Daftest decision by the film makers?

Nicko1234Nicko1234 Posts: 74MI6 Agent
I guess there are quite a few contenders.

Although I love OHMSS, the decision to hire an actor to play Bond who then had to be dubbed by Inspector Wexford will always be a bizarre one.

Having a pigeon do a double-take in MR was equally ridiculous.

The worst in my opinion though is the California Girls moment in AVTAK. Now this would have been bad enough anyway but why didn't they use the original Beach Boys song or ask them to rerecord it? Let's face it, they would have killed their first born for a few dollars and using the cheap cover makes that section of the film seem even worse than it needed to.

I do find it quite comforting in a bizarre way though that a franchise with so many powerful decision makers could make such insane choices.
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Comments

  • actonsteveactonsteve Posts: 299MI6 Agent
    The daftest decision EVER by the filmakers was allowing Lee Tamahori anywhere near Die Another Day...

    Plus most of the Brosnan castings - Jonathan Pryce, Halle Berry, Robert Carlyle, Toby Stephens, Denise Richards bought nothing to the roles except "Star names" and were godawful in their respective roles...
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 22,334MI6 Agent
    In perfect 20/20 hindsight the hireing of Tamahori looks foolish. But Have you seen his film "Once we were warriors"? It is a very good film, proving LT is a talented man. The low quality of DAD comes from the script, producers and yes - the director. But they new he was talented, Actonsteve.
  • Nicko1234Nicko1234 Posts: 74MI6 Agent
    I have to say that I've yet to watch DAD all the way through. I don't really like any of the Brosnan Bonds (even though Goldeneye is probably a good film) and this seemed to be the worst of the bunch by some way.
  • actonsteveactonsteve Posts: 299MI6 Agent
    Number24 wrote:
    In perfect 20/20 hindsight the hireing of Tamahori looks foolish. But Have you seen his film "Once we were warriors"? It is a very good film, proving LT is a talented man. The low quality of DAD comes from the script, producers and yes - the director. But they new he was talented, Actonsteve.

    Yes, I have seen 'Once were Warriors' and its a good film with credible acting, script and direction. But not the masterpiece Tamahoris defenders seem to think it is. Also most of his work seems to be brainless crash bang wallop actioners. One piece of crasp after another.

    So what went wrong with DAD?

    Ten reasons why Tamahori buggered up DAD

    10 - narrative - why did Graves kill his own father? What was the reason behind it?
    9. - Editing. The cuts were so fast during pieces that you couldnt follow the story.But the story was crap anyway.
    8 - acting. Only the Cuban contact comes away with any credibilty here - Brosnan, Berry, Stephens, Yune etc do very bad. Berry actually lowers Brosnans performance when she shares a scene with him
    7. - unimagination. Laser satellites, gadget cars, ice palaces - been there done that.
    6. The Invisible car
    5. The clunky one liners - "Yo Momma" was the worse line in forty years of Bond
    4. The Mad Donna cameo - FFS
    3 The cgi. "Its the future" says Tamahori "get used to it". Luckily it sucked so badly they ditched it in CR
    2. The continuous continuity references. How the F did they get Rosa Klebbs shoe?
    1. The feel that this wasnt a Bond film but an actioner like any other Hollywood film. Putting Bond music in does not a Bond film make.

    You think I am being too hard? And you are right it does get approval from Babs and Mickey (who should take some of hte blame). But the director wants to make his mark. He was the one who convinced them to ditch the 'stunts for real' in favour of cgi. Vic Armstrong argued against the surf scene but it still went ahead. Tamahori overuled him.

    The directors set the flavour of the film whether it be Guy Hamilton or Lewis Gilbert with his ninja battles inside hollowed out volcanoes. The blame for DAD must lie mainly with Tamahori. And 'Once were Warriors' doesnt wash as one good film doesnt this one make.

    Thank god the producers got rid and came to their senses in Casino Royale.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    actionsteve, I completely agree with you, except for one thing:
    actonsteve wrote:
    8 - acting. Only the Cuban contact comes away with any credibilty here - Brosnan, Berry, Stephens, Yune etc do very bad. Berry actually lowers Brosnans performance when she shares a scene with him
    I thought Brosnan was terrifiic. In fact, considering the screenplay and some of the lines he had to say, I thought Brosnan did particularly well.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • actonsteveactonsteve Posts: 299MI6 Agent
    edited June 2007
    Dan Same wrote:
    actionsteve, I completely agree with you, except for one thing:
    actonsteve wrote:
    8 - acting. Only the Cuban contact comes away with any credibilty here - Brosnan, Berry, Stephens, Yune etc do very bad. Berry actually lowers Brosnans performance when she shares a scene with him
    I thought Brosnan was terrifiic. In fact, considering the screenplay and some of the lines he had to say, I thought Brosnan did particularly well.

    Brosnan doesnt seem to be trying as hard in this one as he did in previous films. I'm no great fan of his Bond but he has great charisma so I'll let you have that.

    But Yune, Stephens, Berry and even Pike are directed lazily by Tamahori. Judi Dench, usually as sharp as a tack, is sleepwalking throughout her underground platform scene.
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,241MI6 Agent
    actonsteve wrote:
    Dan Same wrote:
    actionsteve, I completely agree with you, except for one thing:
    actonsteve wrote:
    8 - acting. Only the Cuban contact comes away with any credibilty here - Brosnan, Berry, Stephens, Yune etc do very bad. Berry actually lowers Brosnans performance when she shares a scene with him
    I thought Brosnan was terrifiic. In fact, considering the screenplay and some of the lines he had to say, I thought Brosnan did particularly well.

    Watch the introductio scene in Cuba with Jinx. Both give a lacklustre performance. Of course, the main offender is the dud script but Brosnan doesnt seem to be trying as hard in this scene as he did in previous films.

    I agree that Brosnan's acting in DAD was not as good as the three previous films. He probably felt demotivated and gave up hope because he probably knew that it would be a crap film, lol
    1 - LALD, 2 - AVTAK, 3 - LTK, 4 - OP, 5 - NTTD, 6 - FYEO, 7 - SF, 8 - DN, 9 - DAF, 10 - TSWLM, 11 - OHMSS, 12 - TMWTGG, 13 - GE, 14 - MR, 15 - TLD, 16 - YOLT, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - SP, 21 - TND, 22 - FRWL, 23 - TB, 24 - CR, 25 - QOS

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited June 2007
    actonsteve wrote:
    Brosnan doesnt seem to be trying as hard in this one as he did in previous films. I'm no great fan of his Bond but he has great charisma so I'll let you have that.

    But Yune, Stephens, Berry and even Pike are directed lazily by Tamahori. Judi Dench, usually as sharp as a tack, is sleepwalking.
    I actually consider Brosnan's performance in DAD to be his third best performance (behind TWINE and GE), but I will say that one of my biggest disappointments with DAD was Halle Berry. I adore Halle and I consider her to be a fantasttic actress. However she was horrible in DAD, and completely unattractive IMO. :#
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • SteedSteed Posts: 134MI6 Agent
    Have to agree totally about the 'double take pigeon' and the 'California Girls' decisions- mortifyingly embarassing, toecurling moments that simply had no place in these films, imho.

    I think bringing back Jaws to 'Moonraker' was diabolical too- I thought he was great and at times, genuinely threatening (if cartoonish) in TSWLM but he was brought back in 'Moonraker' for comedy relief and feats of ludicrousness.

    'The Man With The Golden Gun' had a potentially fascinating concept but had shocking execution. Sheriff Pepper should not have returned, Mary Goodnight should have been written out entirely and the tone should have been far, far more serious than it was, imho.

    'Die Another Day' has a catalogue of disasters- Toby Stephens' performance is more akin to a spoilt brat, without a shred of the dignity or wit that the best Bond villains have (imho), and Halle Berry's performance was smug (perhaps it was the role itself rather than her, though), the script was laden with overtly crass dialogue (Miranda Frost talking about how she 'did' Bond was a real cringeworthy moment for me; how did they plumb so low? The dialogue with Madonna is laughably over-the-top too).
  • taitytaity Posts: 702MI6 Agent
    [quote=Dan Same I actually consider Brosnan's performance in DAD to be his third best performance (behind TWINE and GE), but I will say that one of my biggest disappointments with DAD was Halle Berry. I adore Halle and I consider her to be a fantasttic actress. However she was horrible in DAD, and completely unattractive IMO. :#[/quote]

    Yeah - by third best understand you also said second worse.

    I know Im in the minority, but I like what LT did with the first half of DAD, I thought it was very well pieced together.

    I personally think that DAD's flaws could have been solved with a script polish (none of that crap bird dialogue) Additionally, the end is too action heavy. From about the introduction of the laser fight to two seconds later the rocket car chase to two seconds later the car chase. Then a small breather and bang - the Antanov. The first half of the movie is relatively sparse when it comes to action, to overcrowd the end half makes it feel unbalanced.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited June 2007
    taity wrote:
    Yeah - by third best understand you also said second worse.
    No, I said third best. I used the word 'best' specifically as I think it was genuinely a very good performance.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • taitytaity Posts: 702MI6 Agent
    I actually meant that with the limited number of movies he did compared with the number of good movies he did its really tit for tat which ones are good. Its not like comparing Sean Connery in FRWL or his sleep walking YOLT.

    I like Brosnan and Moore - I think that both those actors gave very solid performances across all of their movies. As a matter of fact, I think Dalton did too, just did too few to appreciate it.
  • Golrush007Golrush007 South AfricaPosts: 3,421Quartermasters
    One of the daftest decisions IMO was to add the ridiculous slide whistle sound effect over the car barrel roll in TMWTGG. It basically ruined a fantastic stunt. And although each Bond film has its own howlers, this is the worst of all in my opinion. Runnerr up is the California Girls bit in AVTAK.
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    I've actually heard that Yune wanted the far smaller part of Colonel Moon than of Zao, which doesn't really give the film any credibility at all.
  • actonsteveactonsteve Posts: 299MI6 Agent
    [quote=taity
    I know Im in the minority, but I like what LT did with the first half of DAD, I thought it was very well pieced together.

    .[/quote]

    Lets lay the myth that the first half hour of DAD is OK. Its not, its dreck. Its the worse kind of dreck. Dreck at the bottom of the barrel.

    You want evidence? Well, the Jinx/Bond intro scene is sufficient. I've never seen such godawful lines delivered so clumsily by actors. Not even the Carry On team could do anything with the crap they have to spout.

    And, lo, I hear you cry. Thats the scriptwriters fault not the director. He got approval over the final script and he should have directed the actors with more oomph. Brosnan looks positively bored in that scene.

    Other howlers in the first half hour include.

    - the bullet coming out of the screen
    - Mad Donnas wailings, like a cat with its balls in a mousetrap
    - The stopping the heart crap
    - and if 007 has spent whatever time in a korean torture chamber how comes he's still got a belly when he walks into the HK hotel lobby..

    Lets lay this myth about the first half hour of DAD - its just less painful then the other 1 1/2 hours....
  • LazenbyLazenby The upper reaches of the AmazoPosts: 606MI6 Agent
    Whatever lead to DAD having:

    1) Perhaps the worst Bond performance in any Bond film (Brosnan was even more out of it than Connery appeared on YOLT and, given that he lacks Connery's inherent magnetism, that he appears way too old, and that the rest of the movie has a lot less going for it than YOLT did, this isn't good).

    2) The lamest villain and girl in any Bond movie.

    3) Over the top CGI.

    4) The invisible car, and on and on.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    taity wrote:
    I actually meant that with the limited number of movies he did compared with the number of good movies he did its really tit for tat which ones are good. Its not like comparing Sean Connery in FRWL or his sleep walking YOLT.
    Brosnan made four films, which I think is a fair number. ;) I used the word 'best' as (unlike IMO Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Craig) I don't think Brosnan ever produced a performance that was less than terrific.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited June 2007
    actonsteve wrote:
    Lets lay the myth that the first half hour of DAD is OK. Its not, its dreck. Its the worse kind of dreck. Dreck at the bottom of the barrel.
    {[] Finally someone who see the light. :D Yes, the first half hour was indeed horrible. The only thing worst IMO was the rest of DAD (and all of TLD and AVTAK.) :#
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,861Chief of Staff
    I liked DAD just fine (Madonna aside), up until Iceland- it's all downhill from there. Brosnan and Dench were the best in the cast, although both have done better elsewhere in the Bond series.
  • taitytaity Posts: 702MI6 Agent
    I find it amusing that DAD's first half does have its supporters. I find it much better paced than the aimless TWINE.

    Of course, I dislike the Brosnan era movies. And its funny, but there isnt such strong support for them since Craig arived on the scene.
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    actonsteve wrote:
    Lets lay the myth that the first half hour of DAD is OK. Its not, its dreck. Its the worse kind of dreck. Dreck at the bottom of the barrel.
    {[] Finally someone who see the light. :D Yes, the first half hour was indeed horrible. The only thing worst IMO was the rest of DAD (and all of TLD and AVTAK.) :#

    Oh Dan, when will you see the light about AVTAK? I still don't see why you bash it why you have such affection for that one moment. ;)

    Still, the daftest decision by the filmmakers was definitely the newest CR. I hate the reboot, but at least if they did it, could they make it slightly less confusing?

    And whoever let Michael Kamen score LTK wasn't very smart. Definitely the worst Bond score ever, lacking any individuality, which probably didn't help that movie.

    Oh that movie... that was a daft decision as well on the whole, the only high point being Pam Bouvier, she started the trend of the FIERCLY independent Bond girl that continued into the 90s. Still, the one who perfected that role wasn't her but Natalya, but of all the Bond girls, Bouvier is in my top 10.
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,241MI6 Agent
    DAD PTS is actually good. Rest of it isn't.

    I must mention, I dislike the MR PTS. I mean, Jaws falls from a bloody plane, lands on a circus, yet lives? Also, Bond is falling with no parachute and not even seeming a tad scared? I know he's Bond and all, but falling from a plane with no parachute should really make someone scared.
    1 - LALD, 2 - AVTAK, 3 - LTK, 4 - OP, 5 - NTTD, 6 - FYEO, 7 - SF, 8 - DN, 9 - DAF, 10 - TSWLM, 11 - OHMSS, 12 - TMWTGG, 13 - GE, 14 - MR, 15 - TLD, 16 - YOLT, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - SP, 21 - TND, 22 - FRWL, 23 - TB, 24 - CR, 25 - QOS

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,241MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    The only thing worst IMO was the rest of DAD (and all of TLD and AVTAK.) :#

    I know that there's each to their own and all that, but how can anyone possibly think TLD and AVTAK are worse than DAD?
    1 - LALD, 2 - AVTAK, 3 - LTK, 4 - OP, 5 - NTTD, 6 - FYEO, 7 - SF, 8 - DN, 9 - DAF, 10 - TSWLM, 11 - OHMSS, 12 - TMWTGG, 13 - GE, 14 - MR, 15 - TLD, 16 - YOLT, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - SP, 21 - TND, 22 - FRWL, 23 - TB, 24 - CR, 25 - QOS

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    I forgot to say the casting of Timothy Dalton. It slipped my mind for some odd reason!
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    Surely the daftest decision involves Roger Moore baking a quiche in AVTAK. At least they didn't have him following it up with a creme brulee for dessert. :D
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited June 2007
    Dan Same wrote:
    {[] Finally someone who see the light. :D Yes, the first half hour was indeed horrible. The only thing worst IMO was the rest of DAD (and all of TLD and AVTAK.) :#
    Oh Dan, when will you see the light about AVTAK? I still don't see why you bash it why you have such affection for that one moment. ;)
    You're right, considering that I love that moemnt, I probably should stop bashing AVTAK. The problem is that it's the only moment I like in AVTAK. :p :D
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited June 2007
    Jarvio wrote:
    Dan Same wrote:
    The only thing worst IMO was the rest of DAD (and all of TLD and AVTAK.) :#
    I know that there's each to their own and all that, but how can anyone possibly think TLD and AVTAK are worse than DAD?
    Easily. I think that AVTAK is a horrible rip-off of GF, while TLD features my least favourite Bond and is enormously boring.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • wollastonbluewollastonblue Posts: 22MI6 Agent
    IMO Putting Dame Judi Dench as M in CR is the daftest decision. As they said they wanted to be true to the book. Should have been a male at the very least.

    Others include:

    TMWTGG: Stupid Sound Effect with the car jumping over the broken bridge. They should have just carried on with the music.

    All Roger Moores films, for not ordering a Vodka Martini.

    Some of the stupid brandings involved with the films. As per the books and some of the films, Bonds favourite Champagne is Dom Perignon, not Bollinger as per the later RM, TD, PB, and CR Films.

    Lets face there as so many.
  • Sir_Miles_MesservySir_Miles_Messervy MI6 CLASSIFIEDPosts: 113MI6 Agent
    Mine has to do with something the film makers didn't do: Follow up on the Tracy storyline after OHMSS. Sure, Bond seems ticked off in the PTS of DAF, but it ends there. I wish he would've gone out and gotten revent.
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    Jarvio wrote:
    Dan Same wrote:
    The only thing worst IMO was the rest of DAD (and all of TLD and AVTAK.) :#
    I know that there's each to their own and all that, but how can anyone possibly think TLD and AVTAK are worse than DAD?
    Easily. I think that AVTAK is a horrible rip-off of GF, while TLD features my least favourite Bond and is enormously boring.

    While AVTAK borrows elements from GF, the more blatant ripoff is TWINE. Both Goldfinger and Elektra are in charge of corporations that go about cornering their markets by the use of nuclear weapons. AVTAK came up with a new way to corner the market, and that was creating an earthquake beneath the San Andreas fault.

    And Moore baking the quiche? Well, James Bond can do everything you know. ;)
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