Maybe I'm wrong, and "Old Potato Head" (DC) should have a bu** ugly gun. Who knows he may get the PPS in Bond 22 (Where the he** do those "rumors" come from anyway?)
I used to hate the P99, but after CR'06 It grew on me to the point I actually bought one. I may grow to like the PPS too!
However, I think oo7 should still use the old PPK - at least ocassionally. I do not think that Bond should be a member of the "gun of the month" club and change personal weapons in every movie.
I completely disagree about excepting Bond's personal gun from his "personal style". He has got be be classy and his gun should reflect that!
I love the scene in TLD where oo7 takes on Whittaker with a PPK, and BW pulls out a Machine pistol and blasts the hell out of Bond.
"You've had your 8 - now I'll have my 80!" Bond should be able to make up for being "undergunned" by his extraordinary accuracy with the PPK, or through his tenacity and grand good luck.
BTW I don't care what villians carry, oo7 should be able to pick up any of their guns and make good use of them.
An excellent point 7289 and I will concede that as Bond is classy most everything about him should be classy as well. His gun doesn't have to be "bu** ugly." However, I still contend that looks should not be the primary consideration in choosing a weapon.
By the way Dalton's Bond in TLD cannot be using a PPK against Whitaker. The PPK has a six round magazine. At most, with a round in the chamber and a fully loaded mag the PPK is a seven round gun. Maybe Dalton's 007 was carrying a PPKS which would allow for eight rounds in .380 caliber but unless he had his PPK fitted with an extended magazine(if so no mention is made of this)then he is not carrying a PPK.
My only point in all this is simply that stopping power, concealability, reliability and versatility(a lot of 'ilities, I'll admit) have to be the primary considerations for an agent like Bond. I would want to know that any weapon I carried would be able to do the job.
And from an esthetics point of view an ugly gun can present a dramatic contrast, anote of harsh realism in this otherwise glittering make believe world.{:)
Bond's (AKA Dalton) PPK should be a .32 not a .380. The .32 PPK will hold 8 rounds, 7 in the magazine and 1 in the chamber.
The EON prop men substituted a .380 PPK instead of the proper Fleming prescribed .32 (7.65 m/m). See Dr.No Chapter 2, "Choice of Weapons"
It is easy to confuse the .380 and .32 as they look exactly alike except for the writing on the slide (very small) and the bore diameter (about.06) so from a movie standpoint they are the same gun.
The PPK/S is a bast**d gun, a meld of the PP frame and PPK slide. It was created to comply with idiot US import regulations established by the Gun Control Act of 1968.
I will agree the look of the Bond's gun should not be the Primary consideration, but from a cinematic POV it should be a consideration. I'am just being "conservative" (traditional) and arguing for retaining the 1950's PPK for the same reason Bond has retained the 1964 Aston Martin.
7289,
Please don't apologize. I appreciate the information and the debate. I was unaware that the PPK was available as an eight round weapon.
Good to know. I don't mind a lecture, so long as it's informative.;)
The new PPS has one thing going for it that has changed my opinion in favor of it. It is less than an inch thick. That is amazing for concealed carry. The drawback for me is the lack of a de-****. I really like that in a hammerless pistol, well any pistol really. That is why I like the P99 better than the Glocks of the same size. Although, Glocks are nice pistols, and field stripping and cleaning are the best in the business.
As I understand it, the PPS is not yet available here in the states. While I know some folks have pre-ordered them, I don't think anyone has actually got one "in hand", so I am going to withhold judgement on it for now.
An inch thick sounds small, but there are many pistols in that range, including the famous PPK. I am still rather hoping they hold off changing Bond's pistol in #22 - we will just have to keep listening!!!
As I understand it, the PPS is not yet available here in the states. While I know some folks have pre-ordered them, I don't think anyone has actually got one "in hand", so I am going to withhold judgement on it for now.
An inch thick sounds small, but there are many pistols in that range, including the famous PPK. I am still rather hoping they hold off changing Bond's pistol in #22 - we will just have to keep listening!!!
While it is true that there are several pistols that are less than an inch thick, including the PPK, there are dramatically fewer that use the NATO 9x19mm round which in and of itself is superior to the .32 or even the .380 round of the various PPKs in as far as field usefulness. I believe this is the reason for the switch to the P99 to begin with.
I all seriousness I doubt they will replace the P99 with the PPS. There is no real need to. Concealed carry means nothing in a movie. In a movie you could shoot someone with a Howitzer, put in your coat and the next scene it can't be seen. They just don't wear it. Look at Dirty Harry, his .44 is there when he needs it but you can't see it the rest of the time.
The PPS is an ugly weapon, but from reading the press release it has a lot going for it, with regard to aesthetics the P99 compared to the PPK is a very ugly gun. I'd favour 007 swapping to the PPS as it is more realistic as a concealed carry gun for a secret agent. However, the PPK to my mind is more realistic than either - due to it's less noisy calibre. I've always felt that what gets lost in the arguments regarding weaponry is that 007's job is a stealthy one, so an assassin-type handgun such as the SOE silenced Welrod's or the OSS Hi-Standard's would be what a real 007 type agent would carry. However, if he does change and it isn't a Walther my vote would be for the HK USP Compact which is an extremely high quality pistol and has nice lines for a modern gun.
So far opinion on the PPS is pretty favorable. There are always those folks who can break anything brand new be it a car, pistol or DVD player, some complaints from their ilk - but overall the new PPS has been favorably recieved.
Is the PPS appropriate for oo7? Well, after doing a lot of reading on it, I'd say "Yes". I thought the P99 was a very good choice for CR'06, and a better fit with DC than PB.
There still won't be a fan vote, and while I'll always mourn the PPK - the real thing hs been discontinued and I am glad oo7 isn't packing the modern S&W version. For now I would rather see Bond with either the P99 or PPS.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
I actually really like the PPS now. The shape has grown on me and it's a wicked looking little weapon. It would look so cool with a CR suppressor. As soon as I have access to one I'll do a mock up and post some pics.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited August 2007
I agree. I hope this one ends up being issued to Bond :007)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I believe this is the first really NEW Walther since the P99, so it seems like the PPS may be in the right place at the right time.
The PPS is just now being released in the US, I don't know if it's been out on the continent yet -Walther may have to scramble in order to get them in the film, as it appears lensing has begun!
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
edited August 2007
Walther would have been able to supply these months ago for the film business, they have been evaluating it for two years to iron out the bugs. So if they do use it in 22, supply would be no problem. I hope they do use it too now, with the P99 kept for serious encounters in his cars weapon tray.
I really liked the way the P99 was utilized in CR'06! The Vega holster was a very realistic choice, even if its staying in place during that chase after Mollacka was quite astounding.
I liked Bond keeping his pistol in the envelope at the hotel desk!
But I think the PPS would fit in nicely, as a more personal carry pistol - but who knows what the script writers or prop people are up to? A new or additional pistol could be a way to re-introduce Q branch "gags".
Wondering if DC's oo7 goes to the PPS, will he go back to a shoulder holster or stick with an Waistband version? Of course I like the large envelope myself.
In CR'06 Bond uses the silencer ALOT. If they were to switch to the PPS, would he still resort to the silencer?
It has also occured to me that because there are lots of P99 airsofts, the P99 is easy to use in films since the camera can't really tell the difference between airsoft and real. They are also easier and more reliable with "blanks", than retrofitting a real pistol.
Without any airsoft models of the PPS, if the PPS is a pain to remodel so it reliabily works with blanks, that could be an obstacle in using it in Bond 22.
Without any airsoft models of the PPS, if the PPS is a pain to remodel so it reliabily works with blanks, that could be an obstacle in using it in Bond 22.
This is true, although the PPS can be converted to fire blanks quite easily, and it doesn't seem to be a problem for other films and film makers. Plus in CR there were several other live conversions used - Foucans USP compact for one.
We shall see. I can't wait to see the first press photos and on set pics.
Just for the heck of it I picked up the latest "Bond on Set" book.
Looking at the cover, I was surprised to see DC pointing what appeared to be a blued PPK at me. This photo, plus the appearance of a silenced stainless PPK in posters and publicity pictures, makes me wonder if we will have to see the movie to find out if Bond actually gets a new sidearm.
I was hoping that in CR'06 we would see Bond with the PPK at least once, but it never happened.
I guess there is still hope, prehaps Dimitrios left an old PPK in the glovebox of the DB5?
I also think the PPS should be the next service weapon for Bond, and I say this with the conviction that can only come from lack of any real knowladge about handguns. The PPS is the size of a PPK and has a name that is very close to PPK, it is Walther's heir to the PPK (source: Wikipedia;%)The size makes it much more believable to be worn concealed in situations like the Madagascar stakeout in CR - it even has the word "thin/slim" in it's name. I
t's ment for consealed carry and it looks good.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
ASP- that is possibly the UGLIEST silencer I have ever seen! ) Even so I think the PPS would look great with it!
It is a beast, but it is more visually interesting than the usual cylinders you get, that's why I liked the CR suppressor. As soon as I get my mits on the PPS (in about three weeks with any luck) I'll post some pics with some different suppressors
Comments
I used to hate the P99, but after CR'06 It grew on me to the point I actually bought one. I may grow to like the PPS too!
However, I think oo7 should still use the old PPK - at least ocassionally. I do not think that Bond should be a member of the "gun of the month" club and change personal weapons in every movie.
I completely disagree about excepting Bond's personal gun from his "personal style". He has got be be classy and his gun should reflect that!
I love the scene in TLD where oo7 takes on Whittaker with a PPK, and BW pulls out a Machine pistol and blasts the hell out of Bond.
"You've had your 8 - now I'll have my 80!" Bond should be able to make up for being "undergunned" by his extraordinary accuracy with the PPK, or through his tenacity and grand good luck.
BTW I don't care what villians carry, oo7 should be able to pick up any of their guns and make good use of them.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
By the way Dalton's Bond in TLD cannot be using a PPK against Whitaker. The PPK has a six round magazine. At most, with a round in the chamber and a fully loaded mag the PPK is a seven round gun. Maybe Dalton's 007 was carrying a PPKS which would allow for eight rounds in .380 caliber but unless he had his PPK fitted with an extended magazine(if so no mention is made of this)then he is not carrying a PPK.
My only point in all this is simply that stopping power, concealability, reliability and versatility(a lot of 'ilities, I'll admit) have to be the primary considerations for an agent like Bond. I would want to know that any weapon I carried would be able to do the job.
And from an esthetics point of view an ugly gun can present a dramatic contrast, anote of harsh realism in this otherwise glittering make believe world.{:)
Bond's (AKA Dalton) PPK should be a .32 not a .380. The .32 PPK will hold 8 rounds, 7 in the magazine and 1 in the chamber.
The EON prop men substituted a .380 PPK instead of the proper Fleming prescribed .32 (7.65 m/m). See Dr.No Chapter 2, "Choice of Weapons"
It is easy to confuse the .380 and .32 as they look exactly alike except for the writing on the slide (very small) and the bore diameter (about.06) so from a movie standpoint they are the same gun.
The PPK/S is a bast**d gun, a meld of the PP frame and PPK slide. It was created to comply with idiot US import regulations established by the Gun Control Act of 1968.
I will agree the look of the Bond's gun should not be the Primary consideration, but from a cinematic POV it should be a consideration. I'am just being "conservative" (traditional) and arguing for retaining the 1950's PPK for the same reason Bond has retained the 1964 Aston Martin.
P.S. Sorry about the lecture
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Please don't apologize. I appreciate the information and the debate. I was unaware that the PPK was available as an eight round weapon.
Good to know. I don't mind a lecture, so long as it's informative.;)
Thanks,
Too bad the decision about and if oo7 gets a new gun is out of our hands. I'm sure we'd make a better pick than some prop man at EON!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
A little off topic, but why doesn't Bond use the Walther G22?
For what?
An inch thick sounds small, but there are many pistols in that range, including the famous PPK. I am still rather hoping they hold off changing Bond's pistol in #22 - we will just have to keep listening!!!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
While it is true that there are several pistols that are less than an inch thick, including the PPK, there are dramatically fewer that use the NATO 9x19mm round which in and of itself is superior to the .32 or even the .380 round of the various PPKs in as far as field usefulness. I believe this is the reason for the switch to the P99 to begin with.
I all seriousness I doubt they will replace the P99 with the PPS. There is no real need to. Concealed carry means nothing in a movie. In a movie you could shoot someone with a Howitzer, put in your coat and the next scene it can't be seen. They just don't wear it. Look at Dirty Harry, his .44 is there when he needs it but you can't see it the rest of the time.
I hope you are right and they stick with the older P99 in the next film.
I guess the first editions of the PPS is now out -so far fairly good reviews.
Who knows though, if they reinstate "Q" giving oo7 a new pistol in Bond 22 might be an opportunity to reintroduce the charecter.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Is the PPS appropriate for oo7? Well, after doing a lot of reading on it, I'd say "Yes". I thought the P99 was a very good choice for CR'06, and a better fit with DC than PB.
There still won't be a fan vote, and while I'll always mourn the PPK - the real thing hs been discontinued and I am glad oo7 isn't packing the modern S&W version. For now I would rather see Bond with either the P99 or PPS.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
So far it is shaping up nicely, looks are growing on me as well. I look forward to actually getting one in hand!
This might just be the ticket for the new funnier version of DC's oo7!!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Rapier Wit! {[]
http://walther-pps.com/
Plus the September Guns and Ammo mag has a reveiw of the little fella.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
The PPS is just now being released in the US, I don't know if it's been out on the continent yet -Walther may have to scramble in order to get them in the film, as it appears lensing has begun!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
I liked Bond keeping his pistol in the envelope at the hotel desk!
But I think the PPS would fit in nicely, as a more personal carry pistol - but who knows what the script writers or prop people are up to? A new or additional pistol could be a way to re-introduce Q branch "gags".
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Impressive set up for that P99C.
Wondering if DC's oo7 goes to the PPS, will he go back to a shoulder holster or stick with an Waistband version? Of course I like the large envelope myself.
In CR'06 Bond uses the silencer ALOT. If they were to switch to the PPS, would he still resort to the silencer?
It has also occured to me that because there are lots of P99 airsofts, the P99 is easy to use in films since the camera can't really tell the difference between airsoft and real. They are also easier and more reliable with "blanks", than retrofitting a real pistol.
Without any airsoft models of the PPS, if the PPS is a pain to remodel so it reliabily works with blanks, that could be an obstacle in using it in Bond 22.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
This is true, although the PPS can be converted to fire blanks quite easily, and it doesn't seem to be a problem for other films and film makers. Plus in CR there were several other live conversions used - Foucans USP compact for one.
We shall see. I can't wait to see the first press photos and on set pics.
Looking at the cover, I was surprised to see DC pointing what appeared to be a blued PPK at me. This photo, plus the appearance of a silenced stainless PPK in posters and publicity pictures, makes me wonder if we will have to see the movie to find out if Bond actually gets a new sidearm.
I was hoping that in CR'06 we would see Bond with the PPK at least once,
I guess there is still hope, prehaps Dimitrios left an old PPK in the glovebox of the DB5?
P.S. ASP9mm ........ NICE PHOTOS!!!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
t's ment for consealed carry and it looks good.
It is a beast, but it is more visually interesting than the usual cylinders you get, that's why I liked the CR suppressor. As soon as I get my mits on the PPS (in about three weeks with any luck) I'll post some pics with some different suppressors