Why not Michael Giacchino?

TracyTracy the VillagePosts: 369MI6 Agent
in James Bond Music
Even though it looks like David Arnold will be scoring Bond 21, I think it would be interesting if we switched composers for a new Bond because Arnold's been churning out some pretty disappointing scores within the last two years. I'm talking about non-Bond scores, too; his work on the Stepford Wives was one of the most dire ones I've heard all year. It's true that he's had some crummy assignments lately (2 Fast 2 Furious anyone?), but other composers have gotten themselves out of these ruts before. And just because you've got a dire film doesn't mean that is an excuse to come up with a lousy score, to paraphrase from Henry Mancini and John Barry.

So for a change of pace and some fresh talent, why not hire Michael Giacchino for Bond 21? He's getting a lot of experience for writing for the spy action-adventure genre; I can't think of any scores of his that even venture upon mediocrity. Yes, most of his experience is scoring computer and video games, but even those I've heard have excellent soundtracks. He's probably best known for his work on "Alias;" all consistently excellent adrenaline-pumping cues for the fight sequences and some interesting suspense and location music elsewhere.

Giacchino's score for the Incredibles is the most Bond-ish score I've heard in years. With this score, Giacchino's proven he can handle paying some delightful musical homages to the more well-known 60's spy music while creating some engaging original themes. He actually provides emotional backing for what's going on screen; there are some absolutely lovely flute and string cues for the family scenes. Why shouldn't he be hired for Bond 21, then?
Flattery will get you nowhere, but don't stop trying.

Comments

  • Sir Hillary BraySir Hillary Bray College of ArmsPosts: 2,174MI6 Agent
    Quoting Tracy:
    Giacchino's score for the Incredibles is the most Bond-ish score I've heard in years. With this score, Giacchino's proven he can handle paying some delightful musical homages to the more well-known 60's spy music while creating some engaging original themes. He actually provides emotional backing for what's going on screen; there are some absolutely lovely flute and string cues for the family scenes. Why shouldn't he be hired for Bond 21, then?
    Tracy, your knowledge of film scores runs circles around mine, but isn't it a contention of yours that Giacchino's Incredibles score makes liberal use of the stuff Barry wrote before he left the project? Don't get me wrong, my biggest takeaway from that film was the uncannily Bond-esque music, which I loved. If that was really his, bring him aboard!
    Hilly...you old devil!
  • The CatThe Cat Where Blofeld is!Posts: 711MI6 Agent
    It's really the case of the chicken and the egg. Is Giacchino's score Barryesque/Bondesque because he borrows elements from the likes of OHMSS, or does it fit in its own right? I mean Arnold reuses Barry stuff more than anybody else, but he does it in the context of Bond movies.

    While I only heard snippets of the actual score, I seem to hear some tracks based on the vamp. Now reusing the vamp is the most convininent way of creating a Bondesque score and it doesn't even need credting, because the vamp is common property in musical circles. It's a very clever method, I must add...
  • TracyTracy the VillagePosts: 369MI6 Agent
    edited January 2005
    Tracy, your knowledge of film scores runs circles around mine, but isn't it a contention of yours that Giacchino's Incredibles score makes liberal use of the stuff Barry wrote before he left the project? Don't get me wrong, my biggest takeaway from that film was the uncannily Bond-esque music, which I loved. If that was really his, bring him aboard!

    It is true that Barry was initially hired to do the Incredibles (though I've had a lot of trouble trying to find "official" sources stating such a thing; the liner notes, end credits of the film, and the IMDB make absolutely no reference to him), but it's unknown by fans how much of the score he actually wrote. All I've heard was that he wrote some of the initial themes, which really could mean anything. I've listened to the score quite a few times, and I've tried to figure out the bits that Barry might/probably did write, but it's extremely difficult as I'm not sure by how much Giacchino altered Barry's work. I must admit that Giacchino's a very good imitator, but his work on Alias does have some interesting bits that could work in a Bond film that appear to be Barry-free. But even taking the Incredibles aside, I believe that his work on Alias alone should make him an able and qualified candidate for the position of Bond 21 composer.
    It's really the case of the chicken and the egg. Is Giacchino's score Barryesque/Bondesque because he borrows elements from the likes of OHMSS, or does it fit in its own right? I mean Arnold reuses Barry stuff more than anybody else, but he does it in the context of Bond movies.

    While I only heard snippets of the actual score, I seem to hear some tracks based on the vamp. Now reusing the vamp is the most convininent way of creating a Bondesque score and it doesn't even need credting, because the vamp is common property in musical circles. It's a very clever method, I must add...

    While there are quite a few Bond influences on the Incredibles (I'll post up my list of track similarities between the Incredibles and Bond later), Giacchino does borrow a few elements, especially during the suspense and action cues, from his work on Alias. I'm not sure how familiar you are with Alias, but you can definitely hear the "Rambaldi" theme (I can't think of a better title, hopefully someone knows what I'm talking about?) as well as what I dub the Alias horn flare (no idea how to describe it; you can hear it approximately at 3:07 or some seconds after on track 12, "Lithe or Death") as well as an Alias-type suspense theme in the strings starting at 3:00. Essentially what I'm trying to say is that Giacchino is perfectly capable of coming up with his own material that sounds good in Bond-type situations, plus he's a really good imitator :).

    Unfortunately my knowledge of instruments is pretty pathetic, so I'm not exactly sure what exactly the vamp sounds like. I'm guessing that you might be referring to a certain passage in the end titles, track 19, that has a very 60's sounding instrument at approximately one minute and 45 seconds into the piece; I thought that this might be a vibraphone but I'm probably wrong. Most of the tracks are heavily brass and string based with the occasional flute and harp thrown in for the quieter cues.
    Flattery will get you nowhere, but don't stop trying.
  • The CatThe Cat Where Blofeld is!Posts: 711MI6 Agent
    Vamp is the description of the four note-continuing theme which goes through the James Bond Theme. The vamp is common property i musical circles, so anyone can use it. Monty Norman only gets credit (and money), if the riffs or the bebops are used (this is what's played with the guitar.) If you listen, the Goldfinger and Thunderall heavliy use the vamp, and so does Geore Martin's WHOLE score. But they don't have to credit Norman as 'co-writer' because they only use the vamp.
  • albinoalbino Posts: 9MI6 Agent
    edited January 2005
    What about the end of Track 5 on TMWTGG soundtrack? That features the riff, and is not credited.

    There are more instances as well...

    Maybe they aren't too worried about the vamp being used in the "official" films because every single official James Bond film composer has used the James Bond Theme.
  • The CatThe Cat Where Blofeld is!Posts: 711MI6 Agent
    Quoting albino:
    What about the end of Track 5 on TMWTGG soundtrack? That features the riff, and is not credited.

    There are more instances as well...

    Maybe they aren't too worried about the vamp being used in the "official" films because every single official James Bond film composer has used the James Bond Theme.

    But Norman gets credit on the end of every film. ;) The new remastere soundtracks don't really care about this, the 'who-wrote-what' issue is really dominant in the latter movies, see DAD for instance, though in that case, there is serious miscrediting on the tracklist.
  • TracyTracy the VillagePosts: 369MI6 Agent
    Quoting The Cat:
    Vamp is the description of the four note-continuing theme which goes through the James Bond Theme. The vamp is common property i musical circles, so anyone can use it. Monty Norman only gets credit (and money), if the riffs or the bebops are used (this is what's played with the guitar.) If you listen, the Goldfinger and Thunderall heavliy use the vamp, and so does Geore Martin's WHOLE score. But they don't have to credit Norman as 'co-writer' because they only use the vamp.

    Ah, thanks for the explanation. Hence Secret Agent Man didn't run into copywright issues :).

    As for Giacchino, he uses at least two vamps for the James Bond imitator motif and for the Incredible family motif. There's another hero motif floating around, but I'm too lazy to go track it down right now.

    As far as I can remember Alias doesn't use any vamps at all.
    Flattery will get you nowhere, but don't stop trying.
  • spectre7spectre7 LondonPosts: 118MI6 Agent
    Yeah it's a shame about David Arnold. Early work such as Stargate and Independence Day showed a lot of promise. Whatever abilities he had back then seem to have deserted him now.

    The Incredibles was the last soundtrack I bought and Giacchino is clearly up to the task. That score features some of the best Bond music not written for a Bond film that I've ever heard.
  • TracyTracy the VillagePosts: 369MI6 Agent
    spectre7, if you're a David Arnold fan you might enjoy his work on the Last of the Dogmen. A friend of mine recommended it to me, and apparently it's the score that made John Barry recommend Arnold to the Bond producers.

    Glad to see another Incredibles score fan here :)
    Flattery will get you nowhere, but don't stop trying.
  • doukendouken Posts: 6MI6 Agent
    I agree that Giacchino should score a Bond film! I just saw The Incredibles for the first time the other day and I loved it! Although Giacchino never re-used any of Barry's work in the film, you could tell it had a Barry sound and I definately know all of Barry's Bondtracks. I think Arnold should be axed after his last three Bondtracks...the scores had no direction to them or any continuity to speak of. It was just a bunch of brassy techno with the Bond theme played to death.
  • The CatThe Cat Where Blofeld is!Posts: 711MI6 Agent
    Quoting douken:
    Although Giacchino never re-used any of Barry's work in the film, you could tell it had a Barry sound and I definately know all of Barry's Bondtracks.

    :)) But he did, believe me. You should listen to the score as well, it's more obvious there. ;)
  • Rogue_AgentRogue_Agent Posts: 8MI6 Agent
    Finally, others who love the work of Michael Giacchino!! The style that he showed in his score for "The Incredibles" shows that he is the perfect choice to score a Bond film. After hearing the score for "The Incredibles" is showed that the big score soundtracks can still be produced. David Arnold's scores have been the opposite, all three Bond scores that he has done have sounded out of place and makes it obvious that David Arnold is totally the wrong person to do a 007 score. Going back to Michael Giacchino, it looks to me as his musical genius is already fitted for the world of James Bond, his score for "The Incredibles" is the perfect musical style needed for James Bond. I also believe that if Mr. Giacchino is choosen to do a Bond score, you won't need an original song for the opening titles, because Mr. Giacchino would be able to do a brilliant piece of score and nobody would notice that there are no words. As I've been saying since I first heard the score for "The Incredibles," Michael Giacchino is the only person who can do a Bond score and he should be given his chance to bring his talents to this series which hasn't really seen a good score since the late great Michael Kamen's excellent score for "Licence to Kill".
  • TracyTracy the VillagePosts: 369MI6 Agent
    One of the things that I love the most about Giacchino is that he's capable of making references to the swinging, jazzy music of 60's spy series like the Bond films and still bring a sort of modern approach by adding in the occasional techno elements without drowning out the orchestra. Giacchino insisted on using a live studio orchestra that was all in attendance for the recording sessions on the Incredibles, and the resulting soundtrack showed how great just this simple gathering of the studio musicians turned out to be. Giacchino also convinced JJ Abrams on Alias to increasingly rely on a live studio orchestra to mirror the emotional undercurrents rather than use electronic instruments as a cheaper substitute. Giacchino was the first composer to score a video game with a live orchestra, although he has written a good many techno compositions that sound great on their own for Alias. I personally love the slightly bombastic, swaggering approach for the big spy missions scenes in the Incredibles and Alias while being able to smoothly transition into more understated, introspective passages. This consistent transitioning, something which David Arnold has not been able to do for the past few years, is one of the biggest reasons why I think that Arnold ought to be replaced with Giacchino to aurally invigorate the Bond series.
    Flattery will get you nowhere, but don't stop trying.
  • The CatThe Cat Where Blofeld is!Posts: 711MI6 Agent
    I think a crucial part is forgotten... Giacchino is not only 'relatively young,' he is new in the business. The Incredibles was his first major score and he still needs shameless self-promotion to become a real LARGE name. Making great scores is sadly not enough in this business... Because if EON producers only choose who can do great Bond sound, than hwo did they ever came up with Eric Serra? ?:) :))
  • The CatThe Cat Where Blofeld is!Posts: 711MI6 Agent
    His scheduel seems to be quite filled, doesn't it? ?:) And a score like MI3 is not great until it's released. ;)

    No seriously, if I heard official talks about Giacchino even being considered, I'd say "Go Mike!"

    But EON still has Arnold, and even if he won't return (which is pretty unlikely), they already have another composer on the short-list and prepared for such incidents... And it's not Giacchino.
  • TracyTracy the VillagePosts: 369MI6 Agent
    The Cat wrote:
    I think a crucial part is forgotten... Giacchino is not only 'relatively young,' he is new in the business. The Incredibles was his first major score and he still needs shameless self-promotion to become a real LARGE name. Making great scores is sadly not enough in this business... Because if EON producers only choose who can do great Bond sound, than hwo did they ever came up with Eric Serra? ?:) :))

    Young and fairly new, yes, but he does seem to have some pretty big connections to Steven Spielberg and JJ Abrams. Unfortunately, it does look like Arnold will be returning (the official party line probably says that they need some continuity to introduce the new Bond, but look what happened when Brosnan came in to the series. Perhaps the filmmakers are scared of finding another Eric Serra?
    Flattery will get you nowhere, but don't stop trying.
  • Rogue_AgentRogue_Agent Posts: 8MI6 Agent
    I really don't want to hear another terrible score by David Arnold. The past three films, in my opinion, featured the three worst scores in Bond history. As for Mr. Giacchino, Eon isn't wanting to bring him in for two reasons- he's American, and they know that the fans would prefer his music over the techno moron known as David Arnold. If you're one saying that he doesn't have enough experience, then how did David Arnold get the job in the first place- before he did TND, the only major score of his that I heard was his score for "Independance Day". So heres my message to Eon- David Arnold out, Michael Giacchino in!
  • spectre7spectre7 LondonPosts: 118MI6 Agent
    Regardless of what one thinks of David Arnold, his three scores can't be lumped together as the worst of the Bond series. I doubt anyone here prefers Eric Serra's Goldeneye over Arnold's Tomorrow Never Dies.
  • spectre7spectre7 LondonPosts: 118MI6 Agent
    they already have another composer on the short-list and prepared for such incidents... And it's not Giacchino.
    Who is it then? Edward Shearmur?
  • Rogue_AgentRogue_Agent Posts: 8MI6 Agent
    Tracy wrote:
    Perhaps the filmmakers are scared of finding another Eric Serra?

    I don't think they'll need to worry about Michael Giacchino turning into another Eric Serra. Serra's score for "GoldenEye" was easily the worst in the franchaise's history, and Michael Giacchino has already proven that he could do any kind of style that the filmmakers may want for a Bond film. If you want a more 60's score in the style of John Barry- listen to his score for "The Incredibles" and if you want a more modern style- listen to his stuff from "Alias"
  • TracyTracy the VillagePosts: 369MI6 Agent
    Rogue_Agent wrote:
    As for Mr. Giacchino, Eon isn't wanting to bring him in for two reasons- he's American, and they know that the fans would prefer his music over the techno moron known as David Arnold.

    Errr...doesn't that sound more like why the filmmakers would WANT to hire Giacchino? :)

    Besides that, you've just insulted Marvin Hamlisch, Bill Conti, and Michael Kamen in one blow with your comments about "Americans" :P

    And thanks, bladerunner_ozd :)
    Flattery will get you nowhere, but don't stop trying.
  • TracyTracy the VillagePosts: 369MI6 Agent
    Rogue_Agent wrote:
    As for Mr. Giacchino, Eon isn't wanting to bring him in for two reasons- he's American, and they know that the fans would prefer his music over the techno moron known as David Arnold.

    Errr...doesn't that sound more like why the filmmakers would WANT to hire Giacchino? :)

    Besides that, you've just insulted Marvin Hamlisch, Bill Conti, and Michael Kamen in one blow with your comments about "Americans" :P

    And thanks, bladerunner_ozd :)
    Flattery will get you nowhere, but don't stop trying.
  • Rogue_AgentRogue_Agent Posts: 8MI6 Agent
    edited July 2005
    Tracy wrote:
    Rogue_Agent wrote:
    As for Mr. Giacchino, Eon isn't wanting to bring him in for two reasons- he's American, and they know that the fans would prefer his music over the techno moron known as David Arnold.

    Errr...doesn't that sound more like why the filmmakers would WANT to hire Giacchino? :)

    Besides that, you've just insulted Marvin Hamlisch, Bill Conti, and Michael Kamen in one blow with your comments about "Americans"

    I was saying that the producers don't want what the fans want. Also, I didn't mean to say that Eon has never hired an american before. I really like what Hamlisch, Conti & Kamen did with their score for TSWLM, FYEO & LTK (Actually if Kamen were still alive, I would be suggesting that he comes in to do another Bond score). What I meant with the Americans comment was that the producers don't want to fire a British composer for an American composer at this time. I'm hoping that Mr. Giacchino gets at least one oppurtunity to compose a Bond score.
  • The HunterThe Hunter Posts: 6MI6 Agent
    moh : frontline has some great music. He is also good at other style hence his Space Mountain : Mission 2 soundtrack for the Disneyland paris park.
  • bluemanblueman PDXPosts: 1,667MI6 Agent
    I liked the Incredibles soundtrack as well, not convinced what he did for a cartoon movie would translate to live action (haven't seen/heard Alias). Maybe, maybe not. It sure was a fun and very 60s/Barry/Bondian bit of scoring.

    John Powell, who scored The Italian Job remake, showed a lot of good flair in that movie, I'd be willing to give him a go as well.
  • ravenlovesbondravenlovesbond Posts: 2MI6 Agent
    Giacchino would be a welcome addition to the new direction of Bond! While I think Arnold did alright scoring the previous three films, Michael Giacchino's scores for the show Lost and the film The Incredibles were impressive to say the least! Did he not win the Oscar for Original Score? I can't remember at the moment?

    Feedback?
  • The CatThe Cat Where Blofeld is!Posts: 711MI6 Agent
    No he didn't win. It went to Kaczmarek's incredibly boring Fidning Neverland. Yawn. BUT and I can't say this enough times, this can not happen in the near future. Not only he is an overworked television composer - he can only do one or two major films besides Lost and Alias. And most of all, because of his equipment, studio and his contacts, he can only work in Hollywood. EON needs some who either resides in England or is willing to get there and spend a year there and be ready any moment the producers want something. As long as Giacchino does Alias and Lost, he simply can't move far away for that long. The likes of John Powell and other MV-babies can't do a Bond score for the exact same reasons, but the fact that Giacchino is able to orchestrate and conduct on his own makes his situation a bit better.
  • a rogue AIa rogue AI Posts: 128MI6 Agent
    That's a pity. Being in love with The Incredibles' score, I'd (also) love to see what Giacchino would do with Bond 22. Maybe a "Giacchino for Bond 22" thread is in order? :p
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,860Chief of Staff
    There was a thread along those lines once, I seem to remember.
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    Well I believe that some of the video game composers like Don Veca, Jeff Tymoschuck, Grant Kirkhope and the like should be considered. I listened to Tymoschuck's action tracks for Nightfire, and they're absolutely stupendous in the ways he subtly pays homage to all the films. I especially love 'Escape From Drake's Castle' where he uses a pseudo-007 theme. Pure magic!
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