Handling of the plot: FYEO might well be 1 of only 5 Bond movies that do not lose steam in the third act.
That's a controversial claim. I can't say I agree, but I'm curious to hear what you think the other 4 are.
Exactly, Lazenby. FYEO is my textbook example of a Bond film that lost steam in the 3rd act. I remember the first time I saw I generally liked it(even though it was far from my favorite) till around the Bond/Melina keyhauling sequence. From that point onwards, FYEO went down into an anti-climax for me.
Other points in TB's favor: John Barry's classic score easily beats Bill Conti's badly dated disco era music which, like Bibi, belonged in a more lighthearted 007 film. And the final underwater battle between the U.S. and SPECTRE frogmen totally blows away the anticlimax atop the Meteora any day. BTW, TB, YOLT and OHMSS are my top 3 Bond "final battles."
LazenbyThe upper reaches of the AmazoPosts: 606MI6 Agent
And the final underwater battle between the U.S. and SPECTRE frogmen totally blows the anticlimax atop the Meteora any day. BTW, TB, YOLT and OHMSS are my top 3 Bond "final battles."
The underwater battle at the end of TB is my favorite sans Domino underwater scene in the whole movie-- I'm surprised that people don't like it, I mean, it was unique and there was enough happening to keep it from being boring. That said, imho, the final battle in OHMSS is far and away the best in the series. YOLT is also quite good (ninjas!) and, controversially, I also like MR quite a bit. It's in space, which is different (and wholly appropriate in a Moore movie), the music is excellent and it contains the great line "heartbroken Mr. Drax". The helicopter showdown in FRWL is also great, though I didn't care for the boat chase. My least favorite of them all, I think, was in DAF. That film totally blew its load in the first 3/4, moreso I would say than just about any other.
Glen would take the franchise into a new era that depended less upon gadgets, grandiose villains and their even more outlandish schemes; and more on well-written plots, gritty edge and deep characterizations.
Glen would take the franchise into a new era that depended less upon gadgets, grandiose villains and their even more outlandish schemes; and more on well-written plots, gritty edge and deep characterizations.
Stopped reading right there.
Exactly. Especially that well written, grittily edge, deep characterization driven AVTAK
However, I do rank Glen's TLD and OP amongst my top 10 so he didn't do too badly on the whole.
And the final underwater battle between the U.S. and SPECTRE frogmen totally blows the anticlimax atop the Meteora any day. BTW, TB, YOLT and OHMSS are my top 3 Bond "final battles."
The underwater battle at the end of TB is my favorite sans Domino underwater scene in the whole movie-- I'm surprised that people don't like it, I mean, it was unique and there was enough happening to keep it from being boring. That said, imho, the final battle in OHMSS is far and away the best in the series. YOLT is also quite good (ninjas!) and, controversially, I also like MR quite a bit. It's in space, which is different (and wholly appropriate in a Moore movie), the music is excellent and it contains the great line "heartbroken Mr. Drax".
Oh, I think MR is great! I love it and TSWLM's finales even though they both tend to rip off YOLT's.
My least favorite of them all, I think, was in DAF. That film totally blew its load in the first 3/4, moreso I would say than just about any other.
I know DAF probably has the reputation for the worst Bond final act but it's never bothered me(except for the rather ambiguous way they dealt with Blofeld. However, that did leave the door open for his FYEO return 10 years later). I still prefer DAF's finale to FYEO's.
As for FYEO's PTS, I will reiterate what I have said before in that I tend to view it as purely symbolic. The "dumping" of "the man who is not called Blofeld" symbolizes the dumping of sillier, more cartoonish plot elements for this film. I think it is an intentional spoof of earlier Bonds.
As for FYEO's PTS, I will reiterate what I have said before in that I tend to view it as purely symbolic. The "dumping" of "the man who is not called Blofeld" symbolizes the dumping of sillier, more cartoonish plot elements for this film. I think it is an intentional spoof of earlier Bonds.
Yeah, but it also means they were "dumping" the villain of the two far superior Bond films that FYEO's makers were trying to emulate, i.e. OHMSS and FRWL(Blofeld is, of course the main villain there since Red Grant and Rosa Klebb were his employees).
There would not be a James Bond series without Terence Young. It was Young who helped mold the James Bond screen persona, developing the character and his style that propelled the series to its intial levels of success.
Yeah, really overrated.
Exactly. Especially that well written, grittily edge, deep characterization driven AVTAK.
Oh good Prince Kamal you've seen the light! I knew you'd come around some day.
Well, JFF. I can honestly say that I think AVTAK is the best Bond film ever.............................................
except for the other 20 "official" EON-produced Bond films and the three "non-official" Bond films.
I will pay AVTAK a real compliment. I think its final battle between Bond and Zorin atop the Golden Gate bridge is better than the final battle on the Meteora in FYEO even though FYEO is, of course, the better film on the whole of the 2.
It's a sure bet that I'll rank AVTAK the best 007 film probably the day after you rank TLD and TB as your top 2.
There would not be a James Bond series without Terence Young. It was Young who helped mold the James Bond screen persona, developing the character and his style that propelled the series to its intial levels of success.
Yeah, really overrated.
Terence Young is the most justly rated director in the series. All 3 of his are in my top 9 and 2 are in my top 2. If any Bond director is overrated I would say definitely pre-CR Martin Campbell though CR has caused my opinion of his work to improve. Michael Apted is the 2nd most overrated while Lewis Gilbert is the most underrated Bond director IMHO. All 3 of Gilbert's are in my top 11.
Exactly. Especially that well written, grittily edge, deep characterization driven AVTAK.
Oh good Prince Kamal you've seen the light! I knew you'd come around some day.
Well, JFF. I can honestly say that I think AVTAK is the best Bond film ever.............................................
except for the other 20 "official" EON-produced Bond films and the three "non-official" Bond films.
I will pay AVTAK a real compliment. I think its final battle between Bond and Zorin atop the Golden Gate bridge is better than the final battle on the Meteora in FYEO even though FYEO is, of course, the better film on the whole of the 2.
It's a sure bet that I'll rank AVTAK the best 007 film probably the day after you rank TLD and TB as your top 2.
Haha, that's completely fair, but I don't hate TLD that much, but I wanted to wipe Dalton off the face of the Elimination Game. No, no my real film that I hate is LTK. Still, TB and CR are down there as well as DAD. CR and DAD are battling for the higher spot on the list.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Anybody else, here, thinks these two guys should ... -- how shall I put it? -- get a room? :007)
8-)
No, Harry...looks like you're all on your own there...you and your very odd thoughts. This was a conversation. God only knows what you have in mind.
Get a room for yourself.
8-)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Glen would take the franchise into a new era that depended less upon gadgets, grandiose villains and their even more outlandish schemes; and more on well-written plots, gritty edge and deep characterizations.
Stopped reading right there.
Exactly. Especially that well written, grittily edge, deep characterization driven AVTAK
However, I do rank Glen's TLD and OP amongst my top 10 so he didn't do too badly on the whole.
I'm not a big fan of Glen. While FYEO is in my top 10, and I'm also a big fan of OP, I can't stand the other three films. AVTAK is my least favourite Bond film, TLD is my second least favourite Bond film and LTK is my fourth least favourite Bond film. Plus, even with FYEO and OP (both of whom I loved) I don't think they as well directed as some of the earlier films. I don't think that Glen really possesses the unique signature of a Young, Hamilton or Gilbert. Anyway, as I said, I like him but I don't love him. Although I love FYEO and OP, I will never forgive him for the other three films.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Harry Palmer Somewhere in the past ...Posts: 325MI6 Agent
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited April 2007
Try "50 First Dates." I enjoyed that one...
Sorry, you caught me in a cranky mood...no biggie...
{[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Terence Young is the most justly rated director in the series. All 3 of his are in my top 9 and 2 are in my top 2. If any Bond director is overrated I would say definitely pre-CR Martin Campbell though CR has caused my opinion of his work to improve. Michael Apted is the 2nd most overrated while Lewis Gilbert is the most underrated Bond director IMHO. All 3 of Gilbert's are in my top 11.
I consider Young to have been the best bond director of all time, followed by Hamilton, Gilbert, Hunt and Apted. The fact that Young has directed three of my all-time four favourite Bond films cements his status in my view as the greatest ever Bond director. However, Hamilton is my favourite Bond director, mainly due to his having directed my favourite Bond film (GF.) Regarding overrated directors, I consider post-CR Campbell to be the most overrated director.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I think Loeffs made some good points, TB has Terence Young and it doesn't have one of the all time worst Bond scenes IMO, the goons on the hockey rink being knocked into the net with horn blaring. TB also has the best group of Bond girls ever, with Lucianna Paluzzi, Molly Peters, Claudine Auger and Martine Beswick
As others have said Cosmo it really is your own decision, but having said I would go with Thunderball. It has everything you could want in a Bond movie and then some.
"Well, he certainly left with his tails between his legs."
i have nine bond movies on dvd and have decided to buy another one each month until i have the full set.
last month i'd made my mind up to get thunderball,but when i got to the shop i saw the cover of diamonds are forever and spent an age deciding which to get.i ended up getting daf.
next week i'm getting tb or fyeo.anyway to save me standing in the shop for ten minutes looking like an idiot trying to decide, perhaps some of you wonderful people could let me know which one you think i should get between the two.i'll get the one that has the most votes at the end of the week.
well i think it's a close thing, but by my reckoning for your eyes only just shades it.anyway i nipped into town today and bought it.probably watch it next week.it's been an age since i last saw it,so looking forward to it.now that thats out the way,i'm having trouble deciding what to have for tea;any ideas?
That's OK. TB already beat FYEO both at the box office(I think with figures adjusted for inflation, TB is the most financially successful 007 film ever) and TB already beat FYEO in the elmination thread(I know. I put the final nail in FYEO's coffin there ) while TB has survived to battle it out in the top 4) so I don't mind at all.
TB already beat FYEO both at the box office(I think with figures adjusted for inflation, TB is the most financially successful 007 film ever) and TB already beat FYEO in the elmination thread(I know.
Thunderball is the most financially successful 007 film ever, adjusted for inflation. However, a good deal of TB's box office must be attributed to the huge success of the previous two films, FRWL & GF. TB was pretty much bullet proof as a result.
LazenbyThe upper reaches of the AmazoPosts: 606MI6 Agent
As MNL says, adjusted for inflation it's true. In terms of sheer bums on seats, TB is the biggest.
That really is quite amazing, considering how many more theatres CR likely played at than TB. I came across this page on Wikipedia-- scroll to the bottom to see all the figures. Interesting that OHMSS, commonly thought of as a box office failure, did better than all but 4 of the films between it and DAD. (Assuming these figures are reliable of course.) It's also kind of amazing that, with 21 films, the Bond franchise is still behind the 6 Star Wars films in terms of revenue.
It's also kind of amazing that, with 21 films, the Bond franchise is still behind the 6 Star Wars films in terms of revenue.
That's an argument that has gone on for years. Depending on what you're reading, each franchise has been claimed as being the biggest/most profitable ever. I suppose both have been, at different points. Star Wars may be ahead at the moment, but give it time! As you say, the figures may not be reliable- and we all know one can prove anything with figures.
LazenbyThe upper reaches of the AmazoPosts: 606MI6 Agent
That's an argument that has gone on for years. Depending on what you're reading, each franchise has been claimed as being the biggest/most profitable ever.
Upon reflection it's not that hard to believe, given the magnitude of cultural impact that SW had, and the fact that it appealed to younger audiences as well as old. (And the films have been re-released many times.)
As MNL says, adjusted for inflation it's true. In terms of sheer bums on seats, TB is the biggest.
That really is quite amazing, considering how many more theatres CR likely played at than TB. I came across this page on Wikipedia-- scroll to the bottom to see all the figures. Interesting that OHMSS, commonly thought of as a box office failure, did better than all but 4 of the films between it and DAD. (Assuming these figures are reliable of course.) It's also kind of amazing that, with 21 films, the Bond franchise is still behind the 6 Star Wars films in terms of revenue.
Kimberly Last's has a page on her site that includes the grosses for all EON Bond films and includes the non-official 1967 CR and NSNA. Its figures on LALD seem to contrast sharply with the wilkepedia article. Also, I think MR gets the last laugh on its critics with it clearly outgrossing all Bond films that followed it(figures adjusted for inflation of course).
As MNL says, adjusted for inflation it's true. In terms of sheer bums on seats, TB is the biggest.
That really is quite amazing, considering how many more theatres CR likely played at than TB. I came across this page on Wikipedia-- scroll to the bottom to see all the figures. Interesting that OHMSS, commonly thought of as a box office failure, did better than all but 4 of the films between it and DAD. (Assuming these figures are reliable of course.) It's also kind of amazing that, with 21 films, the Bond franchise is still behind the 6 Star Wars films in terms of revenue.
Just to give you some idea of the staggering box office success of TB. In the US over 58 million tickets were sold. Compare that with OHMSS, just under 15 million. Even as popular as the Brosnan films were in the US they barely sold half as many tickets as TB.
I am not old enough to remember the 'Bondmania' of the mid 1960's, but it must have come pretty darn close to resembling (if not exceeding) the Star Wars phenomenom of the late 1970's, which I do remember.
Comments
Exactly, Lazenby. FYEO is my textbook example of a Bond film that lost steam in the 3rd act. I remember the first time I saw I generally liked it(even though it was far from my favorite) till around the Bond/Melina keyhauling sequence. From that point onwards, FYEO went down into an anti-climax for me.
Other points in TB's favor: John Barry's classic score easily beats Bill Conti's badly dated disco era music which, like Bibi, belonged in a more lighthearted 007 film. And the final underwater battle between the U.S. and SPECTRE frogmen totally blows away the anticlimax atop the Meteora any day. BTW, TB, YOLT and OHMSS are my top 3 Bond "final battles."
The underwater battle at the end of TB is my favorite sans Domino underwater scene in the whole movie-- I'm surprised that people don't like it, I mean, it was unique and there was enough happening to keep it from being boring. That said, imho, the final battle in OHMSS is far and away the best in the series. YOLT is also quite good (ninjas!) and, controversially, I also like MR quite a bit. It's in space, which is different (and wholly appropriate in a Moore movie), the music is excellent and it contains the great line "heartbroken Mr. Drax". The helicopter showdown in FRWL is also great, though I didn't care for the boat chase. My least favorite of them all, I think, was in DAF. That film totally blew its load in the first 3/4, moreso I would say than just about any other.
Stopped reading right there.
Exactly. Especially that well written, grittily edge, deep characterization driven AVTAK
However, I do rank Glen's TLD and OP amongst my top 10 so he didn't do too badly on the whole.
Oh, I think MR is great! I love it and TSWLM's finales even though they both tend to rip off YOLT's.
I know DAF probably has the reputation for the worst Bond final act but it's never bothered me(except for the rather ambiguous way they dealt with Blofeld. However, that did leave the door open for his FYEO return 10 years later). I still prefer DAF's finale to FYEO's.
Yeah, but it also means they were "dumping" the villain of the two far superior Bond films that FYEO's makers were trying to emulate, i.e. OHMSS and FRWL(Blofeld is, of course the main villain there since Red Grant and Rosa Klebb were his employees).
Oh good Prince Kamal you've seen the light! I knew you'd come around some day.
Well, JFF. I can honestly say that I think AVTAK is the best Bond film ever.............................................
except for the other 20 "official" EON-produced Bond films and the three "non-official" Bond films.
I will pay AVTAK a real compliment. I think its final battle between Bond and Zorin atop the Golden Gate bridge is better than the final battle on the Meteora in FYEO even though FYEO is, of course, the better film on the whole of the 2.
It's a sure bet that I'll rank AVTAK the best 007 film probably the day after you rank TLD and TB as your top 2.
Terence Young is the most justly rated director in the series. All 3 of his are in my top 9 and 2 are in my top 2. If any Bond director is overrated I would say definitely pre-CR Martin Campbell though CR has caused my opinion of his work to improve. Michael Apted is the 2nd most overrated while Lewis Gilbert is the most underrated Bond director IMHO. All 3 of Gilbert's are in my top 11.
Haha, that's completely fair, but I don't hate TLD that much, but I wanted to wipe Dalton off the face of the Elimination Game. No, no my real film that I hate is LTK. Still, TB and CR are down there as well as DAD. CR and DAD are battling for the higher spot on the list.
8-)
No, Harry...looks like you're all on your own there...you and your very odd thoughts. This was a conversation. God only knows what you have in mind.
Get a room for yourself.
8-)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Oops. Who knew I had a taste for Romantic comedy? ;% Okay, then... going to find that room as we speak. Contritely,
H.P.
Sorry, you caught me in a cranky mood...no biggie...
{[]
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
As for tea though, I have no idea
That's OK. TB already beat FYEO both at the box office(I think with figures adjusted for inflation, TB is the most financially successful 007 film ever) and TB already beat FYEO in the elmination thread(I know. I put the final nail in FYEO's coffin there
Thunderball is the most financially successful 007 film ever, adjusted for inflation. However, a good deal of TB's box office must be attributed to the huge success of the previous two films, FRWL & GF. TB was pretty much bullet proof as a result.
I wonder if that's still true given CR's huge success.
As MNL says, adjusted for inflation it's true. In terms of sheer bums on seats, TB is the biggest.
That really is quite amazing, considering how many more theatres CR likely played at than TB. I came across this page on Wikipedia-- scroll to the bottom to see all the figures. Interesting that OHMSS, commonly thought of as a box office failure, did better than all but 4 of the films between it and DAD. (Assuming these figures are reliable of course.) It's also kind of amazing that, with 21 films, the Bond franchise is still behind the 6 Star Wars films in terms of revenue.
That's an argument that has gone on for years. Depending on what you're reading, each franchise has been claimed as being the biggest/most profitable ever. I suppose both have been, at different points. Star Wars may be ahead at the moment, but give it time! As you say, the figures may not be reliable- and we all know one can prove anything with figures.
Upon reflection it's not that hard to believe, given the magnitude of cultural impact that SW had, and the fact that it appealed to younger audiences as well as old. (And the films have been re-released many times.)
Kimberly Last's has a page on her site that includes the grosses for all EON Bond films and includes the non-official 1967 CR and NSNA. Its figures on LALD seem to contrast sharply with the wilkepedia article. Also, I think MR gets the last laugh on its critics with it clearly outgrossing all Bond films that followed it(figures adjusted for inflation of course).
http://www.klast.net/bond/boxoff.html
Just to give you some idea of the staggering box office success of TB. In the US over 58 million tickets were sold. Compare that with OHMSS, just under 15 million. Even as popular as the Brosnan films were in the US they barely sold half as many tickets as TB.
I am not old enough to remember the 'Bondmania' of the mid 1960's, but it must have come pretty darn close to resembling (if not exceeding) the Star Wars phenomenom of the late 1970's, which I do remember.