FRWL is a great great film.

LazenbyLazenby The upper reaches of the AmazoPosts: 606MI6 Agent
edited March 2007 in The James Bond Films
I just watched FRWL last night for the first time in a while and I was struck by how well it has dated. I mean, the film is now 44 years old (which places it firmly in the Medieval era of action movies) and, wonderfully remastered, it has lost very little of its suspense, coolness and overall appeal. (I'm not just writing out of sentiment here, I wasn't even born until 12 years after it was originally released). Among other things it was reaffirmed to me why Sean Connery is almost universally regarded as the best James Bond-- in FRWL he perfectly embodies all the most cherished Bondian qualities: toughness, alertness, resourcefulness, sex appeal, smoothness and just the right amount of tenderness when called for. There are so many things to like about this film! Kerim Bey is a wonderful character, easily the most successful of all Bond's allies, the whole Gypsy camp sequence almost seems out of place, but it works wonderfully, Daniella Bianchi is very beautiful and wonderfully cast, Red Grant's plot and how it only gradually becomes apparent to both the audience and Bond, and the way Grant is just lurking in the shadows without any dialogue for the first 2/3 gives him just the right aura of cold creepiness. The whole plot of this movie is subtly complex and the best part is that it doesn't become ridiculous and unbelievable as one scrutinizes it. And then there's the whole train scene-- culminating in what is still one of the top 3 fights of the whole series-- easily one of the masterpieces of 60s cinema. Anyway, yeah. FRWL is awesome.
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Comments

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,860Chief of Staff
    Total agreement from this front. I watched it recently and loved it all over again- the cast, the music, the plot. True, it is a little dated in places (how not?) but that only adds to the Cold War atmosphere and the appeal.
  • AlexAlex The Eastern SeaboardPosts: 2,694MI6 Agent
    edited March 2007
    Absolute agreement. Recently watched the first four, (one a day), and I admired them all more then ever. I am saving OHMSS for the coming weekend, along with a lazy boy and a cold one.
  • LazenbyLazenby The upper reaches of the AmazoPosts: 606MI6 Agent
    Alex wrote:
    Absolute agreement. Recently watched the first four, (one a day), and I admired them all more then ever. I am saving OHMSS for the coming weekend, along with a lazy boy and a cold one.

    I am surprised you don't rate OHMSS higher (than at least FYEO and TSWLM).
  • bluemanblueman PDXPosts: 1,667MI6 Agent
    It does date well, just an awesome film. Not wild about the DN music stuck in there towards the end, and well the boat chase always struck me as ad hoc, I think I remember reading somewhere it was meant to be a night scene? That makes a whole lot more sense to me, shame they couldn't do it that way. But for the Bond canon these are such minor quibbles.

    Also, the Instanbul is a rough town line always cracks me up--coming from Bond, I mean, whoa. How does he manage to stay alive for 5 minutes with that kinda thinking, lol.
  • LazenbyLazenby The upper reaches of the AmazoPosts: 606MI6 Agent
    blueman wrote:
    well the boat chase always struck me as ad hoc

    That's probably because it was, I think. I read somewhere that they just tacked it on because they felt they needed one more action sequence. It's probably my least favorite part of the film, to be honest, but like you say, minor minor quibble. (I agree with your comment about the music as well.)
  • AlexAlex The Eastern SeaboardPosts: 2,694MI6 Agent
    Lazenby wrote:
    Alex wrote:
    Absolute agreement. Recently watched the first four, (one a day), and I admired them all more then ever. I am saving OHMSS for the coming weekend, along with a lazy boy and a cold one.

    I am surprised you don't rate OHMSS higher (than at least FYEO and TSWLM).
    Are you referring to the lists? A really cool feature from Si, however mine tends to change frequently. Those two Roger films are very dear, old friends, and I wouldn't give them up for the world.

    Oh, I'm not blind to OHMSS' charms, mind you, It can be the crown jewel of the franchise when it wants to. -{
  • LazenbyLazenby The upper reaches of the AmazoPosts: 606MI6 Agent
    Alex wrote:
    Those two Roger films are very dear, old friends, and I wouldn't give them up for the world.

    That's how I feel about Moonraker. It's hated by many for its entirely inappropriate slapstick, but there is a wonderful Bond film lurking in there somewhere.
  • Krassno GranitskiKrassno Granitski USAPosts: 896MI6 Agent
    edited March 2007
    I believe this is the perfect Bond film. Not my favorite, but it is the best. A real treat. The best ensemble of actors, Robert Shaw is terrific, I agree about Kerim Bey excellent work by Pedro Armendáriz, great adaptation of Fleming novel. I really can't find a fault with it. -{
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,860Chief of Staff
    blueman wrote:
    Not wild about the DN music stuck in there towards the end

    That was only done because John Barry had left by then and Peter Hunt re-used "Death Of Dr No" to plug the gap.
    Incidentally, this re-use of Monty Norman's music later became a minor point in the famous "Who Wrote The James Bond Theme" court case, as did the brief snippet of "Under The Mango Tree" heard in OHMSS when 007 cleans out his desk drawer.
  • bigzilchobigzilcho Toronto, ONPosts: 245MI6 Agent
    FRWL.

    Pound-for-pound the best movie in the series and, on a personal note, the first Bond I ever saw (on a triple bill (!) with DN and GF in 1972. What luck!)

    I would also point out that FRWL is really the first modern action movie as we lnow it.

    I defy anyone to tell me about a movie that has action as good as FRWL before 1963.

    FRWL is a revolution in movie mayhem and light years ahead of its time.

    Excuse the hype, but FRWL is the Birth of a Nation of action movie history.

    "How about a cigarette?"
    "Not a chance."
  • RJJBRJJB United StatesPosts: 346MI6 Agent
    FRWL is not just a great Bond movie, but a great movie period. I have seen it included on the ubiquitous "Greatest Movies" lists that show up from time to time. It is intelligently written and is a classic illustration of how two elements of the Bond movies--gadgetry and action sequences--can be incorporated into a serious espionage thriller without detracting from the overall execution of the movie. I can think of no element of this movie that is not first rate. I laugh when I read people call this movie boring. No doubt, those people want their enjoyment of a Bond movie spoon fed to them with a continuous flow of explosions,stunts, chase scenes and silliness injected to pad a weak movie. FRWL deserves all the accolades it has earned throught the years.
  • actonsteveactonsteve Posts: 299MI6 Agent
    I put it down to Ian Fleming. He just wrote a good thriller. The aim is to kill Bond in the most humiliating way possible. And the entire film leads up to him in the "killing bottle". Theres real menace there. You believe Bond is in constant danger all the way through the film.

    The filmakers were lucky enough to draw on excellent source material and a superb eye for casting..
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    Gotta join the chorus on this one. It's definitely the direct ancestor of Casino Royale. I think I put CR above it on my list after seeing the more recent film, but a tie would probably be more like it, with perhaps a slight nostalgic tilt toward FRWL because Connery was the original Bond. I definitely put it above Goldfinger, as much fun as that film was -- is. GF is a spectacular romp, an extravaganza, and more or less the template for future Bonds, but FRWL is 007 in full Cold War spy thriller mode.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    It's #1 on my list...
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • LazenbyLazenby The upper reaches of the AmazoPosts: 606MI6 Agent
    Fish1941 wrote:
    the Bond/Grant confrontation (great drama but lacked logic)

    How did it lack logic?
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited March 2007
    Lazenby wrote:
    Anyway, yeah. FRWL is awesome.
    {[] I completely agree. :D IMO FRWL was the second greatest Bond film of all time (after GF), but the fact that I consider GF to be superior isn't a reflection upon FRWL. (It's simply a reflection of how brilliant I consider GF to be.)

    I consider it to be as perfect a film that any Bopnd film (aside from GF) is likely to get. Everything about it (the performances, the action, the dialogue, the script, the plot, the gadgets, the look and feel of the film, the PTS, the villians, the allies, the Bond girls, Bond himself etc...) is IMO flawless.

    I can not enthuse enough about how much I love FRWL. I consider it to be the greatest Bond thriller of all time (I consider GF to be more of an adventure film), and if I could prevent just two Bond films from being destroyed, they would be GF... and FRWL. :x -{
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Harry PalmerHarry Palmer Somewhere in the past ...Posts: 325MI6 Agent
    edited March 2007
    I agree (with almost ever thing said in this thread so far). FRWL is the best Bond thriller, which is perhaps why I prefer it to GF (which as Dan Same pointed out is more of an adventure film than a spy flick). The cold-war elements are all in place, and the casting is perfect. Daniella Bianchi is perhaps the sexiest "decorative Bond-girl" ever.

    All my favourite Bond movies are low on gadgets and have a cold-war element, and this is the cold-war Bond par excellence.

    Not sure I understand what Fish means when he says that the scene with Red Grant lacks logic.
    1. Cr, 2. Ltk, 3. Tld, 4. Qs, 5. Ohmss, 6. Twine, 7. Tnd, 8. Tswlm, 9. Frwl, 10. Tb, 11. Ge, 12. Gf, 13. Dn, 14. Mr, 15. Op, 16. Yolt, 17. Sf, 18. Daf, 19. Avtak, 20. Sp, 21. Fyeo, 22. Dad, 23. Lald, 24. Tmwtgg
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,467MI6 Agent
    I think it's been covered before, but it's when Grant uncharacteristically takes an interest in gold sovereigns, allowing himself to be drawn into a trap, after being so utterly unbending and ruthless up until that point. It's not like he actually needs the sovereigns...
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • AlexAlex The Eastern SeaboardPosts: 2,694MI6 Agent
    Lazenby wrote:
    Fish1941 wrote:
    the Bond/Grant confrontation (great drama but lacked logic)

    How did it lack logic?
    It doesn't.
  • RJJBRJJB United StatesPosts: 346MI6 Agent
    I figured Grant wanted to string Bond along just a bit more, making him believe that he had a chance to get out of the situation by accepting the money. Just another chance to humiliate, though at a more personal level. No doubt, he would have killed him anyway after rubbing it in a bit. It was the desire to humiliate Bond one more time, not greed, that killed Grant.

    As to the Fish's claims about too much action and one liners: just what do you exepect from Bond movies? Gee, a quiet trek ater getting off the Orient Express to Venice would be very exciting. Maybe you a nice travelog highlighting the country would be more to your liking, but this is a Bond movie. And I don't know where you get this idea that there are too many one liners. Any comments are interspersed with the action, usually after the resolution of the tension in the scenes.It's a structure of the movies that has always existed. I've said it before and I repeat it. I don't think you understand Bond movies at all.
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,467MI6 Agent
    I sort of know what Fish means here, some of the lines are a bit perfunctorary, of the Austin Powers type. "I'd say one of their aircraft is missing" etc. They stand out more after the genuine tension and more realistic dialogue that precedes it. Nothing wrong with "She had her kicks" though. {[]
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • DEFIANT 74205DEFIANT 74205 Perth, AustraliaPosts: 1,881MI6 Agent
    FRWL is my favourite Bond film. I agree with what most have already said - it is as close to perfect as a Bond film can get. Not only is it a close adaptation of the Fleming novel (which is an important criteria in my books), but it was well written, the plot was brilliant, well cast (Robert Shaw was terrific as Grant, Lotte Lenya played Klebb really well), and the action sequence on the train is first class. There are some weak points, such as the boat chase, but otherwise, despite the fact that it is 44 years old, I'd rate this a 9.5 out of 10.
    "Watch the birdie, you bastard!"
  • RJJBRJJB United StatesPosts: 346MI6 Agent
    I sort of know what Fish means here, some of the lines are a bit perfunctorary, of the Austin Powers type. "I'd say one of their aircraft is missing" etc. They stand out more after the genuine tension and more realistic dialogue that precedes it. Nothing wrong with "She had her kicks" though. {[]

    In reference to the "aircraft" line, how would you choose to end the scene? As you said, it stands out more after the tension that precedes it and for my tastes isn't too much of a joke.
    And I think it serves its purpose well, much better than something such as "Gosh, that was a close one" could ever do. Bond is supposed to be relieved that the threat is gone, as is the audience.

    As the series progressed, there were times when the lines became weak and badly executed. For instance in YOLT after Hans is eaten by the piranhas, Bond utters "Bon Appetit". I always winced when I heard that line. Years later when Bond uses the same line in LTK, I winced again.

    And since FRWL preceded Austin Powers by quite a few years, any lines are of a Bond type, certainly not of an Austin Powers broad type of humor.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly Liverpool, UKPosts: 1,048MI6 Agent
    The only thing wrong with FRWL is the drab fashion. Tania actually wears polo neck sweaters, which should be banned from any Bond girl's wardrobe, and the men all wear the most staid looking suits. And don't get me started on those awful nighties.

    Yes, I know it's a thoroughly bizarre reason to take against a film, but I do think the rest of it's very good!
    Founder of the Wint & Kidd Appreciation Society.

    @merseytart
  • DEFIANT 74205DEFIANT 74205 Perth, AustraliaPosts: 1,881MI6 Agent
    The only thing wrong with FRWL is the drab fashion. Tania actually wears polo neck sweaters, which should be banned from any Bond girl's wardrobe, and the men all wear the most staid looking suits. And don't get me started on those awful nighties.

    Yes, I know it's a thoroughly bizarre reason to take against a film, but I do think the rest of it's very good!

    I agree about the polo sweaters, but don't forget it was the 60s. What was considered "fashion" then will most definitely be outdated and drab by today's standards.
    "Watch the birdie, you bastard!"
  • Sir Hillary BraySir Hillary Bray College of ArmsPosts: 2,174MI6 Agent
    RJJB wrote:
    FRWL is not just a great Bond movie, but a great movie period. I have seen it included on the ubiquitous "Greatest Movies" lists that show up from time to time. It is intelligently written and is a classic illustration of how two elements of the Bond movies--gadgetry and action sequences--can be incorporated into a serious espionage thriller without detracting from the overall execution of the movie. I can think of no element of this movie that is not first rate.
    This is a huge point. To me, a handful of the Bond films really "separate" themselves from the series as a whole -- such OHMSS because of the one-off lead actor and the ending, DAF because of the "wink wink" farce aspects, and CR because of the reboot. FRWL also stands apart as a straightforward Cold War espionage thriller. Of all the films, it's arguably the least about James Bond. You could rename him Harry Palmer or John Doe, and the film would remain nearly as good.
    Lazenby wrote:
    How did it lack logic?
    You can read Fish's thoughts, and others', here:
    http://www.ajb007.co.uk/index.php?topic=27803
    Hilly...you old devil!
  • bluemanblueman PDXPosts: 1,667MI6 Agent
    Fish1941 wrote:
    I consider FRWL to be Connery's best film. But it did have its flaws - like the Bond/Grant confrontation (great drama but lacked logic), the stream of Bond's one-liners during the film's last half hour, and the deluge of too much action following Bond and Tania' departure from the Orient Express.

    Other than that, it is an excellent film.

    These are all fair comments IMO, kinda like my minor quibbles post.

    I think in the book (if I remember it correctly), Grant is waiting for the tunnel to shoot Bond, so the sound of the gunshot is covered over by the tunnel roar. That doesn't get mentioned in the film (does it? or does Grant mention it...). Either way that's the logic for Grant waiting to shoot Bond IMO, even if mentioned it's not presented as what's driving Grant. Dramatically Grant lording it over Bond works, but agree with Fish that it also feels kinda funny, logic-wise, at least as played in the film. Not that I mind though, really, it's a great device, to have Grant speak after being silent all through the film.

    And the last part of the film, as someone else pointed out, was even an afterthought as admitted by the filmmakers! Not surprising then that it's a bunch of escapes and one-liners, there's zero plot going on--might as well cut from getting off the train to the hotel room in Venice. Yeah Bond films are all about action, but FRWL was so expertly plot-driven, the helicopter bit then boat chase feel like the action-padding that they are. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it kinda is what it is IMHO, and detracts (if ever so slightly, because of it's sore-thumb nature) from an otherwise uniformly awesome spy adventure.

    In my mind, thinking about FRWL, I always cut out the helicopter scene; they get off the train very near the water, and thus the boat chase happens at night (as it was originally planned to). Never understood why they've just had dinner on the train, Grant and Bond have their fight--and then it's morning when Bond and Tania get off the train! Bit of a lapse there, I imagine it had to do with the expense of night shooting...morning should be when they get to Venice IMO, even if the geography doesn't support it (not like that endless night on the train that abruptly ends less than an hour after dinner makes much sense, but oh well, quibble quibble quibble, about what I'm sure were budgetary constraints). These are the kinda things fimmakers regularly don't prioritize, and the scenes on the train flow so well one simply doesn't notice the wonky timeline in the viewing.

    Random thoughts.
  • Moore Not LessMoore Not Less Posts: 1,095MI6 Agent
    FRWL is rightly considered to be one of the best Bond films, if not the best.

    One aspect that I particularly enjoy is the relationship between Sean Connery's Bond and Pedro Armendariz' Kerim Bey. If you will forgive the pun, there is a real bond between them. In fact, a stronger and closer bond than many 007 has with women.

    Every scene featuring Bond and Kerim Bey is a joy to watch, loaded with wonderful dialogue, "Find her technique too violent?" "She should have kept her mouth shut". Connery and Armendariz are both excellent.

    One of those great little moments of the series occurs when Bond leans down over the dead body of Bey (in the train compartment) and squeezes his upper arm with his hand. A wonderfully tender moment.
  • positivelyshockingpositivelyshocking Posts: 53MI6 Agent
    Aaah my faith in AJB forums is revived! Sometimes I think there are so many diverse and varied opinions that it is a wonder we agree on anything but here we have a 90% winner I'd say!

    It annoys me intensely when respected film reviewers and or magazines who should know better, parade Goldfinger as the greatest Bond movie. Now I wouldn't argue that it changed the series, but when it came to re-buying the UE dvd's last year, the first Connery film I bought was FRWL. Why? just read the positive comments above.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited March 2007
    RJJB wrote:
    As the series progressed, there were times when the lines became weak and badly executed. For instance in YOLT after Hans is eaten by the piranhas, Bond utters "Bon Appetit". I always winced when I heard that line.
    Why didn't you like that line?
    It annoys me intensely when respected film reviewers and or magazines who should know better, parade Goldfinger as the greatest Bond movie.
    Sorry positivelyshocking, but I have to say that I personally agree with these film reviewers and magazines. ;) FRWL was a masterpiece, the second greatest Bond film IMO, but I have always considered GF to be the single greatest Bond film of all time.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
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