Dalton's Bond? TLD.
Smoke_13
Kitchener Ont CanadaPosts: 285MI6 Agent
Wow, I just started watching Volume 1 of the Ultimate Edition Bond set. I just picked it up last night. You know, I still absolutely love Goldfinger and was surprised I enjoyed TMWTGG as much as I did.
"The Living Daylights" was in the set so I started to watch it. After about 30 minutes I wasn't just watching a movie, I was enduring a painful experience. I felt Dalton was completely one dimensional - a robot could have played the part better. I kept looking at the DVD bar to see how much more of the film I had to trudge my way through.
Some of the scenes were pure over-the-top garbage. For example; Cello case toboganning down a snow slope? Driving a jeep out the back of a crashing plane? I forced myself to finish watching it. I remember when I saw it in the theater as a young (I stress young
) teen and felt it was bad, but I was wrong -it's truly awful. This may make my list of five worst Bond films.
I know there's some on this board that love Dalton's Bond and feel he's close to Flemings ideal. I'm sure you all realize that I completely disagree. So, I ask the board -did I overlook something with Dalton's Bond or am I bang on that this his version of Bond and this film are indeed one of the worst?
"The Living Daylights" was in the set so I started to watch it. After about 30 minutes I wasn't just watching a movie, I was enduring a painful experience. I felt Dalton was completely one dimensional - a robot could have played the part better. I kept looking at the DVD bar to see how much more of the film I had to trudge my way through.
Some of the scenes were pure over-the-top garbage. For example; Cello case toboganning down a snow slope? Driving a jeep out the back of a crashing plane? I forced myself to finish watching it. I remember when I saw it in the theater as a young (I stress young
) teen and felt it was bad, but I was wrong -it's truly awful. This may make my list of five worst Bond films.I know there's some on this board that love Dalton's Bond and feel he's close to Flemings ideal. I'm sure you all realize that I completely disagree. So, I ask the board -did I overlook something with Dalton's Bond or am I bang on that this his version of Bond and this film are indeed one of the worst?
Comments
I love it.
"Better make that two."
However, LTK, oh dear..
He was overly dour, the locales were boring, some of the writing was dreadful (how many times did he tell people to go home?
Sorry to the people who love this film (of which I was one), but I just don't actually think its very well done (although I appreciate the good intentions!
Well, to each his own regarding how Bond is portrayed. I liked Dalton in TLD, less so in LTK.
As for the supposedly "over-the-top garbage" scenes you describe, I assume you have the same distaste for, among other implausibilities:
-- A villain with metal hands working in the middle of a nuclear reactor
-- An archvillain wearing a Mao jacket and stroking a white cat
-- A supposed lesbian made hetero by one roll in the hay with Bond
-- Escaping from a fight using a jetpack, when simply running away would suffice
-- A criminal organization living in a hollowed volcano, without anyone noticing
-- A spoiled countess able to easily overcome a brute henchman in hand-to-hand combat
-- A villain dressed in drag being recognized by someone who has never seen him before
-- A villain who puffs up and explodes
-- A spiral car jump with a slide whistle sound effect
-- A steel-toothed henchman who is literally indestructible
-- A laser battle in outer space
-- Skiing on a bobsled run
-- A group of female circus performers overtaking a fortress
-- Bond surfing on a snowmobile skid to the strains of a Beach Boys song
-- An x-ray camera that shows the bones of people...in paintings
-- Bond entering a falling airplane, starting it up, and flying it away
-- Using a ripped banner to descend a building
-- Bond traversing the streets of East London in a boat
-- Bond parasailing on CGI tsunami-sized waves
-- A secret agent known to bartenders, concierges and tailors the world over
You get my point.
-- A villain with metal hands working in the middle of a nuclear reactor
-- An archvillain wearing a Mao jacket and stroking a white cat
-- A supposed lesbian made hetero by one roll in the hay with Bond
-- Escaping from a fight using a jetpack, when simply running away would suffice
-- A criminal organization living in a hollowed volcano, without anyone noticing
-- A spoiled countess able to easily overcome a brute henchman in hand-to-hand combat
-- A villain dressed in drag being recognized by someone who has never seen him before
-- A villain who puffs up and explodes
-- A spiral car jump with a slide whistle sound effect
-- A steel-toothed henchman who is literally indestructible
-- A laser battle in outer space
-- Skiing on a bobsled run
-- A group of female circus performers overtaking a fortress
-- Bond surfing on a snowmobile skid to the strains of a Beach Boys song
-- An x-ray camera that shows the bones of people...in paintings
-- Bond entering a falling airplane, starting it up, and flying it away
-- Using a ripped banner to descend a building
-- Bond traversing the streets of East London in a boat
-- Bond parasailing on CGI tsunami-sized waves
-- A secret agent known to bartenders, concierges and tailors the world over
You get my point.
I love Dalton's performance, i think he should really have another chance (in my perfect world he should play AVTAK and GE, just as in my perfect world Lazemby should have played more movies, Fleming still be alive at least in the 80's and i will married the woman that i love)
He isn't a male model, he is tall and all the stuff about how Bond may look (including the voice). But yeah, i think he had a better look in TLD than LTK.
He was serious (way too serious)but he was believable. About being one dimensional, i think not. look it this way: he was serious, but i least i feel like we was sort in love with Kara, and feel betrayed by her as well, shocked by the dead of Saunders. He can act like a real Bas**** sometimes (unlike Moore or Brosnan because they were Moore and Brosnan)
I don't wanna start some fight about that, all of them were EON's Bond, did a wonderful job and i'm thankful for that. IMO i like Dalton more.
Dalton was my favorite Bond until Craig came out. His looks are, IMO, the closest to the literary 007. Give him blue eyes, a scar on the right cheek, and a tighter hairstyle, and he's there. He nails a great deal of range in portraying the literary 007, as well: jovial (watch the reception scene and the "stranded at sea" scene in LTK), ruthless (the hotel scene in TLD), wrathful (the reaction to Saunders' death in TLD; a great deal of LTK), mortal (clorohydrate scene in TLD; conveyer belt in LTK), annoyed (a great deal of both films), and morosely reflective (the garter toss in LTK). The one weakness I will say about his performance is that at times, his demeanor can be off. In TLD, there were times in more formal settings in which he was a little bit wirey when he should have been more laid back. However, IMO, he corrected for this in a big way in LTK.
I would have given anything for him to have done more films. I would have started him with FYEO in a more toned-down, darker approach. I think he would have excelled greatly in that film. OP also would have been a terrific film for him to do. AVTAK, with some reworking, could have been very good with him, as well, although it has some problems as a film that would have to have been addressed. (Which I say at risk of JFF going apes***) If Glen had done with the three Moore movies he directed what he did with Dalton (and with Dalton in the role), I think those three movies could very well have been among the best in the franchise, and I'm already a fan of FYEO as it is.
"Better make that two."
That just made my day!
License to Kill, on the other hand, is one bond film that I never find myself reaching for. Although I rank it 19 out of 20 (havent' ranked CR yet, too early) Moonraker is still enjoyable prior to overblown space sequences. LTK is brutal, uninspiring, features a bond that doesn't engage me, and just falls completely flat.
Joel
In regards to LTK, I saw it in the theater when I was 15. My mom bought me John Gardner's novelization of the screenplay, which eventually turned me onto Ian Fleming's original works . . . so I enjoy LTK for nostalgic reasons. While the movie lacks the feel of a traditional Bond adventure -- as many have already noted -- I like it's cold realism. I also thought the tanker chase at the end was phenomenal.
It's a shame Dalton didn't have a chance to expand on the character . . .
Yes, I get your point. I get all of them. Here in a nutshell is how I feel about some of those instances of "Over-the-top Garbage"
"Metal Handed Villian Working in a Power Plant" -He's got metal hands, he's gotta work somewhere.
"Mao coat wearing villian stroking a white cat" -Are you kidding me, that's an icon for villians around the world.
"Bond turning a lesbian into a hetro" -Well, he is a cunning linguist.
"Countess Dummying up a henchman" -Over the top garbage.
"Villian puffing up and exploding" -You forgot floating up to the ceiling...still over the top garbage.
"Spiral Jump and slide whistle sound" -That jump was fantastic...the slide whistle was way out of line and gave me that "Yuck" feeling.
"Steel toothed indestructable henchman" - Jaws rocks! Even eating chains and sharks is somehow acceptable by me.
"Skiing on a bobsled run" - I loved that.
"Bond snow mobile ski surfing to beach boys" -Pure over the top garbage, with a side order of garbage cheese. YUCK to the nth degree!
"Bond parasailing on CGI waves...a big over the top YUCK there too.
You missed the double take pigeon - YUCK
Odd Jobs unbelievable hat - Very cool.
Not sure why I can accept some things in my Bond films and not others. But I do know this. I still say Driving the jeep out of the plane, and the cello toboggin were both over the top garbage, Dalton still stinks and so did TLD.
You don't consider Dr. No gritty?
I subscribe to every word. In an ideal world, Dalton would have had a minimum of 4 or maybe even 5 outings, starting with an improved (sobered up) version of AVTAK or OP and maybe ending with a 1991 movie written entirely to his strengths (Propery of a Lady).
I also want to go on record saying (again) that the first 75 mins of TLD are IMO the best of the series (with stiff competition from the Turkey sequence in FRWL and the opening hour of CR).
I think I may have an idea as to why lots of casual Bond fans today do not appreciate Dalton's Bond. Lots of people did not grow up with the franchise or did not watch all of them in a few years of their childhood like me. These people are too ignorant to realize how much his portrayal of Bond influenced their precious Craig's portrayal. They just know Bond as the awesome Connery, the cartoon, campy Moore and the recently departed Brosnan. Lazenby and Dalton are often ignored in the history of the franchise and that is a shame. The fans today who praise Craig that have not seen all or at least most of the first 20 films need to do their research before they go around and bash guys like Timothy Dalton.
My timeline for Dalton would have gone like this:
Give him AVTAK because he would have made it better than Moore did with his talent for action scenes. OP would have been a great swan song for Sir Rog anyways.
Keep TLD and LTK as they are.
Have him do films in 1991 and 1993. Property of a Lady as suggested earlier would have been a good one. I would still give GE to Brosnan, however. Dalton would have been good in it, too, but without GE I fear Brosnan may have never landed the role. Not even in 1997 at age 44. But, my first Bond film was GE so I am a little biased because I can't see anyone but Brosnan in that film.
Same composer: the late Michael Kamen.