To be honest I haven't read it yet; most of my comic budget goes to DC titles and indies. Very seldom a Marvel title.
From the ones I know in comics, the reaction has been mixed on SWs.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
It is no The Dark Night Returns, but it is still really good. It has some great "oh, sh*t, how're they gonna get out of this one" points, too. Plus Dr. Doom is ridiculously crazy.
To be honest I haven't read it yet; most of my comic budget goes to DC titles and indies. Very seldom a Marvel title.
From the ones I know in comics, the reaction has been mixed on SWs.
SWs: Great art...but really lacking in any compelling story. Marvel's original 12-part Secret Wars Limited Series was so much more enjoyable...and particularly noteworthy for the first appearance of Spidey's black symbiote costume!
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
Wait- what is the difference between Secret Wars Limited and SWs?
The one I just read was the first appearance of black costume spidey as well...
Wait- what is the difference between Secret Wars Limited and SWs?
The one I just read was the first appearance of black costume spidey as well...
Actually, I think you and Darenhat are both talking about the same book. I read it as well and it was one of the better Marvel crossover efforts. Dr. Doom really stole the show for me. He was at his egomaniacal best (or worst, depending on your point of view). I always loved how Doom referred to himself in the 3rd person: "Doom will not be defeated"; "Doom has gone to far to turn back now"; "Doom will have a ham sandwich".
Secret Wars was basically Marvel's answer to DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths mega-crossover. Never one to be outdone, Marvel had to show that it could also produce an "event" comic that spanned all its books.
There was a sequel to Secret Wars released several years after the original. I never read it (haven't been able to find a copy) but the reviews were not as good as the first one and it was quickly forgotten.
The film did finally crack $200 million in the US; the only negative is that it took so long to reach that magic number. It has also made over $390 million worldwide. Here's a page with its box office breakdown:
The next major test, and one that will no doubt also have bearing on whether there is a sequel, is how well the movie does on home video. It's being released on November 28 and I'm sure WB will be monitoring its sales and rentals very closely.
As for a proposed sequel, I had heard 2009 but if they can bring it out sooner, I'm all for that.
The film did finally crack $200 million in the US; the only negative is that it took so long to reach that magic number. It has also made over $390 million worldwide. Here's a page with its box office breakdown:
The next major test, and one that will no doubt also have bearing on whether there is a sequel, is how well the movie does on home video. It's being released on November 28 and I'm sure WB will be monitoring its sales and rentals very closely.
As for a proposed sequel, I had heard 2009 but if they can bring it out sooner, I'm all for that.
It's kind of hard to believe that a film can make nearly a quarter of a billion dollars and be viewed as a bit of a disappointment. I haven't seen it yet, but I plan to. The studios need to give audiences time to see these movies.
The film did finally crack $200 million in the US; the only negative is that it took so long to reach that magic number. It has also made over $390 million worldwide. Here's a page with its box office breakdown:
The next major test, and one that will no doubt also have bearing on whether there is a sequel, is how well the movie does on home video. It's being released on November 28 and I'm sure WB will be monitoring its sales and rentals very closely.
As for a proposed sequel, I had heard 2009 but if they can bring it out sooner, I'm all for that.
It's kind of hard to believe that a film can make nearly a quarter of a billion dollars and be viewed as a bit of a disappointment. I haven't seen it yet, but I plan to. The studios need to give audiences time to see these movies.
It's kind of hard to believe that a film can make nearly a quarter of a billion dollars and be viewed as a bit of a disappointment. I haven't seen it yet, but I plan to. The studios need to give audiences time to see these movies.
It is hard to discern how the studio mind works. Part of Superman Returns' problem was it's incredibly high budget (anywhere from $200 - $250 million before advertising depending on different sources).
Many years ago, I'd read an article about what Hollywood viewed as a profitable movie. The general rule of thumb was that a movie had to earn twice what it cost to be considered profitable. This was when Star Trek: The Motion Picture was about to premiere. It cost the (at the time) unheard of amount of $45 million to make and many people doubted if it could recoup its costs. Fortunately, it went on to make around $100 million and reignited the Trek franchise.
These days, the equations are obviously more complicated due to the increased importance of home video sales and rentals and the bigger foreign market. But I wonder if the studios still use that 2X multiplier as a benchmark of success.
then theres the thing where if a film doesnt set a record on the opening weekend its deemed a failure
I know airbody here is planning on seeing CR as soon as it opens, but is that normal?
do normal folks only go to movies that open in the last week?
are films that have been in the theatre more than a week considered old news and not worth bothering with?
given this expectation, no film can grow by word of mouth, which is why every ssingle film these days is a sequel or a remake or based on a video game
and why do they spend $250million making a film anyway?
you could feed a good chunk of Africa for that moeny
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
It's kind of hard to believe that a film can make nearly a quarter of a billion dollars and be viewed as a bit of a disappointment. I haven't seen it yet, but I plan to. The studios need to give audiences time to see these movies.
Warner doesn't pocket all of that money domestically and even less from overseas ticket sales. Yeah it's a disappoinment, figuratively and financially. It had ample enough time (June 28th) to make 220m doubled and then some. It's time to Christmas shop now and it's just getting there. It was too anemic an outing and I'm tired of some fanboys saying that if it weren't for PIRATES that it would've fared better. Not true.
I'm all for another Superman film; just change the captain at the helm and inject some testosterone to it. God, at this point, I'd rather see if old man Donner still has a little in the tank left...
I remember, Highhopes, when STAR WARS stayed in theatres for almost an entire year. Bear in mind, of course, before all homes owned a VCR and Blockbuster chains. As I'm sure you already know, the studios reap the true rewards from DVDs which they pocket the majority of the profits.
Movies are soooo milked to death nowadays for audiences not to see them. It's constantly thrust in our faces...
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
The most pre-determined fight in comics history IMO. X-(
One also has to take into account that the WB had to drag Superman domestically to $200m kicking and screaming. They gave by several reports enormously lopsided percentages to the theaters in the last weeks just so the theaters would keep playing it, and as soon as it reached 200 it was yanked from most remaining theaters. So they didn't make much more money after it hit say 180-190 but for appearances sake they wanted that $200m mark.
As for what a film has to do to be profitable now. Studio revenue worldwide averages only 17.9% from theatrical releases as of 2003. (as oppossed to 1948 when it was 100% and 1980 when it was 50%) That percentage of course varies according to productions and it's harder for a blockbuster to get that kind of multiplier a smaller film can get in "ancillary" revenue.
Anyhow, back to the film -- for anyone that hasn't already seen it. Here is Abrahms original Superman script that was kiboshed by WB after that negative AICN review.
I'm pretty sure there are more scenes. For one, the way in which Lois discovers that Clark is Superman is vastly different from Lester's original version. I've also read that there will be about 15 minutes of new footage with Brando as Jor-El.
I've also read elsewhere that some of the scenes are from Christopher Reeve's and Margot Kidder's screen tests since no equivalent footage was ever shot or survives. As such, there will be the occasional scene where hairdos don't match and where the film quality will dip. I don't think it'll be realistic to expect a 100% polished movie, but more a document of what Donner was going for. I'm fine with that but caveat emptor.
I showed those clips to my kid and he thought that Lester deserved a firing squad for not allowing these sequences. )
He particularly thought that Supes punch was awesome.
I wanted Lester's head on a platter when I saw his original opening credits to Superman III with the ditzy blonde and all the sight gags. It went slapstick from literally the first frame ... and then things got worse.
As for the new scenes from Superman II, the FX look a little coarse (hardly surprising since the footage is almost 30 years old) but I'm still looking forward to it a lot. The scenes with Zod & Co. seem to have a much darker vibe than the corresponding stuff in the original; although it looks like Lex is as campy as ever.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
edited November 2006
Has anyone heard that WB perhaps padded the box office numbers for SR just to misguide the theatres into running it longer in their establishments? I remember reading an article about 2 weeks ago, I can't recall where or who, stating this speculation...
Prior to it reaching 200 mil, I noticed that the theatre count went from 150+ in September to almost 400 last month (sorry for not being on a dime with the numbers). Whether they were accurate reports or not, I found that fishy.
I live in the suburbs of a major city and SR was nowhere to be found; not even at the buck shows.
I know that studios do smoke and mirrors all of the time with their projects but talk about desperation here. There is still the chance that this film didn't attain its goal domestically and we'll never know...
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Actually Rogue, MBE_ wrote about that five or so posts up. Studios are run by weasels who will do whatever they can to protect their jobs and advance their agenda. For all its troubles SR was still the highest grossing movie for WB this summer (at least I think it was) and one of the few relatively bright spots in an otherwise dismal season (can anyone say Posiedon?). Superman is also viewed as one of their premier franchises. It stands to reason that they'd want to prop it up as much as possible.
You really need to let go of all this hate over SR. Hate leads to anger, anger leads to suffering, suffering leads to the dark side.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Please tell me those young onlookers won't need counselling one day. )
Poor younglings, they can hardly suspect the cruel fate that awaits them. Notice also the round training droids on the green alien surface in the background. )
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
)
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Comments
To be honest I haven't read it yet; most of my comic budget goes to DC titles and indies. Very seldom a Marvel title.
From the ones I know in comics, the reaction has been mixed on SWs.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
SWs: Great art...but really lacking in any compelling story. Marvel's original 12-part Secret Wars Limited Series was so much more enjoyable...and particularly noteworthy for the first appearance of Spidey's black symbiote costume!
The one I just read was the first appearance of black costume spidey as well...
Actually, I think you and Darenhat are both talking about the same book. I read it as well and it was one of the better Marvel crossover efforts. Dr. Doom really stole the show for me. He was at his egomaniacal best (or worst, depending on your point of view). I always loved how Doom referred to himself in the 3rd person: "Doom will not be defeated"; "Doom has gone to far to turn back now"; "Doom will have a ham sandwich".
Secret Wars was basically Marvel's answer to DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths mega-crossover. Never one to be outdone, Marvel had to show that it could also produce an "event" comic that spanned all its books.
There was a sequel to Secret Wars released several years after the original. I never read it (haven't been able to find a copy) but the reviews were not as good as the first one and it was quickly forgotten.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=superman06.htm
The next major test, and one that will no doubt also have bearing on whether there is a sequel, is how well the movie does on home video. It's being released on November 28 and I'm sure WB will be monitoring its sales and rentals very closely.
As for a proposed sequel, I had heard 2009 but if they can bring it out sooner, I'm all for that.
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/30528
It's kind of hard to believe that a film can make nearly a quarter of a billion dollars and be viewed as a bit of a disappointment. I haven't seen it yet, but I plan to. The studios need to give audiences time to see these movies.
It's kind of hard to believe that a film can make nearly a quarter of a billion dollars and be viewed as a bit of a disappointment. I haven't seen it yet, but I plan to. The studios need to give audiences time to see these movies.
It is hard to discern how the studio mind works. Part of Superman Returns' problem was it's incredibly high budget (anywhere from $200 - $250 million before advertising depending on different sources).
Many years ago, I'd read an article about what Hollywood viewed as a profitable movie. The general rule of thumb was that a movie had to earn twice what it cost to be considered profitable. This was when Star Trek: The Motion Picture was about to premiere. It cost the (at the time) unheard of amount of $45 million to make and many people doubted if it could recoup its costs. Fortunately, it went on to make around $100 million and reignited the Trek franchise.
These days, the equations are obviously more complicated due to the increased importance of home video sales and rentals and the bigger foreign market. But I wonder if the studios still use that 2X multiplier as a benchmark of success.
I know airbody here is planning on seeing CR as soon as it opens, but is that normal?
do normal folks only go to movies that open in the last week?
are films that have been in the theatre more than a week considered old news and not worth bothering with?
given this expectation, no film can grow by word of mouth, which is why every ssingle film these days is a sequel or a remake or based on a video game
and why do they spend $250million making a film anyway?
you could feed a good chunk of Africa for that moeny
Warner doesn't pocket all of that money domestically and even less from overseas ticket sales. Yeah it's a disappoinment, figuratively and financially. It had ample enough time (June 28th) to make 220m doubled and then some. It's time to Christmas shop now and it's just getting there. It was too anemic an outing and I'm tired of some fanboys saying that if it weren't for PIRATES that it would've fared better. Not true.
I'm all for another Superman film; just change the captain at the helm and inject some testosterone to it. God, at this point, I'd rather see if old man Donner still has a little in the tank left...
I remember, Highhopes, when STAR WARS stayed in theatres for almost an entire year. Bear in mind, of course, before all homes owned a VCR and Blockbuster chains. As I'm sure you already know, the studios reap the true rewards from DVDs which they pocket the majority of the profits.
Movies are soooo milked to death nowadays for audiences not to see them. It's constantly thrust in our faces...
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0VNjribyY&mode=related&search=
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
As for what a film has to do to be profitable now. Studio revenue worldwide averages only 17.9% from theatrical releases as of 2003. (as oppossed to 1948 when it was 100% and 1980 when it was 50%) That percentage of course varies according to productions and it's harder for a blockbuster to get that kind of multiplier a smaller film can get in "ancillary" revenue.
Anyhow, back to the film -- for anyone that hasn't already seen it. Here is Abrahms original Superman script that was kiboshed by WB after that negative AICN review.
http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/Superman(JJAbrams).pdf
MBE
Perhaps there will be more on the disc but this is all that's offered for now.
http://media.dvd.ign.com/media/844/844345/vids_1.html
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I'm pretty sure there are more scenes. For one, the way in which Lois discovers that Clark is Superman is vastly different from Lester's original version. I've also read that there will be about 15 minutes of new footage with Brando as Jor-El.
I've also read elsewhere that some of the scenes are from Christopher Reeve's and Margot Kidder's screen tests since no equivalent footage was ever shot or survives. As such, there will be the occasional scene where hairdos don't match and where the film quality will dip. I don't think it'll be realistic to expect a 100% polished movie, but more a document of what Donner was going for. I'm fine with that but caveat emptor.
-{
He particularly thought that Supes punch was awesome.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I wanted Lester's head on a platter when I saw his original opening credits to Superman III with the ditzy blonde and all the sight gags. It went slapstick from literally the first frame ... and then things got worse.
As for the new scenes from Superman II, the FX look a little coarse (hardly surprising since the footage is almost 30 years old) but I'm still looking forward to it a lot. The scenes with Zod & Co. seem to have a much darker vibe than the corresponding stuff in the original; although it looks like Lex is as campy as ever.
Prior to it reaching 200 mil, I noticed that the theatre count went from 150+ in September to almost 400 last month (sorry for not being on a dime with the numbers). Whether they were accurate reports or not, I found that fishy.
I live in the suburbs of a major city and SR was nowhere to be found; not even at the buck shows.
I know that studios do smoke and mirrors all of the time with their projects but talk about desperation here. There is still the chance that this film didn't attain its goal domestically and we'll never know...
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
You really need to let go of all this hate over SR. Hate leads to anger, anger leads to suffering, suffering leads to the dark side.
I'm sorry, Tony...."but the Dark Side is stroooonnnngg in me."
"Now, young TonyDP...Superman Returns must die."
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
You gotta love those fanboys.
Please tell me those young onlookers won't need counselling one day.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Poor younglings, they can hardly suspect the cruel fate that awaits them.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -