Spectreisland and I plan on seeing it tomorrow as well. In fact, I feel a slight cold coming on...cough, cough...think I'm gonna have to...atchoo...call in sick...wouldn't want to...cough...infect any of my co-workers.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Planning on going with my son to check out the early 10:00 show here tomorrow.
Why do I get the feeling that dozens of comic geeks are thinking like me? ?:)
Better get there by 9:00 to be safe.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I can't wait to see it. I'll be going on the weekend (either by myself or with my father, should he back from a business trip in time). Every time there's a film out that I really want to see, I always see it on opening weekend. Superman is not as big a priority for me as some other films being released this year, so I can afford to wait an extra day or two to see it (if I don't see it on Saturday night). But I'll certainly have seen it by this time next week. I really can't wait!
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I did not like this movie.... X-(
On the plus side, Routh, Spacey & Marsden were excellent in their respective parts.
Routh may not make many forget about Reeve's donning of the crimson cape and maybe that's a good thing. Well, I know it's a good thing but I thought that he did a superb job with what he had to work with.
Spacey's Luthor was dark with subtle spices of campiness here and there.
Bosworth's Lane was...meh...
The problem that I had with the picture was that the script/direction was just toooooo Lifetime Channel. Just too teary and lumpy-throated....and of course, I did not like the kid being put into the equation.
Also not decent closure to this film...damn you, Singer! I want my money back!
ALL HAIL BATMAN BEGINS!!!!
I've got a feeling that it won't be knocked off too quickly by this DC attempt.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Just got back from seeing this myself and my feelings are a little mixed; some things I loved and some things...meh. Warning: minor spoilers below.
The Good
- Brandon Routh was absolutely perfect as Superman and Clark Kent. He displayed a quiet, dignified strength as Supes and a likeable vulnerability as Kent. His performance was absolutely spot on for me and he won me over in about 2 minutes.
- Kevin Spacey hit one out of the park as Lex Luthor. He was at turns funny, sinister and downright evil. His scenes with Kitty were great and when it came time to take his frustrations out on Superman he really shined.
- The effects were phenomenal. The flying scenes were 100% believable and seeing Superman's powers in action (especially his heat vision) was a lot of fun.
- The homages to the first film (such as the look of Krypton, the lines lifted from Superman I, the music, and the opening credits) really gave the movie a nostalgic feel and truly made it a sequel to the 1978 movie.
- James Marsden was very likeable as Richard White (although I think his character could have easily been removed from the screenplay). Jimmy Olsen and Perry White were also very well realized.
The Not So Good
- Kate Bosworth was utterly forgettable as Lois Lane and came across completely flat in all of her interactions. She had no chemistry at all with her son, Richard or Superman; her scenes with Clark were even worse. She came across as a petulant jilted girlfriend and then a lovestruck teenager; never a plucky reporter. The worst piece of casting by far, she isn't even a pale shadow of Margot Kidder.
- The child angle was unnecessary and needlessly complicated the mythos for me. Even though it led to one of the most touching scenes in the movie I really think Superman is better off as a single, unattached superhero. There's a reason he's the last son of Krypton.
- The removal of the scenes where Superman explores the remains of Krypton was a big disappointment. I would have gladly given up 20 minutes of character exposition to see those scenes.
- The crisis is something of a rehash of the original movie (another real estate scheme courtesy of Lex, albeit a much bigger one).
Overall, I think the movie was a little too long and spent too much time on the secondary characters. If you removed Richard White and the kid you'd have a much leaner movie, more watchable movie IMHO.
I'm glad I saw it, I'll probably see the Imax version, and I'll definitely pick up the DVD. But it's nowhere near as good as the 1978 version. I'd give it about a 7/10.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Boy, Tony...were you generous! 8-)
Let me ask you...whatever happened to that memory-wipe scene from Supes 2? For all that Lois knew about being with child, she could have been the second coming of Mary.
Yes, and Bosworth was utterly forgettable.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Let me ask you...whatever happened to that memory-wipe scene from Supes 2? For all that Lois knew about being with child, she could have been the second coming of Mary.
Yes, and Bosworth was utterly forgettable.
Yeah that bugged me too. How could she know the kid was Superman's but not know Kent and Superman were the same person? Pretty selective memory wipe there and definitely a very big loose thread.
I guess for me the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. And after the forgettable Superboy, the awful Lois and Clark and the misguided Smallville (to me if Supes doesn't wear the costume, he isn't Supes) and least this one looked like the Superman I remember.
What can I say, I'm feeling generous today (skipping work always does that to me).
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
This film lost me right after the plane rescue sequence which I thought was awesome.
I just hate the direction of where Singer is taking these characters.
The sequel should open on a taut, Juvenile Court scene between Supes and Lois. 8-)
Singer just made the Morally-correct, corny-All-American, apple pie eyed Supes into a guy who has kids out of wedlock... Bravo.
Had to explain that part to my kid...
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I agree that Singer may not be the best guy to direct these movies. His penchant for character moments leads to some awkward and problematic situations.
If I were doing the sequel to SR, the first thing I'd do is haul junior off to the Kent farm so he can learn to deal with his new powers discreetly and off screen.
I'd also get a foe who is a physical match for Superman. Lifting newborn continents and stopping jetplanes is all well and good but at some point he needs to roll up his sleeves and have a good knock down, drag out brawl with somebody.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I agree that Singer may not be the best guy to direct these movies. His penchant for character moments leads to some awkward and problematic situations.
If I were doing the sequel to SR, the first thing I'd do is haul junior off to the Kent farm so he can learn to deal with his new powers discreetly and off screen.
I'd also get a foe who is a physical match for Superman. Lifting newborn continents and stopping jetplanes is all well and good but at some point he needs to roll up his sleeves and have a good knock down, drag out brawl with somebody.
Agree TOTALLY.
Not once did I see Superman so much as spit at a criminal much less slug one. Not much testosterone going on in this film when the Man Of Steel supposedly exudes it...
Darkseid anyone?
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I really wish WB would get Paul Dini or some of the guys from the JLU show to write a movie; I guarantee they wouldn't weigh it down with all that melodrama.
And say what you want about Brett Rattner and X3, but at least he delivered an entertaining actionfest and didn't get mired in relationships and other Lifetime network cliches.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
And say what you want about Brett Rattner and X3, but at least he delivered an entertaining actionfest and didn't get mired in relationships and other Lifetime network cliches.
This film was so Lifetime-themed that I was expecting Meredith Baxter to make a cameo appearance any minute. )
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,707MI6 Agent
I really wish WB would get Paul Dini or some of the guys from the JLU show to write a movie; I guarantee they wouldn't weigh it down with all that melodrama.
It'd probably be rejected out of hand for not being like something Richard Donner had made previously.
It all comes down to story and at that level,I think all of the Superman movies have been deficient in various ways.The first film's good, but it alters Luthor into a bald standup comedian (with a limited concept of how to use his reputed genius) more suited to the Adam West "Batman" TV series than as the villain in a real Superman adventure.It's Christopher Reeve's sincere performance and uncanny resemblance to the Man of Steel that really makes it work.
The second film is better if only because Superman has adversaries who are supposed to be his equals.Unfortunately,Lex is still around laughing it up.
From what I understand based upon interviews and articles about SR,Singer's sole point of reference for SR is the Donner Superman movie and portions of S2.Not much else.Certainly not anything from the comic books.
One of the reasons the Spider-Man films have done so well,is--IMO--because the screenwriters for them are not hired guns but are actually fans of the character,and who've even read the comic book.And there's Sam Raimi who's another fan of the Spider-Man comics.That these movies have clever storylines with interesting crowd-pleasing moments should come as no surprise.Unlike say,all of the Batman movies which are largely Batman in name only.Only Batman Begins got it right--but then only the people behind Batman Begins are really familiar with their source material.They wrote and cast accordingly.
The Phantom worked because the screenwriter based his screenplay on the comic strip's "Air Pirates" storyline and most of the film was well cast and took itself seriously enough.
The Flash TV series worked because the producers and writers made an effort to bring key elements from the comic book to the screen.There were alterations made but nothing major.
Heck,I think Lois and Clark succeeds occasionally.Obviously a few of the people at the top at least had a passing knowledge of the comic books.Overall the cast looked right and I think Lane Smith was the best actor to play Perry White "Great Shades of Elvis" and all,and I've been a fan of the Superman comics since 1954.IMO this show also had the best Ma and Pa Kent and the only actress who really looked like Lois Lane as Lois.As Superman,Dean Cain resembled Captain Marvel--but he looked exactly like the John Byrne version of Clark Kent and gave good performances in both guises.The stories were limited but eventually somebody realized L&C was a Superman show and we got to see Kal-El kick butt from time to time.John Shea's Luthor was much closer to the mark than Hackman ever was and happily,he wasn't always around.
It shouldn't be impossible to make a great Superman movie.But if the proposed sequel is just another salute to the first Donner film with more elements from the second one tossed in,then Superman's potential is being ignored and that's damn shame.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited June 2006
I actually enjoyed it quite a lot, for the most part. Routh is fantastic, IMHO---practically channelling the late great Christopher Reeve at points, he still manages to make it his own. The effects sequences were whopping great fun, and I admit I enjoyed the rush I felt when the opening credits splayed across the screen... B-)
This film is far more faithful to S1 and S2 than it is to the books---thus, IMHO this film shares many assets and liabilities with these two forebears...neither of which were flawless, by a long shot.
It's fair to quibble with the Superman/Lois relationship here, as to me this is the most problematic aspect of the picture, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to equate it with Chick Television. As for the kid, well...not sure where they intend to go with that...
Spacey's Luthor is a lot of fun, but he remains essentially the same zany real estate opportunist (albeit with outlandish methods) that Donner gave us in the Seventies. I hope we go bigger and badder with the villains next time round---Apocalypse, Braniac?---and just keep Lex on the island for a while...:D
I will see this one again on the big screen, and my review will become more extensive as I continue to process...
If you like Superman, go see it. It's great summer fun.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Singer just made the Morally-correct, corny-All-American, apple pie eyed Supes into a guy who has kids out of wedlock... Bravo.
Had to explain that part to my kid...
Better to explain, IMHO, that Clark and Lois shouldn't have had irresponsible, out of wedlock sex in S2 to begin with, which has hardly been a secret since 1982... {:)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
From what I understand based upon interviews and articles about SR,Singer's sole point of reference for SR is the Donner Superman movie and portions of S2.Not much else.Certainly not anything from the comic books.
Actually, there were a few references from the comics in SR. I caught references to Alex Ross's and Mark Waid's work (especially Peace on Earth) and one scene is clearly a homage to Superman's first appearance in Action Comics. Some of the final scenes had a "Death of Superman" vibe to them as well. There was also a subtle little nod to Arthur C. Clarke that I absolutely loved (I think I was the only one in the theater who got that one). Although you're right that Superman I is clearly the major inspiration for this movie.
I've pretty much resigned myself that these films will never be completely faithful to the source material they're based on (even Batman Begins took some liberties with Batman's origin and his look and the Spiderman movies aren't introducing Gwen Stacy until after Peter and MJ have cemented their relationship). The studios will always have reservations about guys running around in tights and the filmmakers will always have the urge to put their personal stamp on everything they make. It's a compromise and some movies are more compromised than others.
Overall, I enjoyed Superman Returns but some of Singer's creative decisions just complicated the story and the mythos needlessly for me. But despite my reservations and disappointments, I still give it a thumbs up. It's heart was definitely in the right place.
Singer just made the Morally-correct, corny-All-American, apple pie eyed Supes into a guy who has kids out of wedlock... Bravo.
Had to explain that part to my kid...
Better to explain, IMHO, that Clark and Lois shouldn't have had irresponsible, out of wedlock sex in S2 to begin with, which has hardly been a secret since 1982... {:)
I'm also certain that a boy scout do gooder like Superman would not have left Earth and would have done the right thing if he had known that Lois was pregnant.
That got me thinking though. When Supes and Lois got it on in S2, Superman had renounced his powers and had been converted to a mere mortal. If that's the case, then how can Jason have superpowers?
I think I've just crossed over into the Fanboy zone.
From what I understand based upon interviews and articles about SR,Singer's sole point of reference for SR is the Donner Superman movie and portions of S2.Not much else.Certainly not anything from the comic books.
Actually, there were a few references from the comics in SR. I caught references to Alex Ross's and Mark Waid's work (especially Peace on Earth) and one scene is clearly a homage to Superman's first appearance in Action Comics. Some of the final scenes had a "Death of Superman" vibe to them as well. There was also a subtle little nod to Arthur C. Clarke that I absolutely loved (I think I was the only one in the theater who got that one). Although you're right that Superman I is clearly the major inspiration for this movie.
I've pretty much resigned myself that these films will never be completely faithful to the source material they're based on (even Batman Begins took some liberties with Batman's origin and his look and the Spiderman movies aren't introducing Gwen Stacy until after Peter and MJ have cemented their relationship). The studios will always have reservations about guys running around in tights and the filmmakers will always have the urge to put their personal stamp on everything they make. It's a compromise and some movies are more compromised than others.
Overall, I enjoyed Superman Returns but some of Singer's creative decisions just complicated the story and the mythos needlessly for me. But despite my reservations and disappointments, I still give it a thumbs up. It's heart was definitely in the right place.
Singer just made the Morally-correct, corny-All-American, apple pie eyed Supes into a guy who has kids out of wedlock... Bravo.
Had to explain that part to my kid...
Better to explain, IMHO, that Clark and Lois shouldn't have had irresponsible, out of wedlock sex in S2 to begin with, which has hardly been a secret since 1982... {:)
I'm also certain that a boy scout do gooder like Superman would not have left Earth and would have done the right thing if he had known that Lois was pregnant.
That got me thinking though. When Supes and Lois got it on in S2, Superman had renounced his powers and had been converted to a mere mortal. If that's the case, then how can Jason have superpowers?
I think I've just crossed over into the Fanboy zone.
) Looks like it.Maybe Lois never really forgot about her special night in the Fortress with the briefly depowered Man of Steel and that magical amnesia kiss didn't work after all.She may simply have pretended it did out of love for Superman.
I caught the Action Comics #1 cover pose and the Peace on Earth allusions too.But yeah,despite such touches films like these are always compromised because very few American filmmakers are comfortable with people running around in costumes unless they're making historical movies-- and even those aren't made very often.And when they are, there are almost always some modern components added(the upcoming Marie Antoinette with it's rock 'n roll soundtrack,for example).But out of necessity or because the director and the costume designer want to make their mark,a superhero's costume is nearly always altered and/or revised.Most of them,however--with the possible exception of the X-Men's togs--generally remain recognizable to some degree.The duds of the most iconic characters usually aren't fooled with too much(aside from the 2 Captain America TV pilot movies and the Cathy Lee Crosby Wonder Woman pilot).That's not terrible.As noted,these movies aren't made for the fanboys alone but also for the general audiences--some of whom would never go near a comic book even if they were offered money to do so.
Singer greatly respects what Richard Donner achieved in the past and the Donner/Tom Mankeiwicz version of Superman is his favorite interpretation of the character.SR isn't a bad film at all,it's good looking and well-acted.The storyline's weak in places, but overall it does exactly what it set out to accomplish and sets the stage for at least one sequel.
And yes,I definitely intend to buy the extended Director's Cut version of the Superman Returns DVD.I liked this film--with a few reservations--but I liked it nonetheless.
But out of necessity or because the director and the costume designer want to make their mark,a superhero's costume is nearly always altered and/or revised.Most of them,however--with the possible exception of the X-Men's togs--generally remain recognizable to some degree.The duds of the most iconic characters usually aren't fooled with too much(aside from the 2 Captain America TV pilot movies and the Cathy Lee Crosby Wonder Woman pilot).
For my money though, Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman costume from the second season onward will always be the single greatest outfit ever worn, thanks largely Ms. Carter's...ahem, ample...attributes. Drooooooooool.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Singer just made the Morally-correct, corny-All-American, apple pie eyed Supes into a guy who has kids out of wedlock... Bravo.
Had to explain that part to my kid...
Better to explain, IMHO, that Clark and Lois shouldn't have had irresponsible, out of wedlock sex in S2 to begin with, which has hardly been a secret since 1982... {:)
Oh yeah, Loeff. Let's not forget that Lois Lane probably had the longest term in pregnancy history if we count Supes 3 & 4. Those 2 films are hardly a secret; yet Singer & Co. want you to subliminally erase them from your mind as if they NEVER happened. 8-)
Not to mention, how does Lois sleep with another guy (Richard White) shortly after Supes leaving, after he insiminates her mind you, and convinces the other guy that it's his yet she won't marry him?
Am I crazy or are mass audiences just willing to accept any little thing that is handed to them? I'm not trying to make waves about this but this movie really was sorely lacking. Am I the only one who sees that this film came up short? That it had timespan flaws? But I guess that doesn't matter... right.
Maybe I need to learn to seperate my comic BOOK world from my comic MOVIE world in order to enjoy utter and complete nonsense. 8-)
Oh, and in your Spoiler Highlight, Loeff... Apocolypse is a Marvel Comics property not DC...
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
...Well, whatever the guy's name was who showed up and killed Supes a few years ago... ;% I've always been more 'Batman' than 'Superman'...
I think you might be overthinking things a bit. It is a fantasy, after all. As I said, these films are far from flawless---and wiping S3 and S4 from our memories is IMHO not a bad thing. .
I enjoyed this one for what it is, warts and all.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I think you might be overthinking things a bit. It is a fantasy, after all.
I'm hardly overthinking this but yeah...you're right, Loeff. Afterall us fanboys should keep an open mind about how Hollywood loves to alter our beloved comic characters. 8-)
As I said, these films are far from flawless---and wiping S3 and S4 from our memories is IMHO not a bad thing. .
Then perhaps they should have started fresh like Batman Begins? It seems to have worked for that film...
I enjoyed this one for what it is, warts and all.
Loeff, please FedEx me whatever it is you're drinking. I need that sort of buzz upon paying my admission and entering the theatre. )
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Wiping Superman 3 and Superman 4 from existence can only be a good thing. Even I can get behind that kind of a reboot.
Superman Returns had some very big plot holes; especially when it came to the whole Kryptonian Konception thing. Clearly Singer was very selective about what elements from S1 and S2 he wanted to adhere to and what he wanted to discard. But it also had some great sequences. For me, the good outweighs the bad and I still had a good time. As I've said before these kinds of movies will never be 100% faithful to their source material. Studios will always introduce unwelcome elements into them in the hopes of pulling in a wider audience.
I know people who still condemn Batman Begins because Ras Al Gul was made Bruce's mentor; they find that change unforgivable and refuse to look past it. Another comics fan I know called X-Men 3 the worst movie ever made because of all the mutants who were killed (like that never happens in the comics) and because of the changes made to the storylines.
I used to be a purist like that but these days I accept the fact that unless I make the movie myself (anybody have a spare $200 million lying around?) certain elements will always be compromised. That's just the nature of the business. Unless it's a complete piece of garbage (Batman & Robin, anyone?) I'll always try to meet it halfway because the alternative will be waiting another 20 years for something worthwhile.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I can certainly respect those who enjoyed it. I have spoken my feelings about it so maybe I'll soften up a tad more once it's played on HBO/Cinemax a couple hundred times. I don't plan to buy the DVD and I'm not stoked to see the follow-up to this although I'll probably go because of the comic geek screaming in me.
For now I was somwhat displeased with what I got for my money with the exception of Routh & Spacey who weren't used properly in certain sequences. No one has to agree...
I just feel that the entertainment community should be held accountable for how they manipulate material. Especially encroaching on the comic genre.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
For what it's worth Rogue, I had the exact same reaction to X2 that you had to SR. Even as everybody around me raved about the movie, that damned "Have you tried not being a mutant" line kept droning in my head. That movie really rubbed me the wrong way and I didn't care for the way certain characters ended up or were used. Over the years my mood on X2 has softened but I still don't have the DVD (it bugged me so much I even dumped the X-Men movie DVD).
I respect your position and I'd never try to change it but I am curious about one thing: if the whole subplot with junior was removed from the movie and that character didn't exist, would you still have hated it as much as you did? For me, that will be the fly in this ointment and the scenes I will fast forward thru if I ever get the DVD.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
For what it's worth Rogue, I had the exact same reaction to X2 that you had to SR. Even as everybody around me raved about the movie, that damned "Have you tried not being a mutant" line kept droning in my head. That movie really rubbed me the wrong way and I didn't care for the way certain characters ended up or were used. Over the years my mood on X2 has softened but I still don't have the DVD (it bugged me so much I even dumped the X-Men movie DVD).
I respect your position and I'd never try to change it but I am curious about one thing: if the whole subplot with junior was removed from the movie and that character didn't exist, would you still have hated it as much as you did? For me, that will be the fly in this ointment and the scenes I will fast forward thru if I ever get the DVD.
Yes!Okay! I'll admit it! The kid bothered me to no end, Tony! ) Why must they put a child in every little venture that comes along? It was just a baaaad idea. If it were just a love triangle with no trump in the middle, I would have left the movie in a better mood and kinder things to say about it; regardless of the poor subtext. But no! They just couldn't do it!
Funny you should mention your disdain for X-3; I remember getting roasted for loving Ang Lee's cinematic achievement with The Hulk. I thought that the film was a masterpiece of work and everyone around me claimed to hating it. Go figure...
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Yes!Okay! I'll admit it! The kid bothered me to no end, Tony! ) Why must they put a child in every little venture that comes along? It was just a baaaad idea. If it were just a love triangle with no trump in the middle, I would have left the movie in a better mood and kinder things to say about it; regardless of the poor subtext. But no! They just couldn't do it!
Yikes!! I think I struck a nerve. ) Something tells me that when this movie is released on DVD, some enterprising young filmmaker will be doing a hatchet job on little Jason's scenes as I think a lot of people feel the same as you do (I'm one of them, but clearly not as strong as you).
Funny you should mention your disdain for X-3; I remember getting roasted for loving Ang Lee's cinematic achievement with The Hulk. I thought that the film was a masterpiece of work and everyone around me claimed to hating it. Go figure...
It was X2 I hated; X3 was a good popcorn movie. I also got roasted for liking Hulk; all my friends couldn't follow the multiple panels; when I explained to them that Ang Lee was trying to emulate the layout of a comic book, I swear I could hear the crickets. They were also terribly disappointed Lou Ferrigno wasn't cast again as the Hulk.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
They were also terribly disappointed Lou Ferrigno wasn't cast again as the Hulk.
Clearly those around you, who wished this, need drug testing. You gotta be kiddin' me here. )
I'm still sorely anticipating a sequel to this with The Leader or Abomination added on. But they're dragging their feet on something like this...
I kid you not; a lot of people I work with thought that the CGI Hulk was "too fat" and that it would have been better if Ferrigno had returned.
Last I heard, David Duchovny was being bandied about to play Bruce Banner and the movie might be another...wait for it...reboot. The rationale here being that people within Marvel actually agreed with the luddites who thought Lee's vision was too artistic and esoteric.
Comments
Why do I get the feeling that dozens of comic geeks are thinking like me? ?:)
Better get there by 9:00 to be safe.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
On the plus side, Routh, Spacey & Marsden were excellent in their respective parts.
Routh may not make many forget about Reeve's donning of the crimson cape and maybe that's a good thing. Well, I know it's a good thing but I thought that he did a superb job with what he had to work with.
Spacey's Luthor was dark with subtle spices of campiness here and there.
Bosworth's Lane was...meh...
The problem that I had with the picture was that the script/direction was just toooooo Lifetime Channel. Just too teary and lumpy-throated....and of course, I did not like the kid being put into the equation.
Also not decent closure to this film...damn you, Singer! I want my money back!
ALL HAIL BATMAN BEGINS!!!!
I've got a feeling that it won't be knocked off too quickly by this DC attempt.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
The Good
- Brandon Routh was absolutely perfect as Superman and Clark Kent. He displayed a quiet, dignified strength as Supes and a likeable vulnerability as Kent. His performance was absolutely spot on for me and he won me over in about 2 minutes.
- Kevin Spacey hit one out of the park as Lex Luthor. He was at turns funny, sinister and downright evil. His scenes with Kitty were great and when it came time to take his frustrations out on Superman he really shined.
- The effects were phenomenal. The flying scenes were 100% believable and seeing Superman's powers in action (especially his heat vision) was a lot of fun.
- The homages to the first film (such as the look of Krypton, the lines lifted from Superman I, the music, and the opening credits) really gave the movie a nostalgic feel and truly made it a sequel to the 1978 movie.
- James Marsden was very likeable as Richard White (although I think his character could have easily been removed from the screenplay). Jimmy Olsen and Perry White were also very well realized.
The Not So Good
- Kate Bosworth was utterly forgettable as Lois Lane and came across completely flat in all of her interactions. She had no chemistry at all with her son, Richard or Superman; her scenes with Clark were even worse. She came across as a petulant jilted girlfriend and then a lovestruck teenager; never a plucky reporter. The worst piece of casting by far, she isn't even a pale shadow of Margot Kidder.
- The child angle was unnecessary and needlessly complicated the mythos for me. Even though it led to one of the most touching scenes in the movie I really think Superman is better off as a single, unattached superhero. There's a reason he's the last son of Krypton.
- The removal of the scenes where Superman explores the remains of Krypton was a big disappointment. I would have gladly given up 20 minutes of character exposition to see those scenes.
- The crisis is something of a rehash of the original movie (another real estate scheme courtesy of Lex, albeit a much bigger one).
Overall, I think the movie was a little too long and spent too much time on the secondary characters. If you removed Richard White and the kid you'd have a much leaner movie, more watchable movie IMHO.
I'm glad I saw it, I'll probably see the Imax version, and I'll definitely pick up the DVD. But it's nowhere near as good as the 1978 version. I'd give it about a 7/10.
Let me ask you...whatever happened to that memory-wipe scene from Supes 2? For all that Lois knew about being with child, she could have been the second coming of Mary.
Yes, and Bosworth was utterly forgettable.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Yeah that bugged me too. How could she know the kid was Superman's but not know Kent and Superman were the same person? Pretty selective memory wipe there and definitely a very big loose thread.
I guess for me the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. And after the forgettable Superboy, the awful Lois and Clark and the misguided Smallville (to me if Supes doesn't wear the costume, he isn't Supes) and least this one looked like the Superman I remember.
What can I say, I'm feeling generous today (skipping work always does that to me).
I just hate the direction of where Singer is taking these characters.
The sequel should open on a taut, Juvenile Court scene between Supes and Lois. 8-)
Singer just made the Morally-correct, corny-All-American, apple pie eyed Supes into a guy who has kids out of wedlock... Bravo.
Had to explain that part to my kid...
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
If I were doing the sequel to SR, the first thing I'd do is haul junior off to the Kent farm so he can learn to deal with his new powers discreetly and off screen.
I'd also get a foe who is a physical match for Superman. Lifting newborn continents and stopping jetplanes is all well and good but at some point he needs to roll up his sleeves and have a good knock down, drag out brawl with somebody.
Agree TOTALLY.
Not once did I see Superman so much as spit at a criminal much less slug one. Not much testosterone going on in this film when the Man Of Steel supposedly exudes it...
Darkseid anyone?
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Still your tongue Desaad, lest I rip it out!!!
I really wish WB would get Paul Dini or some of the guys from the JLU show to write a movie; I guarantee they wouldn't weigh it down with all that melodrama.
And say what you want about Brett Rattner and X3, but at least he delivered an entertaining actionfest and didn't get mired in relationships and other Lifetime network cliches.
This film was so Lifetime-themed that I was expecting Meredith Baxter to make a cameo appearance any minute.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
It'd probably be rejected out of hand for not being like something Richard Donner had made previously.
It all comes down to story and at that level,I think all of the Superman movies have been deficient in various ways.The first film's good, but it alters Luthor into a bald standup comedian (with a limited concept of how to use his reputed genius) more suited to the Adam West "Batman" TV series than as the villain in a real Superman adventure.It's Christopher Reeve's sincere performance and uncanny resemblance to the Man of Steel that really makes it work.
The second film is better if only because Superman has adversaries who are supposed to be his equals.Unfortunately,Lex is still around laughing it up.
From what I understand based upon interviews and articles about SR,Singer's sole point of reference for SR is the Donner Superman movie and portions of S2.Not much else.Certainly not anything from the comic books.
One of the reasons the Spider-Man films have done so well,is--IMO--because the screenwriters for them are not hired guns but are actually fans of the character,and who've even read the comic book.And there's Sam Raimi who's another fan of the Spider-Man comics.That these movies have clever storylines with interesting crowd-pleasing moments should come as no surprise.Unlike say,all of the Batman movies which are largely Batman in name only.Only Batman Begins got it right--but then only the people behind Batman Begins are really familiar with their source material.They wrote and cast accordingly.
The Phantom worked because the screenwriter based his screenplay on the comic strip's "Air Pirates" storyline and most of the film was well cast and took itself seriously enough.
The Flash TV series worked because the producers and writers made an effort to bring key elements from the comic book to the screen.There were alterations made but nothing major.
Heck,I think Lois and Clark succeeds occasionally.Obviously a few of the people at the top at least had a passing knowledge of the comic books.Overall the cast looked right and I think Lane Smith was the best actor to play Perry White "Great Shades of Elvis" and all,and I've been a fan of the Superman comics since 1954.IMO this show also had the best Ma and Pa Kent and the only actress who really looked like Lois Lane as Lois.As Superman,Dean Cain resembled Captain Marvel--but he looked exactly like the John Byrne version of Clark Kent and gave good performances in both guises.The stories were limited but eventually somebody realized L&C was a Superman show and we got to see Kal-El kick butt from time to time.John Shea's Luthor was much closer to the mark than Hackman ever was and happily,he wasn't always around.
It shouldn't be impossible to make a great Superman movie.But if the proposed sequel is just another salute to the first Donner film with more elements from the second one tossed in,then Superman's potential is being ignored and that's damn shame.
This film is far more faithful to S1 and S2 than it is to the books---thus, IMHO this film shares many assets and liabilities with these two forebears...neither of which were flawless, by a long shot.
Spacey's Luthor is a lot of fun, but he remains essentially the same zany real estate opportunist (albeit with outlandish methods) that Donner gave us in the Seventies. I hope we go bigger and badder with the villains next time round---Apocalypse, Braniac?---and just keep Lex on the island for a while...:D
I will see this one again on the big screen, and my review will become more extensive as I continue to process...
If you like Superman, go see it. It's great summer fun.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Better to explain, IMHO, that Clark and Lois shouldn't have had irresponsible, out of wedlock sex in S2 to begin with,
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Actually, there were a few references from the comics in SR. I caught references to Alex Ross's and Mark Waid's work (especially Peace on Earth) and one scene is clearly a homage to Superman's first appearance in Action Comics. Some of the final scenes had a "Death of Superman" vibe to them as well. There was also a subtle little nod to Arthur C. Clarke that I absolutely loved (I think I was the only one in the theater who got that one). Although you're right that Superman I is clearly the major inspiration for this movie.
I've pretty much resigned myself that these films will never be completely faithful to the source material they're based on (even Batman Begins took some liberties with Batman's origin and his look and the Spiderman movies aren't introducing Gwen Stacy until after Peter and MJ have cemented their relationship). The studios will always have reservations about guys running around in tights and the filmmakers will always have the urge to put their personal stamp on everything they make. It's a compromise and some movies are more compromised than others.
Overall, I enjoyed Superman Returns but some of Singer's creative decisions just complicated the story and the mythos needlessly for me. But despite my reservations and disappointments, I still give it a thumbs up. It's heart was definitely in the right place.
I'm also certain that a boy scout do gooder like Superman would not have left Earth and would have done the right thing if he had known that Lois was pregnant.
That got me thinking though. When Supes and Lois got it on in S2, Superman had renounced his powers and had been converted to a mere mortal. If that's the case, then how can Jason have superpowers?
I think I've just crossed over into the Fanboy zone.
I caught the Action Comics #1 cover pose and the Peace on Earth allusions too.But yeah,despite such touches films like these are always compromised because very few American filmmakers are comfortable with people running around in costumes unless they're making historical movies-- and even those aren't made very often.And when they are, there are almost always some modern components added(the upcoming Marie Antoinette with it's rock 'n roll soundtrack,for example).But out of necessity or because the director and the costume designer want to make their mark,a superhero's costume is nearly always altered and/or revised.Most of them,however--with the possible exception of the X-Men's togs--generally remain recognizable to some degree.The duds of the most iconic characters usually aren't fooled with too much(aside from the 2 Captain America TV pilot movies and the Cathy Lee Crosby Wonder Woman pilot).That's not terrible.As noted,these movies aren't made for the fanboys alone but also for the general audiences--some of whom would never go near a comic book even if they were offered money to do so.
Singer greatly respects what Richard Donner achieved in the past and the Donner/Tom Mankeiwicz version of Superman is his favorite interpretation of the character.SR isn't a bad film at all,it's good looking and well-acted.The storyline's weak in places, but overall it does exactly what it set out to accomplish and sets the stage for at least one sequel.
And yes,I definitely intend to buy the extended Director's Cut version of the Superman Returns DVD.I liked this film--with a few reservations--but I liked it nonetheless.
For my money though, Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman costume from the second season onward will always be the single greatest outfit ever worn, thanks largely Ms. Carter's...ahem, ample...attributes. Drooooooooool.
Oh yeah, Loeff. Let's not forget that Lois Lane probably had the longest term in pregnancy history if we count Supes 3 & 4. Those 2 films are hardly a secret; yet Singer & Co. want you to subliminally erase them from your mind as if they NEVER happened. 8-)
Not to mention, how does Lois sleep with another guy (Richard White) shortly after Supes leaving, after he insiminates her mind you, and convinces the other guy that it's his yet she won't marry him?
Am I crazy or are mass audiences just willing to accept any little thing that is handed to them? I'm not trying to make waves about this but this movie really was sorely lacking. Am I the only one who sees that this film came up short? That it had timespan flaws? But I guess that doesn't matter... right.
Maybe I need to learn to seperate my comic BOOK world from my comic MOVIE world in order to enjoy utter and complete nonsense. 8-)
Oh, and in your Spoiler Highlight, Loeff... Apocolypse is a Marvel Comics property not DC...
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I think you might be overthinking things a bit. It is a fantasy, after all. As I said, these films are far from flawless---and wiping S3 and S4 from our memories is IMHO not a bad thing.
I enjoyed this one for what it is, warts and all.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I'm hardly overthinking this but yeah...you're right, Loeff. Afterall us fanboys should keep an open mind about how Hollywood loves to alter our beloved comic characters. 8-)
Then perhaps they should have started fresh like Batman Begins? It seems to have worked for that film...
Loeff, please FedEx me whatever it is you're drinking. I need that sort of buzz upon paying my admission and entering the theatre.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Superman Returns had some very big plot holes; especially when it came to the whole Kryptonian Konception thing. Clearly Singer was very selective about what elements from S1 and S2 he wanted to adhere to and what he wanted to discard. But it also had some great sequences. For me, the good outweighs the bad and I still had a good time. As I've said before these kinds of movies will never be 100% faithful to their source material. Studios will always introduce unwelcome elements into them in the hopes of pulling in a wider audience.
I know people who still condemn Batman Begins because Ras Al Gul was made Bruce's mentor; they find that change unforgivable and refuse to look past it. Another comics fan I know called X-Men 3 the worst movie ever made because of all the mutants who were killed (like that never happens in the comics) and because of the changes made to the storylines.
I used to be a purist like that but these days I accept the fact that unless I make the movie myself (anybody have a spare $200 million lying around?) certain elements will always be compromised. That's just the nature of the business. Unless it's a complete piece of garbage (Batman & Robin, anyone?) I'll always try to meet it halfway because the alternative will be waiting another 20 years for something worthwhile.
For now I was somwhat displeased with what I got for my money with the exception of Routh & Spacey who weren't used properly in certain sequences. No one has to agree...
I just feel that the entertainment community should be held accountable for how they manipulate material. Especially encroaching on the comic genre.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I respect your position and I'd never try to change it but I am curious about one thing: if the whole subplot with junior was removed from the movie and that character didn't exist, would you still have hated it as much as you did? For me, that will be the fly in this ointment and the scenes I will fast forward thru if I ever get the DVD.
Yes!Okay! I'll admit it! The kid bothered me to no end, Tony!
Funny you should mention your disdain for X-3; I remember getting roasted for loving Ang Lee's cinematic achievement with The Hulk. I thought that the film was a masterpiece of work and everyone around me claimed to hating it. Go figure...
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Yikes!! I think I struck a nerve.
It was X2 I hated; X3 was a good popcorn movie. I also got roasted for liking Hulk; all my friends couldn't follow the multiple panels; when I explained to them that Ang Lee was trying to emulate the layout of a comic book, I swear I could hear the crickets.
Clearly those around you, who wished this, need drug testing. You gotta be kiddin' me here.
I'm still sorely anticipating a sequel to this with The Leader or Abomination added on. But they're dragging their feet on something like this...
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I kid you not; a lot of people I work with thought that the CGI Hulk was "too fat" and that it would have been better if Ferrigno had returned.
Last I heard, David Duchovny was being bandied about to play Bruce Banner and the movie might be another...wait for it...reboot. The rationale here being that people within Marvel actually agreed with the luddites who thought Lee's vision was too artistic and esoteric.