Jewish characters

Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
edited December 2006 in James Bond Literature
Is it true that many of Fleming's novels featured Jewish characters and that in fact Le Chiffre was part-Jewish? (I'm asking simply as a matter of curiosity since I myself am Jewish. ;))
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman

Comments

  • A7ceA7ce Birmingham, EnglandPosts: 656MI6 Agent
    I don't know, but would that necesarily make a difference in my viewing / reading pleasure? I don't think so, i'd just be enjoying a ripping yarn whether the characters were jewish, indian, african, Italian, French ( as they have been to date in films)
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,868Chief of Staff
    Dan Same wrote:
    Is it true that many of Fleming's novels featured Jewish characters and that in fact Le Chiffre was part-Jewish? (I'm asking simply as a matter of curiosity since I myself am Jewish. ;))

    Le Chiffre's background is unknown, but the dossier M reads in the second chapter speculates that his ancestry is "a mixture of Mediterranean with Prussian or Polish strains" and that he may have "some Jewish blood".

    There's a lot of old fashioned imperialism or racism etc in Fleming which reads somewhat disconcertingly today- eg, LALD's view of black characters is downright patronising- which is something he has in common with his contemporaries, eg Agatha Christie (some of whose words and phrases were rewritten for other countries).
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,906Chief of Staff
    Fleming doesn't come right out and say it, but there's a strong hint that Goldfinger is Jewish. Fleming's "Colonel Smithers" explains that Goldfinger came as a refugee from Riga, Latvia, in 1937--a time when many Jews were escaping eastern Europe, and for good reason--and that his family business is goldsmithing and jewelery, in which many Jews were and are involved. Then there's the greed and the red hair, classic stereotypes of Jewishness. . .
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 4,109MI6 Agent
    Dan Same are you becoming tempted to read the books?
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited December 2006
    Thanks guys. :) I'm asking because my local Jewish paper ran a story about it.
    Dan Same are you becoming tempted to read the books?
    At this moment, no. However as the saying goes, never say never. :D
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Willie GarvinWillie Garvin Posts: 1,412MI6 Agent
    edited December 2006
    Ian Fleming based "Le Chiffre"'s facial/physical appearance on that of the infamous Alistair Crowley--who was British, and was probably at one point during his life, a member of the Church of England.At any rate,he wasn't Jewish.

    The literary Le Chiffre bears no outward resemblance whatsoever to actor Mads Mikkelsen as he looks in the Eon Casino Royale motion picture.
  • Scribe74Scribe74 San FranciscoPosts: 149MI6 Agent
    And then there's this passage from MOONRAKER when M. is briefing Bond on Sir Hugo Drax's bridge playing:

    "We always cut for partners after each rubber," said M. "Unless there's a challenge. And on guest nights, Mondays and Thursdays, you stick to your guest. Drax nearly always bring a man called Meyer, his metal broker. Nice chap. Jew. Very fine player."
  • SpectreBlofeldSpectreBlofeld AroundPosts: 364MI6 Agent
    edited December 2006
    Is he saying Meyer was Jewish or Drax?

    'Cause Drax was a Nazi and all...

    Strange for a Nazi to be hanging out with a Jew after the war...
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,868Chief of Staff
    Is he saying Meyer was Jewish or Drax?

    'Cause Drax was a Nazi and all...

    Strange for a Nazi to be hanging out with a Jew after the war...

    More strange for a Jew to be hanging around with a Nazi, I would think, but Meyer (who is the Jewish one, not Drax) thought, as did everyone else, that Drax was from the Liverpool area of England.
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    Scribe74 wrote:
    And then there's this passage from MOONRAKER when M. is briefing Bond on Sir Hugo Drax's bridge playing:

    "We always cut for partners after each rubber," said M. "Unless there's a challenge. And on guest nights, Mondays and Thursdays, you stick to your guest. Drax nearly always bring a man called Meyer, his metal broker. Nice chap. Jew. Very fine player."

    Those sort of "casual" references always make me uneasy. It's kind of tossed in there as a descriptive, but why and what exactly is it supposed to describe? I'm sure that there are Jews among my circle of friends and acquaintances, but I'd be hard-pressed to say who. Anymore than I could say who was a Catholic or a Protestant or an atheist.
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 4,109MI6 Agent
    it helps describe Ms character
    Ms a bit "old school"
    I gather from Bonds reactions to the things M says that M was "old school" even in the 50s
    remember the bit in OHMSS where he appreciates the way the Swiss deal with thier "Beatnik problem"
  • Lazenby880Lazenby880 LondonPosts: 525MI6 Agent
    edited December 2006
    highhopes wrote:
    Scribe74 wrote:
    And then there's this passage from MOONRAKER when M. is briefing Bond on Sir Hugo Drax's bridge playing:

    "We always cut for partners after each rubber," said M. "Unless there's a challenge. And on guest nights, Mondays and Thursdays, you stick to your guest. Drax nearly always bring a man called Meyer, his metal broker. Nice chap. Jew. Very fine player."

    Those sort of "casual" references always make me uneasy. It's kind of tossed in there as a descriptive, but why and what exactly is it supposed to describe? I'm sure that there are Jews among my circle of friends and acquaintances, but I'd be hard-pressed to say who. Anymore than I could say who was a Catholic or a Protestant or an atheist.
    I can certainly understand your discomfort in this regard highhopes, as any sort of stereotyping like this is really unacceptable. That said, Fleming is not depicting said stereotype in a negative light, unlike one of his main predecessors in the genre John Buchan. Consider this from The Thirty-Nine Steps (1915):

    "Capital, he said, had no conscience and no fatherland. Besides, the Jew was behind it, and the Jew hated Russia worse than hell. 'Do you wonder?' he cried. 'For three hundred years they have been persecuted, and this is the return match for the pogroms. The Jew is everywhere, but you have to go far down the backstairs to find him ... But if you're on the biggest kind of job and are bound to get to the real boss, ten to one you are brought up against a little white-faced Jew in a bath-chair with an eye like a rattlesnake. Yes, Sir, he is the man who is ruling the world just now, and he has his knife in the Empire of the Tzar, because his aunt was outraged and his father flogged in some one-horse location on the Volga.' I could not help saying that his Jew-anarchists seemed to have got left behind a little."

    While Buchan remains a readable writer for many reasons, this sort of thing is repellent, and in comparison Fleming seems positively progressive. Fleming's remark in Moonraker is more reminiscent of Eric Ambler, who in Uncommon Danger (1937) wrote:

    "He had no money whatever in Vienna. He was going there with the faint hope that a Jewish instrument maker he knew would lend him some. Kenton had been able to help him get his family out of Munich in the bad days of 1934 and the instrument maker had been grateful. But, for all Kenton knew, his old friend might have left Vienna. Or he might have no money to lend. That, Kenton told himself, would be far worse. He would have to explain that it didn't matter really, and the little man would feel miserable. Jews were sensitive about such things."

    Again, this is a casual reference and a generalisation, however it is not at all negative. Ambler was one of the most sophisticated of thriller writers and even though the stereotype was utilised, as it was by most writers of that time, Fleming did not display any prejudice like Buchan et al did.
  • GrishenkoGrishenko Posts: 45MI6 Agent
    I believe one of the gangsters in Scaramanga's investment group is described as Jewish, possibly the one that he murders during the meeting and buries in the swamp...
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    There are also Jewish links in Goldfinger - such as the mention of an area in the United States where Jews were still debarred from in the 1950s. I remember reading that somewhere, anyway!
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • SherbrookSherbrook Melbourne AustraliaPosts: 137MI6 Agent
    Many people of Fleming's generation were anti-Semitic

    They inherited their parents' attitudes

    BTW I've read elsewhere that Fleming may have based his villains on real-life figures like Onassis and Howard Hughes
    I must be dreaming
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,868Chief of Staff
    There are also Jewish links in Goldfinger - such as the mention of an area in the United States where Jews were still debarred from in the 1950s. I remember reading that somewhere, anyway!

    Correct; Mr Du Pont rules out Goldfinger being Jewish because "we're restricted at the Floridiana. Wouldn't have got in if he had been". A few pages later, Bond himself decides that Goldfinger is "not a Jew- though there may be Jewish blood in him" before further speculation leads him to conclude that Auric is a Balt.
  • Shady TreeShady Tree London, UKPosts: 2,998MI6 Agent
    edited February 2013
    On Drax's cards partnership with Meyer:
    Strange for a Nazi to be hanging out with a Jew after the war...

    Their relationship is uncomfortably dysfunctional. Unaware of Drax's past, Meyer oddly addresses him with old-boys familiarity, as "Hugger", but Drax bullies him horridly.

    Another implausible relationship is Drax's conspiracy with Communist Russia over his Moonraker plot. His WW2 experiences were apparently on the Western Front, where his hatred of the English was exacerbated; but, even so, as a Nazi who's never stopped being a Nazi, he would also have detested the Russians. (In LLD, Mr Big's ties with SMERSH are equally unconvincing: the Soviet link seems like an ideological connection too far for a black New York gangster who's developed a voodoo cult).
    Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    Shady Tree wrote:
    On Drax's cards partnership with Meyer:
    Strange for a Nazi to be hanging out with a Jew after the war...

    Their relationship is uncomfortably dysfunctional. Unaware of Drax's past, Meyer oddly addresses him with old-boys familiarity, as "Hugger", but Drax bullies him horridly.

    Another implausible relationship is Drax's conspiracy with Communist Russia over his Moonraker plot. His WW2 experiences were apparently on the Western Front, where his hatred of the English was exacerbated; but, even so, as a Nazi who's never stopped being a Nazi, he would also have detested the Russians. (In LLD, Mr Big's ties with SMERSH are equally unconvincing: the Soviet link seems like an ideological connection too far for a black New York gangster who's developed a voodoo cult).

    Very interesting observations, there, Shady Tree. Thanks for sharing - and I also think you have a point there! I never really bought Drax's conversion to the side of the Soviets either - neo-Nazis might have been a better example (though where they'd get an atomic warhead God alone knows), but Moonraker still remains my favourite Bond novel nevertheless!
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • RevelatorRevelator Posts: 604MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    Is it true that many of Fleming's novels featured Jewish characters and that in fact Le Chiffre was part-Jewish? (I'm asking simply as a matter of curiosity since I myself am Jewish. ;))

    It's not true. Aside from LeChiffre's possible part-Jewishness, there are no major Jewish characters in the books. Fleming doesn't seem to have been an anti-semite, and the books have little interest--either negative or positive--in the issue.
    Goldfinger is often erroneously identified as Jewish, usually by writers who wish to accuse Fleming of prejudice, but Fleming goes out of his way on three occasions to say Goldfinger is not Jewish, but rather a Balt.

    The most Fleming ever wrote about a Jewish character are these lines from Thunderball:
    Dr Stengel, the fashionable doctor of Nassau, was not only fashionable but a good doctor. He was one of the Jewish refugees who, but for Hitler, would have been looking after some big hospital in a town the size of Dusseldorf. Instead, rich and grateful patients had built a modern clinic for him in Nassau where he treated the natives for shillings and the millionaires and their wives for ten guineas a visit...
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    Revelator wrote:
    Dan Same wrote:
    Is it true that many of Fleming's novels featured Jewish characters and that in fact Le Chiffre was part-Jewish? (I'm asking simply as a matter of curiosity since I myself am Jewish. ;))

    It's not true. Aside from LeChiffre's possible part-Jewishness, there are no major Jewish characters in the books. Fleming doesn't seem to have been an anti-semite, and the books have little interest--either negative or positive--in the issue.
    Goldfinger is often erroneously identified as Jewish, usually by writers who wish to accuse Fleming of prejudice, but Fleming goes out of his way on three occasions to say Goldfinger is not Jewish, but rather a Balt.

    The most Fleming ever wrote about a Jewish character are these lines from Thunderball:
    Dr Stengel, the fashionable doctor of Nassau, was not only fashionable but a good doctor. He was one of the Jewish refugees who, but for Hitler, would have been looking after some big hospital in a town the size of Dusseldorf. Instead, rich and grateful patients had built a modern clinic for him in Nassau where he treated the natives for shillings and the millionaires and their wives for ten guineas a visit...

    Yes, well researched, Revelator. Nothing anti-semitic there, quite the opposite in fact.
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
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