Pussy Galore - Bisexual?

Colonel ShatnerColonel Shatner Chavtastic Bristol, BritainPosts: 574MI6 Agent
edited November 2007 in General James Bond Chat
I hear many comments that the voluptuous Pussy Galore was supposedly a lesbian, with her lesbianism allegedly more than hinted at in the original Goldfinger novel and also supposedly being a true lesbian in the movie (according to some posters here).

But today with none of the ignorance about sexual orientation you got in the 1950s and 1960s, I would say Pussy Galore is really a bisexual by today's sensibilities if she can swing both ways by playing games of licking the carpet with her pretty co-pilots and rolling about in the hay with James Bond. ;)

A true lesbian being "turned" by the dashing Bond sounds like idiotic macho bull**** and is akin to magically turning a naturally left-handed writer into a right-handed writer (ie a homosexual could have "normal" straight sex if forced, but it wouldn't feel natural or comfortable to him/her). So I'd say she was more of a bisexual than a lesbian.

And various other Bond girls and women over the years could've well been bisexual or lesbian as well and they were often of the soldier/henchwoman type - Rosa Klebb, Wai Lin, Jenny Flex, Pan Ho, May Day, Bambi, Thumper, Irma Bunt, Jinx, Xenia Onatopp, Octopussy guardswomen, Pam Bouvier, and the Cigar Woman.
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
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Comments

  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    Colonel Shatner wrote:
    I hear many comments that the voluptuous Pussy Galore was supposedly a lesbian, with her lesbianism allegedly more than hinted at in the original Goldfinger novel and also supposedly being a true lesbian in the movie (according to some posters here).
    I'm one of the few posters here who thinks that the cinematic Pussy was indeed a lesbian. For some reason, it appears to be a minority view.
    Colonel Shatner wrote:
    But today with none of the ignorance about sexual orientation you got in the 1950s and 1960s, I would say Pussy Galore is really a bisexual by today's sensibilities if she can swing both ways by playing games of licking the carpet with her pretty co-pilots and rolling about in the hay with James Bond. ;)
    Perhaps you're right. Certainly bisexuality was not a concept that was really around in the 50's and 60's, however I doubt that Pussy was bisexual. When she met Bond for the first time, Pussy told him she was 'immune to his charm.' That is one of the reasons why I think she was a lesbian.
    Colonel Shatner wrote:
    A true lesbian being "turned" by the dashing Bond sounds like idiotic macho bull**** and is akin to magically turning a naturally left-handed writer into a right-handed writer (ie a homosexual could have "normal" straight sex if forced, but it wouldn't feel natural or comfortable to him/her).
    It is certainly nonsence, but I think that it plays into a kind of macho fantasy that the earlier Bond films relied upon. It's not PC and it's not pretty by today's standards but in a perverse way, it added to the brilliance of the early Bond films and helped make them what they are. That is, the extraordinary ladies man James Bond changes a woman's sexual orienation and her allegiances simply by sleeping with her. :D
    Colonel Shatner wrote:
    And various other Bond girls and women over the years could've well been bisexual or lesbian as well and they were often of the soldier/henchwoman type - Rosa Klebb, Wai Lin, Jenny Flex, Pan Ho, May Day, Bambi, Thumper, Irma Bunt, Jinx, Xenia Onatopp, Octopussy guardswomen, Pam Bouvier, and the Cigar Woman.
    What makes you think that either Pam Bouvier, Wai Lin or Jinx were gay or bisexual? There wasn't any implication that any of these women were gay or bisexual.

    Additonally, considering the amount of screentime she had, and what she did, how can you make determinations of the Cigar Woman's sexuality? :)) That's not to forget May Day. It's been a while since I've seen AVTAK, but I don't remember there being any implication that she was gay or bisexual.

    I suspect that, for many of these girls, you're basing it on their toughness, which is a mistake, as I can assure you that not all tough women are gay. ;) (For that matter not all gay women are tough.)
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,861Chief of Staff
    edited November 2007
    Ian Fleming:
    "Bond liked the look of her. He felt the sexual challenge all beautiful Lesbians have for men."

    "Bond looked down into the deep blue-violet eyes that were no longer hard, imperious. He bent and kissed them lightly. He said, 'They told me you only liked women.'
    She said, 'I never met a man before.'"

    Guy Hamilton:
    "We had to glide over it. And you had to be very wary of the censor."

    Richard Maibaum:
    "I've kept the Lesbian angle, but played it as 'man-hating', a perfectly acceptable, recognizable proclivity."
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,948MI6 Agent
    Colonel Shatner wrote:
    A true lesbian being "turned" by the dashing Bond sounds like idiotic macho bull****

    Yup; that's Fleming's Bond! :D
    The intention was that she was a lesbian, but if your interpretation is that she's a bisexual (which of course makes more sense as she obviously fancies Bond!) then that's fine.
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,467MI6 Agent
    The point at which a lesbian is on the turn and turns bi is a mystery to me generally...

    Digressing, but it's accepted that pop singer George Michael is gay as he is in a gay relationship, right? Yet he's slept with loads of women in the past, too. In fact, he's probably slept with more women than most blokes! :o :))

    Now; turn it around the other way. Supposing a hetero guy was found out to have had sex with a bloke, with photograhpic (or just graphic ;) ) evidence. What are the chances he could maintain that he is really hetero? :D It would be, nah, mate, don't kid yourself, you're gay... :p
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • Honey RiderHoney Rider Posts: 211MI6 Agent
    edited November 2007
    Napoleon Plural wrote:
    The point at which a lesbian is on the turn and turns bi is a mystery to me generally...
    I suggest that you PM me. ;)
    Napoleon Plural wrote:
    Digressing, but it's accepted that pop singer George Michael is gay as he is in a gay relationship, right? Yet he's slept with loads of women in the past, too. In fact, he's probably slept with more women than most blokes! :o :))

    Now; turn it around the other way. Supposing a hetero guy was found out to have had sex with a bloke, with photograhpic (or just graphic ;) ) evidence. What are the chances he could maintain that he is really hetero? :D It would be, nah, mate, don't kid yourself, you're gay... :p
    This is why labels are so simplistic. I have a male friend who dresses as a woman and considers himself to be a lesbian and who has a relationship with a woman who dresses as a man. :))
  • SurrieSurrie Surrey, UKPosts: 79MI6 Agent
    I think Fleming created Pussy Galore as lesbian just to excentuate the "machoness" of Bond, point being he was able to "change" her mind.

    But obviously it was more difficult for MGM in this era to put this across. So they only hinted at the fact that Pussy was a lesbian.
    What counts is what the heroine provokes, or rather what she represents. She is the one, or rather the love or fear she inspires in the hero , or else the concern he feels for her, who makes him act the way he does.

    Author of 'Pussy Galore - A Representation of Women in James Bond Films'.
    Active tweeter and tumbler - https://twitter.com/surrie_fullard
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,467MI6 Agent
    Hey Surrie, what's your hairstyle?
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    Colonel Shatner wrote:
    And various other Bond girls and women over the years could've well been bisexual or lesbian as well and they were often of the soldier/henchwoman type - Jenny Flex, Pan Ho,

    Jenny? Pan Ho? Sounds like a promising deleted scene... ;) And I have to agree with Dan, nothing about Mayday gave off a bisexual vibe, it's just Grace Jones is... well Grace Jones so it might just be an assumption about the character because of the actress.
  • taitytaity Posts: 702MI6 Agent
    I think it was very wise not to show Pussy as being a lesbien. Theres nothing to say she isnt sexually interested in men - she sleeps with Bond! But it is wise that they didnt pick sides about it.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited November 2007
    taity wrote:
    I think it was very wise not to show Pussy as being a lesbien. Theres nothing to say she isnt sexually interested in men - she sleeps with Bond!
    Exactly. :D She was a lesbian who had her sexuality and allegiances changed after she slept with Bond. :))
    taity wrote:
    But it is wise that they didnt pick sides about it.
    Indeed. It's better that it's ambiguous, although it does make it frustrating for people like me who seems sometimes to be the only person who considers Pussy to have been a lesbian. :#
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,948MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    It's better that it's ambiguous, although it does make it frustrating for people like me who seems sometimes to be the only person who considers Pussy to have been a lesbian. :#

    I didn't know that anyone didn't think she's a lesbian. Or at least a 1960's British movie version of one. She's certainly one in the book, so it's not exactly hard to join the dots! All women flying circus, doesn't fancy Sean Connery (well, at first anyway!), 'your charms won't work on me', 'Pussy Galore'! :D
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    emtiem wrote:
    I didn't know that anyone didn't think she's a lesbian. Or at least a 1960's British movie version of one. She's certainly one in the book, so it's not exactly hard to join the dots! All women flying circus, doesn't fancy Sean Connery (well, at first anyway!), 'your charms won't work on me', 'Pussy Galore'! :D
    Oh, there's been at least three threads (one off which revolved around the sexuality of Madonna's fencing instructor in DAD) in which Pussy's being a lesbian was either denied or ignored. Shocking but true. ;)
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,948MI6 Agent
    Really? How odd.

    Seems pretty clear cut to me :)
  • Sir Hillary BraySir Hillary Bray College of ArmsPosts: 2,174MI6 Agent
    I think we should let the undisputed queen of after-the-fact sexuality assessments decide what Pussy Galore was or wasn't in the film.

    Paging J.K. Rowling...
    :D
    Hilly...you old devil!
  • taitytaity Posts: 702MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    Exactly. :D She was a lesbian who had her sexuality and allegiances changed after she slept with Bond. :))

    I don't think that people change their preferences like a light switch. Once someone realises that they're gay they dont have sexual attraction to the opposite sex.

    Unless of course Pussy was bi, to which case the line about being immune to Bond's charm doesnt work at all.

    Personally I never took Pussy to be a lesbien in the film. I'll aggree she was immune to Bonds charm, but nothing said she was a lesbien, it was only ever the viewer's interpretation.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,948MI6 Agent
    taity wrote:
    Dan Same wrote:
    Exactly. :D She was a lesbian who had her sexuality and allegiances changed after she slept with Bond. :))

    I don't think that people change their preferences like a light switch. Once someone realises that they're gay they dont have sexual attraction to the opposite sex.

    They don't, no; but you also don't get bald men in hollowed out volcanoes trying to take over the world :)
    taity wrote:
    Personally I never took Pussy to be a lesbien in the film. I'll aggree she was immune to Bonds charm, but nothing said she was a lesbien, it was only ever the viewer's interpretation.

    It's completely up to the viewer to decide- you're right. I think the producers intended her to be a lesbian, but it wasn't explicitly stated and it ceases to be their choice once they've given it to the audience. If you've decided she wasn't, then there's no reason to say that you're wrong.
  • Barry NelsonBarry Nelson ChicagoPosts: 1,508MI6 Agent
    Colonel Shatner wrote:
    And various other Bond girls and women over the years could've well been bisexual or lesbian as well and they were often of the soldier/henchwoman type - Rosa Klebb, Wai Lin, Jenny Flex, Pan Ho, May Day, Bambi, Thumper, Irma Bunt, Jinx, Xenia Onatopp, Octopussy guardswomen, Pam Bouvier, and the Cigar Woman.

    The list you put togethr is pretty complete, but I have to say I saw nothing in the Pam Bouvier character that made me think lesbian. I would also contest, Jinx, Xenia Onatoppp and the cigar woman.

    Rosa Klebb is a no doubter, if I remember right in the novel, Klebb has Romanova remove her shirt while quizzing her about her fitness for the assignment.
  • taitytaity Posts: 702MI6 Agent
    She also gives Tania chocolates and champagne.
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,467MI6 Agent
    Napoleon Plural wrote:
    Hey Surrie, what's your hairstyle?

    BTW that was going to lead to an Oklahoma! joke, but never mind... :D ;%
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • SurrieSurrie Surrey, UKPosts: 79MI6 Agent
    Sorry I havnt replied for sometime... what joke might thats be then??
    What counts is what the heroine provokes, or rather what she represents. She is the one, or rather the love or fear she inspires in the hero , or else the concern he feels for her, who makes him act the way he does.

    Author of 'Pussy Galore - A Representation of Women in James Bond Films'.
    Active tweeter and tumbler - https://twitter.com/surrie_fullard
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,467MI6 Agent
    C'mon, you can work it out surely... :))
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • SurrieSurrie Surrey, UKPosts: 79MI6 Agent
    Now I'm embarassed! ;%
    What counts is what the heroine provokes, or rather what she represents. She is the one, or rather the love or fear she inspires in the hero , or else the concern he feels for her, who makes him act the way he does.

    Author of 'Pussy Galore - A Representation of Women in James Bond Films'.
    Active tweeter and tumbler - https://twitter.com/surrie_fullard
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,467MI6 Agent
    Here you are:

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VlfOV3laHxc
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • SurrieSurrie Surrey, UKPosts: 79MI6 Agent
    As soon as I saw the title I felt a sense of nostalgia from my school days.

    You would not believe the amount of times I have herd that joke :) lol.

    I didnt know it had anything to do with Oklahoma until now! Thank you for enlightening me.
    What counts is what the heroine provokes, or rather what she represents. She is the one, or rather the love or fear she inspires in the hero , or else the concern he feels for her, who makes him act the way he does.

    Author of 'Pussy Galore - A Representation of Women in James Bond Films'.
    Active tweeter and tumbler - https://twitter.com/surrie_fullard
  • SB_DiamondSB_Diamond North Miami Beach, FLPosts: 126MI6 Agent
    I had not been aware of this "controversy" since I still haven't seen this movie (for shame I know) but from what I've read in this thread it sounds like Pussy was Bisexual in the movie(I am myself so I'd sorta know right?) by todays standards. But I think that at that time, as others have mentioned the ignorance towards sexuality, she was probably a lesbian that was "swayed" by James Bond in a most Fleming manner. And also in a manner that is a fantasy for most men (on this I'm an expert) since many fantasize about being with a Lesbian or "changing" one. I think this fascination comes from the origins of lesbianism: the island of Lesbos (one of the Greek isles) that was inhabited solely by women who were famed and coveted by men for allegedly being very sexually talented. I guess some fascinations never die...
    *~Orbis Non Sufficit~*
  • RJJBRJJB United StatesPosts: 346MI6 Agent
    I have never seen anything on screen to indicate that Pussy Galore is a lesbian. It's in the original novel, but not the movie. And the fact that the Flying Circus was comprised of all women pilots is not a sign of lesbianism. If a group of same sex people is supposed to be a sign, then I guess the hoods convention would have turned into an all male orgy, if Goldfinger hadn't gassed them
  • SurrieSurrie Surrey, UKPosts: 79MI6 Agent
    RJJB wrote:
    I have never seen anything on screen to indicate that Pussy Galore is a lesbian.

    It may not be that obvious that she is a lesbian, but there have been hints that she is at least bisexual in the film.

    When she says "Im immune to it". This line followed when James Bond tried his charm on her.

    But that fact that she was swayed in the end shows that she was not lesbian in the film. More bisexual. But in the novel it is said that she was lesbian. But again at the end of the novel Bond was able to seduce her. Though I think Fleming did mean for her to be a lesbian. By showing that Bond could seduce a lesbian, just enhances his characteristics of being a " macho man" / "lady killer". Thats what I think Fleming meant it to be like anyway.
    What counts is what the heroine provokes, or rather what she represents. She is the one, or rather the love or fear she inspires in the hero , or else the concern he feels for her, who makes him act the way he does.

    Author of 'Pussy Galore - A Representation of Women in James Bond Films'.
    Active tweeter and tumbler - https://twitter.com/surrie_fullard
  • RJJBRJJB United StatesPosts: 346MI6 Agent
    edited November 2007
    I have known plenty of women who have been immune to my charm, and they weren't lesbians.:)
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited November 2007
    Surrie wrote:
    But that fact that she was swayed in the end shows that she was not lesbian in the film. More bisexual.
    I don't agree. I think she was lesbian, rather than bisexual. The fact that she was swayed at the end I think merely plays into the whole macho fantasy.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    RJJB wrote:
    I have never seen anything on screen to indicate that Pussy Galore is a lesbian. It's in the original novel, but not the movie. And the fact that the Flying Circus was comprised of all women pilots is not a sign of lesbianism. If a group of same sex people is supposed to be a sign, then I guess the hoods convention would have turned into an all male orgy, if Goldfinger hadn't gassed them
    It's a James Bond film. :)) I mean, of course the hoods weren't gay; that would be unheard of in a Bond film. ;) As for Pussy; well, it's ambigurous. I have always thought that she was gay, but obviously it's open to interpretation.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
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