WatchTime article thread suspended

That thread was turning into an ugly fight. For the time being, it's gone.
Vox clamantis in deserto
«1

Comments

  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,251Quartermasters
    Hardyboy wrote:
    That thread was turning into an ugly fight. For the time being, it's gone.

    Will it come back? Or are we subject to more Orwellian purging at the behest of Mr. Deaton. Or was he trying to erase again and got caught?

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • M4ttM4tt Posts: 10MI6 Agent
    I understand.

    I also apologise for joining simply to respond. However, I hope it is clear why I did so.

    Finally, Is it possible that, rather than removing it, you could consider simply locking it?
  • The Bond ExperienceThe Bond Experience Newtown, PAPosts: 5,490Quartermasters
    I agree...locked but not deleted. As prickly as it became there were some important learnings and BEWARE signs to learn about.
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,251Quartermasters
    edited February 2009
    M4tt wrote:
    I understand.

    I also apologise for joining simply to respond. However, I hope it is clear why I did so.

    Finally, Is it possible that, rather than removing it, you could consider simply locking it?

    Yes I hope the thread was locked and saved and preserved for posterity without anyone being able to delete or change responses. I believe Watchtime would want to know about it. Please don't destroy the evidence.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • DellDeatonDellDeaton Posts: 25MI6 Agent
    edited February 2009
    Hardyboy wrote:
    That thread was turning into an ugly fight. For the time being, it's gone.

    Will it come back? Or are we subject to more Orwellian purging at the behest of Mr. Deaton. Or was he trying to erase again and got caught?

    DG

    No such communication from me. I was content to plow through as I was, Post by Post, answering and refuting each claim.

    Should the Thread come back, I would appreciate at least as much opportunity to state my side of any issue as others are given here.

    After all, AJB clearly seems to respect my work enough to continue to make available through your website the James Bond Omega watches article that I contributed here (and which remains an exclusive).

    On the other hand, from what I'm seeing already above: What's the purpose of starting a new Thread that already seems to be headed in the same direction?

    Thank you.
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,251Quartermasters
    DellDeaton wrote:
    Hardyboy wrote:
    That thread was turning into an ugly fight. For the time being, it's gone.

    Will it come back? Or are we subject to more Orwellian purging at the behest of Mr. Deaton. Or was he trying to erase again and got caught?

    DG

    No such communication from me. I was content to plow through as I was, Post by Post, answering and refuting each claim.

    Should the Thread come back, I would appreciate at least as much opportunity to state my side of any issue as others are given here.

    After all, AJB clearly seems to respect my work enough to continue to make available through your website the James Bond Omega watches article that I contributed here (and which remains an exclusive).

    Thank you.

    He's back. Mr. Deaton, you can still answer the question.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,906Chief of Staff
    The topic is not deleted, it's just not visible at the moment. It may come back, but it will be probably be edited to remove the slugfest. And this was a decision I made myself and refered to the rest of the moderators--it was not done at the behest of ANY member, thank you very much, and NO ONE has that kind of sway over us.
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • DellDeatonDellDeaton Posts: 25MI6 Agent
    DellDeaton wrote:
    Will it come....
    No such communication from me....
    He's back. Mr. Deaton, you can still answer the question.

    DG

    Please re-state your question.
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,251Quartermasters
    Hardyboy wrote:
    The topic is not deleted, it's just not visible at the moment. It may come back, but it will be probably be edited to remove the slugfest. And this was a decision I made myself and refered to the rest of the moderators--it was not done at the behest of ANY member, thank you very much, and NO ONE has that kind of sway over us.

    O.K., that sounds good to me. I'm not ashamed of anything I've written, so you don't have to edit me. Unless, of course, you see it differently.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,251Quartermasters
    DellDeaton wrote:
    DellDeaton wrote:
    No such communication from me....
    He's back. Mr. Deaton, you can still answer the question.

    DG

    Please re-state your question.

    What's the point? You have not answered it in 3 or 4 pages of a now locked post. So just fade away. You've lost. Everyone now knows what you are about. There is no point in continuing, you just do yourself more damage. I'm truely sorry for you. You apparently don't even realise how sad you are. Go in peace. It is finished.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • M4ttM4tt Posts: 10MI6 Agent
    Actually, just let it lie. Eventually I will read the article and then I will know. Mr Deaton already knows. Maybe his conscience is clear, maybe not. He has to live with it if it isn't. I don't.

    Thanks for the opportunity to state my case, I'm sorry it got so messy. Thanks Rick for letting me know.

    Interesting site you have here guys.

    Matt
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
    Hmmm, seems I missed something :s
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • DellDeatonDellDeaton Posts: 25MI6 Agent
    Asp9mm wrote:
    Hmmm, seems I missed something :s

    Really? It seems just like when I left.

    {[]
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
    DellDeaton wrote:
    Asp9mm wrote:
    Hmmm, seems I missed something :s

    Really? It seems just like when I left.

    {[]

    Except you have a new username, are you the real Dell Deaton or are you Spartacus?
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • 72897289 Beau DesertPosts: 1,691MI6 Agent
    I don't mind so much suspending the thread, but I had spent about a half an hour typing up a nice addition and was putting the finishing touches on it when my reply and the post suddenly disappeared without a trace.

    :#
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,251Quartermasters
    7289 wrote:
    I don't mind so much suspending the thread, but I had spent about a half an hour typing up a nice addition and was putting the finishing touches on it when my reply and the post suddenly disappeared without a trace.

    :#

    Ooh, sorry about that. I'm sure it would have been good. Please post it here.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,251Quartermasters
    edited February 2009
    M4tt wrote:
    Actually, just let it lie. Eventually I will read the article and then I will know. Mr Deaton already knows. Maybe his conscience is clear, maybe not. He has to live with it if it isn't. I don't.

    Thanks for the opportunity to state my case, I'm sorry it got so messy. Thanks Rick for letting me know.

    Interesting site you have here guys.

    Matt

    No problem M4tt. If you like I can send you a copy. PM with your address, and you got it. Bontoys, don't worry, you can still have mine.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    edited February 2009
    Thanks, DG I will read the article, especially with the fact in mind, that the 1016 has been done in 1963 and the Villiers painting has been finished in 1962.
    M4tt wrote:
    Actually, just let it lie. Eventually I will read the article and then I will know. Mr Deaton already knows. Maybe his conscience is clear, maybe not. He has to live with it if it isn't. I don't.

    Thanks for the opportunity to state my case, I'm sorry it got so messy. Thanks Rick for letting me know.

    Interesting site you have here guys.

    Matt

    To my opinion, you have no reason to apologize. I am happy, that you made your point clear and have been very specific.

    He's back. Mr. Deaton, you can still answer the question.

    DG

    I think, that Mr. Deaton was so busy to snipe on everyone and everything from page 1 and 2 on the thread, that he had no occasion to read, what you have been asking from page 4 and on.
    I can't believe, that I am still talking for him by the way.

    So I suggest, you ask your question again as he may not have seen it.
    Asp9mm wrote:
    Hmmm, seems I missed something :s

    Not really. Mr. Deaton had a minor rant here and the last thing was, that he left the forum majorly because of you and me and that I am not competent in choosing the correct watches for my webpage :D

    And I reported him for using real names and running amok here. But I did not want the entire thread to be removed.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • M4ttM4tt Posts: 10MI6 Agent
    Morning all.

    Now I have a pressing reason for making a request:

    Over at WUS Mr Deaton has stated that:

    "Now, now: Come on, M4tt. In a Thread that's already definitively destroyed the fantasties of Richard dos Santos ("Donald Grant") w/ a clear statement that didn't use your work, you have to go and spoil it by suggesting that I somehow got you involved in the "other" Forum Thread that is now locked."

    Either I missed this 'clear statement' or it didn't happen. I take this 'clear statement to be a denial of plagiarism. I saw no such denial, however, I could have missed it.

    Did anyone else see a clear denial?

    Moderators, This is the problem: this hidden thread may be bad tempered but it is also a record of what was actually said. Without that record it is difficult to establish the truth of assertions now being made.

    There are two arguments of relevance here. The first concerns an accusation of theft of intellectual property. While I have not actually made this accusation I am becoming increasingly interested in the answer. I am acutely aware that this discussion is of little interest to this forum, except in as much as it bears on the question of the character of its members.

    The second concerns a hypothesis about the watch that Fleming and, by extension, Bond may have worn. This discussion would, I think be of interest to this board.

    As it stands Mr Deaton asserts it was a 1016 Rolex Explorer.

    I claim that Fleming had at least two Explorers, one of which was a 1016 and the other of which was probably a 6350 and may well not have actually had 'Explorer' on the dial.

    Now, the history of ideas is full of people arriving at very similar conclusions at about the same time so I would be slow to accuse Mr Deaton of stealing ideas. However, I have to admit that his failure to actually answer a very simple question does not look good.

    He now claims to have done so, and is making conciliatory PMs to me, Can someone either confirm or refute this or release the information that will allow those with an interest to make up their own minds.

    Please?
  • ke02ewwke02eww USPosts: 2,063MI6 Agent
    Compelling case.

    The mods on here do a fantastic, unpaid, and occasionally unappreciated job...

    an essential job.

    I for one followed (contributed) to the tread, but wasn't surprised that it quickly morphed into sewerage. It badly needed closing before someone put in print that which might later end up in court.

    From memory, I doubt it got quite that far, but befoe it is re-instated, someone should cast a legal eye over it.

    Once that's done satisfactorily, I feel M4tt has made a compelling case to have it re-instated, closed.

    A closing word....this is easily the best, friendliest, and most professionally run bond collecting forum, on one of the (arguably the ) best bond fan sites on the web...

    let's keep it that way...
  • DellDeatonDellDeaton Posts: 25MI6 Agent
    M4tt wrote:
    ... Either I missed this 'clear statement' or it didn't happen. I take this 'clear statement to be a denial of plagiarism. I saw no such denial, however, I could have missed it.

    Did anyone else see a clear denial? ...

    The WatchTime article was completely my own, original work. Nothing you wrote had anything to do w/ it.

    As far as comments about legal concerns and Moderation of this Forum, I wouldn't be dismissive of that. Unsubstantiated claims of "plagarism," which is, of course defamatory to my character, were made and allowed to perpetuate here. Then, suddenly, when I refuted them, the Thread was suddenly Closed.

    Someone used the term "Orwellian" here. Yeah, that fits. Think of how many people have weighed in on this who have not even read my article. Think of how much easier it would have been to get copies than to go on and on here. Motives?

    No, this is not a well-moderated Forum. I have "we screwed up" and "please come back" eMails from Simon dating back to my departure two years ago. It's outrageous to think that I'd have to come back here to Post what is really the simple question:

    "Have you actually read the article?"

    - or -

    "What's your substantive basis for making what can otherwise be read as libelous charges?"

    Sad. :(
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    edited February 2009
    Dell,

    now you are having a go on the mods. Who's next?

    And I remember, that some of your terms in the recent discussions have not been role models for good behaviour, too.

    I am 100% of the opinion of ke02eww - this forum is definitely the best and the fact that not everyone is bowing down in front of you has nothing to do with it's qualities.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,251Quartermasters
    Bondtoys wrote:
    Dell,

    now you are having a go on the mods. Who's next?

    And I remember, that some of your terms in the recent discussions have not been role models for good behaviour, too.

    I am 100% of the opinion of ke02eww - this forum is definitely the best and the fact that not everyone is bowing down in front of you has nothing to do with it's qualities.

    Well said. When people are not snowed by what Mr. Deaton says about them in secret, he's not happy.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • DellDeatonDellDeaton Posts: 25MI6 Agent
    DellDeaton wrote:
    M4tt wrote:
    ... Either I missed ...
    ..."Have you actually read the article?"

    - or -

    "What's your substantive basis for making what can otherwise be read as libelous charges?"

    Sad. :(

    As I said. Can't answer my questions?
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,251Quartermasters
    DellDeaton wrote:
    M4tt wrote:
    ... Either I missed this 'clear statement' or it didn't happen. I take this 'clear statement to be a denial of plagiarism. I saw no such denial, however, I could have missed it.

    Did anyone else see a clear denial? ...

    The WatchTime article was completely my own, original work. Nothing you wrote had anything to do w/ it.

    As far as comments about legal concerns and Moderation of this Forum, I wouldn't be dismissive of that. Unsubstantiated claims of "plagarism," which is, of course defamatory to my character, were made and allowed to perpetuate here. Then, suddenly, when I refuted them, the Thread was suddenly Closed.

    Someone used the term "Orwellian" here. Yeah, that fits. Think of how many people have weighed in on this who have not even read my article. Think of how much easier it would have been to get copies than to go on and on here. Motives?

    No, this is not a well-moderated Forum. I have "we screwed up" and "please come back" eMails from Simon dating back to my departure two years ago. It's outrageous to think that I'd have to come back here to Post what is really the simple question:

    "Have you actually read the article?"

    - or -

    "What's your substantive basis for making what can otherwise be read as libelous charges?"

    Sad. :(

    Just preserving this for posterity. M4tt will have a look at the text and make up his own mind. Please, use my screen name from here on in. You have been warned.

    Just to be clear, Mr. Deaton, are you saying that you did not appropriate M4tt's work on the literary Bond's Rolex over at WUS and use it for your Watchtime article?

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    ke02eww wrote:
    A closing word....this is easily the best, friendliest, and most professionally run bond collecting forum, on one of the (arguably the ) best bond fan sites on the web...

    let's keep it that way...

    Friendliest?

    Well, there certainly are some here who are genuine and whole-heartedly decent.

    However, there would also seem to be a number motivated by that human failing noted as "self interest".

    Sadly, this is probably reflected in the quite limited number of regular contruibutors to the forum. :(
  • DellDeatonDellDeaton Posts: 25MI6 Agent
    DellDeaton wrote:
    M4tt wrote:
    ... Either I missed this 'clear statement' or it didn't happen. I take this 'clear statement to be a denial of plagiarism. I saw no such denial, however, I could have missed it.

    Did anyone else see a clear denial? ...

    The WatchTime article was completely my own, original work. Nothing you wrote had anything to do w/ it.

    As far as comments about legal concerns and Moderation of this Forum, I wouldn't be dismissive of that. Unsubstantiated claims of "plagarism," which is, of course defamatory to my character, were made and allowed to perpetuate here. Then, suddenly, when I refuted them, the Thread was suddenly Closed.

    Someone used the term "Orwellian" here. Yeah, that fits. Think of how many people have weighed in on this who have not even read my article. Think of how much easier it would have been to get copies than to go on and on here. Motives?

    No, this is not a well-moderated Forum. I have "we screwed up" and "please come back" eMails from Simon dating back to my departure two years ago. It's outrageous to think that I'd have to come back here to Post what is really the simple question:

    "Have you actually read the article?"

    - or -

    "What's your substantive basis for making what can otherwise be read as libelous charges?"

    Sad. :(
    ... Just to be clear, Mr. Deaton, are you saying that you did not appropriate M4tt's work on the literary Bond's Rolex over at WUS and use it for your Watchtime article? ....

    Absolutely.
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,251Quartermasters
    DellDeaton wrote:
    DellDeaton wrote:

    The WatchTime article was completely my own, original work. Nothing you wrote had anything to do w/ it.

    As far as comments about legal concerns and Moderation of this Forum, I wouldn't be dismissive of that. Unsubstantiated claims of "plagarism," which is, of course defamatory to my character, were made and allowed to perpetuate here. Then, suddenly, when I refuted them, the Thread was suddenly Closed.

    Someone used the term "Orwellian" here. Yeah, that fits. Think of how many people have weighed in on this who have not even read my article. Think of how much easier it would have been to get copies than to go on and on here. Motives?

    No, this is not a well-moderated Forum. I have "we screwed up" and "please come back" eMails from Simon dating back to my departure two years ago. It's outrageous to think that I'd have to come back here to Post what is really the simple question:

    "Have you actually read the article?"

    - or -

    "What's your substantive basis for making what can otherwise be read as libelous charges?"

    Sad. :(
    ... Just to be clear, Mr. Deaton, are you saying that you did not appropriate M4tt's work on the literary Bond's Rolex over at WUS and use it for your Watchtime article? ....

    Absolutely.

    Mr. Deaton, O.K., you realise, of course, that the evidence suggests that M4tt's work pre-dates your own. The evidence also shows that you were aware of what M4tt wrote and that you participated in that thread concerning his discovery. The evidence also suggests that you were upset and agitated with M4tt's discovery.

    Now on to accuracy. The problem that I have always had with you is that you spread falshoods about the watches in Bond's world. The gold watch theory that you had was false. Now, it seems you published a falsehood with respect to the literary Bond's watch. The painting of Fleming pre-dates the introduction of the 1016 Explorer. So the watch on Fleming's wrist in that picture could not have been the 1016 Explorer. Do you have an explanation for this Mr. Deaton?

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly Liverpool, UKPosts: 1,048MI6 Agent
    Wow, deja vu. That'll be a second topic closed then. I'll leave this one here for you to all view, and to perhaps ponder.

    The PM button can be found on the left hand side of the screen. Might I suggest you use this to continue the discussion in future, before the lot of you receive bans?

    Thanks for your time.
    Founder of the Wint & Kidd Appreciation Society.

    @merseytart
  • PredatorPredator Posts: 790Chief of Staff
    Wow, deja vu. That'll be a second topic closed then. I'll leave this one here for you to all view, and to perhaps ponder.

    Let me follow up my fellow moderator's post closing this topic ...

    AJB is not a location in which to post defamatory comments about other members.

    As a professional publisher myself, if you feel you have a complaint against a member who has written an article that is - in your opinion - plagiarised, then I insist you contact the publisher of that article.

    They can be contacted by writing to:

    WatchTime
    Ebner Publishing International, Inc.
    274 Madison Avenue, Suite 705
    New York, NY 10016
    USA

    Any further comments defaming a member will be dealt with severely.
This discussion has been closed.