I think the criticism of Routh is way off base. I found his Superman to be a very likable character who physically looked the part perfectly. Any failure with the character should fall squarely on Singer who simply didn't give him enough to do (and Clark Kent was really screwed, reduced to mere minutes of screen time). A perfect example is the bank robbery scene, where Superman shows up, deflects some bullets and then...nothing. As much as I disliked the whole child subplot, I found his acting in the scene where he speaks to his sleeping son very moving. I think the guy can act; but his director has to give him more to work with.
From a larger article in today's Variety where WB discusses it's pretty bad year (Poseiden, Lady in The Water etc)
It hasn't helped Warner that none of the six profitable movies it has released this year including "V for Vendetta" and "Superman Returns" has been a blockbuster. Horn said the half-dozen would make "from a lot to a little" money.
Horn declined to divulge figures, but a person familiar with the studio's internal projections said Warner's cut of the "Superman Returns" profit was expected to be $50 million to $60 million. The film cost $209 million to produce and more than $100 million to market worldwide.
Horn expects "Superman Returns" to eventually gross about $400 million worldwide, more than last year's hit "Batman Begins." Nonetheless, "Superman" fell at least $100 million short of his expectations.
"I thought it was a very successful movie, but I think it should have done $500 million worldwide," Horn said. "We should have had perhaps a little more action to satisfy the young male crowd."
Still, he's betting Warner has firmly reestablished the "Superman" franchise and is planning another installment for summer 2009.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Still, he's betting Warner has firmly reestablished the "Superman" franchise and is planning another installment for summer 2009.
Key word here... "betting" Doesn't sound very assuring does it? What else does one say if he's rubbing egg off of his face? The way this is worded sounds like his guess is as good as mine that Superman will be business as usual... 8-)
Just get rid of Singer, Bosworth and the kid and I can live with it. But I'll settle like Meatloaf for two outta three... that ain't bad.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I started reading Kevin Smith's Superman Lives script today. It is a lot more sassy and hectic than the one they finally used but a bit too much at times. His script seems to be aimed at people who have a decent knowledge of the comics which may be why it wasn't used.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I started reading Kevin Smith's Superman Lives script today. It is a lot more sassy and hectic than the one they finally used but a bit too much at times. His script seems to be aimed at people who have a decent knowledge of the comics which may be why it wasn't used.
Yes, Arthur, Kevin Smith's scripts lean towards very "fanboy" and don't necessarily appeal to the broader audiences it will take to rake in the mighty dollar. That's not to say that he couldn't compose the perfect balance it's just that I haven't read it yet.
GET PAUL DINI I say.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Ditch Superboy. Kill him off in the next one, it gives Superman a reason or motivation to be vengeful or tortured. Introduce a new villain this way, give him a big scene...
Or have Superboy exiled, framed or stuck in that spinning LP that Zod and co got trapped in, done by a returning Zod or something... or have him go to another world to save...
I've yet to come across a single person who likes the idea of Superman being a father. It's definitely at odds with what many of us expect from the character and probably contributed greatly to the diminished domestic box office.
I have a feeling that any chance Singer has of making another movie will hinge on his accepting the fact that most people didn't care for that plot thread and then coming up with a clever way of writing him out of future movies that will appeal to fans and the studio.
The movie continues to do well internationally; it's already taken in $170 million abroad and has yet to open in several key markets. It's overall take stands at $360 million and it will of course make even move with DVD sales and rentals.
Given those kinds of figures, I think there will be another Superman movie. The bigger question right now is who will be making it?
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
The movie continues to do well internationally; it's already taken in $170 million abroad and has yet to open in several key markets. It's overall take stands at $360 million and it will of course make even move with DVD sales and rentals.
Too bad that in the international box office, the theatres get the majority of the take. I've read certain articles backing this claim up. I'll look for them...
That is why it was imperative that the film faired well domestically. They'll need DVD sales to be generous just to break even...
Superman Returns will be released on multiple DVD formats (DVD, HD-DVD, BluRay) on November 28, 2006. Sadly, none of the versions appear to include the deleted scenes of Superman visiting Krypton. The two disk "special edition" doesn't seem all that special. I'll probably get the bare-bones movie and wait for the inevitable "Ultimate Edition" which will no doubt eventually be released. Here's a link for more info:
Aw, rats! I thought that someone was posting that Singer will be fired from any forseeable sequel.
Oh, well...wishful thinking.
You never know Rogue, hope springs eternal. Maybe Singer will want to go back to X-Men since his ideas on Superman were not exactly embraced with open arms. But more importantly, does this mean you won't be buying the Superman Returns DVD?
Thanks for the link. I was still hazy on the reasons why there were two versions, two directors etc but all was explained by the comments on the Amazon page. It looks like this will be the Superman film that a lot of people wanted but feel they didn't get in the summer.
Thanks for the link. I was still hazy on the reasons why there were two versions, two directors etc but all was explained by the comments on the Amazon page. It looks like this will be the Superman film that a lot of people wanted but feel they didn't get in the summer.
I'll definitely be picking up both movies (Donner's Superman II and Superman Returns) when they're released. I'm really looking forward to finally getting Donner's vision of SII.
Despite RogueAgent's nearly religious condemnation of Superman Returns ( ), I think it and the two Donner movies complement each other nicely and will make for a very satisfying trilogy.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
What are the chances of Donner's cut being released in the cinemas?
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
What are the chances of Donner's cut being released in the cinemas?
I'd read that WB was considering releasing Donner's two Superman movies theatrically before the DVD releases, but nothing ever came of it. Since the DVD will be coming out next month I don't think it will shown in a movie theater any time soon.
By the way, last time I checked Superman Returns was only about $200,000 shy of reaching the magic $200 million dollar mark in the USA; globally it has earned nearly $390 million. With those numbers we may yet get another Superman movie (hopefully without Singer and junior) in a few years.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
By the way, last time I checked Superman Returns was only about $200,000 shy of reaching the magic $200 million dollar mark in the USA; globally it has earned nearly $390 million. With those numbers we may yet get another Superman movie (hopefully without Singer and junior) in a few years.
A projection that should've been reached after 2-3 weeks of release. Word of mouth stalled this because it was a stale and dumb film...
Batman Begins had the opposite effect. Had we been able to get the bad taste of the Schumacher films out of our mouths, this would've made considerably more than it did so its slow but respectable take is warranted.
WB should carry on with a Supes folow-up but vote to fire Singer & his Lifetime Channel crew 8-).
Get a director that UNDERSTANDS and RESPECTS the mythos of Superman and conveys this to film without hacking material already covered during the Disco era. Any particular director come to mind?
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Sorry Rogue, somehow I doubt Chris Nolan will want to do the next Superman film (but we can always hope).
A good director is important, but they need a good story first. They should get Paul Dini to write a treatment, and not dismiss it out of hand as they are likely to do because he isn't hot in Hollywood.
As for Superman Returns, for all its flaws, it does have some good moments: Routh is well cast, his rescue of the airplane and shuttle are great, I really liked Spacey's Luthor, and the final sequence with New Krypton is visually engaging. There's still plenty of stuff in there for me to enjoy.
You take the good with the bad; in this case I still think the good outweighs the bad and I for one would still welcome another movie.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Yeah, I want another one too, Tony just to make sure that the franchise can't get that bad. But no Singer X-( . This was over his head whether he'll ever admit to it or not on his deathbed that he loused up this project...
X-Men is one thing but Superman is on a much higher tier; sorry but that's my DC bias kicking in.
What on earth ever made you think that I was implying Nolan? ;%
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
do I have this straight:
the director of superman 1 began making Superman 2,
was replaced midfilming, thus the version we've known all along has been a pastiche of 2 directors work, mostly the replacements
and that they are finally releasing a directors cut of what the oiginal director wanted to do?
I hadnt thought he'd filmed enough material to complete the film
btw Spacey was a much better Luthor than Hackman
the new Lois Lane was miscast and much too young
do I have this straight:
the director of superman 1 began making Superman 2,
was replaced midfilming, thus the version we've known all along has been a pastiche of 2 directors work, mostly the replacements
and that they are finally releasing a directors cut of what the oiginal director wanted to do?
Correct on all counts sir.
I hadnt thought he'd filmed enough material to complete the film
Right again. Some scenes were never filmed so this will not be 100% true to his vision (for example, I think they're actually using some footage from Reeve's and Kidder's screen tests to pad certain scenes out. But it will be pretty close, about as close as we ever get to what Donner really wanted.
btw Spacey was a much better Luthor than Hackman. the new Lois Lane was miscast and much too young
Neither Spacey nor Hackman were really true to the comic book version of Lex Luthor; but taken on their own merits I also enjoyed both.
Kate Bosworth was badly miscast as Lois and she had absolutely no chemistry whatsoever with any other cast member. I sincerely hope they do recast that role if there is a sequel.
its a shame that on the directors commentary for the new cut richard donner wont even mention the other guys name. I guess some things just cut too deep. still I cant wait to get my copy, and as for SR I liked it, o.k. the kid was a sh**y idea and it was a bit slow but it would be interesting to hear what someone who hadn't seen the originals thinks
btw Spacey was a much better Luthor than Hackman
the new Lois Lane was miscast and much too young
I disagree. I think that Hackman was a much better Luthor than Spacey, who IMO gave the worst performance in Superman Returns. Kate Bosworth wasn't great, but I don't think she was nearly as bad as alot of people say she was. Spacey, on the other hand, was IMO much worse than people give him credit for.
BTW, thanks Tony for answering my question. {[]
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
btw Spacey was a much better Luthor than Hackman
the new Lois Lane was miscast and much too young
I disagree. I think that Hackman was a much better Luthor than Spacey, who IMO gave the worst performance in Superman Returns. Kate Bosworth wasn't great, but I don't think she was nearly as bad as alot of people say she was. Spacey, on the other hand, was IMO much worse than people give him credit for.
BTW, thanks Tony for answering my question. {[]
My pleasure Dan, any time at all.
I think Spacey was handcuffed to a certain degree in how he could play Luthor. Since this was largely a sequel to the 1978 movie, he was pretty much forced to use that performance as a guide, although he did make him a little more malevolent than Hackman. Also, Spacey was hurt by the fact that (1.) he really didn't have all that much screen time and (2.) he had very few scenes with either Superman or Lois Lane. Bryan Singer shot around Spacey's schedule, he was ony available to the production for a limited time and it shows in the finished product to a certain degree.
As for Bosworth, not once did I see Lois Lane in her performance. Whereas Margot Kidder was a feisty reporter always getting into trouble and actually conveying some genuine emotion in her scenes with Christopher Reeve, Bosworth was more of a spoiled high school prom queen with an attitude. She was at turns petulantly angry or schoolgirl lovestruck, but she never came across as an actual individual and never really did anything other than drive around from one location to another.
Also, turning her into a concerned mother made the character even more alien and urecognizeable relative to the previous movies and her 4 color counterpart; it makes her about as far removed from Lois Lane, ace reporter as you can possibly get and really shows that Singer never got the essence of her character at all.
Finally, the fact that just about everyone but her had some physical resemblance their respective characters from the 1978 movie makes her stick out like a sore thumb even more.
Boy, I must really sound bitter. I guess by now you must know what scenes I'll be fast-forwarding over when I get the DVD.
My major problem with Spacey, and why I would single him out as the worst performer in SR, is that he had no sense of fun. Yes, he's more malevolent than Hackman, but what Hackman understood is that Lex Luther is a character who is so exaggerated (pure evil, criminal mastermind) that he must be balanced with a great sense of fun. I'm not suggesting that Luthor should be a clown, but I don't think that is how Hackman played him. Spacey, on the other hand, played him as if he were some generic thug. In fact, the only time he seemed to revell in playing this master criminal was in the first scene when he took off his wig and gave it to the little girl. Other than that, his performance absolutely bored me. Bosworth also wasn't great but at least she's pretty good looking. Plus her performance didn't bore me to death in the same way that Spacey's did.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
both Luthor and Lois are characters that have changed over and over again over the last ~70years
HackmanLuthor was like a TVBatman villain, but not really like any version from the comics
as originally written by Siegel&Shuster,
Lois was a Katharine Hepburn type
a tuff-as-nails career woman outcompeting the men in a mans world (the bigcity newsroom)
she got into trouble frequently and required Supermans help because she took so many risks to get her story
the dolllike waif in the new film conveyed none of that
of course by the 1950s Lois was a husbandtrapping pest, always trying to figure out Supermans identity and trick him into marrying her
for me, definitive Lois Lane was as portrayed in the early40 Flesicher cartoons
Luthor was introduced as some sort of armsdealer, profiteering off of unnecesary wars stoked deliberately so he could sell to both sides (he also originally had hair)
by the 1950s hed become this gadgetinventing mad scientist, always dressed in the same purple and green costume
as early as 1940 though (shortly after going bald) he started doing this Neitzche-esque thing,
repeatedly challenging Superman to match as the representive of human ingenuity vs what he called an unwanted, alien interloper in human affairs
I know recent DC comics, eg Kingdom Come (with the Mankind Liberation Front, or whatever they were called) have used this version of Luthor,
and I think the recent movie is playing with this Jesus vs Nietzche image
Kevin Spacey (Mr Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil) is perfectly cast for that sort of angle, but the script sort of let him down: his scheme to rule the world was a bit too preposterous to support all the intended philosophical baggage
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
I just bought Death of Superman, the comic, and was shocked by how... unimaginative it was. I'll have to read it again, but I wasn't blown away by it. I WAS blown away by Marvel Secret Wars, which I picked up at the same time, though. I may turn into a Marvel fan (as opposed to a DC fan)... even though Bats will always be my fave.
I just bought Death of Superman, the comic, and was shocked by how... unimaginative it was. I'll have to read it again, but I wasn't blown away by it. I WAS blown away by Marvel Secret Wars, which I picked up at the same time, though. I may turn into a Marvel fan (as opposed to a DC fan)... even though Bats will always be my fave.
The whole Death of Superman thing was an "event" but as a story, yeah it was pretty lame and there were a lot of contrivances. Having Doomsday rip apart the Justice League in about 20 seconds was absurdly unrealistic (kinda rendered all of them pretty useless right then and there) and you never even find out who or what Doomsday is (that happens in later books). I also love how all of the "big guns" of the DC Universe are noticably absent during the final conflict.
But I guess all that was secondary; the only purpose of the book was to take Superman out of the picture for a few months so that people would miss him and hopefully spike sales (which had been sagging pretty badly) up again.
The subsequent storyline, Reign of the Supermen, was much better; especially the last few issues, including Green Lantern #46, wherein GL takes on Mongul in the remains of Coast City.
Superman/Doomsday: Hunter Prey is also a pretty good story with some good art to back it up and a pretty innovative ending.
Even better is Doomsday: Year 1, which contains assorted original Doomsday stories by several writers and artists.
Bringing this back to topic, it might be interesting to have Doomsday in a future Superman movie. I don't think he could be the main villain as he is little more than a mindless beast; but he could definitely work as a secondary character.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I have to remember, Night that you weren't even born perhaps when that story arc was published.
*shivers at the years that have gone by so fast*
But as Tony as said, it was an event. I mean it was all on CNN, Fox and other channels of how a big deal it was.
On top of that, I was one of the comic geeks standing in a long line outside a comic shop waiting to get my "one copy per person" issue in the black bag. Boy did they pull one over on me. 8-)
I mean LCSes everywhere were sticking up comic customers at ridiculous prices for first prints after they had supposedly "sold out".
I had dollar signs in my eyes hoping at the same time that he'd stay dead and really catapult the value....Youth... ;%
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Comments
It hasn't helped Warner that none of the six profitable movies it has released this year including "V for Vendetta" and "Superman Returns" has been a blockbuster. Horn said the half-dozen would make "from a lot to a little" money.
Horn declined to divulge figures, but a person familiar with the studio's internal projections said Warner's cut of the "Superman Returns" profit was expected to be $50 million to $60 million. The film cost $209 million to produce and more than $100 million to market worldwide.
Horn expects "Superman Returns" to eventually gross about $400 million worldwide, more than last year's hit "Batman Begins." Nonetheless, "Superman" fell at least $100 million short of his expectations.
"I thought it was a very successful movie, but I think it should have done $500 million worldwide," Horn said. "We should have had perhaps a little more action to satisfy the young male crowd."
Still, he's betting Warner has firmly reestablished the "Superman" franchise and is planning another installment for summer 2009.
Key word here... "betting" Doesn't sound very assuring does it? What else does one say if he's rubbing egg off of his face? The way this is worded sounds like his guess is as good as mine that Superman will be business as usual... 8-)
Just get rid of Singer, Bosworth and the kid and I can live with it. But I'll settle like Meatloaf for two outta three... that ain't bad.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Yes, Arthur, Kevin Smith's scripts lean towards very "fanboy" and don't necessarily appeal to the broader audiences it will take to rake in the mighty dollar. That's not to say that he couldn't compose the perfect balance it's just that I haven't read it yet.
GET PAUL DINI I say.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Ditch Superboy. Kill him off in the next one, it gives Superman a reason or motivation to be vengeful or tortured. Introduce a new villain this way, give him a big scene...
Or have Superboy exiled, framed or stuck in that spinning LP that Zod and co got trapped in, done by a returning Zod or something... or have him go to another world to save...
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I have a feeling that any chance Singer has of making another movie will hinge on his accepting the fact that most people didn't care for that plot thread and then coming up with a clever way of writing him out of future movies that will appeal to fans and the studio.
The movie continues to do well internationally; it's already taken in $170 million abroad and has yet to open in several key markets. It's overall take stands at $360 million and it will of course make even move with DVD sales and rentals.
Given those kinds of figures, I think there will be another Superman movie. The bigger question right now is who will be making it?
Too bad that in the international box office, the theatres get the majority of the take. I've read certain articles backing this claim up. I'll look for them...
That is why it was imperative that the film faired well domestically. They'll need DVD sales to be generous just to break even...
Here's an article:
http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/foreigndemyst.htm
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
http://dvd.ign.com/articles/735/735482p1.html
Oh, well...wishful thinking.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
It's coming out November 28 in the USA (same date as Superman Returns). Here's a link to Amazon's page for some more info:
http://www.amazon.com/Superman-II-Richard-Donner-Cut/dp/B000IJ79WU/sr=1-1/qid=1161197295/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-6402706-5095909?ie=UTF8&s=dvd
You never know Rogue, hope springs eternal. Maybe Singer will want to go back to X-Men since his ideas on Superman were not exactly embraced with open arms. But more importantly, does this mean you won't be buying the Superman Returns DVD?
I'll definitely be picking up both movies (Donner's Superman II and Superman Returns) when they're released. I'm really looking forward to finally getting Donner's vision of SII.
Despite RogueAgent's nearly religious condemnation of Superman Returns (
Take a wild guess.
My money will go towards the new Donner cut.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I'd read that WB was considering releasing Donner's two Superman movies theatrically before the DVD releases, but nothing ever came of it. Since the DVD will be coming out next month I don't think it will shown in a movie theater any time soon.
By the way, last time I checked Superman Returns was only about $200,000 shy of reaching the magic $200 million dollar mark in the USA; globally it has earned nearly $390 million. With those numbers we may yet get another Superman movie (hopefully without Singer and junior) in a few years.
A projection that should've been reached after 2-3 weeks of release. Word of mouth stalled this because it was a stale and dumb film...
Batman Begins had the opposite effect. Had we been able to get the bad taste of the Schumacher films out of our mouths, this would've made considerably more than it did so its slow but respectable take is warranted.
WB should carry on with a Supes folow-up but vote to fire Singer & his Lifetime Channel crew 8-).
Get a director that UNDERSTANDS and RESPECTS the mythos of Superman and conveys this to film without hacking material already covered during the Disco era. Any particular director come to mind?
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
A good director is important, but they need a good story first. They should get Paul Dini to write a treatment, and not dismiss it out of hand as they are likely to do because he isn't hot in Hollywood.
As for Superman Returns, for all its flaws, it does have some good moments: Routh is well cast, his rescue of the airplane and shuttle are great, I really liked Spacey's Luthor, and the final sequence with New Krypton is visually engaging. There's still plenty of stuff in there for me to enjoy.
You take the good with the bad; in this case I still think the good outweighs the bad and I for one would still welcome another movie.
X-Men is one thing but Superman is on a much higher tier; sorry but that's my DC bias kicking in.
What on earth ever made you think that I was implying Nolan? ;%
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
the director of superman 1 began making Superman 2,
was replaced midfilming, thus the version we've known all along has been a pastiche of 2 directors work, mostly the replacements
and that they are finally releasing a directors cut of what the oiginal director wanted to do?
I hadnt thought he'd filmed enough material to complete the film
btw Spacey was a much better Luthor than Hackman
the new Lois Lane was miscast and much too young
Correct on all counts sir.
Right again. Some scenes were never filmed so this will not be 100% true to his vision (for example, I think they're actually using some footage from Reeve's and Kidder's screen tests to pad certain scenes out. But it will be pretty close, about as close as we ever get to what Donner really wanted.
Neither Spacey nor Hackman were really true to the comic book version of Lex Luthor; but taken on their own merits I also enjoyed both.
Kate Bosworth was badly miscast as Lois and she had absolutely no chemistry whatsoever with any other cast member. I sincerely hope they do recast that role if there is a sequel.
www.scottacademymartialarts.co.uk
BTW, thanks Tony for answering my question. {[]
My pleasure Dan, any time at all.
I think Spacey was handcuffed to a certain degree in how he could play Luthor. Since this was largely a sequel to the 1978 movie, he was pretty much forced to use that performance as a guide, although he did make him a little more malevolent than Hackman. Also, Spacey was hurt by the fact that (1.) he really didn't have all that much screen time and (2.) he had very few scenes with either Superman or Lois Lane. Bryan Singer shot around Spacey's schedule, he was ony available to the production for a limited time and it shows in the finished product to a certain degree.
As for Bosworth, not once did I see Lois Lane in her performance. Whereas Margot Kidder was a feisty reporter always getting into trouble and actually conveying some genuine emotion in her scenes with Christopher Reeve, Bosworth was more of a spoiled high school prom queen with an attitude. She was at turns petulantly angry or schoolgirl lovestruck, but she never came across as an actual individual and never really did anything other than drive around from one location to another.
Also, turning her into a concerned mother made the character even more alien and urecognizeable relative to the previous movies and her 4 color counterpart; it makes her about as far removed from Lois Lane, ace reporter as you can possibly get and really shows that Singer never got the essence of her character at all.
Finally, the fact that just about everyone but her had some physical resemblance their respective characters from the 1978 movie makes her stick out like a sore thumb even more.
Boy, I must really sound bitter. I guess by now you must know what scenes I'll be fast-forwarding over when I get the DVD.
HackmanLuthor was like a TVBatman villain, but not really like any version from the comics
as originally written by Siegel&Shuster,
Lois was a Katharine Hepburn type
a tuff-as-nails career woman outcompeting the men in a mans world (the bigcity newsroom)
she got into trouble frequently and required Supermans help because she took so many risks to get her story
the dolllike waif in the new film conveyed none of that
of course by the 1950s Lois was a husbandtrapping pest, always trying to figure out Supermans identity and trick him into marrying her
for me, definitive Lois Lane was as portrayed in the early40 Flesicher cartoons
Luthor was introduced as some sort of armsdealer, profiteering off of unnecesary wars stoked deliberately so he could sell to both sides (he also originally had hair)
by the 1950s hed become this gadgetinventing mad scientist, always dressed in the same purple and green costume
as early as 1940 though (shortly after going bald) he started doing this Neitzche-esque thing,
repeatedly challenging Superman to match as the representive of human ingenuity vs what he called an unwanted, alien interloper in human affairs
I know recent DC comics, eg Kingdom Come (with the Mankind Liberation Front, or whatever they were called) have used this version of Luthor,
and I think the recent movie is playing with this Jesus vs Nietzche image
Kevin Spacey (Mr Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil) is perfectly cast for that sort of angle, but the script sort of let him down: his scheme to rule the world was a bit too preposterous to support all the intended philosophical baggage
The whole Death of Superman thing was an "event" but as a story, yeah it was pretty lame and there were a lot of contrivances. Having Doomsday rip apart the Justice League in about 20 seconds was absurdly unrealistic (kinda rendered all of them pretty useless right then and there) and you never even find out who or what Doomsday is (that happens in later books). I also love how all of the "big guns" of the DC Universe are noticably absent during the final conflict.
But I guess all that was secondary; the only purpose of the book was to take Superman out of the picture for a few months so that people would miss him and hopefully spike sales (which had been sagging pretty badly) up again.
The subsequent storyline, Reign of the Supermen, was much better; especially the last few issues, including Green Lantern #46, wherein GL takes on Mongul in the remains of Coast City.
Superman/Doomsday: Hunter Prey is also a pretty good story with some good art to back it up and a pretty innovative ending.
Even better is Doomsday: Year 1, which contains assorted original Doomsday stories by several writers and artists.
Bringing this back to topic, it might be interesting to have Doomsday in a future Superman movie. I don't think he could be the main villain as he is little more than a mindless beast; but he could definitely work as a secondary character.
*shivers at the years that have gone by so fast*
But as Tony as said, it was an event. I mean it was all on CNN, Fox and other channels of how a big deal it was.
On top of that, I was one of the comic geeks standing in a long line outside a comic shop waiting to get my "one copy per person" issue in the black bag. Boy did they pull one over on me. 8-)
I mean LCSes everywhere were sticking up comic customers at ridiculous prices for first prints after they had supposedly "sold out".
I had dollar signs in my eyes hoping at the same time that he'd stay dead and really catapult the value....Youth... ;%
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -