In my personal (and unasked for opinion) I don't think the Dark Knight is intended to provide any ideology or symbolism, but is, like any artistic endeavor, a product of its time. As a result, current events and attitudes provide inspiration and influence (whether intentional or not) in the realization of the idea. We live in dark times, and the conflict between free-society and radical terrorism is a normal framework from which to draw perspectives from when crafting a story about hero and villian archetypes.
For what it's worth Dan, I think people like Walid Aly over-analyse these movies. I tend to take the same viewpoint as Darenhat: films like The Dark Knight are very much of their time and will therefore use imagery that evokes associations with events of their time. Iron Man does the same thing at times (like tying his origins to middle-eastern terrorists) though on a more modest level.
To suggest that the movie is a justification of any one political agenda just jumps the shark; that's a pretty slippery slope and in trying to justify his views, Aly makes some contradictory arguments. You could apply any number of interpretations to events and characters in The Dark Knight.
Nolan deserves major kudos for allowing just enough of the real world to seep in so as to make the film feel relevant and accessible to an audience that would have otherwise ignored it. But at the end of the day, it's just a movie and to my way of thinking, its purpose should be to simply entertain.
All this article really proves is how superior the Batman movies are to Spider-Man: I'd like to see Aly try to tack one of his political rationalizations on those. :v
I don't visit this thread often so please excuse the interruption. And no offense meant to you, DS.
None taken. -{
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
As a matter of fact, I agree with both Tony and Darenhat. I don't think that DK has any particular ideology, which I think is one of its faults. Not because I want my superhero films to be ideological, as I don't, but because IMO the reason for the film's lack of ideology is that it so messy. I don't think it knows what it wants to be.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
As a matter of fact, I agree with both Tony and Darenhat. I don't think that DK has any particular ideology, which I think is one of its faults. Not because I want my superhero films to be ideological, as I don't, but because IMO the reason for the film's lack of ideology is that it so messy. I don't think it knows what it wants to be.
Yes, Dan, I saw this article last night and guess what? It means squat. Goyer's not running anything. As a matter of fact, he'd be only too happy if Nolan brought him along for the ride come sequel time and believe me...once sales go out of the roof for the TDK dvd this Christmas, expect an announcement that the third installment will go full steam ahead no later than early spring next year.
Goyer is hit-or-miss at best anyway. Look what he did with BLADE: Trinity.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Yes, Dan, I saw this article last night and guess what? It means squat. Goyer's not running anything. As a matter of fact, he'd be only too happy if Nolan brought him along for the ride come sequel time and believe me...once sales go out of the roof for the TDK dvd this Christmas, expect an announcement that the third installment will go full steam ahead no later than early spring next year.
My guess is that Nolan will do another film first - something smaller and less ambitious in scope - before going into production on his third Batman film. That was his MO the last time around and I have a feeling he'll do the same thing now.
Let's not forget that Christian Bale is only 34, he has plenty of years left in him to do another film - that's why WB was casting their superheroes young, they were thinking ahead for the sake of the franchise.
Green Lantern looks to be on the fast track to development; and if WB's smart they'll also make a decision on Superman and get that rolling ASAP. With those two characters to keep interest going, they'll then be able to give Nolan some space and breathing room to better entice him to return.
Goyer is hit-or-miss at best anyway. Look what he did with BLADE: Trinity.
More miss than hit. Didn't he also come up with that atrocious SuperMax concept?
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
edited October 2008
Very cool... B-)
The Dark Knight Dominates the Scream Awards
Source:Spike TV, ShockTillYouDrop.com October 20, 2008
Spike TV's third annual "SCREAM" awards, honoring the best in fantasy, sci-fi, comics and horror, were presented Saturday night at the Greek Theatre in Los Angeles. The show featured appearances by the industry's biggest stars including Kate Beckinsale, Kristen Bell, Rosario Dawson, the cast of "Dexter," Jon Favreau, the cast of Hellboy II: The Golden Army, Samuel L. Jackson, Milla Jovovich, Stan Lee, Gary Oldman, the Osbournes, Seth Rogen, Winona Ryder, Kevin Smith and Liv Tyler, among many others. The two-hour extravaganza also included musical performances by Grammy Award-winning band Smashing Pumpkins and up-and-coming pop sensation Kerli. "SCREAM 2008" will premiere on Spike TV on Tuesday, October 21 (9:00 - 11:00 PM, ET/PT).
George Lucas shocked and thrilled the audience when he walked out on stage flanked by Stormtroopers to accept the Comic-Con Icon Award at SCREAM 2008. This rare appearance by one of the most iconic and influential filmmakers of all time brought the stunned crowd to its feet.
Additional honors for excellence were bestowed upon actor Sir Anthony Hopkins and filmmakers Tim Burton and Wes Craven. Sir Anthony Hopkins received the Legend Award for his tremendous contributions to films in the SCREAM genres while Wes Craven collected the SCREAM Mastermind Award for his terrifying and iconic work in the world of horror. Tim Burton received the SCREAM IMMORTAL Award for his remarkably unique interpretation of horror and fantasy.
Box office hit and critically acclaimed film, The Dark Knight dominated the competition collecting twelve awards including the nights' most prestigious award, The Ultimate Scream, accepted by the films' producers, Charles Roven, Emma Thomas and Christopher Nolan. The Dark Knight co-stars Christian Bale, Heath Ledger and Gary Oldman each scored awards, as Bale took home Best Superhero and Oldman Best Supporting Actor, while Ledger was named both Best Fantasy Actor and Best Villain for his portrayal of the Joker. Director Christopher Nolan scored the Best Director trophy and the Best Screamplay, along with Jonathon Nolan and David S. Goyer.
Iron Man and Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street each took home two awards. Iron Man star Robert Downey, Jr. accepted the Best Actor in a Science Fiction Movie or TV Show award from the set of his new film Sherlock Holmes in London with director Guy Ritchie making a surprise cameo appearance.
Spike TV also debuted world premiere and exclusive never-before-seen footage from several highly anticipated theatrical releases including Watchmen, Friday The 13th (read footage description) and Twilight. ShockTillYouDrop.com talked to Friday The 13th star Jared Padalecki ("Supernatural") at the awards, an interview which you can read here. The site also caught up with Jaime King, who talked about the upcoming My Bloody Valentine 3-D.
A full list of winners is included below:
THE ULTIMATE SCREAM
The Dark Knight
BEST FANTASY MOVIE
Hellboy II: The Golden Army
BEST HORROR MOVIE
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street
BEST SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE
Iron Man
BEST TV SHOW
"Dexter"
BEST SUPERHERO
Christian Bale as Batman; The Dark Knight
BEST ACTOR IN A FANTASY MOVIE OR TV SHOW
Heath Ledger; The Dark Knight
BEST ACTRESS IN A FANTASY MOVIE OR TV SHOW
Angelina Jolie; Wanted
BEST ACTOR IN A HORROR MOVIE OR TV SHOW
Johnny Depp; Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street
BEST ACTRESS IN A HORROR MOVIE OR TV SHOW
Liv Tyler; The Strangers
BEST ACTOR IN A SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE OR TV SHOW
Robert Downey Jr.; Iron Man
BEST ACTRESS IN A SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE OR TV SHOW
Milla Jovovich; Resident Evil: Extinction
BEST VILLAIN
Heath Ledger as The Joker; The Dark Knight
BREAKOUT PERFORMANCE
WALL•E; WALL•E
BEST SUPPORTING PERFORMANCE
Gary Oldman; The Dark Knight
THE HOLY S***! SCENE OF THE YEAR
The Big Rig Flips Over; The Dark Knight
MOST MEMORABLE MUTILATION
Bitten By Vagina With Teeth; Teeth
BEST SCREAMPLAY
The Dark Knight; Christopher Nolan, Jonathan Nolan & David S. Goyer
BEST SCREAM TO COMIC ADAPTATION
"Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season Eight"
BEST SEQUEL
The Dark Knight
BEST DIRECTOR
Christopher Nolan; The Dark Knight
BEST REMAKE
Halloween
BEST F/X
The Dark Knight
BEST LINE
"I believe whatever doesn't kill you makes you stranger" (The Joker); The Dark Knight
BEST COMIC BOOK MOVIE
The Dark Knight
BEST COMIC BOOK
"Y: The Last Man"
BEST COMIC BOOK ARTIST
Gabriel Ba; "The Umbrella Academy: Apocalypse Suite"
BEST COMIC BOOK WRITER
Grant Morrison; "Batman," "Final Crisis"
MOST SHOCKING COMIC BOOK PLOT TWIST
The X-Men Disband After Professor X Is Shot In The Head By Bishop; "X-Men"
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Iron Man now has to be treated as a sci-fi movie to win an award? Jeez, why do they even bother?
Clearly the organizers were trying to please competing fanboy camps and totally ditched what little credibility they had in doing so. While IM does have sci-fi elements it is clearly a comic book movie. It's also kind of a stretch to call Wanted a "fantasy" movie, but of course, they had to do that to pay lip service Resident Evil. Why? No-one saw the film and I'm sure the producers greased some palms to get some attention for the imminent home video release.
Either have the balls to treat these films for what they are and hand out the awards accordingly or don't bother at all as that kind of thing is just gutless.
For my money, Downey was the best comic book hero this summer; Bale was good but quite frankly he didn't carry his film the way Downey did IM.
As to best comic book movie, personally I enjoyed Iron Man more. I know Dark Knight is a deeper, denser, more serious film and that comics want to be treated as a serious, legitimate literary and film genre, but at the end of the day, it all comes down to what was more fun and for me its Iron Man.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Iron Man now has to be treated as a sci-fi movie to win an award? Jeez, why do they even bother?
To be fair, Iron Man is not considered sci-fi so I agree with you here.
Clearly the organizers were trying to please competing fanboy camps and totally ditched what little credibility they had in doing so. While IM does have sci-fi elements it is clearly a comic book movie.
It was in the running for comic book movie of the year with TDK, it just didn't win. :v
I mean events like these are hardly the Golden Globe or the Oscars for me no matter how pleased I am with the results.
I'm more ticked that THE INCREDIBLE HULK won nothing. X-(
Either have the balls to treat these films for what they are and hand out the awards accordingly or don't bother at all as that kind of thing is just gutless.
Again, it didn't win. That's all. If it weren't for the awesomeness of TDK, I would've voted for IM believe it or not.
For my money, Downey was the best comic book hero this summer; Bale was good but quite frankly he didn't carry his film the way Downey did IM.
No he didn't. Bale did a better job as it is proven in things of this ilk, box office numbers, fan response, etc.
However, I respect the fact that you loved Downey more. Nothing wrong with that.
but at the end of the day, it all comes down to what was more fun and for me its Iron Man.
That's all that matters.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Sorry for my little meltdown there Rogue. I know that those kinds of shows are little more than popularity contests, but just they're such shallow and vapid affairs. The MTV awards are like that as well. Just not my cup of tea, I guess. I'll blame it on my advancing years.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Sorry for my little meltdown there Rogue. I know that those kinds of shows are little more than popularity contests, but just they're such shallow and vapid affairs. The MTV awards are like that as well. Just not my cup of tea, I guess. I'll blame it on my advancing years.
No worries,man. We all like what we like.
I might've had a "another" similiar meltdown had TDK gotten snubbed like that..
I mean I loved Iron Man but even more now since I purchased the DVD a couple weeks ago - coming up on 15 views so far but TDK was just too good a movie for me.
But to not recognize the Hulk which was fantastic IMO, and give WANTED an award is criminal. Simply criminal. X-(
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
But to not recognize the Hulk which was fantastic IMO, and give WANTED an award is criminal. Simply criminal. X-(
It goes back to what I said: these things are either popularity contests or excuses for studios to grease palms to get their product noticed.
The Incredible Hulk was a damn good movie in its own right, it just wasn't as popular as other summer fare; it didn't generate enough buzz so shows like this swept it to the curb. Angelina Jolie on the other hand could sneeze at a salad bar and people would swoon.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
edited October 2008
Here are a couple more promo shots from the new animated series Batman: Brave & The Bold.
The style does run hot and cold with many fans of the character but I reiterate that I love the psuedo- retro look of it despite the lack of detail. Producer James Tucker loved the old school Bats as a kid and thought that it might be refreshing to bring back this look. I agree...as long as the shows are good.
I cannot put my finger on it but something about Aquaman's look really disturbs me. And why is he so much taller than Bats? )
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
Aquaman is a porn star!!!!
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
There's a video restriction at work so I can't watch the clip but based on the stills, they've given the show a major injection of what the late Guy Williams (of Lost In Space and Zorro fame) disapprovingly used to call "The Cutes".
Can't say it does much for me, and that image of Aquaman as a muscle bound beach bum in orange tights just looks wrong on so many levels.
BTW, speaking of Kevin Conroy, I read that he will be supplying the voice of Batman for the Arkham Asylum videogame that is in development.
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
I heard about the Kevin Conroy thing, Tony, which couldn't make me happier - I preordered the game the first day I heard about it.
As for B & B, I kind of liked the clip. Stupid, but fun, and Bader isn't so bad.
I heard about the Kevin Conroy thing, Tony, which couldn't make me happier - I preordered the game the first day I heard about it.
The quality of Batman videogames have been decidedly mixed (and I'm being kind) so I'm going to wait for some reviews and impressions. These days games are so prevalent that having to preorder isn't really an issue anymore.
As for B & B, I kind of liked the clip. Stupid, but fun, and Bader isn't so bad.
I saw the clip; the animation isn't bad but it's a little too "Saturday morning" if you know what I mean.
BTW, having seen the latest extended trailer for Watchmen, I am more convinced than ever that Zack Snyder should do a Batman movie when Nolan has had his fill.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I heard about the Kevin Conroy thing, Tony, which couldn't make me happier - I preordered the game the first day I heard about it.
The quality of Batman videogames have been decidedly mixed (and I'm being kind) so I'm going to wait for some reviews and impressions. These days games are so prevalent that having to preorder isn't really an issue anymore.
Mixed is right. I loved playing the linear Batman Begins & Vengeance(Conroy) but I hated the monotony of Sh'in Tzu(sp?). That one was awfully kiddy.
As for B & B, I kind of liked the clip. Stupid, but fun, and Bader isn't so bad.
I saw the clip; the animation isn't bad but it's a little too "Saturday morning" if you know what I mean.
Y'know I gritted my teeth while awaiting your response to the clip. Thank you for at least being fair about it. I love Batman's look in this just for the nostalgia of it. He's one of very few characters that you can variate from one end to the other and keep his coolness.
BTW, having seen the latest extended trailer for Watchmen, I am more convinced than ever that Zack Snyder should do a Batman movie when Nolan has had his fill.
I'll take that one further, he should be a candidate for Superman too. His visuals are always mesmerizing; give him a quality script and Supes really does Return.
I'm still throwing my vote Leterrier's way for Superman though. The guy is GOOD. B-)
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Mixed is right. I loved playing the linear Batman Begins & Vengeance(Conroy) but I hated the monotony of Sh'in Tzu(sp?). That one was awfully kiddy.
Batman Begins was fun although it was clearly designed as a Splinter Cell ripoff, right down to the snake cam. Batman Returns for the Super NES and Batman for the Sega Genesis were also gems in their day - lots of fun and a good mix of gameplay from level to level. Sadly though, there have been a lot of stinkers over the years. Still need to pick up Lego Batman at some point.
Y'know I gritted my teeth while awaiting your response to the clip. Thank you for at least being fair about it. I love Batman's look in this just for the nostalgia of it. He's one of very few characters that you can variate from one end to the other and keep his coolness.
) I didn't know my opinion could cause you so much apprehension. I'll have to file that away for future use.
I'll take that one further, he should be a candidate for Superman too. His visuals are always mesmerizing; give him a quality script and Supes really does Return.
I'm still throwing my vote Leterrier's way for Superman though. The guy is GOOD. B-)
Given that Snyder likes to explore the darker side of these characters, I'm not sure he'd be a great fit for Superman. Then again, given that they want to "go dark to the extent that the characters will allow it" maybe he wouldn't be a bad choice. If WB ever did an adaptation of Miller's overrated but still popular Dark Knight Returns, Snyder would probably be perfect.
I agree that Letterier would make for a great choice for Superman; he definitely transcended his "B" movie, Transporter roots with Hulk and showed me he's ready to go to the next level.
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
The Dark Knight Returns isn't overrated - The Killing Joke is.
IMO.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
The Dark Knight Returns isn't overrated - The Killing Joke is.
IMO.
) I was expecting you to stick your head in here after Tony made that Miller comment. )
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Your religous beliefs notwithstanding but there is a God! Thank you, WB for coming to your senses! {[]
The CW & Warner Bros. TV Scrap Graysons
Source:Variety November 7, 2008
The CW and Warner Bros. TV have been forced to scrap their plans for "The Graysons," reports Variety. The show, which had been given a put pilot commitment, was set to revolve around Batman sidekick Robin in his pre-Caped Crusader days.
The trade says the decision to yank the project came from Warner Bros. Pictures Group president Jeff Robinov, who initially gave his blessing but changed his mind in recent days.
The CW had been counting on "The Graysons" to fill the void left by the likely series end of "Smallville." Like "Smallville," "The Graysons" is a superhero origins story. The show was developed to revolve around the world of Dick "DJ" Grayson before taking on the iconic Robin identity.
"The studio has opted not to go forward with the development of 'The Graysons' at this time as the concept doesn't fit the current strategy for the Batman franchise," the studio said in a statement. "Warner Bros. Television is currently working on several replacement options for the CW."
A script had not yet been written for "The Graysons," which was still in early stages of development.
The one-hour "Graysons" was to be set in modern times and focus on young DJ as he faced challenges involving first loves, young rivals and his family -- a famous juggling act -- as he grew up.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Thank God. I wouldn't be surprised if The Graysons (what an awful title) was canned for the same reason that Miller JLA movie was tabled: namely that WB is fearful that it might somehow tarnish the Batman movie franchise. After its near one billion dollar box office, I'm sure Batman is WB's darling again and any project that treads on that subject matter will be scrutinized closely.
BTW, I was reading another interview with Christopher Nolan about the chances of his being involved in a third Batman film (I'll post the link if I can retrace my steps).
No new real info in the interview but what I found interesting was his assertion and belief that within the context of his Batman films, there are no other superheroes and that within that "universe" Batman goes it alone and the presence of other heroes wouldn't make much sense. Frankly, I don't care for that kind of thinking at all. I know Nolan was never comfortable with the whole costumed superhero genre and has gone to great lengths to ground his movies in reality and distance himself from other superhero flicks, but I think its shortsighted and narrowminded of him to be so dismissive about the rest of the DC universe. He might not have the vision to be able to his Batman being a part of a larger universe or the imagination to be able to come up with a workable story that would include Superman or someone else, but that doesn't mean its impossible and I think he has a flawed point of view.
This will sound heretical...you'd better sit down Rogue...but if that's Nolan's opinion then it might be better if he (and Bale if he feels the same way) stepped aside and gave someone else the keys to that franchise.
There, I said it. Let the flaming begin.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
This will sound heretical...you'd better sit down Rogue...but if that's Nolan's opinion then it might be better if he (and Bale if he feels the same way) stepped aside and gave someone else the keys to that franchise.
There, I said it. Let the flaming begin.
Nolan is known famously for being coy; I doubt that he'd let his work go unfinished with this.
Until further notice, there will be a third Batman film...by Nolan. B-)
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
This will sound heretical...you'd better sit down Rogue...but if that's Nolan's opinion then it might be better if he (and Bale if he feels the same way) stepped aside and gave someone else the keys to that franchise.
There, I said it. Let the flaming begin.
Nolan is known famously for being coy; I doubt that he'd let his work go unfinished with this.
Until further notice, there will be a third Batman film...by Nolan. B-)
I never said he wouldn't make a third one, just that I'm not fond some of his opinions.
It'll never happen but my idea for a third Batman film would be to have the mayor of Gotham bring in Superman to deal with the "Batman menace" once and for all, bypassing Jim Gordon who has been secretly aiding Batman in eluding the law. Amid their skirmishes a new threat arises and forces the two heroes to put aside their differences and work together to save the day. The film would end with Superman grudgingly acknowledging that Batman is a force for good and that to preserve law and order in a city like Gotham you have to do things his way.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
This will sound heretical...you'd better sit down Rogue...but if that's Nolan's opinion then it might be better if he (and Bale if he feels the same way) stepped aside and gave someone else the keys to that franchise.
There, I said it. Let the flaming begin.
Nolan is known famously for being coy; I doubt that he'd let his work go unfinished with this.
Until further notice, there will be a third Batman film...by Nolan. B-)
I never said he wouldn't make a third one, just that I'm not fond some of his opinions.
It'll never happen but my idea for a third Batman film would be to have the mayor of Gotham bring in Superman to deal with the "Batman menace" once and for all, bypassing Jim Gordon who has been secretly aiding Batman in eluding the law. Amid their skirmishes a new threat arises and forces the two heroes to put aside their differences and work together to save the day. The film would end with Superman grudgingly acknowledging that Batman is a force for good and that to preserve law and order in a city like Gotham you have to do things his way.
I hate to admit it but...I love that proposal. B-)
Why in hell aren't you trying to write comics? )
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I hate to admit it but...I love that proposal. B-)
Why in hell aren't you trying to write comics? )
Thanks Rogue but you give me too much credit. Coming up with an decent idea every now and then isn't that hard. Fleshing it out into a coherent story is quite another matter.
Comments
To suggest that the movie is a justification of any one political agenda just jumps the shark; that's a pretty slippery slope and in trying to justify his views, Aly makes some contradictory arguments. You could apply any number of interpretations to events and characters in The Dark Knight.
Nolan deserves major kudos for allowing just enough of the real world to seep in so as to make the film feel relevant and accessible to an audience that would have otherwise ignored it. But at the end of the day, it's just a movie and to my way of thinking, its purpose should be to simply entertain.
All this article really proves is how superior the Batman movies are to Spider-Man: I'd like to see Aly try to tack one of his political rationalizations on those. :v
I don't visit this thread often so please excuse the interruption. And no offense meant to you, DS.
Why? Because Spider-Man isn't being hijacked by people with different political agendas? :v You really are grasping at straws.
Well, having met him personally, I do know that he's a big comicbook fan, so perhaps, he might in the future.
BTW, to get us off politics, I've got some bad news for Rogue; it appears there might not be a third film any time soon. :v http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2008/10/insider-david-goyer-says-that-all-of-the-current-d.html
An attempt at humor, Mr. Same? Tony, we gotta loose cannon here..." :v
If you want to find something political in something as fantastical as comic movies, perhaps you should look at my sig. There's your political.
You,the literary elistist, knows that he's a big comic book fan? You?..."We'll look into it..."
Yes, Dan, I saw this article last night and guess what? It means squat. Goyer's not running anything. As a matter of fact, he'd be only too happy if Nolan brought him along for the ride come sequel time and believe me...once sales go out of the roof for the TDK dvd this Christmas, expect an announcement that the third installment will go full steam ahead no later than early spring next year.
Goyer is hit-or-miss at best anyway. Look what he did with BLADE: Trinity.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
My guess is that Nolan will do another film first - something smaller and less ambitious in scope - before going into production on his third Batman film. That was his MO the last time around and I have a feeling he'll do the same thing now.
Let's not forget that Christian Bale is only 34, he has plenty of years left in him to do another film - that's why WB was casting their superheroes young, they were thinking ahead for the sake of the franchise.
Green Lantern looks to be on the fast track to development; and if WB's smart they'll also make a decision on Superman and get that rolling ASAP. With those two characters to keep interest going, they'll then be able to give Nolan some space and breathing room to better entice him to return.
More miss than hit. Didn't he also come up with that atrocious SuperMax concept?
The Dark Knight Dominates the Scream Awards
Source:Spike TV, ShockTillYouDrop.com October 20, 2008
Spike TV's third annual "SCREAM" awards, honoring the best in fantasy, sci-fi, comics and horror, were presented Saturday night at the Greek Theatre in Los Angeles. The show featured appearances by the industry's biggest stars including Kate Beckinsale, Kristen Bell, Rosario Dawson, the cast of "Dexter," Jon Favreau, the cast of Hellboy II: The Golden Army, Samuel L. Jackson, Milla Jovovich, Stan Lee, Gary Oldman, the Osbournes, Seth Rogen, Winona Ryder, Kevin Smith and Liv Tyler, among many others. The two-hour extravaganza also included musical performances by Grammy Award-winning band Smashing Pumpkins and up-and-coming pop sensation Kerli. "SCREAM 2008" will premiere on Spike TV on Tuesday, October 21 (9:00 - 11:00 PM, ET/PT).
George Lucas shocked and thrilled the audience when he walked out on stage flanked by Stormtroopers to accept the Comic-Con Icon Award at SCREAM 2008. This rare appearance by one of the most iconic and influential filmmakers of all time brought the stunned crowd to its feet.
Additional honors for excellence were bestowed upon actor Sir Anthony Hopkins and filmmakers Tim Burton and Wes Craven. Sir Anthony Hopkins received the Legend Award for his tremendous contributions to films in the SCREAM genres while Wes Craven collected the SCREAM Mastermind Award for his terrifying and iconic work in the world of horror. Tim Burton received the SCREAM IMMORTAL Award for his remarkably unique interpretation of horror and fantasy.
Box office hit and critically acclaimed film, The Dark Knight dominated the competition collecting twelve awards including the nights' most prestigious award, The Ultimate Scream, accepted by the films' producers, Charles Roven, Emma Thomas and Christopher Nolan. The Dark Knight co-stars Christian Bale, Heath Ledger and Gary Oldman each scored awards, as Bale took home Best Superhero and Oldman Best Supporting Actor, while Ledger was named both Best Fantasy Actor and Best Villain for his portrayal of the Joker. Director Christopher Nolan scored the Best Director trophy and the Best Screamplay, along with Jonathon Nolan and David S. Goyer.
Iron Man and Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street each took home two awards. Iron Man star Robert Downey, Jr. accepted the Best Actor in a Science Fiction Movie or TV Show award from the set of his new film Sherlock Holmes in London with director Guy Ritchie making a surprise cameo appearance.
Spike TV also debuted world premiere and exclusive never-before-seen footage from several highly anticipated theatrical releases including Watchmen, Friday The 13th (read footage description) and Twilight. ShockTillYouDrop.com talked to Friday The 13th star Jared Padalecki ("Supernatural") at the awards, an interview which you can read here. The site also caught up with Jaime King, who talked about the upcoming My Bloody Valentine 3-D.
A full list of winners is included below:
THE ULTIMATE SCREAM
The Dark Knight
BEST FANTASY MOVIE
Hellboy II: The Golden Army
BEST HORROR MOVIE
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street
BEST SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE
Iron Man
BEST TV SHOW
"Dexter"
BEST SUPERHERO
Christian Bale as Batman; The Dark Knight
BEST ACTOR IN A FANTASY MOVIE OR TV SHOW
Heath Ledger; The Dark Knight
BEST ACTRESS IN A FANTASY MOVIE OR TV SHOW
Angelina Jolie; Wanted
BEST ACTOR IN A HORROR MOVIE OR TV SHOW
Johnny Depp; Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street
BEST ACTRESS IN A HORROR MOVIE OR TV SHOW
Liv Tyler; The Strangers
BEST ACTOR IN A SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE OR TV SHOW
Robert Downey Jr.; Iron Man
BEST ACTRESS IN A SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE OR TV SHOW
Milla Jovovich; Resident Evil: Extinction
BEST VILLAIN
Heath Ledger as The Joker; The Dark Knight
BREAKOUT PERFORMANCE
WALL•E; WALL•E
BEST SUPPORTING PERFORMANCE
Gary Oldman; The Dark Knight
THE HOLY S***! SCENE OF THE YEAR
The Big Rig Flips Over; The Dark Knight
MOST MEMORABLE MUTILATION
Bitten By Vagina With Teeth; Teeth
BEST SCREAMPLAY
The Dark Knight; Christopher Nolan, Jonathan Nolan & David S. Goyer
BEST SCREAM TO COMIC ADAPTATION
"Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season Eight"
BEST SEQUEL
The Dark Knight
BEST DIRECTOR
Christopher Nolan; The Dark Knight
BEST REMAKE
Halloween
BEST F/X
The Dark Knight
BEST LINE
"I believe whatever doesn't kill you makes you stranger" (The Joker); The Dark Knight
BEST COMIC BOOK MOVIE
The Dark Knight
BEST COMIC BOOK
"Y: The Last Man"
BEST COMIC BOOK ARTIST
Gabriel Ba; "The Umbrella Academy: Apocalypse Suite"
BEST COMIC BOOK WRITER
Grant Morrison; "Batman," "Final Crisis"
MOST SHOCKING COMIC BOOK PLOT TWIST
The X-Men Disband After Professor X Is Shot In The Head By Bishop; "X-Men"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Iron Man now has to be treated as a sci-fi movie to win an award?
Clearly the organizers were trying to please competing fanboy camps and totally ditched what little credibility they had in doing so. While IM does have sci-fi elements it is clearly a comic book movie. It's also kind of a stretch to call Wanted a "fantasy" movie, but of course, they had to do that to pay lip service Resident Evil. Why? No-one saw the film and I'm sure the producers greased some palms to get some attention for the imminent home video release.
Either have the balls to treat these films for what they are and hand out the awards accordingly or don't bother at all as that kind of thing is just gutless.
For my money, Downey was the best comic book hero this summer; Bale was good but quite frankly he didn't carry his film the way Downey did IM.
As to best comic book movie, personally I enjoyed Iron Man more. I know Dark Knight is a deeper, denser, more serious film and that comics want to be treated as a serious, legitimate literary and film genre, but at the end of the day, it all comes down to what was more fun and for me its Iron Man.
To be fair, Iron Man is not considered sci-fi so I agree with you here.
It was in the running for comic book movie of the year with TDK, it just didn't win. :v
I mean events like these are hardly the Golden Globe or the Oscars for me no matter how pleased I am with the results.
I'm more ticked that THE INCREDIBLE HULK won nothing. X-(
Again, it didn't win. That's all. If it weren't for the awesomeness of TDK, I would've voted for IM believe it or not.
No he didn't. Bale did a better job as it is proven in things of this ilk, box office numbers, fan response, etc.
However, I respect the fact that you loved Downey more. Nothing wrong with that.
That's all that matters.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
No worries,man. We all like what we like.
I might've had a "another" similiar meltdown had TDK gotten snubbed like that..
I mean I loved Iron Man but even more now since I purchased the DVD a couple weeks ago - coming up on 15 views so far but TDK was just too good a movie for me.
But to not recognize the Hulk which was fantastic IMO, and give WANTED an award is criminal. Simply criminal. X-(
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
It goes back to what I said: these things are either popularity contests or excuses for studios to grease palms to get their product noticed.
The Incredible Hulk was a damn good movie in its own right, it just wasn't as popular as other summer fare; it didn't generate enough buzz so shows like this swept it to the curb. Angelina Jolie on the other hand could sneeze at a salad bar and people would swoon.
The style does run hot and cold with many fans of the character but I reiterate that I love the psuedo- retro look of it despite the lack of detail. Producer James Tucker loved the old school Bats as a kid and thought that it might be refreshing to bring back this look. I agree...as long as the shows are good.
I cannot put my finger on it but something about Aquaman's look really disturbs me. And why is he so much taller than Bats?
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Yeah...something like that.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Diedrich Bader sounds okay as Bats but my mind is so conditioned to Conroy's that it'll take time for me.
It's certainly trying to draw in the kid audience because it's quite colorful. I'll still tune in because it's Batman ;% .
http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/video/dlink/index.html?section=shows&showID=8a25c3921cfa9faf011cfc1c1dc90004
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
There's a video restriction at work so I can't watch the clip but based on the stills, they've given the show a major injection of what the late Guy Williams (of Lost In Space and Zorro fame) disapprovingly used to call "The Cutes".
Can't say it does much for me, and that image of Aquaman as a muscle bound beach bum in orange tights just looks wrong on so many levels.
BTW, speaking of Kevin Conroy, I read that he will be supplying the voice of Batman for the Arkham Asylum videogame that is in development.
As for B & B, I kind of liked the clip. Stupid, but fun, and Bader isn't so bad.
The quality of Batman videogames have been decidedly mixed (and I'm being kind) so I'm going to wait for some reviews and impressions. These days games are so prevalent that having to preorder isn't really an issue anymore.
I saw the clip; the animation isn't bad but it's a little too "Saturday morning" if you know what I mean.
BTW, having seen the latest extended trailer for Watchmen, I am more convinced than ever that Zack Snyder should do a Batman movie when Nolan has had his fill.
Mixed is right. I loved playing the linear Batman Begins & Vengeance(Conroy) but I hated the monotony of Sh'in Tzu(sp?). That one was awfully kiddy.
Y'know I gritted my teeth while awaiting your response to the clip. Thank you for at least being fair about it. I love Batman's look in this just for the nostalgia of it. He's one of very few characters that you can variate from one end to the other and keep his coolness.
I'll take that one further, he should be a candidate for Superman too. His visuals are always mesmerizing; give him a quality script and Supes really does Return.
I'm still throwing my vote Leterrier's way for Superman though. The guy is GOOD. B-)
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Batman Begins was fun although it was clearly designed as a Splinter Cell ripoff, right down to the snake cam. Batman Returns for the Super NES and Batman for the Sega Genesis were also gems in their day - lots of fun and a good mix of gameplay from level to level. Sadly though, there have been a lot of stinkers over the years. Still need to pick up Lego Batman at some point.
Given that Snyder likes to explore the darker side of these characters, I'm not sure he'd be a great fit for Superman. Then again, given that they want to "go dark to the extent that the characters will allow it" maybe he wouldn't be a bad choice. If WB ever did an adaptation of Miller's overrated but still popular Dark Knight Returns, Snyder would probably be perfect.
I agree that Letterier would make for a great choice for Superman; he definitely transcended his "B" movie, Transporter roots with Hulk and showed me he's ready to go to the next level.
IMO.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
The CW & Warner Bros. TV Scrap Graysons
Source:Variety November 7, 2008
The CW and Warner Bros. TV have been forced to scrap their plans for "The Graysons," reports Variety. The show, which had been given a put pilot commitment, was set to revolve around Batman sidekick Robin in his pre-Caped Crusader days.
The trade says the decision to yank the project came from Warner Bros. Pictures Group president Jeff Robinov, who initially gave his blessing but changed his mind in recent days.
The CW had been counting on "The Graysons" to fill the void left by the likely series end of "Smallville." Like "Smallville," "The Graysons" is a superhero origins story. The show was developed to revolve around the world of Dick "DJ" Grayson before taking on the iconic Robin identity.
"The studio has opted not to go forward with the development of 'The Graysons' at this time as the concept doesn't fit the current strategy for the Batman franchise," the studio said in a statement. "Warner Bros. Television is currently working on several replacement options for the CW."
A script had not yet been written for "The Graysons," which was still in early stages of development.
The one-hour "Graysons" was to be set in modern times and focus on young DJ as he faced challenges involving first loves, young rivals and his family -- a famous juggling act -- as he grew up.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
BTW, I was reading another interview with Christopher Nolan about the chances of his being involved in a third Batman film (I'll post the link if I can retrace my steps).
No new real info in the interview but what I found interesting was his assertion and belief that within the context of his Batman films, there are no other superheroes and that within that "universe" Batman goes it alone and the presence of other heroes wouldn't make much sense. Frankly, I don't care for that kind of thinking at all. I know Nolan was never comfortable with the whole costumed superhero genre and has gone to great lengths to ground his movies in reality and distance himself from other superhero flicks, but I think its shortsighted and narrowminded of him to be so dismissive about the rest of the DC universe. He might not have the vision to be able to his Batman being a part of a larger universe or the imagination to be able to come up with a workable story that would include Superman or someone else, but that doesn't mean its impossible and I think he has a flawed point of view.
This will sound heretical...you'd better sit down Rogue...but if that's Nolan's opinion then it might be better if he (and Bale if he feels the same way) stepped aside and gave someone else the keys to that franchise.
There, I said it. Let the flaming begin.
Nolan is known famously for being coy; I doubt that he'd let his work go unfinished with this.
Until further notice, there will be a third Batman film...by Nolan. B-)
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I never said he wouldn't make a third one, just that I'm not fond some of his opinions.
It'll never happen but my idea for a third Batman film would be to have the mayor of Gotham bring in Superman to deal with the "Batman menace" once and for all, bypassing Jim Gordon who has been secretly aiding Batman in eluding the law. Amid their skirmishes a new threat arises and forces the two heroes to put aside their differences and work together to save the day. The film would end with Superman grudgingly acknowledging that Batman is a force for good and that to preserve law and order in a city like Gotham you have to do things his way.
I hate to admit it but...I love that proposal. B-)
Why in hell aren't you trying to write comics?
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Thanks Rogue but you give me too much credit. Coming up with an decent idea every now and then isn't that hard. Fleshing it out into a coherent story is quite another matter.