Breivik was given the formal maximum prison time, 21 years. But he can (and will) be kept locked up for as long as he is considered a threath. I would like him and others like him to be given the true life in prison, where he would be guaranteed to die in prison unless new evidence (teoretical in his case) emerges. Repeat offenders should serve for their crimes, and unwillingness to reform should result in longer prison terms.
Pedophiles are a difficult problem. Protecting children is extremly important, but so is human rights.
Reactions to their crimes should be harsh, but a decent into barbarism is not the answer. They should be watched closely, but they are in some ways comparable alcoholics: some can stop acting on their unges, but they're never stop having the urges.
Paedophiles have no human rights whatsoever. A quick death should apply to all cases.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
I do support a tiered prison system, and that's the system in Norway. I have to ask you: do you really belive that I and other "liberals" just want to reform mass murderers a couple of years and release them to be paid by society to walk amming us? If the answer is yes , I would strongly urge you to broaden your media input and be more critical of left-of-center media.
As to Breivik: I don't think it's the role of the state to kill prisoners. I find it strange that people who otherwise are against a state with a lot of power support giving the state this enormous power. Couldn't this power be used politically? Life in prison not only has the advantages of being revokable if proven innocent or a victim of a political ruling, I also think it's a harder sentence. Death is so final, life is long.
I only use the term liberal as you've used it before to describe your view. Actually critical of all political based media, and I am biased in no particular direction when it comes to subjects like this, I use my own extensive experience. It seems to me the division of opinion falls largely between those who have suffered at the hands of criminals who feel punishments do not fit the crime and those with limited exposure to crime who would like more emphasis on reforming prisoners. I worked on a case based around sexual mistreatment of underage girls, vulnerable girls and occasionally young boys, the men responsible mostly have been judged by a court of law. Being privy to some case files I personally would have shot these bastards in the balls and left them to bleed out.
I think there is a world of difference between a sparsely populated country and countries with large populations. Norway's total population is about half of London, New York and many other cities. I don't know because I have never been to Norway but is it that most areas are small communities where returning criminals feel shame because most people know each other?
Here in The Philippines the new president has instructed a zero tolerance policy reference drug dealers. Hundreds and thousands of drug dealers have been shot dead or incarcerated. Thousands of drug addicts have surrendered for drug rehabilitation programmes. I volunteer in a help center and can testify that things are a whole lot better with these stringent laws in place.
I think that New York had a zero tolerance policy in the 80's and things improved immeasurably.
It's unlikely that any system will be 100% effective everywhere throughout the world but I still maintain that making things uncomfortable for criminals is better than the kid glove treatment.
First of all: the zero tolerance policy against drugs in the Philipines is very much about murdering drug users. Death squads and police go around killing poor drug addicts and barely anything gets investigated.
You are on to something about the low crime rate here in Norway. It's always possibeleto move somewhere nobody knows you after a prison sentence, if you want to. But part of the reason for the low crime rate is a high level of trust in society and among people.
Close social networks also paly a part. There is also a factor in how the prison system works. Since there is no death penalty and (in theory) no life sentence, we know the prisoners will return to society. Because of this, reabilitation to society is a very important
part of the prison system.
N24 - your understanding of the fight against drugs here is misinformed. The zero tolerance here is against drug pushers not users. It's the pushers who are being killed and good riddance to them. Drug users are being sent on rehabilitation programmes (if they want to) and there are tens of thousands already in the system being or awaiting treatment. Many people in authority, police and politicians for example have been arrested for protecting drug pushers. In the past these scum have been given free reign to peddle their filth with impunity knowing they have the protection of the law. No longer is this the case, in just a few short months the drug trade has dwindled substantially. It may not be pretty but it's been damn well effective and the President is being hailed a hero by decent families throughout the islands.
The targeted killings of drug users on a massive scale in the Philipines is well documented. Here is a report from Amnesty International. Take note of this quote: He (Duerte) has actively encouraged the killing of drug addicts themselves, ....
And that's just US , take Norway for example (brief translation) :
"Every year food for tens of billions of krones is thrown away in Norway. Much of this food is completely safe to eat, and there is something seriously wrong when tons of food is wasted.
Now we need to put in place a ban here in Norway"
"The proposal comes after a new law came into force in France last week where is it now illegal for supermarket chains to throw food while it is still edible.
"We want to do like in France and fine grocery stores that throw edible food. The most important thing for us is that food that is fully edible should not go to waste and a ban on throwing food should help supermarkets in a big way and politicians realize the seriousness"
"Many supermarket chains have even initiated good arrangements to reduce waste but it's still too much food being thrown , 130,000 tons edible food.
"We know, moreover, that 10% of greenhouse gas emissions from the wealthy part of the world is due to food waste"
"There are simply a lot of good arguments to expedite this work"
"361 000 tons edible food was thrown in Norway in 2013"
I once met a young man who enjoys going to remote Arctic areas, build huts from driftwood and surf on the beaches .
He hardly ever bought food. Instead he asked the shops for food past its sell-by date or picked it out of the garbage containers.
The man could tell me the food was perfectly fine if it smelled OK. Some types of food, such as beef, actually tastes better after it's supposed to be thrown away. Food for thought :v
I do support a tiered prison system, and that's the system in Norway. I have to ask you: do you really belive that I and other "liberals" just want to reform mass murderers a couple of years and release them to be paid by society to walk amming us? If the answer is yes , I would strongly urge you to broaden your media input and be more critical of left-of-center media.
As to Breivik: I don't think it's the role of the state to kill prisoners. I find it strange that people who otherwise are against a state with a lot of power support giving the state this enormous power. Couldn't this power be used politically? Life in prison not only has the advantages of being revokable if proven innocent or a victim of a political ruling, I also think it's a harder sentence. Death is so final, life is long.
I only use the term liberal as you've used it before to describe your view. Actually critical of all political based media, and I am biased in no particular direction when it comes to subjects like this, I use my own extensive experience. It seems to me the division of opinion falls largely between those who have suffered at the hands of criminals who feel punishments do not fit the crime and those with limited exposure to crime who would like more emphasis on reforming prisoners. I worked on a case based around sexual mistreatment of underage girls, vulnerable girls and occasionally young boys, the men responsible mostly have been judged by a court of law. Being privy to some case files I personally would have shot these bastards in the balls and left them to bleed out.
The reason I asked was that you seemed to belive I might want Breivik and his kind to have a quick reform program of a couple of years and then be let out into society, just to live a life of ease on the government's expense. Did you really suspect that? )
If you did, it's not a long leap to suspect you drank the cool-aid of the right-wing media.
Your theory about the different views on the penal system based on if you are a crime victim or not, is at best simplistic.
I can of cource see that many crime victims would wish a very tough punishment on the crimninals, but it's not that simple. Many who have never been the victim of a serious crime favour the death penalty, while some victims don't. I know several survivors of the Utøya attacks and the families of some of the people killed there were glad Breivik got a fair trial and the principles of rule of law were not thrown overboard.
First of all: the zero tolerance policy against drugs in the Philipines is very much about murdering drug users. Death squads and police go around killing poor drug addicts and barely anything gets investigated.
You are on to something about the low crime rate here in Norway. It's always possibeleto move somewhere nobody knows you after a prison sentence, if you want to. But part of the reason for the low crime rate is a high level of trust in society and among people.
Close social networks also paly a part. There is also a factor in how the prison system works. Since there is no death penalty and (in theory) no life sentence, we know the prisoners will return to society. Because of this, reabilitation to society is a very important
part of the prison system.
N24 - your understanding of the fight against drugs here is misinformed. The zero tolerance here is against drug pushers not users. It's the pushers who are being killed and good riddance to them. Drug users are being sent on rehabilitation programmes (if they want to) and there are tens of thousands already in the system being or awaiting treatment. Many people in authority, police and politicians for example have been arrested for protecting drug pushers. In the past these scum have been given free reign to peddle their filth with impunity knowing they have the protection of the law. No longer is this the case, in just a few short months the drug trade has dwindled substantially. It may not be pretty but it's been damn well effective and the President is being hailed a hero by decent families throughout the islands.
The targeted killings of drug users on a massive scale in the Philipines is well documented. Here is a report from Amnesty International. Take note of this quote: He (Duerte) has actively encouraged the killing of drug addicts themselves, ....
Haha! the Guardian - that bastion of unbiased reporting - I don't think so.
N24 you are very good at telling everyone what is right or wrong from your home in Norway. Now listen to someone who actually lives in The Philippines and knows first hand of the situation.
Duterte was voted into power on a promise of ridding this country of the scum who make misery for the vast majority of decent law abiding citizens. That includes drug pushers, thieves, muggers, rapists, child molesters, etc etc. there was going to be no mercy for those who would not change their lives of crime. They had a choice - conform or face imprisonment or death. A stark choice, yes, but at least they got fair warning. Those who still insisted on peddling drugs will be killed or imprisoned. Drug users are offered rehab programmes (tens of thousands are in programmes now or are on waiting lists. Duterte thinks that if no one wants drugs then the pushers have no one to sell to. Those who refuse to enter into rehab programmes and still want to use drugs have the potential of being shot or imprisoned when found dealing. That's the choice they make and those are the drug addicts Duterte will happily slaughter - those who don't want to conform.
Duterte has caused a massive storm because his actions have been proven to work. if you deal in drugs, buying or selling, you will be shot/imprisoned. And imprisonment will be for a long, long time in a jail that you would not want to be in. Like all decent citizens of the world, Filipino's want to be able to go about their everyday lives without fear of danger. A recent poll listed his popularity at over 90%. As I have said before, it may not be pretty but it is effective.
And it's not just drug pushers that are being dealt with harshly it's all of the above and a lot of high ranking officials have been bought to justice for aiding and abetting these worthless scum who deal in misery for others.
N24 - the people of the Philippines have spoken - they back the President - just because it does not suit your personal agenda is of no consequence, you don't have to live here, the good Filipino people do and they want a country worth living in.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
CoolHandBond, in your earlier post you wrote I was "misinformed" when I said drug addicts were targeted for mass killings.Today you defend the killings that you claimed didn't happen just yesterday.
Didn't you know of the murderers on drug addicts, and then read up on the government line after seeing my sources?
I'll reply on the rest tomorrow, since I dread fighting autocorrect on my mobile in a long answer.
N24 you are misinformed because you thought that all drug users were being targeted. That is not the case. Only those who choose not to accept that buying and using drugs is wrong are being targeted. They have a choice - go to rehab or be a statistic.
Don't try and twist my words. And don't even attempt to patronise me about what is happening in my adopted country - I don't need to "read up" on anything that is happening here - stop being arrogant - I have outlined the situation here and that is how it is love it or hate it - my last post on this matter I don't wish to be banned.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
I'm not twisting your words. Just read your post number 12.849. You clearly state that only the pushers are targeted and the addicts are sent to treatment. When I found sources qouting your president telling people to target addicts for killings you deny what you just wrote. It's there for everyone to read.
N24 you are misinformed because you thought that all drug users were being targeted. That is not the case. Only those who choose not to accept that buying and using drugs is wrong are being targeted. They have a choice - go to rehab or be a statistic.
.
I wonder how Duertes Killers roots out the baddies from the innocent on their "mission".
Court trials take months or years with dozen of whitnesses pro and against.
Seems that Duerte found the "magic clue" where he and his assassins immediately find out if someone is good or bad
For sure there is a lot of scum out there but I'd only agree in death penalty if you can't show me one single case where someone was imprisoned/executed by "mistake". Woops
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
How do those against the death penalty feel about a rehabilitated killer being released to
Kill again ? After all if he'd been executed, the other innocent victims would still be alive ?
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Even through I didn't write it, I knew that not all addicts were targeted (at least in theory). People can however read the posts in question and make their own opinion, there is no point in us debating it further. I think your belief in the treatment the poor addicts are getting is too optimistic . At least one of the treatment programs in the slum is basketball training once a week. The addicts cue up to avoid getting murdered by the police or the death squads. Do you really think an heroin addict should be killed by the police because he didn't manager to quit heroin after going to his weekly basketball practice? Are you not worried that your president compared himself to Hitler and asked his people and police to kill millions of Phillophinos?
I know I probably use Norway as a positive example too often, but it's what I know best and it is clearly a society that works very well in most cases. I also know the Philliphines is a poor country with a lot of crime, much of it because of drugs. It's hard for me to relate. I also know your president is very popular. But isn't what was in the sources I posted worrying to you? You may not agree with the Guardian, ABC News or Amnesty International, but much of it was numbers and quoteations . Should the president really encourage unlawful killings by the thousands and even millions for an addiction that there is no capital punishment for?
You ask a very difficult moral question with no easy answers. A murderer with a reasonable likelyhod (spelling?) to kill again should't be let out of prison. In some cases this is easy to rule, but often this is hard to say. A prisoner who will ever be let out of prison should be treated and trained in a way that makes it less likely that he commits a crime again, for this very reason. At the same time he must be kept from being a threath to society, and it should be clear to him that society does not accept that sort of behavior that put him in prison in the first place.
N24 you are misinformed because you thought that all drug users were being targeted. That is not the case. Only those who choose not to accept that buying and using drugs is wrong are being targeted. They have a choice - go to rehab or be a statistic.
.
I wonder how Duertes Killers roots out the baddies from the innocent on their "mission".
Court trials take months or years with dozen of whitnesses pro and against.
Seems that Duerte found the "magic clue" where he and his assassins immediately find out if someone is good or bad
For sure there is a lot of scum out there but I'd only agree in death penalty if you can't show me one single case where someone was imprisoned/executed by "mistake". Woops
You're right Higgins, Duterte has found the magic clue. Don't buy or sell drugs or you will be shot or imprisoned for decades. No second chance, no second warning you've already had it. It's not too difficult to see a drug deal being made. They are not trading sweets. I would imagine that The Philippines is probably the only country in the world with the use of drugs massively on the decline. Duterte has the will of the people behind him and he has pledged to finish the job.
It's hard to have much sympathy for those who deal in misery. Only last week at the help center that I volunteer at a woman staggered in having been beaten to a pulp by her drug using husband. He had demanded that she went to buy drugs for him because he was too scared to go himself. She refused so he beat her senseless. One of my colleagues called the police who arrived at the home just as he was fleeing and he was called to stop, didn't and was shot in the leg and arrested. He will hopefully die in prison. I wish the bullet had gone in one ear and out the next.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
You're right Higgins, Duterte has found the magic clue. Don't buy or sell drugs or you will be shot or imprisoned for decades. No second chance, no second warning you've already had it.
Good to see that in your country of choice - people (particularly those with firearms in their hands) never make mistakes.
Sounds great - there is only black or white - good or bad.
These Amnesty International clueless treehuggers and evil human right activists only team up with the druglords to get their free weed
Has not much to do with our decadent liberal reality here 8-)
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
How do you feel about later evidently found innocent people that where executed for murder in the USA?
These people went to court ? Had a fair trial ? Had an appeal ? High Court ? Supreme Court ?
I can live with that.
Oh yes, US courts.
Where the law enforcement is often pressured to find evidence that "he did it" instead of collecting all kind of evidence.
Sorry Sir Miles, one innocent executed person is too much imo to support death penalty. Imagine that it was you (and don't say that I could live with that :v ).
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Just to play devil's advocate, ...
How do those against the death penalty feel about a rehabilitated killer being released to
Kill again ? After all if he'd been executed, the other innocent victims would still be alive ?
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,776Chief of Staff
How do you feel about later evidently found innocent people that where executed for murder in the USA?
These people went to court ? Had a fair trial ? Had an appeal ? High Court ? Supreme Court ?
I can live with that.
Oh yes, US courts.
Where the law enforcement is often pressured to find evidence that "he did it" instead of collecting all kind of evidence.
Sorry Sir Miles, one innocent executed person is too much imo to support death penalty. Imagine that it was you (and don't say that I could live with that :v ).
I understand your viewpoint, I just don't happen to share it.
Ban all cars then - one accident where one person dies is one person too many :v
Life isn't 'black and white' - as you pointed out above :v
Just out of curiosity...how many 'innocents' have been wrongly executed in the US over the last 20 years ?
I don't have numbers - but I know that innocent people have been executed evidently.
As for death penalty scaring people off - I don't really believe that this works.
The sheer number of firearms in the US and knowing that if you do something wrong with it may end in yourself getting executed speaks against it.
Our system here theoretically locks up murderers (and not only murderers) that pose a threat for society - even after their regular sentence is being "sat out".
And - as life is not only black and white - the experts sometimes misjudge them albeight their expertise.
I may have told the story previously, but one of my wife's colleagues stabbed another colleague to death with a kitchen knife and my wife would have been the next - they where the ones that the killer had most trouble with.
She came free after 1(!!) year - without her coworkers getting notified - she even had the face to apply again with the company X-(
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
There exists cases that are so far beyond doubt, like breivik, Hindley and Brady, Peter Sutcliffe, fritz, manson and countless others where keeping these monsters is beneficial to no one. Each case must be dealt with independently, it simply is not the case that every conviction is unsafe. No one bats an eye lid when a terrorist is shot dead! In fact if a terrorist is shot on his way to commit an atrocity it's heralded as a victory.
Unfortunately in parts of the world society and moral compasses are so broken radical solutions are needed! In the UK prison holds no fears for a lot of criminals, I argue keeping someone locked up for so long and institutionalising them so much that they can never re enter society is not a good system and pointless, I can tell you all, not many servicemen who spend time in the glasshouses would want to follow back, daily beasting while a sergeant stands on your hands while your laying on the floor, painting used engine oil on land-rover chassis, hard physical labour and if you have a reputation as a hard man physical exercise to such an extent you are incapable of causing any trouble. I'm not suggesting this for civvy prison but 3 square meals a day, sky, gyms etc is not a deterrent.
You're right Higgins, Duterte has found the magic clue. Don't buy or sell drugs or you will be shot or imprisoned for decades. No second chance, no second warning you've already had it.
Good to see that in your country of choice - people (particularly those with firearms in their hands) never make mistakes.
Sounds great - there is only black or white - good or bad.
These Amnesty International clueless treehuggers and evil human right activists only team up with the druglords to get their free weed
Has not much to do with our decadent liberal reality here 8-)
Many solutions have been tried before in many countries and all seem to have failed, this is something new (and drastically different, agreed) and still in it's infancy, so it will be interesting to see how it all pans out in the end. For the moment the people are liking it and I will be the first to enter a post should things suddenly change.
Anyway onto other things, Higgins, have you been to HK lately? I was there recently for the annual Christmas shopping expedition, it's still as vibrant as ever -{
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
Comments
Paedophiles have no human rights whatsoever. A quick death should apply to all cases.
I was reminded about this last night, Glamour Magazine names Bono
on their list for " Woman of the year" !
The targeted killings of drug users on a massive scale in the Philipines is well documented. Here is a report from Amnesty International. Take note of this quote: He (Duerte) has actively encouraged the killing of drug addicts themselves, ....
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/10/philippines-dutertes-hundred-days-of-carnage/
This is from the Guardian; Last week Duterte, after citing Hitler and the Holocaust, said he would happily “slaughter” three million drug addicts.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/30/rodrigo-duterte-vows-to-kill-3-million-drug-addicts-and-likens-himself-to-hitler
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/04/philippines-secret-death-squads-police-officer-teams-behind-killings
ABS News;Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte tells people to 'go ahead and kill' drug addicts
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-02/philippines-rodrigo-duterte-urges-communists-to-kill-criminals/7562912
You see, Bono is all things to all people, and that includes Gods as well.
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/m...ng/a/23612291/
40% edible food thrown away in the US alone !
And that's just US , take Norway for example (brief translation) :
"Every year food for tens of billions of krones is thrown away in Norway. Much of this food is completely safe to eat, and there is something seriously wrong when tons of food is wasted.
Now we need to put in place a ban here in Norway"
"The proposal comes after a new law came into force in France last week where is it now illegal for supermarket chains to throw food while it is still edible.
"We want to do like in France and fine grocery stores that throw edible food. The most important thing for us is that food that is fully edible should not go to waste and a ban on throwing food should help supermarkets in a big way and politicians realize the seriousness"
"Many supermarket chains have even initiated good arrangements to reduce waste but it's still too much food being thrown , 130,000 tons edible food.
"We know, moreover, that 10% of greenhouse gas emissions from the wealthy part of the world is due to food waste"
"There are simply a lot of good arguments to expedite this work"
"361 000 tons edible food was thrown in Norway in 2013"
Hit the nail right on the head with that article.
He hardly ever bought food. Instead he asked the shops for food past its sell-by date or picked it out of the garbage containers.
The man could tell me the food was perfectly fine if it smelled OK. Some types of food, such as beef, actually tastes better after it's supposed to be thrown away. Food for thought :v
The reason I asked was that you seemed to belive I might want Breivik and his kind to have a quick reform program of a couple of years and then be let out into society, just to live a life of ease on the government's expense. Did you really suspect that?
If you did, it's not a long leap to suspect you drank the cool-aid of the right-wing media.
Your theory about the different views on the penal system based on if you are a crime victim or not, is at best simplistic.
I can of cource see that many crime victims would wish a very tough punishment on the crimninals, but it's not that simple. Many who have never been the victim of a serious crime favour the death penalty, while some victims don't. I know several survivors of the Utøya attacks and the families of some of the people killed there were glad Breivik got a fair trial and the principles of rule of law were not thrown overboard.
Haha! the Guardian - that bastion of unbiased reporting - I don't think so.
N24 you are very good at telling everyone what is right or wrong from your home in Norway. Now listen to someone who actually lives in The Philippines and knows first hand of the situation.
Duterte was voted into power on a promise of ridding this country of the scum who make misery for the vast majority of decent law abiding citizens. That includes drug pushers, thieves, muggers, rapists, child molesters, etc etc. there was going to be no mercy for those who would not change their lives of crime. They had a choice - conform or face imprisonment or death. A stark choice, yes, but at least they got fair warning. Those who still insisted on peddling drugs will be killed or imprisoned. Drug users are offered rehab programmes (tens of thousands are in programmes now or are on waiting lists. Duterte thinks that if no one wants drugs then the pushers have no one to sell to. Those who refuse to enter into rehab programmes and still want to use drugs have the potential of being shot or imprisoned when found dealing. That's the choice they make and those are the drug addicts Duterte will happily slaughter - those who don't want to conform.
Duterte has caused a massive storm because his actions have been proven to work. if you deal in drugs, buying or selling, you will be shot/imprisoned. And imprisonment will be for a long, long time in a jail that you would not want to be in. Like all decent citizens of the world, Filipino's want to be able to go about their everyday lives without fear of danger. A recent poll listed his popularity at over 90%. As I have said before, it may not be pretty but it is effective.
And it's not just drug pushers that are being dealt with harshly it's all of the above and a lot of high ranking officials have been bought to justice for aiding and abetting these worthless scum who deal in misery for others.
N24 - the people of the Philippines have spoken - they back the President - just because it does not suit your personal agenda is of no consequence, you don't have to live here, the good Filipino people do and they want a country worth living in.
Didn't you know of the murderers on drug addicts, and then read up on the government line after seeing my sources?
I'll reply on the rest tomorrow, since I dread fighting autocorrect on my mobile in a long answer.
Don't try and twist my words. And don't even attempt to patronise me about what is happening in my adopted country - I don't need to "read up" on anything that is happening here - stop being arrogant - I have outlined the situation here and that is how it is love it or hate it - my last post on this matter I don't wish to be banned.
I wonder how Duertes Killers roots out the baddies from the innocent on their "mission".
Court trials take months or years with dozen of whitnesses pro and against.
Seems that Duerte found the "magic clue" where he and his assassins immediately find out if someone is good or bad
For sure there is a lot of scum out there but I'd only agree in death penalty if you can't show me one single case where someone was imprisoned/executed by "mistake". Woops
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
How do those against the death penalty feel about a rehabilitated killer being released to
Kill again ? After all if he'd been executed, the other innocent victims would still be alive ?
How do you feel about later evidently found innocent people that where executed for murder in the USA?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I know I probably use Norway as a positive example too often, but it's what I know best and it is clearly a society that works very well in most cases. I also know the Philliphines is a poor country with a lot of crime, much of it because of drugs. It's hard for me to relate. I also know your president is very popular. But isn't what was in the sources I posted worrying to you? You may not agree with the Guardian, ABC News or Amnesty International, but much of it was numbers and quoteations . Should the president really encourage unlawful killings by the thousands and even millions for an addiction that there is no capital punishment for?
You ask a very difficult moral question with no easy answers. A murderer with a reasonable likelyhod (spelling?) to kill again should't be let out of prison. In some cases this is easy to rule, but often this is hard to say. A prisoner who will ever be let out of prison should be treated and trained in a way that makes it less likely that he commits a crime again, for this very reason. At the same time he must be kept from being a threath to society, and it should be clear to him that society does not accept that sort of behavior that put him in prison in the first place.
Every system has pros and cons.
These people went to court ? Had a fair trial ? Had an appeal ? High Court ? Supreme Court ?
I can live with that.
as that can be fatal.
You're right Higgins, Duterte has found the magic clue. Don't buy or sell drugs or you will be shot or imprisoned for decades. No second chance, no second warning you've already had it. It's not too difficult to see a drug deal being made. They are not trading sweets. I would imagine that The Philippines is probably the only country in the world with the use of drugs massively on the decline. Duterte has the will of the people behind him and he has pledged to finish the job.
It's hard to have much sympathy for those who deal in misery. Only last week at the help center that I volunteer at a woman staggered in having been beaten to a pulp by her drug using husband. He had demanded that she went to buy drugs for him because he was too scared to go himself. She refused so he beat her senseless. One of my colleagues called the police who arrived at the home just as he was fleeing and he was called to stop, didn't and was shot in the leg and arrested. He will hopefully die in prison. I wish the bullet had gone in one ear and out the next.
Good to see that in your country of choice - people (particularly those with firearms in their hands) never make mistakes.
Sounds great - there is only black or white - good or bad.
These Amnesty International clueless treehuggers and evil human right activists only team up with the druglords to get their free weed
Has not much to do with our decadent liberal reality here 8-)
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Oh yes, US courts.
Where the law enforcement is often pressured to find evidence that "he did it" instead of collecting all kind of evidence.
Sorry Sir Miles, one innocent executed person is too much imo to support death penalty. Imagine that it was you (and don't say that I could live with that :v ).
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
How do those against the death penalty feel about a rehabilitated killer being released to
Kill again ? After all if he'd been executed, the other innocent victims would still be alive ?
I understand your viewpoint, I just don't happen to share it.
Ban all cars then - one accident where one person dies is one person too many :v
Life isn't 'black and white' - as you pointed out above :v
Just out of curiosity...how many 'innocents' have been wrongly executed in the US over the last 20 years ?
I don't have numbers - but I know that innocent people have been executed evidently.
As for death penalty scaring people off - I don't really believe that this works.
The sheer number of firearms in the US and knowing that if you do something wrong with it may end in yourself getting executed speaks against it.
Our system here theoretically locks up murderers (and not only murderers) that pose a threat for society - even after their regular sentence is being "sat out".
And - as life is not only black and white - the experts sometimes misjudge them albeight their expertise.
I may have told the story previously, but one of my wife's colleagues stabbed another colleague to death with a kitchen knife and my wife would have been the next - they where the ones that the killer had most trouble with.
She came free after 1(!!) year - without her coworkers getting notified - she even had the face to apply again with the company X-(
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Many solutions have been tried before in many countries and all seem to have failed, this is something new (and drastically different, agreed) and still in it's infancy, so it will be interesting to see how it all pans out in the end. For the moment the people are liking it and I will be the first to enter a post should things suddenly change.
Anyway onto other things, Higgins, have you been to HK lately? I was there recently for the annual Christmas shopping expedition, it's still as vibrant as ever -{