Mmmmm -- Some might be offended by the concluding quote, but I think you have to admit he sort of has a point.
From the New York Post
AFTER ONION RINGS
By MICHAEL STARR
October 18, 2007 -- 'SOPRANOS" creator David Chase has a pretty good idea what happens to Tony and family after the famous black-out finale.
"People have said that the Soprano family's whole life goes in the toilet in the last episode. That the parents' whole twisted lifestyle is visited on the children," Chase says in a new, defintive book about the mob opera.
"And that's true - to a certain extent," he says in The Sopranos: The Complete Book," which is excerpted in the upcoming edition of Entertainment Weekly magazine.
"But look at it: A.J.'s not going to become a citizen-soldier or join the Peace Corps or try to help the world; he'll probably be a low-level movie producer," Chase says.
"But he's not going to be a killer like his father, is he?
"Meadow may not become a pediatrician or even a lawyer, but she's not going to be a housewife-***** like her mother," he says, colorfully.
For months, Chase has said he had nothing in mind - and certainly not Tony's death, as many fans speculated - when he decided to fade the series to black without resolution after eight years and 84 episodes.
In the book, he lets on that he has indeed thought deeply about how his famous characters ended up, after all.
Chase says he wasn't surprised by the angry reaction of "Sopranos" fans who complained the show's finale didn't give them "closure."
"There was so much more to say than could have been conveyed by an image of Tony facedown in a bowl of onion rings with a bullet in his head. Or, on the other side, taking over the New York Mob," he says.
"The way I see it is that Tony Soprano had been people's alter ego. They had gleefully watched him rob, kill, pillage, lie and cheat. They had cheered him on.
"And then, all of a sudden, they want to see him punished for all that.
"They wanted to see his brains splattered on the wall. I thought that was disgusting, frankly.
"The pathetic thing - to me - was how much they wanted his blood, after cheering him on for eight years."
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
(quoting Chase)
"The pathetic thing - to me - was how much they wanted his blood, after cheering him on for eight years."
I'm not offended, really, but I'm a bit amused by his judgmentalism, re: his loyal audience, who poured coin into his pocket...
"They're pathetic; what a state we're in as a culture---CHA-CHING!!!!!" )
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
(quoting Chase)
"The pathetic thing - to me - was how much they wanted his blood, after cheering him on for eight years."
I'm not offended, really, but I'm a bit amused by his judgmentalism, re: his loyal audience, who poured coin into his pocket...
"They're pathetic; what a state we're in as a culture---CHA-CHING!!!!!" )
Same here. It sounds like a man trying to drum up interest in his book and taking offense that people want to see his meal ticket dead.
I did find his assertions that Tony may not be dead interesting. Maybe those rumors of a Sopranos movie down the road may not be so far-fetched; especially if the careers of the surviving principals don't take off like they hope.
(quoting Chase)
"The pathetic thing - to me - was how much they wanted his blood, after cheering him on for eight years."
I'm not offended, really, but I'm a bit amused by his judgmentalism, re: his loyal audience, who poured coin into his pocket...
"They're pathetic; what a state we're in as a culture---CHA-CHING!!!!!" )
Same here. It sounds like a man trying to drum up interest in his book and taking offense that people want to see his meal ticket dead.
I wouldn't go that far. I think Chase put it a bit more colorfully than he needed to (but you have to remember that some of the people who wanted a bloodbath got pretty ugly in their condemnations of Chase -- as if the series was all for naught because Tony didn't wind up face down in the linguini), but his point that the audience did cheer Tony on for years is well-taken. I certainly did. I had to shower afterward, but I cheered.
I totally agree. No matter what Tony does, and he does some pretty loathsome things, I can still empathise with him.
I recently watched the episode in which Tony *almost killed the guy for insulting Meadow. It really shocked me. I'm not someone who is turned off by cinematic/TV violence in general but the horror of this scene, and the fact that Tony went so overboard (I mean, punching out a guy is one thing, but he completely lost it) in this scene, really made it hard for me to continue feeling empathy for him. One of the other characters noted that he held back. If that was Tony holding back, I would hate to see what he does when he goes all out for it. )
*I had actually presumed that Tony had killed him. When I found out he hadn't, I was extremely surprised as what he did was so horrific IMO that I couldn't believe that the guy didn't die.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I totally agree. No matter what Tony does, and he does some pretty loathsome things, I can still empathise with him.
I recently watched the episode in which Tony *almost killed the guy for insulting Meadow. It really shocked me.
I cant say I was shocked but as soon as Coco started on Meadow I started to wince because I knew what was coming next. I think in recent series they have softened Tony quite a bit but in this final series they really are trying to enforce the fact that he really is a despicable guy. Still, I just cant help myself but like him, which is slightly worrying
We seem to running parallel with episodes.
(As for on screen violence the only time I have ever been truly uncomfortable was in Casino when Joe Pesci meets an unfortunate end in a corn field. )
It just occurred to me that I made my Chase post without noting the spoiler. I hope no one was upset with my spilling the beans. I've got a feeling the end was so well publicized that there are few people who don't know generally how the series ended.
It just occurred to me that I made my Chase post without noting the spoiler. I hope no one was upset with my spilling the beans. I've got a feeling the end was so well publicized that there are few people who don't know generally how the series ended.
No problem with me As you say, unless you've had your head in a bucket its very hard to not know what the ending is ... though my hubby is still blissfully unaware and I keep teasing him with 'you wont believe what happens', much to his annoyance )
As for the article, I do think Chase had a point. We've all been watching him for the past 6 seasons then all of a sudden we take the moral high ground. I think the fact that there is no resolution is quite appropriate.The Sopranos has never been cosy viewing and to have everything tidied up wouldn't have been right. Nothing in their world is that simple.
Besides, it leaves the door open for when they want to bring it back after all their careers disappear )
It just occurred to me that I made my Chase post without noting the spoiler. I hope no one was upset with my spilling the beans. I've got a feeling the end was so well publicized that there are few people who don't know generally how the series ended.
No problem with me As you say, unless you've had your head in a bucket its very hard to not know what the ending is ... though my hubby is still blissfully unaware and I keep teasing him with 'you wont believe what happens', much to his annoyance )
) You're so mean. HH, I have tried to avoid spoilers, but it's been impossible. It doesn't concern me though, as I have never expected Tony to die, and The Sopranos is not one of my favourite shows. Plus, what I know only really affects Tony. I had no idea that Chris would die and that Tony would murder him, and that was a huge shock.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I recently watched the final episode. You know, if I hadn't come back onto this site, I wouldn't have presumed that Tony had died. The way it was presented made me feel as if something was potentially going to happen to Meadow. When the screen went black, although I was expecting it, I was rather surprised. I think it does make sense that Tony was killed however I find it fascinating that Chase didn't intend for Tony to be killed.
It is certainly a very interesting ending. I don't think I would classify it as a great ending (although my view might change should I watch it again) but what I like about it is that it leaves the audience wondering what will happen to the family. I mean, if one were to assume that Tony lived, he would still be facing possible jail time. Irrespective of Tony's fate, it certainly got people talking.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
(quoting Chase)"The pathetic thing - to me - was how much they wanted his blood, after cheering him on for eight years."
I'm not offended, really, but I'm a bit amused by his judgmentalism, re: his loyal audience, who poured coin into his pocket...
"They're pathetic; what a state we're in as a culture---CHA-CHING!!!!!" )
Same here. It sounds like a man trying to drum up interest in his book and taking offense that people want to see his meal ticket dead.
Nice. 8-) I'm not offended myself however I am annoyed that Chase seems to forget that, regardless of his talent, if it weren't for the audience there would be no show. He might not approve of people's reactions, but I think he should accept that some viewers will have a different reaction to the one that he would have liked.
Similarly, I think he should also understand that when one has a book out, it helps to be diplomatic. He might think it's pathetic, but he should restrain from stating so publicly, especially since the people he is so judgemental of are the same people who basically ensured that he remained employed for the past eight years.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Maybe its because the comments were taken out of context, but Chase came across as a Grade-A a**hole in those and other blurbs that I've read. First he puts to film one of the most notorious non-endings ever, then he gets uppity that some people weren't happy with it. He even discounts the people who speculated on the ending, saying they should have done that type of thinking in college, and not about the ending to his show. The more I read his quotes, the more I begin to think that he just didn't know how to end the show - or maybe he decided to hedge his bets in case that there may one day be demand for a Sopranos movie. After all, if he really doesn't have anything else to say, then why all of a sudden is he so concerned about getting the word out that Tony may not be dead?
Maybe its because the comments were taken out of context, but Chase came across as a Grade-A a**hole in those and other blurbs that I've read. First he puts to film one of the most notorious non-endings ever, then he gets uppity that some people weren't happy with it. He even discounts the people who speculated on the ending, saying they should have done that type of thinking in college, and not about the ending to his show. The more I read his quotes, the more I begin to think that he just didn't know how to end the show - or maybe he decided to hedge his bets in case that there may one day be demand for a Sopranos movie. After all, if he really doesn't have anything else to say, then why all of a sudden is he so concerned about getting the word out that Tony may not be dead?
I completely agree with you. As I remarked above, Chase seems to have forgotten that if it weren't for the audience he attacks, he would never have had a job. His comment that 'it’s “just great” if fans tried to find a deeper meaning, but “most of them, most of us, should have done this kind of thing in high school English class and didn’t”' is enormously condescending and quite ungrateful that some people would care so much about his creation. I think The Sopranos was a very good show (albeit a little overrated) but Chase doesn't strike me as someone I would want to have dinner with.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Maybe its because the comments were taken out of context, but Chase came across as a Grade-A a**hole in those and other blurbs that I've read. First he puts to film one of the most notorious non-endings ever, then he gets uppity that some people weren't happy with it. He even discounts the people who speculated on the ending, saying they should have done that type of thinking in college, and not about the ending to his show. The more I read his quotes, the more I begin to think that he just didn't know how to end the show - or maybe he decided to hedge his bets in case that there may one day be demand for a Sopranos movie. After all, if he really doesn't have anything else to say, then why all of a sudden is he so concerned about getting the word out that Tony may not be dead?
I completely agree with you.
Why am I not surprised? )
Chase is not trying to get the word out that Tony is alive "all of a sudden." He said the day after the final show went on the air, when people were insisting that Tony was killed by the guy coming out of the restroom, that Tony didn't die and was very much alive. In fact, he was surprised there was any mystery at all because anyone who had ever seen the first episode or knew anything about the show knew what happened to Tony. And in that context -- and given the feeling of apprehension that pervades the final minutes of the final show -- I think it is obvious what happened to Tony: he had a panic attack. It ended with the same premise that launched the show: He had a panic attack and passed out. It was a terrific, original ending that people who were expecting a more pedestrian, cliched ending -- I'll admit I was one of them -- didn't see coming. Personally, I appreciate Chase taking the time to surprise me. I mean we got a gory killing (Phil), and a cool twist -- what more can you ask for? The Sopranos was classy to the end -- and absolutely true to itself and its characters in that it never pulled punches with them or the shows' story arcs just to show its "gratitude" to the audience. Chase is the man, and the more I think about his little snipe at the critics -- who have been far more scathing toward him than he's ever been toward them -- the more I feel he is absolutely correct.
And yes -- I'll finish the joke for ya: Why are you not surprised? :007)
HH, I don't really have an objection to the ending. I'm not sure that it is indeed the great ending that you make it out to be, however I only saw the last episode a few days ago, and I'm still working out my feelings about it. Perhaps I'll end up loving it; perhaps I'll end up hating it. That wasn't really the cause of my ill feelings towards Chase.
I find some of his comments to be condescending, extremely harsh and very much biting the hands that feeds him. Yes, he would have received alot of abuse, but he's a TV producer and he should be able to handle it. It does not justify him labelling the fans who wanted Tony to die as 'pathetic.' I know you love the show, and there's nothing wrong with that, but surely you don't think that Chase's comments were appropiate, to say the least?
(Before you accuse me of being overly sensitive, let me assure you that the only time I've mentioned Chase's comments was on this thread. )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
HH, I don't really have an objection to the ending. I'm not sure that it is indeed the great ending that you make it out to be, however I only saw the last episode a few days ago, and I'm still working out my feelings about it. Perhaps I'll end up loving it; perhaps I'll end up hating it. That wasn't really the cause of my ill feelings towards Chase.
I find some of his comments to be condescending, extremely harsh and very much biting the hands that feeds him. Yes, he would have received alot of abuse, but he's a TV producer and he should be able to handle it. It does not justify him labelling the fans who wanted Tony to die as 'pathetic.' I know you love the show, and there's nothing wrong with that, but surely you don't think that Chase's comments were appropiate, to say the least?
(Before you accuse me of being overly sensitive, let me assure you that the only time I've mentioned Chase's comments was on this thread. )
I completely agree with you. )
My comments were not about the show either (it's good but I'm not at all passionate about it one way or another) but about Chase's seemingly incredulous reaction to the end of the show and his recent comments. Was he really so out of touch with his own fanbase that he didn't think he'd get that kind of reaction from certain quarters? And what's with the bit about how fans' speculation about the ending are misplaced and they should have done those kinds of exercises in college (maybe it was high school, I'm just paraphrasing here).
As I said before, for a man who supposedly had nothing to say on the matter, he seems to all of a sudden be saying an awful lot.
And of course I'm sure all this hullabaloo from Chase has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to drum up some publicity for that new Sopranos book from HBO. :v
As I said before, for a man who supposedly had nothing to say on the matter, he seems to all of a sudden be saying an awful lot.
It would have been far better IMO if he has stayed silent. Not only would we have been spared some of his comments but he could maintained a sense of mystery about the ending.
And of course I'm sure all this hullabaloo from Chase has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to drum up some publicity for that new Sopranos book from HBO. :v
You're so cynical. )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
HH, I don't really have an objection to the ending. I'm not sure that it is indeed the great ending that you make it out to be, however I only saw the last episode a few days ago, and I'm still working out my feelings about it. Perhaps I'll end up loving it; perhaps I'll end up hating it. That wasn't really the point of my ill feelings towards Chase. I find some of his comments to be condescending, extremely harsh very much biting the hands that feeds him. Yes, he would have received alot of abuse, but he's a celebrity and he should be able to handle it. It does not justify him labelling the fans who wanted Tony to die as 'pathetic.' I know you love the show, and there's nothing wrong with that, but surely you don't think that Chase's comments were appropiate, to say the least?
Yes, he is a celebrity, and I agree that he should be able to take. But I think he has. Just because he chides his critics a bit in one interview -- and I can't think of another in which he has -- doesn't make him King of the Ass Holes. I might have put what he said more diplomatically, but he does make a challenging point. Mysel, I think the people who felt cheated because Tony didn't die in a hail of bullets, or wind up running the New York mob, or some such ending we've seen a million times before, are just asking for mediocrity. And unfortunately, because entertainment people have the coldest feet in the world and are all too willing to cater to the lowest common denominator, that's what we usually get. We need more "ungrateful" people like Chase. I think after you've watched the finale a few times, you'll appreciate it more (and don't get me wrong -- like everyone else, I thought the cable had gone out. When I discovered it hadn't, my first reaction was a Tony-esque "what the f***?"). But after Chase's reminder that the show was about a mob boss who was experiencing panic attacks, it all made sense, and I felt a little foolish at not having picked up on that. Looking at the finale again, with everything -- even something as mundane as parking a car or a guy walking to the bathroom -- taking on an air of doom, it just blew me away: this was Tony's world, his own private hell. It's not the tits at the Bing, or the big Italian meals, flashy suits, etc ... It's wondering if the next guy who comes in the door is going to be the one. I guess I knew that going in, but the finale made me actually feel it. Quite an achievement.
I don't think that either Tony or myself think that he is. At the end of the day, I don't care what Chase thinks, and as soon as I leave the computer tonight, I'll quickly forget about him. I was just surprised by some of his comments.
We need more "ungrateful" people like Chase. I think after you've watched the finale a few times, you'll appreciate it more
I think we're disagreeing on the use of the word 'ungrateful.' By 'ungrateful' I am in no way referring to the show itself. What I am referring to were some of Chase's comments in which he was extremely judgemental of the show's fans (such as the "pathetic" comment), yet the only reason he was able to have a show was because of these fans. No matter how good The Sopranos is, it wouldn't have lasted long on the air if it didn't have a sufficient number of viewers, and Chase appeared to have forgotten that.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
We need more "ungrateful" people like Chase. I think after you've watched the finale a few times, you'll appreciate it more
I think we're disagreeing on the use of the word 'ungrateful.' By 'ungrateful' I am in no way referring to the show itself. What I am referring to were some of Chase's comments in which he was extremely judgemental of the show's fans (such as the "pathetic" comment), yet the only reason he was able to have a show was because of these fans. No matter how good The Sopranos is, it wouldn't have lasted long on the air if it didn't have a sufficient number of viewers, and Chase appeared to have forgotten that.
That's true. Call me a cockeyed optimist -- go ahead, I'll wait -- but I think people will go for challenging programs. And I think Chase knows this and that far from being disrespectful, Chase has shown a keen appreciation for his audience's intelligence in the way he has handled his show's characters and story arcs. He doesn't feel he has to crush the peas and spoon feed them to us or we won't like them. I don't think Chase was calling the whole Sopranos audience pathetic, just the segment that wouldn't accept him directing his characters and his stories in his own way. The ones who felt ripped off by the ending. I think it's fine to not like the ending. That's a matter of taste. But to suggest it was some sort of deliberate rip off is total BS. And I don't blame chase for firing back.
(Before you accuse me of being overly sensitive, let me assure you that the only time I've mentioned Chase's comments was on this thread. )
Oh I know. Actually the only reason I'm on AJB at all right now is that I have to write a speech for my boss and all I've come up with so far is lot of canned BS. Sort of the speech equivalent of Tony face down in the linguini.
You know it's always good arguing with you, Dan ...
But after Chase's reminder that the show was about a mob boss who was experiencing panic attacks, it all made sense, and I felt a little foolish at not having picked up on that. Looking at the finale again, with everything -- even something as mundane as parking a car or a guy walking to the bathroom -- taking on an air of doom, it just blew me away: this was Tony's world, his own private hell. It's not the tits at the Bing, or the big Italian meals, flashy suits, etc ... It's wondering if the next guy who comes in the door is going to be the one. I guess I knew that going in, but the finale made me actually feel it. Quite an achievement.
Succinctly put HH.I've been looking for the words to describe it and you've done it for me.
As said earlier in this thread that I knew what the ending was but my hubby didn't have a clue.When we had the ending on Sunday evening he thought it was a total cop out and I was trying to explain the finer points of it.(I suppose the fact I had to explain the ending means it failed to some degree.)
This is Tony's world.It isn't all tidy with a neat little ending. The point that brought that home to me was near the end when Paulie and Tony where sitting outside Satriale's talking.It was just the two of them.There was no one else left. I thought that was quite poignant.
The ending worked for me and the cynic in me also thinks it worked for the producers. It left that very valuable door open for when they want to to do a special or a movie.
Succinctly put HH.I've been looking for the words to describe it and you've done it for me.
As said earlier in this thread that I knew what the ending was but my hubby didn't have a clue.When we had the ending on Sunday evening he thought it was a total cop out and I was trying to explain the finer points of it.(I suppose the fact I had to explain the ending means it failed to some degree.)
This is Tony's world.It isn't all tidy with a neat little ending. The point that brought that home to me was near the end when Paulie and Tony where sitting outside Satriale's talking.It was just the two of them.There was no one else left. I thought that was quite poignant.
The ending worked for me and the cynic in me also thinks it worked for the producers. It left that very valuable door open for when they want to to do a special or a movie.
Thank you, Rose. And yeah: never say never about a future movie (where have I heard that expression before?)
But The Sopranos, as Chase and others have pointed out, would be tough to do. Sure, Tony and Paulie are still around. But with so many of the crew gone, it might not be the same. Sex and the City is a case in point. Now that everyone has found the love of their life, I don't see how it will be the same. But you never know, I guess.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
But The Sopranos, as Chase and others have pointed out, would be tough to do. Sure, Tony and Paulie are still around. But with so many of the crew gone, it might not be the same.
Having a cast of many new faces might work in a feature film's favour, actually. It's an opportunity to something that truly 'stands alone,' and is less obvious as a bit of 'tag-on' opportunism.
I'd pay to see it...but I think Chase and Co. will be reluctant to pull the trigger on this (so to speak ), at least until a handful of years have gone by. There's excellent potential for a classic mob movie here...
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
You know it's always good arguing with you, Dan ...
Thanks, however I suspect we've been arguing over different things. )
Regarding the last episode, am I the only person who feared that something was going to happen to Meadow? While the ending was undoubtfully focused on Tony (I'm not entirely sure BTW as to whether he was in fact killed), my attention was very much on Meadow. I was so relieved when she reached the restaurant that Tony's fate didn't really concern me.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
The SOPRANOS is in my opinion the greatest TV Drama of all time and will never be beaten.. For me it also beats the GODFATHER films by far and other mafia films alike includeing GOODFELLAS. I absolutely love this TV show and I am seriously sad to see it go. I have watched the show since it started and have watched continuiously through seasons 1 - 6 and now its over. It was everything that made this series everything. The acting the writing, the humour the realisim the action the music. just everything. nouthing will ever measure up to the sopranos ever. it's left its mark. OK my views on the last episode. IT WAS FANTASTIC simplicity is always best. I dont have a plain opinion of what happened. Ok in the cafe when i first watched it when the screen goes black. I remembered boby TONY'S brother in law saying you probibly dont even see it coming and we the viewers dont see it coming its just blank. and tony and boby say something about beeing killed is just everything going black so tony is most likely killed. or is it just left open and tonys life goes on as does the sopranos. Also its the only time in the sopranos we get tofeel like tony. we get to feel the tention he feels every day of his life. of possibly being killed. and That could be the ultimate climax of the series; we get to feel what he feels going about his everyday life fear and anticipation. and the story goes on. also the song is significant.the one tony plays on the duke box a song about life going on and having a dream. The song is ''dont stop beleiving'' by journey. a fantastic song. but think about it i dont think tis song has just been picked because its a good tune.
there will not be any more sopranos or a film which I have head rumours about.
The sopranos is a work of art and will never be bettered or equaled
You know it's always good arguing with you, Dan ...
Thanks, however I suspect we've been arguing over different things. )
Regarding the last episode, am I the only person who feared that something was going to happen to Meadow? While the ending was undoubtfully focused on Tony (I'm not entirely sure BTW as to whether he was in fact killed), my attention was very much on Meadow. I was so relieved when she reached the restaurant that Tony's fate didn't really concern me.
Meadows' arrival is part of the private hell I was talking about. You have to look at the finale as being essentially inside Tony's head. The scene is almost like a half-dream, part real, part imagined. It's a lot like the Sopranoes dream sequences we've seen before. He's sitting in a restaurant waiting for his family to arrive. There's danger lurking everywhere, and the people and the action refer to earlier events in the series: two obvious examples are the black guys -- remember it was a black guy, hired by Tony's mother, that tried to kill him, while he was sitting parked in his SUV (see how Meadow's parking fits in? I'm not sure we're supposed to see that as really happening; it may must be Tony's imagination working and asking "what if?"). Many people mistook the guy who went to the bathroom for a Phil relative we've seen before -- I don't think that's an accident. I think there was also an episode where a killer was wearing a disguise that included a baseball cap, like another one of the diners that entered the restaurant. Tony remembers these things as he's waiting for his family. Perhaps one way to look at the scene is that what you're seeing is both objective reality and Tony's take on it at the same type. In other words, the world through Tony's eyes.
As for not being sure that Tony didn't die, I don't know what it would take to convince you, Dan. Chase, the creator of the show, the guy who wrote the finale, says he didn't. If that doesn't do the trick, I don't know what would. )
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
As for not being sure that Tony didn't die, I don't know what it would take to convince you, Dan. Chase, the creator of the show, the guy who wrote the finale, says he didn't. If that doesn't do the trick, I don't know what would. )
I, too, had pretty much convinced myself that Tony got whacked at the end---until Chase went and ruined it by blathering about what he said he wasn't going to talk about X-( ) Of course, the current explananation---as you've laid it out---makes perfect sense, given Chase's dedication to open ends.
However, if Chase and Co. never do a follow-up film, Dan and I can continue to let the show end our way...in our heads {[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
As for not being sure that Tony didn't die, I don't know what it would take to convince you, Dan. Chase, the creator of the show, the guy who wrote the finale, says he didn't. If that doesn't do the trick, I don't know what would. )
I, too, had pretty much convinced myself that Tony got whacked at the end---until Chase went and ruined it by blathering about what he said he wasn't going to talk about X-( ) Of course, the current explananation---as you've laid it out---makes perfect sense, given Chase's dedication to open ends.
However, if Chase and Co. never do a follow-up film, Dan and I can continue to let the show end our way...in our heads {[]
Of course you can;:)) hell, even if he does a followup film, you can always interpret that as an elaborate dream sequence -- sort of like the whole "Bobby Ewing is dead" twist on the old Dallas TV show. Maybe occuring between the shot and Tony's head hitting the table. If Tony seeks absolution in the movie, it could illustrate the old Catholic dictum:
"From the stirrup to the ground
"Mercy sought, mercy found "...
Chase, by the way, hasn't endorsed my whole view -- he's merely said Tony didn't die. But of course, I am right )
Comments
From the New York Post
AFTER ONION RINGS
By MICHAEL STARR
October 18, 2007 -- 'SOPRANOS" creator David Chase has a pretty good idea what happens to Tony and family after the famous black-out finale.
"People have said that the Soprano family's whole life goes in the toilet in the last episode. That the parents' whole twisted lifestyle is visited on the children," Chase says in a new, defintive book about the mob opera.
"And that's true - to a certain extent," he says in The Sopranos: The Complete Book," which is excerpted in the upcoming edition of Entertainment Weekly magazine.
"But look at it: A.J.'s not going to become a citizen-soldier or join the Peace Corps or try to help the world; he'll probably be a low-level movie producer," Chase says.
"But he's not going to be a killer like his father, is he?
"Meadow may not become a pediatrician or even a lawyer, but she's not going to be a housewife-***** like her mother," he says, colorfully.
For months, Chase has said he had nothing in mind - and certainly not Tony's death, as many fans speculated - when he decided to fade the series to black without resolution after eight years and 84 episodes.
In the book, he lets on that he has indeed thought deeply about how his famous characters ended up, after all.
Chase says he wasn't surprised by the angry reaction of "Sopranos" fans who complained the show's finale didn't give them "closure."
"There was so much more to say than could have been conveyed by an image of Tony facedown in a bowl of onion rings with a bullet in his head. Or, on the other side, taking over the New York Mob," he says.
"The way I see it is that Tony Soprano had been people's alter ego. They had gleefully watched him rob, kill, pillage, lie and cheat. They had cheered him on.
"And then, all of a sudden, they want to see him punished for all that.
"They wanted to see his brains splattered on the wall. I thought that was disgusting, frankly.
"The pathetic thing - to me - was how much they wanted his blood, after cheering him on for eight years."
I'm not offended, really, but I'm a bit amused by his judgmentalism, re: his loyal audience, who poured coin into his pocket...
"They're pathetic; what a state we're in as a culture---CHA-CHING!!!!!"
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Same here. It sounds like a man trying to drum up interest in his book and taking offense that people want to see his meal ticket dead.
I did find his assertions that Tony may not be dead interesting. Maybe those rumors of a Sopranos movie down the road may not be so far-fetched; especially if the careers of the surviving principals don't take off like they hope.
I wouldn't go that far. I think Chase put it a bit more colorfully than he needed to (but you have to remember that some of the people who wanted a bloodbath got pretty ugly in their condemnations of Chase -- as if the series was all for naught because Tony didn't wind up face down in the linguini), but his point that the audience did cheer Tony on for years is well-taken. I certainly did. I had to shower afterward, but I cheered.
*I had actually presumed that Tony had killed him. When I found out he hadn't, I was extremely surprised as what he did was so horrific IMO that I couldn't believe that the guy didn't die.
I cant say I was shocked but as soon as Coco started on Meadow I started to wince because I knew what was coming next. I think in recent series they have softened Tony quite a bit but in this final series they really are trying to enforce the fact that he really is a despicable guy. Still, I just cant help myself but like him, which is slightly worrying
We seem to running parallel with episodes.
(As for on screen violence the only time I have ever been truly uncomfortable was in Casino when Joe Pesci meets an unfortunate end in a corn field.
No problem with me
As for the article, I do think Chase had a point. We've all been watching him for the past 6 seasons then all of a sudden we take the moral high ground. I think the fact that there is no resolution is quite appropriate.The Sopranos has never been cosy viewing and to have everything tidied up wouldn't have been right. Nothing in their world is that simple.
Besides, it leaves the door open for when they want to bring it back after all their careers disappear
It is certainly a very interesting ending. I don't think I would classify it as a great ending (although my view might change should I watch it again) but what I like about it is that it leaves the audience wondering what will happen to the family. I mean, if one were to assume that Tony lived, he would still be facing possible jail time. Irrespective of Tony's fate, it certainly got people talking.
Similarly, I think he should also understand that when one has a book out, it helps to be diplomatic. He might think it's pathetic, but he should restrain from stating so publicly, especially since the people he is so judgemental of are the same people who basically ensured that he remained employed for the past eight years.
Why am I not surprised?
Chase is not trying to get the word out that Tony is alive "all of a sudden." He said the day after the final show went on the air, when people were insisting that Tony was killed by the guy coming out of the restroom, that Tony didn't die and was very much alive. In fact, he was surprised there was any mystery at all because anyone who had ever seen the first episode or knew anything about the show knew what happened to Tony. And in that context -- and given the feeling of apprehension that pervades the final minutes of the final show -- I think it is obvious what happened to Tony: he had a panic attack. It ended with the same premise that launched the show: He had a panic attack and passed out. It was a terrific, original ending that people who were expecting a more pedestrian, cliched ending -- I'll admit I was one of them -- didn't see coming. Personally, I appreciate Chase taking the time to surprise me. I mean we got a gory killing (Phil), and a cool twist -- what more can you ask for? The Sopranos was classy to the end -- and absolutely true to itself and its characters in that it never pulled punches with them or the shows' story arcs just to show its "gratitude" to the audience. Chase is the man, and the more I think about his little snipe at the critics -- who have been far more scathing toward him than he's ever been toward them -- the more I feel he is absolutely correct.
And yes -- I'll finish the joke for ya: Why are you not surprised? :007)
I find some of his comments to be condescending, extremely harsh and very much biting the hands that feeds him. Yes, he would have received alot of abuse, but he's a TV producer and he should be able to handle it. It does not justify him labelling the fans who wanted Tony to die as 'pathetic.' I know you love the show, and there's nothing wrong with that, but surely you don't think that Chase's comments were appropiate, to say the least?
(Before you accuse me of being overly sensitive, let me assure you that the only time I've mentioned Chase's comments was on this thread.
I completely agree with you.
My comments were not about the show either (it's good but I'm not at all passionate about it one way or another) but about Chase's seemingly incredulous reaction to the end of the show and his recent comments. Was he really so out of touch with his own fanbase that he didn't think he'd get that kind of reaction from certain quarters? And what's with the bit about how fans' speculation about the ending are misplaced and they should have done those kinds of exercises in college (maybe it was high school, I'm just paraphrasing here).
As I said before, for a man who supposedly had nothing to say on the matter, he seems to all of a sudden be saying an awful lot.
And of course I'm sure all this hullabaloo from Chase has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to drum up some publicity for that new Sopranos book from HBO. :v
It would have been far better IMO if he has stayed silent. Not only would we have been spared some of his comments but he could maintained a sense of mystery about the ending.
Yes, he is a celebrity, and I agree that he should be able to take. But I think he has. Just because he chides his critics a bit in one interview -- and I can't think of another in which he has -- doesn't make him King of the Ass Holes. I might have put what he said more diplomatically, but he does make a challenging point. Mysel, I think the people who felt cheated because Tony didn't die in a hail of bullets, or wind up running the New York mob, or some such ending we've seen a million times before, are just asking for mediocrity. And unfortunately, because entertainment people have the coldest feet in the world and are all too willing to cater to the lowest common denominator, that's what we usually get. We need more "ungrateful" people like Chase. I think after you've watched the finale a few times, you'll appreciate it more (and don't get me wrong -- like everyone else, I thought the cable had gone out. When I discovered it hadn't, my first reaction was a Tony-esque "what the f***?"). But after Chase's reminder that the show was about a mob boss who was experiencing panic attacks, it all made sense, and I felt a little foolish at not having picked up on that. Looking at the finale again, with everything -- even something as mundane as parking a car or a guy walking to the bathroom -- taking on an air of doom, it just blew me away: this was Tony's world, his own private hell. It's not the tits at the Bing, or the big Italian meals, flashy suits, etc ... It's wondering if the next guy who comes in the door is going to be the one. I guess I knew that going in, but the finale made me actually feel it. Quite an achievement.
I think we're disagreeing on the use of the word 'ungrateful.' By 'ungrateful' I am in no way referring to the show itself. What I am referring to were some of Chase's comments in which he was extremely judgemental of the show's fans (such as the "pathetic" comment), yet the only reason he was able to have a show was because of these fans. No matter how good The Sopranos is, it wouldn't have lasted long on the air if it didn't have a sufficient number of viewers, and Chase appeared to have forgotten that.
That's true. Call me a cockeyed optimist -- go ahead, I'll wait -- but I think people will go for challenging programs. And I think Chase knows this and that far from being disrespectful, Chase has shown a keen appreciation for his audience's intelligence in the way he has handled his show's characters and story arcs. He doesn't feel he has to crush the peas and spoon feed them to us or we won't like them. I don't think Chase was calling the whole Sopranos audience pathetic, just the segment that wouldn't accept him directing his characters and his stories in his own way. The ones who felt ripped off by the ending. I think it's fine to not like the ending. That's a matter of taste. But to suggest it was some sort of deliberate rip off is total BS. And I don't blame chase for firing back.
Oh I know. Actually the only reason I'm on AJB at all right now is that I have to write a speech for my boss and all I've come up with so far is lot of canned BS. Sort of the speech equivalent of Tony face down in the linguini.
You know it's always good arguing with you, Dan ...
Succinctly put HH.I've been looking for the words to describe it and you've done it for me.
As said earlier in this thread that I knew what the ending was but my hubby didn't have a clue.When we had the ending on Sunday evening he thought it was a total cop out and I was trying to explain the finer points of it.(I suppose the fact I had to explain the ending means it failed to some degree.)
This is Tony's world.It isn't all tidy with a neat little ending. The point that brought that home to me was near the end when Paulie and Tony where sitting outside Satriale's talking.It was just the two of them.There was no one else left. I thought that was quite poignant.
The ending worked for me and the cynic in me also thinks it worked for the producers. It left that very valuable door open for when they want to to do a special or a movie.
Thank you, Rose. And yeah: never say never about a future movie (where have I heard that expression before?)
But The Sopranos, as Chase and others have pointed out, would be tough to do. Sure, Tony and Paulie are still around. But with so many of the crew gone, it might not be the same.
Sex and the City is a case in point. Now that everyone has found the love of their life, I don't see how it will be the same. But you never know, I guess.
Having a cast of many new faces might work in a feature film's favour, actually. It's an opportunity to something that truly 'stands alone,' and is less obvious as a bit of 'tag-on' opportunism.
I'd pay to see it...but I think Chase and Co. will be reluctant to pull the trigger on this (so to speak
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Regarding the last episode, am I the only person who feared that something was going to happen to Meadow? While the ending was undoubtfully focused on Tony (I'm not entirely sure BTW as to whether he was in fact killed), my attention was very much on Meadow. I was so relieved when she reached the restaurant that Tony's fate didn't really concern me.
there will not be any more sopranos or a film which I have head rumours about.
The sopranos is a work of art and will never be bettered or equaled
RIP
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Meadows' arrival is part of the private hell I was talking about. You have to look at the finale as being essentially inside Tony's head. The scene is almost like a half-dream, part real, part imagined. It's a lot like the Sopranoes dream sequences we've seen before. He's sitting in a restaurant waiting for his family to arrive. There's danger lurking everywhere, and the people and the action refer to earlier events in the series: two obvious examples are the black guys -- remember it was a black guy, hired by Tony's mother, that tried to kill him, while he was sitting parked in his SUV (see how Meadow's parking fits in? I'm not sure we're supposed to see that as really happening; it may must be Tony's imagination working and asking "what if?"). Many people mistook the guy who went to the bathroom for a Phil relative we've seen before -- I don't think that's an accident. I think there was also an episode where a killer was wearing a disguise that included a baseball cap, like another one of the diners that entered the restaurant. Tony remembers these things as he's waiting for his family. Perhaps one way to look at the scene is that what you're seeing is both objective reality and Tony's take on it at the same type. In other words, the world through Tony's eyes.
As for not being sure that Tony didn't die, I don't know what it would take to convince you, Dan. Chase, the creator of the show, the guy who wrote the finale, says he didn't. If that doesn't do the trick, I don't know what would.
I, too, had pretty much convinced myself that Tony got whacked at the end---until Chase went and ruined it by blathering about what he said he wasn't going to talk about X-(
However, if Chase and Co. never do a follow-up film, Dan and I can continue to let the show end our way...in our heads {[]
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Of course you can;:)) hell, even if he does a followup film, you can always interpret that as an elaborate dream sequence -- sort of like the whole "Bobby Ewing is dead" twist on the old Dallas TV show. Maybe occuring between the shot and Tony's head hitting the table. If Tony seeks absolution in the movie, it could illustrate the old Catholic dictum:
"From the stirrup to the ground
"Mercy sought, mercy found "...
Chase, by the way, hasn't endorsed my whole view -- he's merely said Tony didn't die. But of course, I am right