I just don't get your continued cheap shots at the Nolan films.
Just my opinion, nothing more or less. Hey it works for you, you have a Batman you really like, great.
As for TDKR, I guess I'm thinking of moments like, after the mutant leader nearly kills Batman, Batman lures him to a mudhole to negate the younger man's superior reflexes - that's being smarter than the bad guy. He does something like that again at the end, tricking Superman into believing he's dead. IMHO, Batman doesn't just kick ass, he out-thinks everybody else in the story, and even when he gets caught in a jam, he's got a trick or two up his sleeve. I didn't see that Batman in either of Nolan's films, Wayne/Batman seemed little more than a developmentally-stunted emo-boy (not that that's all that far off from being a decent characterization, just the way Nolan/Bale did it fell short of the mark for me, the smarts were woefully under-developed IMO). Granted Batman is a reactionary character, he can't do anything until some bad guy starts a ruckus, but IMHO Nolan's plotting limited that reaction far too much. For me it was Batman in a minor key, very minor.
Awesome Joker though, really liked Ledger's performance. And just remembering: Gordan's disappearing trick was very classic Batman, so that counts in my book. Just not enough of that good stuff to satisfy my Batman jones. To each their own and all that, BTAS still works best for me, and I'm usually no fan of cartoon series. C'est la vie.
I agree with Tony about Kilmer being a fine Batman. I also like Keaton's quiet misfit. Certainly a lot more than Bale who IMO has no personality whatsoever. For all his technical gifts as an actor he is a crashing bore.
And Batman Returns IMO is a sick masterpiece, easily on a par with the best of Tim Burton's work. I'll admit that it may appeal more to fans of Burton than Batman, but I'm both so it's win-win. As for TDK, well it doesn't need my backing. It's very good, better than any of the other Bat movies except BR, but it's just cold. There's something missing. I admire it, but I don't care for it.
Will Dan Same weep quietly under his bed, as he clutches his pillow, if Spidey loses the all-time comic book box office record?
He hasn't lost it yet. :v DK may overtake him, but for now Spidey still holds the record! Don't worry, however, DK may take the record but Spider-Man 4 will take it back. )
According to Box Office Mojo, TDK is just a few hundred-thousands from passing the summer hit Iron Man and nothing else stands in the way other than The Young & The Restless trilogy!
I do believe you've finally seen the light when it comes to the Angst & The Maiden Trilogy. Welcome to the dark side Rogue, your arrival has been long overdue.
X-( Rogue, ignore the Prince of Darkness. Spider-Man 3 is c**p but the first two films are masterpieces. Do not allow Satan to lead you to darkness; stay with us on the side of purity and justice and remember that we're talking about one of the greatest superheroes of all time!
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I too agree with Tony that Kilmer was a terrific Batman. I also think that Keaton was a brilliant Batman; a shame that he didn't have a better film to depart on.
Certainly a lot more than Bale who IMO has no personality whatsoever. For all his technical gifts as an actor he is a crashing bore.
You know, I was originally going to express my absolute amazement at this, but I don't disagree with you.
In BB, Bale was IMO absolutely extraordinary. He was fun, tough, sensitive and was also capable of acting like a spoilt brat. His performance in BB was IMO the greatest ever performance in the role of Batman.
In DK, however, Bale didn't seem as interesting to me. I don't think he's boring, but in DK, it seemed to me that when he wasn't playing a bratt, he was rather empty. I still think he was interesting, but nowhere near as much as in the first film, and of course nowhere near as much as Ledger.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I too agree with Tony that Kilmer was a terrific Batman. I also think that Keaton was a brilliant Batman; a shame that he didn't have a better film to depart on.
Keaton was a good Batman, though the documentaries on the DVDs show just how little he was actually in the Batsuit; other than scenes involving closeups and dialog, stunt people and gymnasts actually did most of the heavy lifting. Where he really falters though is with Bruce Wayne. His perpetually distracted, socially awkward Wayne is a little too bizarre (witness the scene where he sleeps upside down or when he tries to "get nuts" with the Joker) and really doesn't map to his comicbook counterpart.
Rogue, ignore the Prince of Darkness.
) ) ) I've been called many things in my life, but I don't think I've ever been pegged with that moniker; don't really think it suits me though.
and remember that we're talking about one of the greatest superheroes of all time!
In DK, however, Bale didn't seem as interesting to me. I don't think he's boring, but in DK, it seemed to me that when he wasn't playing a bratt, he was rather empty. I still think he was interesting, but nowhere near as much as in the first film, and of course nowhere near as much as Ledger.
At least he wasn't crying every two minutes like you know who. :v
Seriously though, the observation that Wayne is often emotionally empty is a valid one. Thing is, that is EXACTLY how he is often portrayed in the comics as well. One of the reasons I stopped reading the Batman books regularly back in the late 80's/early 90's was because seemingly in every issue Wayne was portrayed as this empty individual obsessed only with going out at night and fighting crime. If I recall correctly, Alfred even left for a while because of Wayne's emotional detachment and obsessive commitment to being Batman.
So, while it may not be the most dramatically satisfying portrayal, it is very much in keeping with the comic where more often than not Batman is the dominant identity and Bruce Wayne is simply the public mask/persona to throw everybody off the scent.
Where he really falters though is with Bruce Wayne. His perpetually distracted, socially awkward Wayne is a little too bizarre (witness the scene where he sleeps upside down or when he tries to "get nuts" with the Joker) and really doesn't map to his comicbook counterpart.
Truth be told, I really liked him as Bruce Wayne. Yes, some of his behaviour is bizarre, but IMO it fits the character (a billionare who dresses up in a bat suit to fight crime) in a film which isn't realist like the Nolan ones but is instead extremely essentric. I don't think it would be a good look for Nolan's Batman to sleep upside down, and nor would he, but I think it suits Keaton's Batman perfectly.
At least he wasn't crying every two minutes like you know who. :v.
Actually, take back what I said about calling you the Prince of Darkness being harsh. It's not harsh enough. )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I thought Keaton's performance as Wayne improved in BR: scenes with Pfieffer at the manson and Walken in his office stand out in my memory. Agree he was a bit too distracted in the original.
Also think the Batman/Catwoman juxtaposition in BR works far better than Batman/Joker in TDK. Diferent strokes.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
X-( Rogue, ignore the Prince of Darkness. Spider-Man 3 is c**p but the first two films are masterpieces. Do not allow Satan to lead you to darkness; stay with us on the side of purity and justice and remember that we're talking about one of the greatest superheroes of all time!
I don't know, Dan... after viewing TDK (which rose the comic book movie bar considerably) I have a strong urge to kill Spidey-fanboy younglings... :v
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
77 pages in this thread, and I'm making my first visit. I know my limitations. I'll take on anyone in Bond knowledge, Warner Brothers cartoons, and sports-related arcana. Comic books, superheroes and their derivative films -- uh, not so much. I am WAAAAAY beneath the class of most posters on this thread. Best I can tell from the few recent posts I have read, there are tons of factions playing out in here, but most of the discourse is beyond me.
All that said...I saw The Dark Knight yesterday. Impressions from a novice:
-- Nolan's films are far superior to any of the previous four, IMO, although Burton's first was a lot of fun.
-- I will admit to having a hazy memory of Begins' details (having seen it just once), but TDK certainly left me with a better impression on first viewing.
-- Ledger is spectacular. I was prepared to be let down, having read so much hype about his performance, but he really delivers. The character is so palpably creepy, I felt like I needed a shower after watching him. His scene with Eckhart in the hospital is brilliant, made better still by the uproariously funny sight of him walking away from the building afterwards. I usually hate it when people's reputations become undeservedly inflated after they die ("ooh, he was THE BEST...!"). But in Heath Ledger, I genuinely believe we were looking at an actor with the potential to be one of the all-time greats. Most actors would be thrilled to give two performances in their lifetime that match his in TDK and Brokeback (which is one of the greatest acting jobs I have seen in any movie, ever.)
-- Didn't love Bale in this, to be honest. I get the whole tortured hero thing, but Batman's explosive anger, yelling, growly voice -- they feel a little manufactured for me. And as Wayne, Bale barely manages to convince me he has a pulse.
-- Not crazy about Maggie Gyllenhall, either. I'll be honest -- I don't remember Katie Holmes to well in Begins, but I keep hearing what an upgrade Maggie is. I don't know -- she had no chemistry with Bale, Eckhart or even Ledger.
-- Although his acting was a little stilted (maybe that was intentional?) Eckhart was perfect in the role of Dent. He plays smarmy so well. Heard Matt Damon turned this down -- thank goodness.
-- How come no one ever talks about the great job Gary Oldman does in this film? Especially since he's playing against type. My 12-year-old daughter, a huge Potter fan, would not accept that this man also played Sirius Black.
-- Freeman and Caine? They don't really ever disappoint anymore, do they? Perhaps that's because they are at that glorious stage in their careers in which they seem to play only roles that seem tailor-made for them -- namely, mentors.
-- I found the whole arc of Two-Face's character to be rushed. Couldn't they have made him the centerpiece of the next story, or would that be too obvious?
-- That said, we're clearly set up for an interesting sequel, no? Cool how we know, that as dark as things were for our hero in this film, they promise to get far blacker still before light comes.
All in all, a nifty film that I would be happy to see again tomorrow.
OK, the experts may once again have the floor... :007)
Hilly...you old devil!
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
edited July 2008
For being just a novice, you certainly know when you've seen a good Batman film, Hilly.
Good review. Cheers. {[]
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
-- Not crazy about Maggie Gyllenhall, either. I'll be honest -- I don't remember Katie Holmes to well in Begins, but I keep hearing what an upgrade Maggie is. I don't know -- she had no chemistry with Bale, Eckhart or even Ledger.
I thought Maggie was quite good and a definite upgrade to Katie Holmes, whose character, to me, was really flat.
-- How come no one ever talks about the great job Gary Oldman does in this film? Especially since he's playing against type. My 12-year-old daughter, a huge Potter fan, would not accept that this man also played Sirius Black.
Very good point, I do think Oldman was very good, he brings several dimensions to his character, easily the best Commissioner Gordon ever.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Very good point, I do think Oldman was very good, he brings several dimensions to his character, easily the best Commissioner Gordon ever.
Better than Neil Hamilton?
Are you kidding? Neil Hamilton's Commissioner Gordon was so helpless he'd run for the Batphone even if the toilet got backed up (either that, or he had a serious man-crush on the Bat).
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Very good point, I do think Oldman was very good, he brings several dimensions to his character, easily the best Commissioner Gordon ever.
Better than Neil Hamilton?
Are you kidding? Neil Hamilton was so helpless he'd run for the Batphone even if the toilet got backed up.
) ) )
I have been wishing that Nolan would implement a little tongue-in-cheek by putting a red phone in Oldman/Gordon's office.
Not to use of course, just to see if the viewer would notice and make the connection. )
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Gary Oldman was very impressive in TDK. he got a lot more to do than in BB and did it without the make up and flashy part, just playing Mr Ordinary. He could easily play a villain as he's done before and I think he'd be a good Bond villain.
-- Didn't love Bale in this, to be honest. I get the whole tortured hero thing, but Batman's explosive anger, yelling, growly voice -- they feel a little manufactured for me. And as Wayne, Bale barely manages to convince me he has a pulse.
Yup, just not The Guy for me either, man or bat. Which is why this quote -
-- Not crazy about Maggie Gyllenhall, either. I'll be honest -- I don't remember Katie Holmes to well in Begins, but I keep hearing what an upgrade Maggie is. I don't know -- she had no chemistry with Bale, Eckhart or even Ledger.
Also a big issue with this, Batman's big choice/motivation in the film is choosing between her and being a Dark Knight. If the love interest is limp and Gotham functions fine on it's own, where's the plot? Saying Gotham needs Batman (or even Wayne's love for Rachael is big enough to make him want to quit the cowl) when you effectively demonstrate the opposite = not good.
-- I found the whole arc of Two-Face's character to be rushed. Couldn't they have made him the centerpiece of the next story, or would that be too obvious?
In all fairness, THIS is the worst Bruce Wayne/Batman.
Clay Aiken is Bruce Wayne!(Yeah-I know--that was mean...)I think this version of Bruce is second only to Michael Keaton as an example of unfortunate miscasting when it comes to Batman.
Like Tony,I prefer Val Kilmer's interpretation of Wayne and Batman.Of all of the Batman actors he has the best voice, and he seems comfortable and confident in the role.Kilmer's also a believably physical Batman--something Keaton wasn't--and I think that's important for any actor who plays this athletic character.Batman Forever may not be a masterpiece(in all fairness,neither is 1989's Batman), but it's screenplay does allow Batman to actually take center stage and function as the masked detective he is in the comics--as opposed to just standing around in the wings while the villain hams it up outrageously.
I'm no great fan of Jones's Two-Face, but I do think the villain's origin was handled elegantly within the movie--and without halting the flow of the storyline.Carrey was okay as The Riddler but I think he would've made an outstanding--even sinister--Joker(based upon his turn as The Mask).No big fan of Robin, but the writers shoehorned his origin into the story fairly gracefully.Overall,(IMO)Batman Forever's a good movie--considerably better than Batman Returns or the mess called Batman and Robin.
Overall,(IMO)Batman Forever's a good movie--considerably better than Batman Returns or the mess called Batman and Robin.
Full agreement WG; its campy and OTT lapses notwithstanding, I've always found Batman Forever to be the most "comic booky" (it that's a valid phrase) of the films with equal parts humor and seriousness. With all due respect to TDK, which is a great film in its own right and on its own merits, in terms of both being a "fun" Batman film to watch and presenting a look that harkens to the comic, Batman Forever comes closest to the mark for me.
Speaking of TDK, the box office records continue to crumble. It earned another $84 million in foreign box office over the weekend, bringing its total gross so far to $442 million after only 10 days. It also continues to reach box office milestones faster than any other film. Reaching Spiderman 3's take of $336 million domestic is almost a foregone conclusion at this point. It'll be interesting to see if it has the legs to unseat the first Spiderman movie, which still holds the title of biggest domestic hit at just under $404 million.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I don't know, Dan... after viewing TDK (which rose the comic book movie bar considerably) I have a strong urge to kill Spidey-fanboy younglings... :v
Gooooood. Gooooooooooood!!
What have I done?!!! ) ) ) )
You guys are evil. )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Reaching Spiderman 3's take of $336 million domestic is almost a foregone conclusion at this point.
Get ready to eat crow, Dan!!!!! Yeah!!!! :v ) ) )
NEVER! X-( It still hasn't matched the first two Spider-Man films. :v )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
-- Didn't love Bale in this, to be honest. I get the whole tortured hero thing, but Batman's explosive anger, yelling, growly voice -- they feel a little manufactured for me. And as Wayne, Bale barely manages to convince me he has a pulse.
Yup, just not The Guy for me either, man or bat. Which is why this quote -
-- Nolan's films are far superior to any of the previous four, IMO, although Burton's first was a lot of fun.
- puzzles me. A lesser Batman/Wayne makes for a superior Batman movie? Not for me I guess.
Appreciate the feedback, blue. You're a more engrained fan of Batman than I am, so I can see how you would find my comments contradictory. But for a relative "casual-ista" like me, the film and the character really stand apart. With TDK (and BB, from what I remember of it) I felt like I was watching a cool movie that featured Batman as the main character, as opposed to a "Batman movie" -- if that makes any sense. As for Bale...while I admire his commitment to his craft and commend him for some daring career choices, I'm not convinced he's much of a thespian. I would argue that the intensely conflicted nature of Wayne/Batman in the Nolan films actually places a higher burden on the actor playing him than the Burton/Schumacher films did, and in that respect I am guessing that someone with chops of Kilmer would have done a better job.
As for Bale...while I admire his commitment to his craft and commend him for some daring career choices, I'm not convinced he's much of a thespian. I would argue that the intensely conflicted nature of Wayne/Batman in the Nolan films actually places a higher burden on the actor playing him than the Burton/Schumacher films did, and in that respect I am guessing that someone with chops of Kilmer would have done a better job.
I love Kilmer; arguably one of the most underrated actors of his generation. Sir Hill, I don't disagree with you at all about Bale regarding The Dark Knight, but I thought he was fantastic in Batman Begins. I know that your memories of BB are pretty hazy, but do you remember what you think of Bale in it? If so, do you feel the same way that you do about him in DK?
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Reaching Spiderman 3's take of $336 million domestic is almost a foregone conclusion at this point.
Get ready to eat crow, Dan!!!!! Yeah!!!! :v ) ) )
NEVER! X-( It still hasn't matched the first two Spider-Man films. :v )
Don't look now, Dan but...
1 Spider-Man Sony $403,706,375
2 Spider-Man 2 Sony $373,585,825
3 Spider-Man 3 Sony $336,530,303
4 The Dark Knight WB $324,299,793
5 Iron Man Par. $314,967,980
After last night's b.o. take for TDK.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited July 2008
Wow. They might turn a profit with this one...
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
As if I'm not in the minority already... just saw The Incredible Hulk, and IMHO it's the superhero movie TDK wants to be. Except for Ledger's outstanding performance, TIH owns TDK in every other way: better lead, better love story, better told (if not as high and mighty in it's aim) main plotline. Abomination's head was too small for his body, but that's it with picked nits. I'm kinda shocked it's as good as it is, same way I'm shocked TDK fails as much as it does. Weirdness.
This may be nonsence, but I came across this article regarding Angelina Jolie playing Catwoman. My personal view is that she would make a brilliant Catwoman, but in no way should it be in a stand-alone film. It should defintitely be in a Batman film, whether it be the third Nolan film or the JLA film or another film entirely.
Angelina Jolie to play Catwoman in new Batman
ANGELINA Jolie is reportedly being lined up to star as Batman's nemesis Catwoman in a new movie, and she has the blessing of the original actress to take the role.
The 33-year-old actress – who gave birth to twins Knox and Vivienne earlier this month – is said to be in final negotiations with studio bosses to play the feline villain who first appeared in the Batman comics.
It is not clear whether she would play the role in the current Batman film series, starring Christian Bale as the caped crusader, or in a spin-off film as Halle Berry did in 2004's Catwoman.
Actress Julie Newmar, who played Catwoman in the Batman TV series from 1966 to 1967, has given her blessing for Jolie to play the part.
"Angelina would own the part," Newmar, now 74, said.
"My industry friends tell me she has already made enquiries about the role. I can understand how it would pique her interest. Catwoman is Batman's one true love.
"She is tremendously popular with women because she's both a heroine and a villainess."
Other actresses to take on the role of Catwoman include Michelle Pfeiffer in 1992 movie Batman Returns, and Eartha Kitt who took over from Newmar in the TV series.
Jolie was recently tipped to be starring in The Thomas Crown Affair 2 alongside Pierce Brosnan and has reportedly been ordered by studio bosses to put on weight for the role.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Comments
As for TDKR, I guess I'm thinking of moments like, after the mutant leader nearly kills Batman, Batman lures him to a mudhole to negate the younger man's superior reflexes - that's being smarter than the bad guy. He does something like that again at the end, tricking Superman into believing he's dead. IMHO, Batman doesn't just kick ass, he out-thinks everybody else in the story, and even when he gets caught in a jam, he's got a trick or two up his sleeve. I didn't see that Batman in either of Nolan's films, Wayne/Batman seemed little more than a developmentally-stunted emo-boy (not that that's all that far off from being a decent characterization, just the way Nolan/Bale did it fell short of the mark for me, the smarts were woefully under-developed IMO). Granted Batman is a reactionary character, he can't do anything until some bad guy starts a ruckus, but IMHO Nolan's plotting limited that reaction far too much. For me it was Batman in a minor key, very minor.
Awesome Joker though, really liked Ledger's performance. And just remembering: Gordan's disappearing trick was very classic Batman, so that counts in my book. Just not enough of that good stuff to satisfy my Batman jones. To each their own and all that, BTAS still works best for me, and I'm usually no fan of cartoon series. C'est la vie.
And Batman Returns IMO is a sick masterpiece, easily on a par with the best of Tim Burton's work. I'll admit that it may appeal more to fans of Burton than Batman, but I'm both so it's win-win. As for TDK, well it doesn't need my backing. It's very good, better than any of the other Bat movies except BR, but it's just cold. There's something missing. I admire it, but I don't care for it.
X-( Rogue, ignore the Prince of Darkness. Spider-Man 3 is c**p but the first two films are masterpieces.
You know, I was originally going to express my absolute amazement at this, but I don't disagree with you.
In BB, Bale was IMO absolutely extraordinary. He was fun, tough, sensitive and was also capable of acting like a spoilt brat. His performance in BB was IMO the greatest ever performance in the role of Batman.
In DK, however, Bale didn't seem as interesting to me. I don't think he's boring, but in DK, it seemed to me that when he wasn't playing a bratt, he was rather empty. I still think he was interesting, but nowhere near as much as in the first film, and of course nowhere near as much as Ledger.
Keaton was a good Batman, though the documentaries on the DVDs show just how little he was actually in the Batsuit; other than scenes involving closeups and dialog, stunt people and gymnasts actually did most of the heavy lifting. Where he really falters though is with Bruce Wayne. His perpetually distracted, socially awkward Wayne is a little too bizarre (witness the scene where he sleeps upside down or when he tries to "get nuts" with the Joker) and really doesn't map to his comicbook counterpart.
You mean you were talking about Green Lantern?
At least he wasn't crying every two minutes like you know who. :v
Seriously though, the observation that Wayne is often emotionally empty is a valid one. Thing is, that is EXACTLY how he is often portrayed in the comics as well. One of the reasons I stopped reading the Batman books regularly back in the late 80's/early 90's was because seemingly in every issue Wayne was portrayed as this empty individual obsessed only with going out at night and fighting crime. If I recall correctly, Alfred even left for a while because of Wayne's emotional detachment and obsessive commitment to being Batman.
So, while it may not be the most dramatically satisfying portrayal, it is very much in keeping with the comic where more often than not Batman is the dominant identity and Bruce Wayne is simply the public mask/persona to throw everybody off the scent.
No, probably not.
I'll let you know when the Green Lantern movie is made and I go see it. :v
Actually, take back what I said about calling you the Prince of Darkness being harsh. It's not harsh enough.
Also think the Batman/Catwoman juxtaposition in BR works far better than Batman/Joker in TDK. Diferent strokes.
I don't know, Dan... after viewing TDK (which rose the comic book movie bar considerably) I have a strong urge to kill Spidey-fanboy younglings... :v
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Gooooood. Gooooooooooood!!
What have I done?!!!
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
All that said...I saw The Dark Knight yesterday. Impressions from a novice:
-- Nolan's films are far superior to any of the previous four, IMO, although Burton's first was a lot of fun.
-- I will admit to having a hazy memory of Begins' details (having seen it just once), but TDK certainly left me with a better impression on first viewing.
-- Ledger is spectacular. I was prepared to be let down, having read so much hype about his performance, but he really delivers. The character is so palpably creepy, I felt like I needed a shower after watching him. His scene with Eckhart in the hospital is brilliant, made better still by the uproariously funny sight of him walking away from the building afterwards. I usually hate it when people's reputations become undeservedly inflated after they die ("ooh, he was THE BEST...!"). But in Heath Ledger, I genuinely believe we were looking at an actor with the potential to be one of the all-time greats. Most actors would be thrilled to give two performances in their lifetime that match his in TDK and Brokeback (which is one of the greatest acting jobs I have seen in any movie, ever.)
-- Didn't love Bale in this, to be honest. I get the whole tortured hero thing, but Batman's explosive anger, yelling, growly voice -- they feel a little manufactured for me. And as Wayne, Bale barely manages to convince me he has a pulse.
-- Not crazy about Maggie Gyllenhall, either. I'll be honest -- I don't remember Katie Holmes to well in Begins, but I keep hearing what an upgrade Maggie is. I don't know -- she had no chemistry with Bale, Eckhart or even Ledger.
-- Although his acting was a little stilted (maybe that was intentional?) Eckhart was perfect in the role of Dent. He plays smarmy so well. Heard Matt Damon turned this down -- thank goodness.
-- How come no one ever talks about the great job Gary Oldman does in this film? Especially since he's playing against type. My 12-year-old daughter, a huge Potter fan, would not accept that this man also played Sirius Black.
-- Freeman and Caine? They don't really ever disappoint anymore, do they? Perhaps that's because they are at that glorious stage in their careers in which they seem to play only roles that seem tailor-made for them -- namely, mentors.
-- I found the whole arc of Two-Face's character to be rushed. Couldn't they have made him the centerpiece of the next story, or would that be too obvious?
-- That said, we're clearly set up for an interesting sequel, no? Cool how we know, that as dark as things were for our hero in this film, they promise to get far blacker still before light comes.
All in all, a nifty film that I would be happy to see again tomorrow.
OK, the experts may once again have the floor... :007)
Good review. Cheers. {[]
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Better than Neil Hamilton?
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Ditto. Very astute observations there Sir Hillary. {[]
Are you kidding? Neil Hamilton's Commissioner Gordon was so helpless he'd run for the Batphone even if the toilet got backed up (either that, or he had a serious man-crush on the Bat).
I have been wishing that Nolan would implement a little tongue-in-cheek by putting a red phone in Oldman/Gordon's office.
Not to use of course, just to see if the viewer would notice and make the connection.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Yup, just not The Guy for me either, man or bat. Which is why this quote - - puzzles me. A lesser Batman/Wayne makes for a superior Batman movie? Not for me I guess. Also a big issue with this, Batman's big choice/motivation in the film is choosing between her and being a Dark Knight. If the love interest is limp and Gotham functions fine on it's own, where's the plot? Saying Gotham needs Batman (or even Wayne's love for Rachael is big enough to make him want to quit the cowl) when you effectively demonstrate the opposite = not good.
Yup again. Not a good blend of plot lines.
That's what I said the last time, oh well. Feels like 80s Bond back in the day, folks were lovin' it but for me it was just so not Bond. Weird.
Clay Aiken is Bruce Wayne!(Yeah-I know--that was mean...)I think this version of Bruce is second only to Michael Keaton as an example of unfortunate miscasting when it comes to Batman.
Like Tony,I prefer Val Kilmer's interpretation of Wayne and Batman.Of all of the Batman actors he has the best voice, and he seems comfortable and confident in the role.Kilmer's also a believably physical Batman--something Keaton wasn't--and I think that's important for any actor who plays this athletic character.Batman Forever may not be a masterpiece(in all fairness,neither is 1989's Batman), but it's screenplay does allow Batman to actually take center stage and function as the masked detective he is in the comics--as opposed to just standing around in the wings while the villain hams it up outrageously.
I'm no great fan of Jones's Two-Face, but I do think the villain's origin was handled elegantly within the movie--and without halting the flow of the storyline.Carrey was okay as The Riddler but I think he would've made an outstanding--even sinister--Joker(based upon his turn as The Mask).No big fan of Robin, but the writers shoehorned his origin into the story fairly gracefully.Overall,(IMO)Batman Forever's a good movie--considerably better than Batman Returns or the mess called Batman and Robin.
Full agreement WG; its campy and OTT lapses notwithstanding, I've always found Batman Forever to be the most "comic booky" (it that's a valid phrase) of the films with equal parts humor and seriousness. With all due respect to TDK, which is a great film in its own right and on its own merits, in terms of both being a "fun" Batman film to watch and presenting a look that harkens to the comic, Batman Forever comes closest to the mark for me.
Speaking of TDK, the box office records continue to crumble. It earned another $84 million in foreign box office over the weekend, bringing its total gross so far to $442 million after only 10 days. It also continues to reach box office milestones faster than any other film. Reaching Spiderman 3's take of $336 million domestic is almost a foregone conclusion at this point. It'll be interesting to see if it has the legs to unseat the first Spiderman movie, which still holds the title of biggest domestic hit at just under $404 million.
Get ready to eat crow, Dan!!!!! Yeah!!!! :v
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Don't look now, Dan but...
1 Spider-Man Sony $403,706,375
2 Spider-Man 2 Sony $373,585,825
3 Spider-Man 3 Sony $336,530,303
4 The Dark Knight WB $324,299,793
5 Iron Man Par. $314,967,980
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Angelina Jolie to play Catwoman in new Batman
ANGELINA Jolie is reportedly being lined up to star as Batman's nemesis Catwoman in a new movie, and she has the blessing of the original actress to take the role.
The 33-year-old actress – who gave birth to twins Knox and Vivienne earlier this month – is said to be in final negotiations with studio bosses to play the feline villain who first appeared in the Batman comics.
It is not clear whether she would play the role in the current Batman film series, starring Christian Bale as the caped crusader, or in a spin-off film as Halle Berry did in 2004's Catwoman.
Actress Julie Newmar, who played Catwoman in the Batman TV series from 1966 to 1967, has given her blessing for Jolie to play the part.
"Angelina would own the part," Newmar, now 74, said.
"My industry friends tell me she has already made enquiries about the role. I can understand how it would pique her interest. Catwoman is Batman's one true love.
"She is tremendously popular with women because she's both a heroine and a villainess."
Other actresses to take on the role of Catwoman include Michelle Pfeiffer in 1992 movie Batman Returns, and Eartha Kitt who took over from Newmar in the TV series.
Jolie was recently tipped to be starring in The Thomas Crown Affair 2 alongside Pierce Brosnan and has reportedly been ordered by studio bosses to put on weight for the role.