Hi...Mo. The only way to prove it is to see the closed-caption version of the scene or even with official subtitles. So, it'll be a while before we can settle this for good. Which is why I'm willing to risk $40. )
Because subtitles are never wrong? They won't prove anything, I'm afraid.
Hi...Mo. The only way to prove it is to see the closed-caption version of the scene or even with official subtitles. So, it'll be a while before we can settle this for good. Which is why I'm willing to risk $40. )
Because subtitles are never wrong? They won't prove anything, I'm afraid.
I don't think the official Sony subtitles will be wrong, no. We may have to wait for the DVD, but even a clip on a talk show might reveal it.
Why? Official subtitles are made by some bloke sitting in a room watching the film and annotating a script, in exactly the same way we're watching it now. I've done it myself. There's nothing scientific about it and they don't get the opportunity to ask the actors and director what it was exactly that someone mumbled. I've seen loads of official subtitles which make the occasional obvious slip-up, not to say shortening lines etc.
A bloke with the script supervisor's revised shooting draft in hand can't figure things out? This isn't a mumble, em, it's a line in the script. If it was changed it would have been noted by said script supervisor. I can't remember the last time I watched a studio DVD where there were mistakes in the subtitles. In a closed-captioned TV show, yes, but not on a DVD. And honestly, I watch every movie with the subtitles on. It's a habit I got into and it often reveals stuff that I would otherwise miss. Trust me, we'll get our answer on the DVD. Or are you just trying to save Miles the money??
We all know that in the script she says "ass", so if the guy who does the subtitles uses that he will be wrong too. What if there is a difference between the R1 and R2 subtitles ?
I have noted that you have shaken my hand on the bet and I hope you pay up just as quick.
I do find it somewhat strange that most British people hear the correct word "arse" whilst most Americans hear the wrong word "ass" ?:)
You will be very lucky if I'm the only person to take your bet, benskelly - you would be severely out of pocket otherwise.
YNWA 97
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,762Chief of Staff
A bloke with the script supervisor's revised shooting draft in hand can't figure things out? This isn't a mumble, em, it's a line in the script. If it was changed it would have been noted by said script supervisor. I can't remember the last time I watched a studio DVD where there were mistakes in the subtitles. In a closed-captioned TV show, yes, but not on a DVD. And honestly, I watch every movie with the subtitles on. It's a habit I got into and it often reveals stuff that I would otherwise miss. Trust me, we'll get our answer on the DVD. Or are you just trying to save Miles the money??
It's not really the sort of thing he'd notice if we can't be sure. If she changed it, why would he even see a reason to note the change. I've done that job- you just sit in front of a screen with the shooting script and note the changes- and there are loads. Lines change around, get shortened.. there's an awful lot to take note of. Subtitles prove nothing more than simply us watching this clip; and we can't tell.
Actually; sorry- just watched this again for the first time since this argument began to see precisely what she's saying; and I'm baffled as to how she's supposed to be saying 'ass'. Are you thinking the deeper 'r' sound is due to a British pronounciation of the 'a' sound? Because South Eastern England RP accents (which is what she's going for here) pronounce the word 'ass' in exactly the same way an American accent does- it's a shallow 'aah' sound; not the 'arr' which you'll often get on British 'a's. You just have to watch her jaw movement to see it's not a shallow sound she's making. To make the 'aah' sound you open your mouth wider and jaw less so, to make an 'arr' sound it's a wider opening and tighter lip. I'm confused as to how there's confusion.
The word 'ass' is pronounced exactly the same with this British accent as with an American; and it doesn't sound like an American saying 'ass' to me.
A British woman would probably say 'bum' in real-life but then 'bum', I think I'm right in saying, has a different meaning in the United States.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited September 2006
Personally, my favourite aspect of this particular scene is the response, by The New Guy.
"You noticed." :007)
Delivery is, IMRO, everything. Hopefully, this represents the overall tack they'll be taking with humour this time round. {[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Benskally, Sir Miles, Emtiem, instead of arguing about this, why don't you get off your butts and see the film when it's out so you can judge for yourself.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Em, guess what? I still think you're wrong. As we've said (a few of us), I think it's her accent that is fooling you and the rest of the Brits. She makes the A too soft if you will - and she's also not stressing it, almost swallowing it, as if the directness of the word embarasses her a little. This is her imitation of an English person. The word is ass. We will find out the answer. And no matter how many times you guys try to browbeat me into hearing it your way, it's not going to work. Let's move on.
So you're saying she's trying to say 'ass' but pronouncing it 'arse' because she's got the accent wrong? Er....
The script's already damned with the whole armour dialogue. Several minor variations in there from as read to as said. "You stripped it off me and tossed it away" turns into "You've stripped it from me" and "Whatever is left of me," doesn't have the "of me" in writing. Unless Vesper's preceeding sentence is edited, there's some variation there too. So the script isn't absolutely verbatim anyway.
Just listened to the line three more times. There is no R. Nothing remotely resembling an R. Not a soft R, not any R. She says "perfectly formed ah-ss". Not an R in sight.
Yup, even up here in the land of the rolling Rs, where it's pronounced somewhat significantly heavier to that in the south east, there's only a soft R in arse. And that is, as I say, heavier pronounced than in most parts of England, where it's most definitely "ahss".
Yup, even up here in the land of the rolling Rs, where it's pronounced somewhat significantly heavier to that in the south east, there's only a soft R in arse.
Absolutely. British pronounciation of the 'a' is naturally deepened in that word to an 'aah' (as in 'say aah and open wide'). We pronounce 'ass' in exactly the same way as an American does; with a shallow, sharp a. And that's not what she's using.
Well I guess I've been saying "arse" all these years when I said "ass" and I didn't know it.
Debbie Harry's "Once I had a love and it was a gas, soon turned out to be a pain in the ass" - is a very different pronounciation than what Eva is saying. Ass rhymes with gas. What Eva's saying doesn't.
It's silly, yes, but when you're shrugging off the way a whole nation pronounces a word with 8-), then it appears patronising and those who pronounce it that way won't let it go.
Ok guys, I swear next time as SpectreIsland and myself have discussed, whoever is the Bond girl will say "culo" and not ass. That is pronounced as it is written, it only means one thing, and there is no way whatsoever to mess up the word. Eight pages talking about Bond's ass. That must be a record! )
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
Eva Green is NOT BRITISH. You guys said Pierce spoke in some weird American-British (or Mid-Atlantic) hybrid...why does it seem so impossible to you that the same thing is happening here??
Because we know a good British pronounciation when we hear one. She's pronouncing 'arse' perfectly for a British accent; the accent she is adopting for the film. 'Ass' sounds entirely different. Pierce's accent wasn't entirely British and we could spot that for the same reason. You're comparing a good accent with a bad one and saying we're hypocrites for not doing so ?:)
(There's no slight against Pierce there, incidentally- his accent wasn't appalling and I don't think you need to get embroiled in having a perfect accent to be a star in a movie- just ask Sean Connery!)
(There's no slight against Pierce there, incidentally- his accent wasn't appalling and I don't think you need to get embroiled in having a perfect accent to be a star in a movie- just ask Sean Connery!)
?:) Connery'sh acshent shoundsh jusht shuper in theshe partsh... but of courshe he'd shay "arshe"!
Comments
Cheers, lads. And now wait for non-Scots (I'm counting you in OUR clan, royalmile!) to start asking for explanations
I've told you that I'm more than prepared to take your money off you - only an arse would keep banging on about the word being ass and get it wrong.
Why wait for the subtitles when you can use your ears to hear the word arse - are you waiting for the exchange rate to favour you ?
Because subtitles are never wrong? They won't prove anything, I'm afraid.
Ah yes- love that one: often heard on the Hamish and Dougal sketches on Radio 4!
Why? Official subtitles are made by some bloke sitting in a room watching the film and annotating a script, in exactly the same way we're watching it now. I've done it myself. There's nothing scientific about it and they don't get the opportunity to ask the actors and director what it was exactly that someone mumbled. I've seen loads of official subtitles which make the occasional obvious slip-up, not to say shortening lines etc.
Thanks guys. I'll jist dry the tear frae my eye. {[]
I wonder which word Myrddin would say it is? ?:)
We all know that in the script she says "ass", so if the guy who does the subtitles uses that he will be wrong too. What if there is a difference between the R1 and R2 subtitles ?
I have noted that you have shaken my hand on the bet and I hope you pay up just as quick.
I do find it somewhat strange that most British people hear the correct word "arse" whilst most Americans hear the wrong word "ass" ?:)
You will be very lucky if I'm the only person to take your bet, benskelly - you would be severely out of pocket otherwise.
I wouldn't know - I've never lost
Never say never....;%
It's not really the sort of thing he'd notice if we can't be sure. If she changed it, why would he even see a reason to note the change. I've done that job- you just sit in front of a screen with the shooting script and note the changes- and there are loads. Lines change around, get shortened.. there's an awful lot to take note of. Subtitles prove nothing more than simply us watching this clip; and we can't tell.
The word 'ass' is pronounced exactly the same with this British accent as with an American; and it doesn't sound like an American saying 'ass' to me.
"You noticed." :007)
Delivery is, IMRO, everything. Hopefully, this represents the overall tack they'll be taking with humour this time round. {[]
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
So you're saying she's trying to say 'ass' but pronouncing it 'arse' because she's got the accent wrong? Er....
Yes; ah-ss; that's how arse is pronounced.
Absolutely. British pronounciation of the 'a' is naturally deepened in that word to an 'aah' (as in 'say aah and open wide'). We pronounce 'ass' in exactly the same way as an American does; with a shallow, sharp a. And that's not what she's using.
It's silly, yes, but when you're shrugging off the way a whole nation pronounces a word with 8-), then it appears patronising and those who pronounce it that way won't let it go.
It's obviously arse.
Because we know a good British pronounciation when we hear one. She's pronouncing 'arse' perfectly for a British accent; the accent she is adopting for the film. 'Ass' sounds entirely different. Pierce's accent wasn't entirely British and we could spot that for the same reason. You're comparing a good accent with a bad one and saying we're hypocrites for not doing so ?:)
(There's no slight against Pierce there, incidentally- his accent wasn't appalling and I don't think you need to get embroiled in having a perfect accent to be a star in a movie- just ask Sean Connery!)
?:) Connery'sh acshent shoundsh jusht shuper in theshe partsh... but of courshe he'd shay "arshe"!