I think with Dr. Christmas Jones the Bond team were trying to use some of Bond's extra poetic licensing. They realise that you can "bend" rules more easily in a Bond film. So they thought that they would try to do something completely politically incorrect. unfortunately i think that they pushed it a bit too far. They didn't eben have to explain anything about her, she just says, "it's a long story," and, "don't ask." Whats the point, and do we even care about this character? The Bond team tried it though, as was said by the ex R position, "arr the legendary 007 wit, or at least half of it!"
I liked the score. It was orginal and fit the times. Eric Serra did a nice job for what he had to be comapred to. But here are my thoughts:
John Altman and David Arch credited with the symphonic music, and Eric Serra (the one we all know and love) for the synthesiser tracks. Many critics slammed them for taking away from action sequence. I disagree. The impressive title song, Goldeneye was performed by Tina Turner and written by Bono and The Edge from U2 was one of the best songs in the series.
That is not to say TWINE's song was bad, I will have David Arnold score my movies any day. I would have to give it to TWINE in music though.
TWINE all the way baby, better character work, Brosnan's better in it, more time in it for Bond than GoldenEye and better music....the score to GE always brings it down for me and it has the better ending.....plus no Joe Don Baker...
Good point Rafter, I never liked Baker as Wade and him not appearing in TWINE is a good thing but I pick Goldeneye. Alec/Xenia team is superior to Elektra/Renard.
Renard was great in the beginning before it was realized he was only a stooge for Elektra.
well true Ryder, as a team they were superior, but IMO separately they are split. I think 006 slightly gets the edge over Renard, but Electra is better than Xenia. Here is my breakdown of the basics of the films:
Teaser: Well, I think I would give it to GoldenEye, I think TWINE should have had either the boat chase or the bomb and the bankers office, not both. TWINE's is still very enjoyable.
Titles: Well, I tried to like TWINE'S but, it just can't be good with girls covered in oil. So I am givng it to GoldenEye
Song/Music: I think Im am giving this one to TWINE. It is not to say I did not like the GoldenEye score, its just IMO David Arnold is the best composer since John Barry.
Women: Well comparing Natayla to Christmas, IMO Natalya eaisly gets it, but Ms. Jones is incredibly hot. I think I will quote Blofeld on Tiffany Case " Such nice cheeks too, if only they were brains."
Femme Fatale: This one I would have to give to Electra. She was better devolped and did not seem like a henchman.
Villian: Well, this one is given to 006. Renard would have been the best, but once he was just another pawn in Electra's game, it went down hill.
Plot/Story: This one I am going to give a slight edge to TWINE on. While both plots were good, I like TWINE's story better for two reasons, it was a much more intense drama, something that GoldenEye only hinted at, and the cliamax of the whole plan was not as bad. GoldenEye is awsome, first 006 has himself "killed", the the chopper is stolen, then the satelitte, then Bond is framed and sent to the Russians. There is some serious crap going on until you find out what all this excitement was for, to robb a bank.
Action: Oh this is a tough call, both GoldenEye and TWINE had great action. Well, in the end I think this one goes to GoldenEye, just becuase the big finale fight is my favourite - 007 vs 006!!!!
Dialouge: This one goes to TWINE. There were some intense scenes in GE, 006's death at Arkangel, the interrogation, stealing the GE, and on the beach. But TWINE had that great passion throughout the whole story. So I give the egde to TWINE here.
Bond: well. I don't know. Brosnan IMO has always given a kick a#s performance as 007. The only thing I did not like about him in GE, was his hair, oh before Bond went on his missson to meet Wade in Russia, it was so annoying. I do like the revenge aspect that Brosnan put into GE and showing the irony of it all. But in TWINE, Bond is used as a pawn in a game, he his emotionally attached, and his feelings are used against him, that was cool too! But in the end I think I would have to say his best perfomance was in TWINE.
Allright the scores:
GoldenEye 5
TWINE: 5
oh how un cool is this!
But here is my tie breaker:
Brosnan's kind of Bond was perfected in TWINE. So, despite it being VERY well introduced in GoldenEye, TWINE gest it in "overtime."
Goldeneye. The characters seem better and the film is more interesting. The score sort of sucks, but I just like the feel of the film better than TWINE.
If you prefer a more traditional Bond film,then GoldenEye is the movie for you.It's original enough but still recalls the many Bond movies of the past(Xenia's similar to Thunderball's Fiona Volpe',the Astin-Martin DB5 from Goldfinger and Thunderball has a cameo,there's a casino scene,etc.).
Wheras if you're looking for the same formula with a minor twist in the plot,then The World is Not Enough is probably your film.The Bond of TWINE is more world-weary and Brosnan's portrayal is more assured.The members of the supporting cast--as with all the Brosnan Bonds--is variable:good excellent and terrible.Stunts are terrific and the leading lady is memorable.Plus there's the pseudo John Barry score by David Arnold.
WG, interesting that you brought up the variable talent of supporting cast. I have to say with the exception of Denise Richards the cast of TWINE is uniformally excellent. In fact with the notable exception of a couple of duds, (DR and to some extent TH) I'd have to say the Brosnan films are overall the best cast ones of the series filled with wonderful character actors and very good leading ladies, even the "one-off" girls have been quite good.
Red Grant there's one for you: Dr Warmflash beats the heck out of Caroline in GE. Neither is as memorable as the Danish Professor though.
Well I have my own tie breaker. The enjoyment aspect. TWINE is more of the 007 I like to see. Not to say I dont enjoy GoldenEye, becuase I do love all the Brosnan outings. But I think TWINE has that enjoyment fator and a higher Fleming Feel. I would rank Brosnans like this now:
1. The World is Not Enough
2. Die Another Day
3. GoldenEye
4. Tommorrow Never Dies
Quoting Red Grant:Well I have my own tie breaker. The enjoyment aspect. TWINE is more of the 007 I like to see. Not to say I dont enjoy GoldenEye, becuase I do love all the Brosnan outings. But I think TWINE has that enjoyment fator and a higher Fleming Feel. I would rank Brosnans like this now:
1. TWINE
2. DAD
3. GoldenEye
4. TND
Thats my final two cents
How can you possibly rank DAD when you haven't even seen it ?
well, I look at it this way. Judging by the three trailers, and all the spoilers I have read/seen, they would have to be completely wrong for me to not have it in second. Sure, there is always room for doubt and no spot on my list is really that safe. So I guess its ok that way.
Well, I can see your reasoning when looking at it from that viewpoint. But don't you think it is best to see any film in it entirety before passing judgement on it ?
Quoting 007online:Well, I can see your reasoning when looking at it from that viewpoint. But don't you think it is best to see any film in it entirety before passing judgement on it ?
Oh absoultely, thats why my list is ever changing. But this is what it would look like right now. It could and most likely will change.
Red... why I've had this strange feeling that you were going to start this topic again! )
Did it change again? Is it TWINE or GE?
Well, I'm glad to be back again. It is so nice to see you all !
well Anarchist its good to see you again as well. And it is GoldenEye you know when to take me seriously! But it is GoldenEye.
I think DAD is Brosnans best by a mile. GoldenEye edges over TWINE for a few reasons. One, while I do love TWINE, it lacks the proper Bondian elements to go along with its great Fleming Flair. And two, its overall feel is just not as strong as GoldenEye's. GoldenEye has the "Bonds greatest hits" package. (Just like DAD) everything that has ever made Bond great is put in this one, GE combines all the right elements, and does it with a Fleming flair...
GE is better because TWINE just got annyoing with that stupid idiot Richards. I mean I thought Tanya Roberts was an airhead, but EON sunk to an all new low with that moron Richards in TWINE. I just kept wanting Pierce to knock her out.
In my opinion brosnans greatest appearance is in Goldeneye.
The second best is in TWINE.
In TND and DAD, he tries everaything what is possible but he can not reach Connery and Moore in their most appearances
I really enjoyed TWINE, but I thought Denise Richards almost GF3'd it (i.e. an otherwise good movie destoyed by a horrible performance from a lead female.)
IMO, Goldeneye has a feel of total Bond, starting of with the car scene is exelent, then moving on to a little joke with Natalia and Boris who later on turns out to be a traitor, also you get some casino action in GE, GE shows Natalia fighting against Bond when they first meet which would be the real reaction rather than jumping into bed with him.
The bit before the title is also the best for a while, with it having 2 exelent stunts in it and a previous agent, I do feel that 006's part could have been explained more.
This for me is one of the few bond films for me that I could watch night after night and not get bored of.
TWINE on the other hand starts to bore me a little, I have got it on video and have only watched 3 times since I got it, I only got GE a few weeks ago and have watched it countless amounts of times. TWINE has a great begining, then things start to deteriarate throught then the submarine has no real action sequence in it and a very bad ending makes it a quite bad bond film never mind better then GE, It is deffinately not in my top 5 bonds, and GE is.
The World is Not Enough is HORRIBLE. I find myself looking at my watch everytime I see that movie. It is so overrated. IT IS A BLOATED BORE! I give it credit, it does have the best opening scene in all the Bond movies but after that it justs SUCKS!
I think TWINE and DAD were outstanding opposites, and GE was OK, and it goes as a personal favorite not becasue of the movie, but because of how it reencarnated the Bodn series and for that I love it. The opposite is LTK, even thoigh I like that movie, I hate what it almost did.
Anyway, GE is very good, but it just isn't as good to watch as the other two. Pierce is a little too young, Izza is bundled up to whole movie, I am confused by Trevelyan, and other things.
Quoting jjmac:Red - might be time to put TWINE ahead of GE again!
LOL. While Thomas Jefferson did say something like " a little revolution now and then was a good thing" I think I have still made the best choice having GE edge TWINE.
By and large, these are typically rated the two best of Brosnan's era. And there is good reason for such close competition. Both have excellent performances from Pierce Brosnan, overall superb casts, memorable action scenes, great set piece, villains, and character development. GoldenEye defined Bond for a generation of fans, and The World Is Not Enough was one of the closest Bond films to Ian Flemings conception of Bond without being directly based on a book. Either way, I'm always left with a "complete" Bond experience when watching these films.
When I side with The World Is Not Enough, I do so for a few reasons. One, the score, GoldenEye's primary downfall, is one of the best in the series: lush, enhances the locations and reminiscent of John Barry. Pierce Brosnan, though quite Bond in both films perfects his interpretation of 007 in this film. His character experiences injury, emotional attachment, vengeance, and always surrounded by Bond's usual traits. Further, his relationship with Elektra is put at the center of the story, thus making his performance even more important and more successful. The Bond series also flirts with subtext in this relationship not previously seen, and it leads to what is, in my estimation, the best Bond performance. Surrounded by a stellar cast (Denise Richards is not comparable to the rest, but in a film with so much female involvement, its ok to have some eye candy) and great action scenes, The World Is Not Enough takes the cake.
Either way, these two rank as my two favorite Bond films.
i habe to say TWINE, mainly becuase Brosnans hair isnt all over the place for one and the film had a lot of emotinal depth to it, and i loved how the film ended with the bond theme
By and large, these are typically rated the two best of Brosnan's era. And there is good reason for such close competition. Both have excellent performances from Pierce Brosnan, overall superb casts, memorable action scenes, great set piece, villains, and character development. GoldenEye defined Bond for a generation of fans, and The World Is Not Enough was one of the closest Bond films to Ian Flemings conception of Bond without being directly based on a book. Either way, I'm always left with a "complete" Bond experience when watching these films.
When I side with The World Is Not Enough, I do so for a few reasons. One, the score, GoldenEye's primary downfall, is one of the best in the series: lush, enhances the locations and reminiscent of John Barry. Pierce Brosnan, though quite Bond in both films perfects his interpretation of 007 in this film. His character experiences injury, emotional attachment, vengeance, and always surrounded by Bond's usual traits. Further, his relationship with Elektra is put at the center of the story, thus making his performance even more important and more successful. The Bond series also flirts with subtext in this relationship not previously seen, and it leads to what is, in my estimation, the best Bond performance. Surrounded by a stellar cast (Denise Richards is not comparable to the rest, but in a film with so much female involvement, its ok to have some eye candy) and great action scenes, The World Is Not Enough takes the cake.
Either way, these two rank as my two favorite Bond films.
Good call.
I rank both films below the first two, the Dalton films, and OHMSS, but both were very good, and Pierce was excellent in both. I think some of the more OTT action sequences in both (the boat and caviar factory scenes in TWINE; the PTS in GE, for example) detract from it, but they're still two great films.
Comments
John Altman and David Arch credited with the symphonic music, and Eric Serra (the one we all know and love) for the synthesiser tracks. Many critics slammed them for taking away from action sequence. I disagree. The impressive title song, Goldeneye was performed by Tina Turner and written by Bono and The Edge from U2 was one of the best songs in the series.
That is not to say TWINE's song was bad, I will have David Arnold score my movies any day. I would have to give it to TWINE in music though.
Renard was great in the beginning before it was realized he was only a stooge for Elektra.
Teaser: Well, I think I would give it to GoldenEye, I think TWINE should have had either the boat chase or the bomb and the bankers office, not both. TWINE's is still very enjoyable.
Titles: Well, I tried to like TWINE'S but, it just can't be good with girls covered in oil. So I am givng it to GoldenEye
Song/Music: I think Im am giving this one to TWINE. It is not to say I did not like the GoldenEye score, its just IMO David Arnold is the best composer since John Barry.
Women: Well comparing Natayla to Christmas, IMO Natalya eaisly gets it, but Ms. Jones is incredibly hot. I think I will quote Blofeld on Tiffany Case " Such nice cheeks too, if only they were brains."
Femme Fatale: This one I would have to give to Electra. She was better devolped and did not seem like a henchman.
Villian: Well, this one is given to 006. Renard would have been the best, but once he was just another pawn in Electra's game, it went down hill.
Plot/Story: This one I am going to give a slight edge to TWINE on. While both plots were good, I like TWINE's story better for two reasons, it was a much more intense drama, something that GoldenEye only hinted at, and the cliamax of the whole plan was not as bad. GoldenEye is awsome, first 006 has himself "killed", the the chopper is stolen, then the satelitte, then Bond is framed and sent to the Russians. There is some serious crap going on until you find out what all this excitement was for, to robb a bank.
Action: Oh this is a tough call, both GoldenEye and TWINE had great action. Well, in the end I think this one goes to GoldenEye, just becuase the big finale fight is my favourite - 007 vs 006!!!!
Dialouge: This one goes to TWINE. There were some intense scenes in GE, 006's death at Arkangel, the interrogation, stealing the GE, and on the beach. But TWINE had that great passion throughout the whole story. So I give the egde to TWINE here.
Bond: well. I don't know. Brosnan IMO has always given a kick a#s performance as 007. The only thing I did not like about him in GE, was his hair, oh before Bond went on his missson to meet Wade in Russia, it was so annoying. I do like the revenge aspect that Brosnan put into GE and showing the irony of it all. But in TWINE, Bond is used as a pawn in a game, he his emotionally attached, and his feelings are used against him, that was cool too! But in the end I think I would have to say his best perfomance was in TWINE.
Allright the scores:
GoldenEye 5
TWINE: 5
oh how un cool is this!
But here is my tie breaker:
Brosnan's kind of Bond was perfected in TWINE. So, despite it being VERY well introduced in GoldenEye, TWINE gest it in "overtime."
Wheras if you're looking for the same formula with a minor twist in the plot,then The World is Not Enough is probably your film.The Bond of TWINE is more world-weary and Brosnan's portrayal is more assured.The members of the supporting cast--as with all the Brosnan Bonds--is variable:good excellent and terrible.Stunts are terrific and the leading lady is memorable.Plus there's the pseudo John Barry score by David Arnold.
I like both movies...
Red Grant there's one for you: Dr Warmflash beats the heck out of Caroline in GE. Neither is as memorable as the Danish Professor though.
MBE
1. The World is Not Enough
2. Die Another Day
3. GoldenEye
4. Tommorrow Never Dies
Thats my final two cents
How can you possibly rank DAD when you haven't even seen it ?
Oh absoultely, thats why my list is ever changing. But this is what it would look like right now. It could and most likely will change.
Did it change again? Is it TWINE or GE?
Well, I'm glad to be back again. It is so nice to see you all !
I think DAD is Brosnans best by a mile. GoldenEye edges over TWINE for a few reasons. One, while I do love TWINE, it lacks the proper Bondian elements to go along with its great Fleming Flair. And two, its overall feel is just not as strong as GoldenEye's. GoldenEye has the "Bonds greatest hits" package. (Just like DAD) everything that has ever made Bond great is put in this one, GE combines all the right elements, and does it with a Fleming flair...
1. DAD
2. GoldenEye
3. TWINE
The second best is in TWINE.
In TND and DAD, he tries everaything what is possible but he can not reach Connery and Moore in their most appearances
The bit before the title is also the best for a while, with it having 2 exelent stunts in it and a previous agent, I do feel that 006's part could have been explained more.
This for me is one of the few bond films for me that I could watch night after night and not get bored of.
TWINE on the other hand starts to bore me a little, I have got it on video and have only watched 3 times since I got it, I only got GE a few weeks ago and have watched it countless amounts of times. TWINE has a great begining, then things start to deteriarate throught then the submarine has no real action sequence in it and a very bad ending makes it a quite bad bond film never mind better then GE, It is deffinately not in my top 5 bonds, and GE is.
tied with
1. DAD
2. GE
I think TWINE and DAD were outstanding opposites, and GE was OK, and it goes as a personal favorite not becasue of the movie, but because of how it reencarnated the Bodn series and for that I love it. The opposite is LTK, even thoigh I like that movie, I hate what it almost did.
Anyway, GE is very good, but it just isn't as good to watch as the other two. Pierce is a little too young, Izza is bundled up to whole movie, I am confused by Trevelyan, and other things.
Hope you all like DAD as much as I did.
LOL. While Thomas Jefferson did say something like " a little revolution now and then was a good thing" I think I have still made the best choice having GE edge TWINE.
DAD will always top them both though...
When I side with The World Is Not Enough, I do so for a few reasons. One, the score, GoldenEye's primary downfall, is one of the best in the series: lush, enhances the locations and reminiscent of John Barry. Pierce Brosnan, though quite Bond in both films perfects his interpretation of 007 in this film. His character experiences injury, emotional attachment, vengeance, and always surrounded by Bond's usual traits. Further, his relationship with Elektra is put at the center of the story, thus making his performance even more important and more successful. The Bond series also flirts with subtext in this relationship not previously seen, and it leads to what is, in my estimation, the best Bond performance. Surrounded by a stellar cast (Denise Richards is not comparable to the rest, but in a film with so much female involvement, its ok to have some eye candy) and great action scenes, The World Is Not Enough takes the cake.
Either way, these two rank as my two favorite Bond films.
Good call.
I rank both films below the first two, the Dalton films, and OHMSS, but both were very good, and Pierce was excellent in both. I think some of the more OTT action sequences in both (the boat and caviar factory scenes in TWINE; the PTS in GE, for example) detract from it, but they're still two great films.