Timothy Dalton
Lazenby
The upper reaches of the AmazoPosts: 606MI6 Agent
I've never been a huge Timothy Dalton fan (he's probably my least favorite Bond) and for years I have been unable to put a finger on precisely why. A fellow at another board had the following to say, and it more or less captures exactly my misgivings about Dalton:
"Dalton doesn't deserve degrading, necessarily, but he did miss out on some key elements of the Bond character. Firstly, he just wasn't all that cool. He was often very tense, and he lacked that relaxed, nonchalant attitude that I feel is very important. Secondly, his relationships with the ladies was laughable - the dude has no sex appeal."
Key elements of the character of Bond indeed (the cinematic Bond at least). What say you all?
"Dalton doesn't deserve degrading, necessarily, but he did miss out on some key elements of the Bond character. Firstly, he just wasn't all that cool. He was often very tense, and he lacked that relaxed, nonchalant attitude that I feel is very important. Secondly, his relationships with the ladies was laughable - the dude has no sex appeal."
Key elements of the character of Bond indeed (the cinematic Bond at least). What say you all?
Comments
Dalton gets a bum rap at times, his build was slighter then Connery, Lazenby and Moore and he didn't play the role like any of them, but at that point I felt it was the only viable option. And, if he had gotten the role around 1980, many of us might be talking about Dalton in the same breath as Sir Sean. Instead we got too little, too late.
It wasn't just that he was in/tense-- Sean Connery could be intense at times, heck even Roger Moore could, however both could pull it off without coming off like they were taking the whole thing waaay too seriously. That is my biggest gripe about Dalton.
I think Lazenby should have been Bond all through the 70s-- it would have been an interesting hand-off from him to Dalton in time for FYEO.
If Dalton had got the role of Bond earlier, after Lazenby for example, his bond would have fitted better. think about it, After your Wife has been murdered by your arch enemy, are you going to behave like the dark Dalton Bond, or the more joking Moore style Bond.
I always See Dalton's Bond as being a continuation of Lazenby's, Colder, Darker and more of a closed person because of what has happened in his past, the death of his wife. Moore only had a few moments in all his films when he looked as if he still thought about Tracy, and that was when Amasova mentions it in TSWLM and then again in FYEO when he is at her grave side. in those moments he does it very well, but the rest of the time...?
Ideally Lazenby yould have done a few more films so we could see the continuation of the character and see properly what the death of Tracy has done to him, instead we get a film with Sir Sean where it looked like he didn't really want to be in it and then the happy go lucky Moore. it is not until Dalton that we see the darker James Bond that in my eyes is caused by the death of Tracy.
Besides, how can you lot say he was Fleming's Bond, when he doesn't make a single derogatory remark about short or gay people?
I don't take him the rough side, I don't take him, that he just takes a woman for his own pleasure or for the sake of his mission and then throws her away, like Sean and Roger could do.
Look, what a lethal animal Daniel craig plays in CR and you know what I mean, when you see killing scenes with Tim Dalton.
I personally think, he's personally too good and soft and he is unable to overplay the soft part of his personality. A very good personal attitude, but not really perfect to play a rough-edged and sinister Bond.
Greetings
Markus
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Moore was very likeable, and could also be tough on occasions, but at no point did I feel he had the psychological scars to be Bond.
Brosnan to me seemed too emotional. He seemed too eager to tell people about his feelings and, to me, that's not Bond.
Lazenby and Craig both have given us excellent portrayals, but for me the joy of watching them is diminished by the fact that the character is not portrayed as someone I personally would like to spend time with.
To sum, if Bond were invited to a party, men and women would all wonder "Who is that?" and try to find out with only limited success. I feel this would happen with Connery and Dalton. Moore and Brosnan would be to easy to get to know, while with Lazenby and Craig's Bond, people would be saying "Who invited this guy?"
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Thank you
Interesting points,darenhat. Moore is definitely the most likeable Bond but Dalton definitely portrays Fleming's burnt out assasin much more credibly. His Bond and Craig's Bond are the same Bond only Craig is this Bond at the beginning of his career and Dalton's the same Bond at the end of his career. And both of them are infinitely superior to Brosnan's Bond IMHO.
I am surprised that Dalton's your least favorite Bond since I see OHMSS, FRWL and CR are your top 3 Bond films. Dalton's Bond would have fit perfectly into any of those 3 films. I think you should give TLD and LTK another try, Lazenby.
I spoke too soon when I said that; having watched a number of the old films for the first time in years very recently I now consider Brosnan my least favorite Bond, with Dalton and Moore tied at a notch above but both well below Connery, Craig and Lazenby.
What it boils down to, for me, is that whole coolness/toughness/sex appeal factor. I should say at the outset that I have never read any of Ian Fleming's books, so I'm not judging from that angle. I first got into the Bond movies as a boy of about 10 or so, and the films/Bonds I enjoyed the most were those who left me wanting to be that guy on the screen. Connery and Lazenby had that effect on me in spades-- in part I think because they weren't so much acting as letting aspects of their own personalities shine through. Watching Connery's films (and Lazenby's film) I was left more-or-less convinced that they really were that tough, that they really did have that effect on women and that, perhaps, they really could be depended on to save the world if the task ever fell on their shoulders. Still, to this day, when I watch their movies the 12-year-old sits in awe and just wants to be them. Moore didn't come across that way at all; I don't believe for a second that he would last very long in a serious fight and he seemed to coast through his movies where his predecessors relied on their innate toughess, wits and personal magnetism. Moore, however, at his best was quite entertaining, so he gets points from me for that.
Dalton, on the other hand, while approaching the part in (the correct) more serious tone than Roger Moore, nonetheless lacked those innate qualities that, to me, are an essential aspect of the appeal of Bond, namely, to quote the original post, he "wasn't all that cool" and "had zero sex-appeal". To be a Bond fan in the Dalton era, it seemed, one found themselves engulfed by the same sort of shame as might afflict someone who wears a pair of Spock ears to a Star Trek convention. The appeal of Bond, in my eyes, is that he is someone who every man wants to be and every woman wants to be with. Thus the most effective portrayers of Bond (again, to me) are those individuals who, in real life, actually embody those characteristics in some measure. Connery had it, Lazenby had it, Moore didn't have it, but he used his own strengths (for better or for worse) to make up for it. Dalton, I am afraid, didn't have it and thus he doesn't rank very high in my eyes, despite how much he might resemble the Bond of the books.
This all being said I plan on watching TLD again very soon, and who knows, my opinion might change once more.
Perhaps; I keep waffling on that particular point.
It's funny...I say this respectfully, but that's WHY I like Dalton...or one of the reasons, exactly because he seems more vulnerable. And I don't mean emotionally, physically he seems like he can be killed. I prefer Dalton because he took risks Brosnan didn't, in his portrayal. He had Steve McQueen intensity and coolness rather than Cary Grant smoothness. I'm not saying I dislike Brosnan, I like all the Bonds, but Brozzy was sort of a mini-Moore. Or possibly a conceptual Moore, to put it more kindly.
I have to disagree here. Before I do though, I have often thought that Steve McQueen would have made an interesting Bond. Regarding your comment, I think it's fair to say that he had McQueen's intensity, but he most certainly didn't have his natural toughness (McQueen, like Lazenby, was a decorated Marine) and because of this his intensity lacked authenticity, which made it seem like overkill (never mind the fact that I can easily picture Dalton reciting Shakespeare in tights, something utterly impossible for me to do in the cases of Connery, Craig and Lazenby). Furthermore, Dalton's lacking in toughness I think struck a deathblow his "coolness" because, I would argue, Bondian coolness flows from toughness much like a Jedi's strength flows from the force.
Ish Thish a dagger I shee before me?
I dunno about Shakespeare in tights, but I can certainly see a young Connery making a fine Macbeth on film. It's a brutal play. It would have suited him.
He would have made a good Hamlet too.
Didn't he do a TV version of Macbeth in his pre-Bond days? I seem to remember reading that in a biography.
Can we agree that Craig has McQueen qualities? Starting of course with close cropped blonde hair and piercing blue eyes, lol.
Very nice use of a Star Wars metaphor, my friend. I'm always interested to know what others heroes and franchises Bond fans are into.
TLD rocks and is one of my top 3 Bond films. Dalton makes an excellent debut as Bond and the 1st 20 minutes make for a very faithful adaptation of Fleming's short story. TLD, along with TB, FRWL, OHMSS, CR, and DN makes IMHO for one of the best "faithful-to-Fleming" source Bond films and Dalton fits the Bond role like a glove in this film. I recommend you read the TLD short story(if you haven't read it yet) before you try the film again. I read TLD before I saw the film the first time and it greatly enhanced my enjoyment of it.
LTK suffers from too much "Miami Vice"-era syndrome but Dalton's performance along with Davi's Sanchez make it one of the more interesting Bond/Villain relationships in the series and the film itself is a good midrange series entry.
By post-1970 EON standards, CR is an amazingly faithful-to-Fleming-source screen adaptation.
Lazenby, here's a tribute to Bond with Dalton and your namesake to the tune of "You Know My Name". I think you will enjoy it-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NbFew-maOo
No pressure, but hopefully it might help you like Dalton more.
That was awesome! It made me appreciate George Lazenby, LTK, the theme from CR a lot more. Don't know about Dalton yet though...get back to me