The ASP was a heavily modified S&W model 39-2. Fractures in the lexan have to do with overtightening the screws, not what you alluded to. As for collectibility, it's akin to collecting watches. Some people like patina, other people don't. In the end, the owner makes the choice. As the saying goes opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one.
DG
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
GA Listing Number 976052299
Seller Stock #
Category Guns >> Handguns
Condition .
Asking Price $5,750.00
"The "Quest For Excellence" ASP Special EditionIn 1946 C.R. Hellstrom was elected president of Smith & Wesson. He instructed the firm,s chief firearms designer Joe Norman to develop a new 9mm semi-automatic pistol featuring a double action first shot design. On October 28, 1948 Mr. Norman completed the first prototype pistol Serial No. X-46. This weapon evolved into the Smith & Wesson Model 439 semi-automatic 9mm pistol.This, first and only special edition ASP pistol ever produced by Armament Systems and Procedures is a tribute to Joe Norman,s design. The 286 modifications normally performed in an ASP conversion of the 439 are supplemented by a series of unique and never-before-offered accessories to the ASP.This specially produced ASP pistol is fitted with handmade Indian buffalo horn grips with a clear window for cartridge visibility.The standard Guttersnipe Advance Sighting Plane is augmented by the installation of three radio luminous tritium capsules which provide a tri-dot sighting system during low light conditions.Complete with a specially machined MC 3 all-steel companion boot knife.A 14K solid gold cloisonne lapel pin are encased with the ASP pistol.Furnished in a glove leather bound presentation book inscribed with "THE QUEST FOR EXCELLENCE by Norman".A specially produced instruction manual details the history of the pistol and the uniqueness of the special edition.The slide of the weapon, lapel pin, boot knife and instruction manual are all sequently serial numbered from 001 through 100.In conclusion each item in the QUEST FOR EXCELLENCE edition is uniquely functional. The lapel pin identifies the client as one who appreciates the excellence of the ASP. The leather bound folio case provides discrete storage of a truly one of a kind firearm.Above is from the original sales brochure. Condition is absolutely new in the box.Note:When Ian Fleming died John Gardner continued to write the James Bond novels. When John Gardner first saw the ASP pistol he immediately said that this would be the gun James Bond would carry. In his first novel "Role of Honor" the ASP pistol is featured as his weapon of choice."
That should suit you, the "limited production" model was made from a 439, but the original Thompson design, which was a set of suggestions, done in 1970, was drawn up from the then new STEEL frame model 59 which was marketed at about 1970. approx 250-300 lower quality units were produced, which had the lexan grips, and also suffered from a tendency for the frame to warp at or near the sear. THAT WAS BECAUSE THE SHORT PRODUCTION MODEL UTILIZED DESIGN CHANGES MADE TO A STEEL FRAME, and carried out on the newer alloy frame, which was the 39-2. This tendency led to discontinuation of the model entirely after the initial run was completed at or about 1982. The earlier handbult limited edition models suffered no such frame issues. and were not EVER placed in production, only prototyped. It seems that someone has confused the origianl late 1940's design and issue of a number of prototypes and the 1980 issue models, attributed to Thompson, who was primarily a designer of leather holsters. I can understand the misunderstanding, as so few were produced, but to see this same mistake made over and over again, and even repeated and taken as gospel when this mistake is made in both Wikipedia and other articles, here is the one which assumes the 1980's production was the be all and end all of Asp models, I include it as comparison to the earlier version ABOVE which is from Smith and Wesson.
S&W Model 39-2 ASP
"The 9mm ASP is a custom configuration of the basic S&W Model 39 designed and manufactured by Paris Theodore who also owned a custom gun leather business called Seventrees, Ltd. in New York City back in the 1970’s. He was asked by the U.S. Government to design a handgun for covert operatives. Some of his concepts were radical for the day but have now become standard on combat handguns 30 years later. The one pictured was customized even further with a complete action job, polished trigger and ambidextrous safety / decock since the originals were configured only for wrong handed people.
The size of the slide, barrel and grip was chopped down to make it more concealable. He was the first to pioneer the idea of adding a finger hook to the front of the trigger guard to give the index finger of the supporting hand a better grip. All sharp edges were smoothed and rounded to prevent any snagging on clothing. The hammer spur was completely removed.
You will notice there is not any front sight blade. The rear sight, known as a Guttersnipe, does away with the need for a front sight. When looking through the Guttersnipe sight the shooter sees three triangles all the same size when on target. Acquiring the target is instinctive and very fast. The grips are transparent lexan that allows the shooter to see how many rounds remain in the magazine that has also been completely redone to show the rounds in it. The frame and slide are coated with black Teflon-S. "
Why is no mention made of the 1948 Asp?
List of major models of S&W semi-auto pistols
Please note that this listing may be incomplete. Generation Caliber Model Material
Frame / Slide Lenght, mm Barrel lenght, mm Weight, gramms Magazine capacity, rounds Comments
First 9x19mm Luger 39 Steel / Steel 192 102 780 8 out of production
First 9x19mm Luger 59 Steel / Steel 192 102 840 14 out of production
Second 9x19mm Luger 459 Aluminium / Steel 192 102 n/a 14 out of production
Second 9x19mm Luger 559 Steel / Steel 192 102 n/a 14 out of production
Second 9x19mm Luger 659 Stainless Steel / Stainless Steel 192 102 n/a 14 out of production
Second 9x19mm Luger 469 Aluminium / Steel 175 89 730 12 out of production
Second 9x19mm Luger 669 Aluminium / Stainless Steel 175 89 745 12 out of production
Second .45ACP 457 Aluminium / Steel 184 95 812 7 compact model
Second .45ACP 645 Stainless Steel / Stainless Steel 225 127 n/a n/a out of production
Second .45ACP 745 Stainless Steel / Stainless Steel 219 127 1065 8 single action
out of production
Second 9x19mm Luger 908 Aluminium / Steel 173 89 670 8 compact model
Second 9x19mm Luger 910 Aluminium / Steel 187 102 790 15 (10)
Second .45ACP 945 Stainless Steel / Stainless Steel 222 127 1176 8 single action
custom mfg
Third 9x19mm Luger 3913/3953 Aluminium /
Stainless Steel 171 89 700 8 compact model
Third 9x19mm Luger 5906/5946 Stainless Steel /
Stainless Steel 190 102 1072 10
Third 9x19mm Luger 5903/5943 Aluminium /
Stainless Steel 190 102 809 10
Third .40 SW 4013/4053 Aluminium /
Stainless Steel 171 89 750 9 compact model
Third .40 SW 4006/4046 Stainless Steel /
Stainless Steel 190 102 1058 10
Third .40 SW 4003/4043 Aluminium /
Stainless Steel 190 102 800 10
Third 10mm auto 1006 Stainless Steel /
Stainless Steel 225 127 n/a 9 out of production
Third 10mm auto 1076 Stainless Steel /
Stainless Steel 200 102 n/a 9 out of production
Third .45 ACP 4513/4553 Aluminium /
Stainless Steel 196 95 800 7 compact model
Third .45 ACP 4566/4586 Stainless Steel /
Stainless Steel 200 108 1094 8
Third .45 ACP 4563/4583 Aluminium /
Stainless Steel 200 108 856 8
If you will please note, the Gardner selection of the ASP was based upon a highly limited edition handbuilt, and not the limited production run that was produced in the 1980's.
I do hope this display of both articles satisfies the idea that the origianl Asp was a 1940's design and the 1980 re-design was a limited and somewhat flawed attempt to replicate the original. Both models were built before widespread use of the +P loads, and it's not really too hard a concept to understand that any highly-modified frame, especially an alloy one, would not have the inherent strength that would allow it to be a frequent shooter. It was never designed to be a frequent shooter.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
edited January 2007
Paris Thedores original Asp design was, strangely enough, based on the PPK. All of the patents submitted had the PPK as the base gun. These were submitted in 1973. Design started on the Asp in early 1972.
It's probably the case that the Thompson modifications were carried out in a well-meaning way with less than strong results because of the differences between the PPK and the S&W. As I mentioned before the material used in frames varies widely over the lifespan of the S&W, and it's even difficult for experts to say which is which and what is what without factory records.
Look at what happened to Lee Jurris and the Auto-mag, good design ruined by poor execution.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
edited January 2007
The reference with Thompson is incorrect. He was President of S&W and he started working on and developing, along with Joe Norman, the double action S&W automatic only and not the Asp. The Quest for Excellence ASP is merely a commemoration of this event and a hommage to him as President of S&W, Joe Norman, and the lesser known fact that Thompson ordered a 59 Asp conversion from Armament Systems and Procedures. It has nothing to do with a connection between the ASP development, design and Thompson at all. If you re read this you will see it clearly.
The design of the ASP was down to Paris Theodore in the early seventies and Paris Theodore only. No one worked before him on this design, although a second person may have been involved with the development of the project. He started with a PPK, went over to a Browning Hi Power with various success and failure, and finally settled on the S&W 39. I am sure that if S&W did develop the ASP, even partially, then Theodore would have been sued considerably by them and not just shown the door after he presented them with the design. S&W famously stated during their meeting when Paris introduced the design to them, that a cut down pistol was not a viable seller and no one needed one. Paris dubbed it the NIH syndrome (NOT INVENTED HERE), and went home disapointed.
Several 59's were indeed converted to the Paris/ASP spec several years later by customers of Armament Systems, but due to the wider butt etc when the conversion was made and struts machined down for the mag to be visable through the lexan, it weakened the area and caused the frames to distort when fired, as you have mentioned. This never happened with the S&W 39 conversion and their frames are very sound. The only problem was the barrel bushing, which was changed. DG is correct about the screws being tightened causing the cracks, and not the stress of being fired.
As far as I know Mr H, all of the New York produced Asps are going strong, if production had not moved to Applegate, and corners cut on Mr Theodores redesign, then we would not see the problem that some of the non NY versions developed.
Saying that though, many of the non NY Asps were up to a high standard, and quite a few of them are still seeing active service... amazing. Wouldn't recommend +P's through em though.
You asked why there is no mention of the 1948 Asp. This is because the Asp was not even in anyones thoughts until another 20 years later.
SMITH AND WESSON HAD NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH ASP INVENTION, EVOLUTION, PRODUCTION OR DESIGN AT ALL.... SAVE FOR THE BASE MODEL 39 THE ASP WAS USING IN IT'S CONVERSION.
This is very well documented by Theodore and S&W. And ironically it was Smith and Wesson (not design faults) that put the ASP out of production.... by introducing the model 469. This was a relatively inexpensive gun compared to the ASP. It was also a very good little gun that evolved into the excellent and underrated model 3913.
If you see one of those 59 conversions, buy it. They will be worth a fortune, and I know of only two in existence. One of which was bought for $9K in 1996.
Paris Theodore did redesign the original ASP in the mid eighties. And although never released, it was based on the HK P7. I hope there is one of his prototypes still out there, as I just have to see what improvements he could possibly make to that gun. A great pity he is not around now to comment.
Thank you for putting mister H right. I wanted to but have been feeling a little drained of late and did not have the energy to go into all that. I will add that after Paris Theodore approched S&W and was denied, S&W ended up using a lot of Theodore's modifications on later guns. In essence S&W appropriated Theodore's work with out paying for it.
DG
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
edited January 2007
I'm nackered now DG, that took effort
Just as an extra bit of Bond info. John Gardner actually heard about the Asp through Geoffrey Boothroyds Handgun book which had the Applegate Asp in it. Gardner was also presented with an Asp by Smith and Wesson of all people, after using it for several years in the books. It had 007 added to the serial number, and is now in the hands of a collector after Gardner moved back to the UK.
During Gardners last few books, his memory became fuzzy on the subject of firearms and he incorrectly referred to it as a BHP conversion. This was also helped by the fact that he owned the BHP pocket version, which he gave Bond in Scorpius.
Benson wanted to continue Bonds association with the Asp, but was forced by the publishers to drop it in favour of the iconic PPK, which they thought readers had more of a connection to. Even the P99 was not allowed to take over as the main sidearm. It will be interesting to see what the next author will be allowed or indeed forced to use.
I have origional S&W 39-2, Devel,ASP,
and Im in process of purchasing,Quest for exc Model,
Any one who would like to sell there asp in anycondition
id be grateful for pics and price
The guy's name is Robert he business name is Show-Gun located in Pembrokepines Florida. He has all the springs grips and can refinish the pistol if needed
I really enjoyed all the wrangling over ASP history. A friend of mine had one made up in the early 1980's, and it was quite a nice piece. As I recall the Teflon finish was rather soft and prone to scratch. It came with a zipper pouch and a nice leather holster.
My friend shot his very few times. I don't recall any specifics but I don't think he ever got comfortable with the handling and the "guttersnipe" sight.
After keeping the ASP for a few years he sold it. I wish now I had the foresight to have bought it from him.
I also own a pair of the Wisconsin ASPs. Finding and acquiring both a New York version and a Quest for Excellence version are on my to-do list. Regrettably, one of mine sustained damage from an incredibly clumsy mistake on my part. After decocking, as I was preparing to clean it, I boneheadedly forgot to return the safety to the fire position before running the slide forward and off the frame. The let grip panel is too wide to allow this and it acted like a cam on the safety lever, bending it outward. I pass this on as a cautionary tale to other owners or potential owners. As I realise this has spoilt the value of this ASP, I see no harm in looking into restoring it. It is currently functional with a stock S&W M39 safety replacing the wrecked one; but I am hoping to find someone that can refinish this lever in teflon-S. Thankfully, neither of mine have any cracks in the grips. I have carried both of them (not at the same time) and used Federal 124 NyClads as they expand reliably without beating the gun to death with excessive pressures.
I have tried to find more detail on the Quell System as well, including a vendor of Quell System targets and any training materials that might have existed either before or after Paris Theodore's passing.
Ironically, I'd been trying to find Paris Theodore for two years prior to his passing in the hope of interviewing him for a book. I was crushed on Thanksgiving of 2006 when i learned of his passing earlier in the month.
Too bad I just sold my QOS - Number 011 of One Hundred
However, I still got some ASP parts I like to sell
-ASP Sight
-Mag
-Mag Holder
etc.
Please email me sudakan@gmail.com
To me there is a list of items that every serious Bondphile should have in their collection. The ASP 9mm is one of those items. As James McMahon wrote over at Her Majesty's Secret Servant: "If Bond were a gun, he'd be the ASP. Dark, deadly, perfectly suited to his mission. Possessing style, elan and panache."
In terms of guns and collecting, it is considered the first "pocket nine" and it sparked a revolution. Because many gun manufacturers subsequently ripped off elements of the design of the ASP. Beyond that the design of the gun is somewhat shrouded in mystery and thought to be made for Company types and other agencies known to operate covertly while going into harm's way. It was not a gun you could buy outright. You had to buy a Smith and Wesson 39-2 and send it to Armament Systems and Procedures for it to be transformed into the ASP.
DG
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
Well, thanks. But we all know you are the real ASP expert. Now that is the gospel!
DG
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Well, thanks. But we all know you are the real ASP expert. Now that is the gospel!
DG
Sorry, DG I must tell you that during his absence, he turned into a butterknife specialist.
About watches and guns he has no clue
Too funny! But I must say, the ASP 9mm is a fascinating subject as is Paris Theodore the creator of the ASP. So Mr. Asp9mm has found a very worthy subject to be knowledgeable about. Personally, I'm always learning something new about the ASP and it's creator. It's just a very interesting piece of gun history even if you take away the Bond element. The fact that Geoffrey Boothroyd blessed the ASP in his tome The Handgun only adds to the patina of coolness.
DG
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Comments
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Seller Stock #
Category Guns >> Handguns
Condition .
Asking Price $5,750.00
"The "Quest For Excellence" ASP Special EditionIn 1946 C.R. Hellstrom was elected president of Smith & Wesson. He instructed the firm,s chief firearms designer Joe Norman to develop a new 9mm semi-automatic pistol featuring a double action first shot design. On October 28, 1948 Mr. Norman completed the first prototype pistol Serial No. X-46. This weapon evolved into the Smith & Wesson Model 439 semi-automatic 9mm pistol.This, first and only special edition ASP pistol ever produced by Armament Systems and Procedures is a tribute to Joe Norman,s design. The 286 modifications normally performed in an ASP conversion of the 439 are supplemented by a series of unique and never-before-offered accessories to the ASP.This specially produced ASP pistol is fitted with handmade Indian buffalo horn grips with a clear window for cartridge visibility.The standard Guttersnipe Advance Sighting Plane is augmented by the installation of three radio luminous tritium capsules which provide a tri-dot sighting system during low light conditions.Complete with a specially machined MC 3 all-steel companion boot knife.A 14K solid gold cloisonne lapel pin are encased with the ASP pistol.Furnished in a glove leather bound presentation book inscribed with "THE QUEST FOR EXCELLENCE by Norman".A specially produced instruction manual details the history of the pistol and the uniqueness of the special edition.The slide of the weapon, lapel pin, boot knife and instruction manual are all sequently serial numbered from 001 through 100.In conclusion each item in the QUEST FOR EXCELLENCE edition is uniquely functional. The lapel pin identifies the client as one who appreciates the excellence of the ASP. The leather bound folio case provides discrete storage of a truly one of a kind firearm.Above is from the original sales brochure. Condition is absolutely new in the box.Note:When Ian Fleming died John Gardner continued to write the James Bond novels. When John Gardner first saw the ASP pistol he immediately said that this would be the gun James Bond would carry. In his first novel "Role of Honor" the ASP pistol is featured as his weapon of choice."
That should suit you, the "limited production" model was made from a 439, but the original Thompson design, which was a set of suggestions, done in 1970, was drawn up from the then new STEEL frame model 59 which was marketed at about 1970. approx 250-300 lower quality units were produced, which had the lexan grips, and also suffered from a tendency for the frame to warp at or near the sear. THAT WAS BECAUSE THE SHORT PRODUCTION MODEL UTILIZED DESIGN CHANGES MADE TO A STEEL FRAME, and carried out on the newer alloy frame, which was the 39-2. This tendency led to discontinuation of the model entirely after the initial run was completed at or about 1982. The earlier handbult limited edition models suffered no such frame issues. and were not EVER placed in production, only prototyped. It seems that someone has confused the origianl late 1940's design and issue of a number of prototypes and the 1980 issue models, attributed to Thompson, who was primarily a designer of leather holsters. I can understand the misunderstanding, as so few were produced, but to see this same mistake made over and over again, and even repeated and taken as gospel when this mistake is made in both Wikipedia and other articles, here is the one which assumes the 1980's production was the be all and end all of Asp models, I include it as comparison to the earlier version ABOVE which is from Smith and Wesson.
S&W Model 39-2 ASP
"The 9mm ASP is a custom configuration of the basic S&W Model 39 designed and manufactured by Paris Theodore who also owned a custom gun leather business called Seventrees, Ltd. in New York City back in the 1970’s. He was asked by the U.S. Government to design a handgun for covert operatives. Some of his concepts were radical for the day but have now become standard on combat handguns 30 years later. The one pictured was customized even further with a complete action job, polished trigger and ambidextrous safety / decock since the originals were configured only for wrong handed people.
The size of the slide, barrel and grip was chopped down to make it more concealable. He was the first to pioneer the idea of adding a finger hook to the front of the trigger guard to give the index finger of the supporting hand a better grip. All sharp edges were smoothed and rounded to prevent any snagging on clothing. The hammer spur was completely removed.
You will notice there is not any front sight blade. The rear sight, known as a Guttersnipe, does away with the need for a front sight. When looking through the Guttersnipe sight the shooter sees three triangles all the same size when on target. Acquiring the target is instinctive and very fast. The grips are transparent lexan that allows the shooter to see how many rounds remain in the magazine that has also been completely redone to show the rounds in it. The frame and slide are coated with black Teflon-S. "
Why is no mention made of the 1948 Asp?
List of major models of S&W semi-auto pistols
Please note that this listing may be incomplete. Generation Caliber Model Material
Frame / Slide Lenght, mm Barrel lenght, mm Weight, gramms Magazine capacity, rounds Comments
First 9x19mm Luger 39 Steel / Steel 192 102 780 8 out of production
First 9x19mm Luger 59 Steel / Steel 192 102 840 14 out of production
Second 9x19mm Luger 459 Aluminium / Steel 192 102 n/a 14 out of production
Second 9x19mm Luger 559 Steel / Steel 192 102 n/a 14 out of production
Second 9x19mm Luger 659 Stainless Steel / Stainless Steel 192 102 n/a 14 out of production
Second 9x19mm Luger 469 Aluminium / Steel 175 89 730 12 out of production
Second 9x19mm Luger 669 Aluminium / Stainless Steel 175 89 745 12 out of production
Second .45ACP 457 Aluminium / Steel 184 95 812 7 compact model
Second .45ACP 645 Stainless Steel / Stainless Steel 225 127 n/a n/a out of production
Second .45ACP 745 Stainless Steel / Stainless Steel 219 127 1065 8 single action
out of production
Second 9x19mm Luger 908 Aluminium / Steel 173 89 670 8 compact model
Second 9x19mm Luger 910 Aluminium / Steel 187 102 790 15 (10)
Second .45ACP 945 Stainless Steel / Stainless Steel 222 127 1176 8 single action
custom mfg
Third 9x19mm Luger 3913/3953 Aluminium /
Stainless Steel 171 89 700 8 compact model
Third 9x19mm Luger 5906/5946 Stainless Steel /
Stainless Steel 190 102 1072 10
Third 9x19mm Luger 5903/5943 Aluminium /
Stainless Steel 190 102 809 10
Third .40 SW 4013/4053 Aluminium /
Stainless Steel 171 89 750 9 compact model
Third .40 SW 4006/4046 Stainless Steel /
Stainless Steel 190 102 1058 10
Third .40 SW 4003/4043 Aluminium /
Stainless Steel 190 102 800 10
Third 10mm auto 1006 Stainless Steel /
Stainless Steel 225 127 n/a 9 out of production
Third 10mm auto 1076 Stainless Steel /
Stainless Steel 200 102 n/a 9 out of production
Third .45 ACP 4513/4553 Aluminium /
Stainless Steel 196 95 800 7 compact model
Third .45 ACP 4566/4586 Stainless Steel /
Stainless Steel 200 108 1094 8
Third .45 ACP 4563/4583 Aluminium /
Stainless Steel 200 108 856 8
If you will please note, the Gardner selection of the ASP was based upon a highly limited edition handbuilt, and not the limited production run that was produced in the 1980's.
I do hope this display of both articles satisfies the idea that the origianl Asp was a 1940's design and the 1980 re-design was a limited and somewhat flawed attempt to replicate the original. Both models were built before widespread use of the +P loads, and it's not really too hard a concept to understand that any highly-modified frame, especially an alloy one, would not have the inherent strength that would allow it to be a frequent shooter. It was never designed to be a frequent shooter.
Look at what happened to Lee Jurris and the Auto-mag, good design ruined by poor execution.
The design of the ASP was down to Paris Theodore in the early seventies and Paris Theodore only. No one worked before him on this design, although a second person may have been involved with the development of the project. He started with a PPK, went over to a Browning Hi Power with various success and failure, and finally settled on the S&W 39. I am sure that if S&W did develop the ASP, even partially, then Theodore would have been sued considerably by them and not just shown the door after he presented them with the design. S&W famously stated during their meeting when Paris introduced the design to them, that a cut down pistol was not a viable seller and no one needed one. Paris dubbed it the NIH syndrome (NOT INVENTED HERE), and went home disapointed.
Several 59's were indeed converted to the Paris/ASP spec several years later by customers of Armament Systems, but due to the wider butt etc when the conversion was made and struts machined down for the mag to be visable through the lexan, it weakened the area and caused the frames to distort when fired, as you have mentioned. This never happened with the S&W 39 conversion and their frames are very sound. The only problem was the barrel bushing, which was changed. DG is correct about the screws being tightened causing the cracks, and not the stress of being fired.
As far as I know Mr H, all of the New York produced Asps are going strong, if production had not moved to Applegate, and corners cut on Mr Theodores redesign, then we would not see the problem that some of the non NY versions developed.
Saying that though, many of the non NY Asps were up to a high standard, and quite a few of them are still seeing active service... amazing. Wouldn't recommend +P's through em though.
You asked why there is no mention of the 1948 Asp. This is because the Asp was not even in anyones thoughts until another 20 years later.
SMITH AND WESSON HAD NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH ASP INVENTION, EVOLUTION, PRODUCTION OR DESIGN AT ALL.... SAVE FOR THE BASE MODEL 39 THE ASP WAS USING IN IT'S CONVERSION.
This is very well documented by Theodore and S&W. And ironically it was Smith and Wesson (not design faults) that put the ASP out of production.... by introducing the model 469. This was a relatively inexpensive gun compared to the ASP. It was also a very good little gun that evolved into the excellent and underrated model 3913.
If you see one of those 59 conversions, buy it. They will be worth a fortune, and I know of only two in existence. One of which was bought for $9K in 1996.
Paris Theodore did redesign the original ASP in the mid eighties. And although never released, it was based on the HK P7. I hope there is one of his prototypes still out there, as I just have to see what improvements he could possibly make to that gun. A great pity he is not around now to comment.
Thank you for putting mister H right. I wanted to but have been feeling a little drained of late and did not have the energy to go into all that. I will add that after Paris Theodore approched S&W and was denied, S&W ended up using a lot of Theodore's modifications on later guns. In essence S&W appropriated Theodore's work with out paying for it.
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Just as an extra bit of Bond info. John Gardner actually heard about the Asp through Geoffrey Boothroyds Handgun book which had the Applegate Asp in it. Gardner was also presented with an Asp by Smith and Wesson of all people, after using it for several years in the books. It had 007 added to the serial number, and is now in the hands of a collector after Gardner moved back to the UK.
During Gardners last few books, his memory became fuzzy on the subject of firearms and he incorrectly referred to it as a BHP conversion. This was also helped by the fact that he owned the BHP pocket version, which he gave Bond in Scorpius.
Benson wanted to continue Bonds association with the Asp, but was forced by the publishers to drop it in favour of the iconic PPK, which they thought readers had more of a connection to. Even the P99 was not allowed to take over as the main sidearm. It will be interesting to see what the next author will be allowed or indeed forced to use.
http://www.paristheodore.com/
Now was that a GMT on jubilee bracelet on his wrist
Here is another link to three pages of limited info on what Paris Theodore did during his life of designing real Q-stuff.
http://www.nysun.com/article/44151
and Im in process of purchasing,Quest for exc Model,
Any one who would like to sell there asp in anycondition
id be grateful for pics and price
regards
My friend shot his very few times. I don't recall any specifics but I don't think he ever got comfortable with the handling and the "guttersnipe" sight.
After keeping the ASP for a few years he sold it. I wish now I had the foresight to have bought it from him.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
also have devel and several 39-2 in pristine condition
anyone with asp pics to share?
regards
where there is an ASP and Devel are listed for
sale.
I have tried to find more detail on the Quell System as well, including a vendor of Quell System targets and any training materials that might have existed either before or after Paris Theodore's passing.
Ironically, I'd been trying to find Paris Theodore for two years prior to his passing in the hope of interviewing him for a book. I was crushed on Thanksgiving of 2006 when i learned of his passing earlier in the month.
However, I still got some ASP parts I like to sell
-ASP Sight
-Mag
-Mag Holder
etc.
Please email me sudakan@gmail.com
I will keep something though - may be one of the sight
Don't invite Bondtoys over when you move will you. He'll be like a kid in a sweet shop with all those ladyboys.
"How did he die" "Your contact, not well" ~ DC in CR
In terms of guns and collecting, it is considered the first "pocket nine" and it sparked a revolution. Because many gun manufacturers subsequently ripped off elements of the design of the ASP. Beyond that the design of the gun is somewhat shrouded in mystery and thought to be made for Company types and other agencies known to operate covertly while going into harm's way. It was not a gun you could buy outright. You had to buy a Smith and Wesson 39-2 and send it to Armament Systems and Procedures for it to be transformed into the ASP.
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Well, thanks. But we all know you are the real ASP expert. Now that is the gospel!
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Sorry, DG I must tell you that during his absence, he turned into a butterknife specialist.
About watches and guns he has no clue
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Too funny! But I must say, the ASP 9mm is a fascinating subject as is Paris Theodore the creator of the ASP. So Mr. Asp9mm has found a very worthy subject to be knowledgeable about. Personally, I'm always learning something new about the ASP and it's creator. It's just a very interesting piece of gun history even if you take away the Bond element. The fact that Geoffrey Boothroyd blessed the ASP in his tome The Handgun only adds to the patina of coolness.
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Can you believe it - all of them were once boys