a victory of sorts by showing he was right all along - exposing the "aggressor" Ukraine.
There are more reasons:
- It's another of Putin's red lines that turn out not to be red lines.
- It's a moral boost for Ukrainas (and donor countries)
- It forces Russia to have a lot of troops on the whole border to Ukraine, troops that can't be used inside Ukraine anymore.
- It takes away some of Putin's credibility among Russians.
A bonus:
The largest tank battle ever happened the Kursk region in WWII. The second world war is incredibly important in Russian culture and mindset. They lost 20 million people in that war, after all. So getting attacked there HURTS.
Very well put, @Number24. I agree on all of that. The Ukrainian incursion into Russian territory certainly breaks down some of the myths and hubris that Putin's Russia is built on. It's plain for all to see, most especially the Russian citizens.
My main fear is that Putin will feel compelled to go nuclear. 'If I can't win, nobody can win.' A man in his position can't show any sort of weakness and anything less than total victory will weaken his already shaky position. On top of this, Russia is on the verge of economic collapse and even China isn't supporting it financially anymore. If Putin decides to burn it all...
I don't think Putin will do that. Anders Puck Nielsen covers the war very well. Short, to the point videos on the important issues.
Yes, the nuclear option is always a fear too. Especially the more desperate the Russian leadership gets. One could say that Putin wouldn't be mad enough to go nuclear but then we thought he wasn't mad enough to invade Ukraine in the first place and then he did just that. Of course he has threatened the West before with nuclear attack but whether this is merely sabre-rattling or something more significant it's hard to say. Again, it's a bargaining chip and constant threat that keeps NATO out of overt involvement in the war in Ukraine. However, hopefully the inevitable result of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) would stave off any nuclear attack by Russia just as it did in the Cold War era.
I think if Putin has been told that if he uses tactical nukes there will be very serious consequences. My guesses are China will stop supporting them in any way, Russia will face North Korea-level sanctions, Ukraine's supporters will give them anything they want short of nukes and almost all restrictions on use of western weapons will be lifted.
China already yanked its funding.
Funding, yes. But they’re still trading with Russia and China hasn't opposed Putin in the UN. I think we'll see that if Putin ever imuses any type of nukes. Same with India.
That is pretty much what I think…and hope…that Putin will probably threaten the use of nukes - probably without specifically mentioning them - just to get the US to try and hold Ukraine back….I still think it’s an outrage that the West haven’t done more to help Ukraine…but, again, that’s probably to try and keep this war to only using conventional weapons…
Putin really has done this to himself…it’s the ‘ordinary’ Russians that have to suffer the consequences…
I dread to think what happens IF Trump is elected…his comments a week or so ago on his conversation with Putin about the war were truly cringing….
Apologies all round - I really don’t want this thread to get political…but these were comments by Trump on the war in Ukraine.
Putin started making more or less vielded threaths about nukes since the west started sending weapons to Ukraine. Medvedev has been making threaths very often, it pretty much "Medvedev threathened nukes today, it must be Thursday".
It's hard not to mention Trump when it comes to Ukraine. I'm pretty sure who the Ukranians hope will win the election ....
So far it looks like Russia is pullung troops from the border to NATO to the fighting in Kursk. Some troops from the Northern Fleet are being moved. Only about 20% of the troops on the border to NATO are left already, in spite of Russia's propaganda that they fear an invasion from the West. Ukraine had hoped Russia pulled troops from Donbass.
Harris is on track to win.
Time will tell, but let's not continue on this topic in this thread.