The 20 Greatest Comic Book Movies

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  • NightshooterNightshooter In bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
    Man, good thing Tony is here to keep us all in check.:D
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,307MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    Man, good thing Tony is here to keep us all in check.:D

    I just call 'em like I see 'em. Besides, where would Dan Same be without me? {:) :v
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent Speeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    TonyDP wrote:
    - With regard to Megan Fox: I honestly don't think she will ever be Wonder Woman either. While I think she could pull off the character (she defintely has that combination of sex appeal and imposing presence that I mentioned) she strikes me as too much of an immature rebel to be attached to something like that. She freaks out at the mere mention of her lifestyle or tattoos (and then promptly goes and gets another one etched onto her - at the rate she's going she should pass Angelina Jolie by the end of the month). She really needs to grow up a little, because with her kind of attitude, she'll wear out her welcome pretty quickly.


    Hmm. Well this is news to me seeing that I've hardly kept up with her body of work (other than Transformers) nor cared to follow her off-the clock indiscretions. She really has an attitude, huh?

    For me, on top of other misgivings I have of her, solidifies why I wouldn't prefer her as Wonder Woman. 8-)
    Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"

    Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
    -Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
  • NightshooterNightshooter In bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
    Read her GQ interview. Apparently at some point in her life she fell in love with a female stripper and tried to get the stripper to run away with her, or something like that.
    God I love this woman.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    TonyDP wrote:
    With regard to Megan Gale, she will never be Wonder Woman for one simple reason: she is a complete non-entity who hasn't been within a thousand miles of an even moderately mainstream film or TV show.
    The problem with this though is that George Miller has long enthused about her. Yes, the studio might overturn him, but the fact that the director loves her automatically means that she is in with a real chance.
    TonyDP wrote:
    I just call 'em like I see 'em. Besides, where would Dan Same be without me? {:) :v
    Yes, indeed? :)) -{
    Read her GQ interview. Apparently at some point in her life she fell in love with a female stripper and tried to get the stripper to run away with her, or something like that.
    :)) Sounds like one hell of a woman. :D
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Willie GarvinWillie Garvin Posts: 1,412MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    I'd really prefer that the actress who is selected to play Wonder Woman actually LOOK like Wonder Woman--rather than just be someone who was signed because audiences are already familiar with her.One of the great things about Lynda Carter's turn as WW,was that she was a talented unknown who looked absolutely right as the character.And this allowed her to "become" Wonder Woman in a way many better known actresses could not hope to match.Like Christopher Reeve with Superman,Lynda Carter became the living personification of her character.

    I think Megan Fox is cute, but she's much too slim and small to be credible as Wonder Woman.By contrast,the less well-known(at least to me)Megan Gale comes closer to the mark for Wonder Woman.She already resembles the Amazon princess facially,and I doubt it would take much effort to turn her into an even closer approximation of the character as currently depicted in the comics.Gale certainly has the shapely(yet athletic) physique to wear the famous costume with the proper amounts of authority and cheesecake.

    Frankly,I can't see that happening as successfully with the physically smaller Fox,who,in the WW costume,would probably look more like a pretty little girl who is all dressed up for a masquerade party, rather than garbed for some serious throwdowns as Wonder Woman.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent Speeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
    I'd really prefer that the actress who is selected to play Wonder Woman actually LOOK like Wonder Woman--rather than just be someone who was signed because audiences are already familiar with her.One of the great things about Lynda Carter's turn as WW,was that she was a talented unknown who looked absolutely right as the character.And this allowed her to "become" Wonder Woman in a way many better known actresses could not hope to match.Like Christopher Reeve with Superman,Lynda Carter became the living personification of her character.

    I think Megan Fox is cute, but she's much too slim and small to be credible as Wonder Woman.By contrast,the less well-known(at least to me)Megan Gale comes closer to the mark for Wonder Woman.She already resembles the Amazon princess facially,and I doubt it would take much effort to turn her into an even closer approximation of the character as currently depicted in the comics.Gale certainly has the shapely(yet athletic) physique to wear the famous costume with the proper amounts of authority and cheesecake.

    Frankly,I can't see that happening as successfully with the physically smaller Fox,who,in the WW costume,would probably look more like a pretty little girl who is all dressed up for a masquerade party, rather than garbed for some serious throwdowns as Wonder Woman.

    I agree wholeheartedly, W.G.! {[]
    Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"

    Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
    -Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent Speeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    Well since the Gale/Fox arguement is at an impasse, I thought this bit of news might be something we can agree on :D :



    Joe Johnston to Direct Captain America!
    Source:Marvel Studios November 9, 2008



    Joe Johnston has signed on to direct Marvel Studios' First Avenger: Captain America, based on characters developed by Jack Kirby and Joe Simon. The film will be produced by Marvel Studios' President Kevin Feige. Executive Producers on the project are Louis D'Esposito, Stan Lee and Marvel Studios' Chairman David Maisel. Paramount Pictures will distribute First Avenger: Captain America worldwide. The film will come to theaters domestically on May 6, 2011.

    Here's the official logline: In the early days of the Marvel Universe, Steve Rogers volunteers to participate in an experimental program that turns him into the Super Soldier known as Captain America.

    Johnston is currently directing The Wolfman, which hits theaters on April 3. He is developing The Death and Life of Charlie St. Cloud. Johnston previously directed October Sky, Jumanji, Jurassic Park III, The Rocketeer and Honey, I Shrunk the Kids. Johnston won an Academy Award® in 1982 for Best Visual Effects for Raiders of the Lost Ark.

    Marvel Studios most recently announced an agreement with Raleigh Studios to film each of its next four films at Raleigh’s facility in Manhattan Beach, CA which will include First Avenger: Captain America.
    Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"

    Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
    -Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
  • darenhatdarenhat The Old PuebloPosts: 2,029Quartermasters
    While Joe Johnston has often been considered a second-rate Steven Spielberg, I actually have found a lot of enjoyment in his films. He's competent and capable. If the Captain America film is to be a WWII story, then I think Johnston has proven his chops with his other period comic book adaptation The Rocketeer ...which is one of my favorites, BTW.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    darenhat wrote:
    While Joe Johnston has often been considered a second-rate Steven Spielberg, I actually have found a lot of enjoyment in his films. He's competent and capable. If the Captain America film is to be a WWII story, then I think Johnston has proven his chops with his other period comic book adaptation The Rocketeer ...which is one of my favorites, BTW.

    I agree, DH. Rocketeer was quite a lot of fun, and I think Joe Johnston can be trusted to not screw up what may well be the most challenging superhero adaptation so far.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
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  • RogueAgentRogueAgent Speeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    I'm just glad the Cap movie is moving forward. B-)

    Here's a trip down memory lane...can anyone remember this one? :D


    GUYBANNER_1.jpg
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    Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"

    Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
    -Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
  • darenhatdarenhat The Old PuebloPosts: 2,029Quartermasters
    darenhat wrote:
    While Joe Johnston has often been considered a second-rate Steven Spielberg, I actually have found a lot of enjoyment in his films. He's competent and capable. If the Captain America film is to be a WWII story, then I think Johnston has proven his chops with his other period comic book adaptation The Rocketeer ...which is one of my favorites, BTW.

    I agree, DH. Rocketeer was quite a lot of fun, and I think Joe Johnston can be trusted to not screw up what may well be the most challenging superhero adaptation so far.

    Johnston as director brings Bill Campbell to mind...he might make a good star-spangled avenger...

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  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,307MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    Joe Johnston also directed Jurassic Park 3, which I found to be a thoroughly entertaining thrill ride of a film. I think he's a terrific choice to direct Cap as well. Now all we need is some casting news.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    I recently saw Max Payne (not great :# and saw 1 1/2 previews for films which excite me. I say 1 1/2, because I arrived in the theatre just as the trailer for Terminator: Salvation was finishing. I won't say much about it except that of what I saw, the trailer looked great, which is important as, Tony, Alex and Rogue, the Terminator films are as important to me as Batman, ST, Green Lantern and IM are to you. :v If the new film isn't up to scratch, I won't be very happy. ;)

    However, the reason I'm actually posting is because, while I only caught the end of the trailer for the new Terminator film, I saw the entire trailer for Watchmen and it looks magnificent. :D
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent Speeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
    Captain Marvel Moves to Warner Bros.
    Source:Variety November 20, 2008



    Variety reports that Get Smart director Peter Segal and his Callahan Filmworks partner Michael Ewing have signed a three-year first-look deal with Warner Bros. Pictures.

    As part of the deal, Warner Bros. has also acquired the John August-scripted Captain Marvel; Segal will direct the DC Comics adaptation. He and Ewing began working on the film two years ago at New Line, but the property has moved over to Warner Bros.

    The film tells the story of teenaged Billy Batson, who transforms into the superhero when he says the word "Shazam!"
    Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"

    Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
    -Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
  • NightshooterNightshooter In bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
    Captain Marvel... yuck.

    To me, he is the "Spy Kids" of the Super Hero world.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent Speeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
    Captain Marvel... yuck.

    To me, he is the "Spy Kids" of the Super Hero world.

    Yes, I remember your angst for the Big Red Cheese, Night. I on the other hand, think it's cool he's finally coming to the big screen seeing that I slightly favor him over Superman.

    The JLU ep CLASH was soooo bias when they squared off. Marvel can handle Superman. X-(
    Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"

    Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
    -Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
  • NightshooterNightshooter In bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
    You'd think I would prefer him to Superman, as I dislike Superman, too, but I think I prefer Supes.

    I didn't see the JLU ep, but I read Batman/Superman, where Superman admitted that Marvel had beaten him before. However, Supes still managed to trick Marvel and defeat him.

    Eh, Batman could kick both their asses.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent Speeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
    Eh, Batman could kick both their asses.

    This might be considered favoritist by me but...


    B-)
    Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"

    Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
    -Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    Spidey could kick all their asses, and still be home in time for some nice home baked pie. :p :))

    Now, before I get any protests, I would like to officially announce that in the next couple of days I will have an official announcement. :v
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,307MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    Dan Same wrote:
    Spidey could kick all their asses, and still be home in time for some nice home baked pie. :p :))

    Let's see...

    Superman could melt his webbing from a mile away with his X-Ray vision, causing him to fall to his death onto the streets below.

    Shazam could incinerate him with a lightning bolt, causing him to fall to his death onto the streets below.

    Batman could come up with a serum to negate his spider mutation and inject him as he's jumping between buildings, causing him to fall to his death onto the streets below.

    Or they could just leave him alone and make him put up with Aunt May, who will make him wheat cakes (not apple pie, she can't afford the ingredients on her pension) while she tells him stories about how Uncle Ben used to court her when she was a young phillie, back in the 1860s. At which point, Spiderman will climb the highest building in New York and jump to his death onto the streets below.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    I must say, Tony, that was quite mean of you. :# Especially since I announced that I would soon be announcing some interesting news. ;)
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,307MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    Dan Same wrote:
    I must say, Tony, that was quite mean of you. :# Especially since I announced that I would soon be announcing some interesting news. ;)

    Sorry Dan, its been an unusually busy Friday here at work and I'm a little grumpy. I should have just killed the old bag and left it at that. :))

    I wonder, could this announcement pertain to somebody finally reading an actual, honest to goodness comic book?

    RogueAgent wrote:
    Eh, Batman could kick both their asses.

    This might be considered favoritist by me but...


    B-)

    smbmcover29a8ou.jpg

    'nuff said. :v
  • NightshooterNightshooter In bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
    actually, Tony, Bats would just cut Spiderman's webbing in half with well aimed batarangs.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent Speeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    TonyDP wrote:
    RogueAgent wrote:
    Eh, Batman could kick both their asses.

    This might be considered favoritist by me but...


    B-)

    smbmcover29a8ou.jpg

    'nuff said.


    Hmmm....the likelihood of two GLs handling Superman & Batman when Bats already has a contingency in place on how to handle any GL he comes across is a little out there. In case Hal or Guy or even John decides to go rogue, Bats will utilize his resources. He was kicked out of the League a few years back because of that very plan. It ****ed the other members off royally.

    Supes would kick Kilowag's ass to the point that it's ridiculous and I love Kilowag. Also, within reason, any comic writer can manipulate the outcome just enough without jumping the shark.

    But for the sake of fun, let Robin take care of the Batman's lightweight. :p

    NEAL ADAMS, BABY!!!!
    18164-124022-3-all-star-batman--ro_.jpg

    'nuff said. {:)
    Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"

    Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
    -Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,906Chief of Staff
    Back to the Shazam! news: I've waxed enthusiastic about the idea of a Big Red Cheese movie in these pages, and I won't repeat myself; but I will re-emphasize the fact a Captain Marvel movie has to be done right. It needs to be a fantasy with a light touch, more Chris Reeves's Superman than Chris Nolan's Dark Knight. But will that go over in this day and age? I've long been concerned over the news the movie will focus on Black Adam, Cap's "dark side," as it were, and that more care has gone into casting him than Captain Marvel himself. Frankly, I'd much rather see the Cheese square off against Sivana and one of his evil schemes for world domination than to take on an evil version of himself.

    Alas, DC has just never really known what to do with this wonderful character. I just finished the Kingdom Come graphic novel, which I enjoyed except for one thing--what was done with Captain Marvel. He doesn't fit in the dark, gritty world of Batman et. al.--let him have his own world, where there isn't a Superman for him to compete with and where villains are talking worms rather than psychopaths.

    A couple of related musings: my reservation about Cap aside, I think Kingdom Come itself would make an interesting movie. If anything, there are a lot of 50- and 60-something actors who would be excellent as the elderly superheroes. Bruce Willis as the bald-headed Ollie Queen, anyone?

    Also, will this proposed movie actually be called Captain Marvel? Last I heard, Marvel had this title absolutely sewn up, which is why the comic book has to be called Shazam! and why even the action figures have to be labeled "Shazam!" or, at best, "The World's Mightiest Mortal."
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,307MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    RogueAgent wrote:
    Hmmm....the likelihood of two GLs handling Superman & Batman when Bats already has a contingency in place on how to handle any GL he comes across is a little out there. In case Hal or Guy or even John decides to go rogue, Bats will utilize his resources. He was kicked out of the League a few years back because of that very plan. It ****ed the other members off royally.

    I guess that's why they were all so happy and impressed when Hal knocked Batman out with one punch during the climax of Green Lantern: Rebirth. {:)
    But for the sake of fun, let Robin take care of the Batman's lightweight. :p

    I see Frank Miller's name at the top of that book. You know what I think of him; and as I recall, you yourself said old Frank was just phoning it in and cashing a paycheck. Lightweight indeed! :p

    Boy, you really don't have much of a sense of humor when it comes to Batman, do you. ;)


    Hardyboy wrote:
    Back to the Shazam! news: I've waxed enthusiastic about the idea of a Big Red Cheese movie in these pages, and I won't repeat myself; but I will re-emphasize the fact a Captain Marvel movie has to be done right. It needs to be a fantasy with a light touch, more Chris Reeves's Superman than Chris Nolan's Dark Knight. But will that go over in this day and age? I've long been concerned over the news the movie will focus on Black Adam, Cap's "dark side," as it were, and that more care has gone into casting him than Captain Marvel himself. Frankly, I'd much rather see the Cheese square off against Sivana and one of his evil schemes for world domination than to take on an evil version of himself.

    Alas, DC has just never really known what to do with this wonderful character. I just finished the Kingdom Come graphic novel, which I enjoyed except for one thing--what was done with Captain Marvel. He doesn't fit in the dark, gritty world of Batman et. al.--let him have his own world, where there isn't a Superman for him to compete with and where villains are talking worms rather than psychopaths.

    That's my concern as well, especially in light of the fact that given Dark Knight's success WB now seems intent on exploring these heroes dark sides, "to the extent that the characters will allow it" as WB suit Jeff Robinov put it.
    A couple of related musings: my reservation about Cap aside, I think Kingdom Come itself would make an interesting movie. If anything, there are a lot of 50- and 60-something actors who would be excellent as the elderly superheroes. Bruce Willis as the bald-headed Ollie Queen, anyone?

    You'd probably need to reduce the roster drastically to make it filmable. Another route would be to do it as a big budget animated feature, where you'd have more liberty to stay true to some of those more outlandish character designs.
    Also, will this proposed movie actually be called Captain Marvel? Last I heard, Marvel had this title absolutely sewn up, which is why the comic book has to be called Shazam! and why even the action figures have to be labeled "Shazam!" or, at best, "The World's Mightiest Mortal."

    I'm sure they can work out some arrangement, and failing that, they'll could probably get away with calling it SHAZAM!, just as long as nobody confuses it with KAZAM!
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent Speeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    TonyDP wrote:
    RogueAgent wrote:
    Hmmm....the likelihood of two GLs handling Superman & Batman when Bats already has a contingency in place on how to handle any GL he comes across is a little out there. In case Hal or Guy or even John decides to go rogue, Bats will utilize his resources. He was kicked out of the League a few years back because of that very plan. It ****ed the other members off royally.

    I guess that's why they were all so happy and impressed when Hal knocked Batman out with one punch during the climax of Green Lantern: Rebirth. {:)

    I didn't read the last part of that story but I've heard about it. Bats can be a cad most times; even I realize that. Try reading WAR GAMES sometimes.
    Hal and Bruce have never particularly mixed well but they respect one another. Like I also wrote previously, any comic writer can manipulate the outcome; seeing it was a GL book, how did you think that was supposed to go down?
    But for the sake of fun, let Robin take care of the Batman's lightweight. :p
    I see Frank Miller's name at the top of that book. You know what I think of him; and as I recall, you yourself said old Frank was just phoning it in and cashing a paycheck. Lightweight indeed! :p

    I said it was all in fun and yes, I hate All-Star Batman. With the exception of the Adams' cover.
    Boy, you really don't have much of a sense of humor when it comes to Batman, do you. ;)

    As much as I love The Bat, I really got a good laugh at that. ;)
    Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"

    Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
    -Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,307MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    RogueAgent wrote:
    I didn't read the last part of that story but I've heard about it. Bats can be a cad most times; even I realize that. Try reading WAR GAMES sometimes.

    Its funny you mention that as that's one of the things that turned me off about how Batman was often portrayed in the books from the late 90s and onward. I'm not up with the character lately, but back then some writers would make him be the contrarian to the point where it became absurd. I remember during the climax to Final Night, after Superman and the rest of the world's heroes have failed to stop the Sun-Eater and Earth is all but doomed, Batman still resists Hal's offer to help, seemingly preferring to let the world come to an end instead admitting that Parallax is their only chance to be saved. Likewise his secretly keeping files on all the JLA members weaknesses was a very sleazy thing that pushed the character's methods too far. Its one thing to be a badass, but that kind of "bad cop" for the sake of being a bad cop mentalily was very one dimensional and just took the character's dark sensibilities too far for me.

    One of the things the Infinite Crisis storyline was supposed to do was pull back that kind of stuff and not make the characters so dark; though I don't know if that stuck or not since then.

    Oh, and next time you see Frank Miller, tell him that Green Lanterns with real willpower no longer have the weakness to yellow. ;)
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent Speeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
    edited November 2008
    TonyDP wrote:
    Oh, and next time you see Frank Miller, tell him that Green Lanterns with real willpower no longer have the weakness to yellow. ;)

    I'm not going out of my way to speak to him. Why me? :)) :))

    Those who do are the ones drinking the Kool-Aid. Unfortunately, Miller's fame ends with his Daredevil arc for me. You have Miller to blame for the direction of Batman. In All-Star, he makes out with Black Canary on the spot right after rounding up thugs, gets off and then curses her out. She's nothing more than a glorified hooker at best because Bats talks & treats her as such 8-) . As a matter of fact, Bats treats all women like hookers under Miller...makes me wonder about the psyche of the author if you get my drift...

    Every other writer has taken his cue and made the character what he is today. I won't buy his regular title as long as Grant Morrison's writing it. Utter drivel. 8-)

    Personally, I'd like a return to some sort of happy medium ala, Denny O'Neil & Giordano. :(
    Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"

    Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
    -Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
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