Walther P99 trigger guard (flat or concave)?
Danjaq
San Francisco Bay AreaPosts: 92MI6 Agent
Something I've noticed on some of the P99s that Bond has used from TND to CR. On some of the guns, the front of the trigger guard was concave (curved out) like on a GLOCK pistol. This version can be seen on the P99 in TND and on Daniel Craig's P99 as he shoots the floatation devices in the house in Venice:
In other versions of the gun, the trigger guard had a flat front like on the HK USP. This version of the P99 can be seen on Pierce Brosnan's P99 in TWINE:
Were these two P99s different versions made by Walther? Or was the gun with the concave trigger guard a Generation 1 model and the gun with the flat trigger guard a Generation 2 model?
In other versions of the gun, the trigger guard had a flat front like on the HK USP. This version of the P99 can be seen on Pierce Brosnan's P99 in TWINE:
Were these two P99s different versions made by Walther? Or was the gun with the concave trigger guard a Generation 1 model and the gun with the flat trigger guard a Generation 2 model?
Comments
Both guns were different at the front of the trigger guard, but both had different safety mechanisms on the other side of the frame as well. Apparently one was made by Walther in Germany, and the other was made in the states under licence by Smith & Wesson - unfortunately, I can't recall which was which.
It is worth noting though, that compared to a selection of Glocks, H&K's and Sigs, the two Walther p99s were disapointing to use and over three days shooting both suffered a fair amount of stoppages.
As a Bond fan (and former Walther PPK owner before the British pistol ban) I was really dissapointed and chose a Glock for the competition shoot.
http://apbateman.com
http://lundestudio.com/WaltherP99FAQ/
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Don't get me wrong, the Walther P99s that I used were great to use and if I were in a position to use/own one (which as Bond's gun I probably would!)I would try fettling the ammunition to suit. I was merely a guest and using the guns and ammunition supplied. I'm no ammunition expert, but I used to own a Browning HP35 and it jammed terribly using Howitzer 9mm rounds, but after switching to Winchester I never had another stoppage with at least 2000 rds more useage.
Another problem I encountered was when doing fast and enthusiastic reloads I twice caught the skin on my gun-hand with the base of the maqazine as I slammed it home. Hurt like hell and slowed me down. I haven't got shovels for hands, but felt the grip was a little short.
When I went over to see my friend I hadn't shot a pistol for six years and had never liked the look of Glocks - I like asthetics and thought they looked like toys compared to my old Browning - but how wrong I was. They are so easy to use, have a nice lack of furniture on the frame like safeties, de-cocking levers ets, nice sights - the perfect combat pistol - probably backed up by the amount of law enforcement agencies using them around the world. A weapon's litmus test is its adoption to service. I may be wrong (and my god there's a wealth of knowledge on this site who will tell me) but I'm not aware of any military or police agency using the P99 as its standard weapon.
http://apbateman.com
I shot for five years before the British pistol ban, using many club guns and sharing alike, and even though range was short (25m was good), and the sights were small, and compared to 9mm and larger calibres it was short on power - it remains my favourite gun.
For practical competitions I always used my Browning or CZ, but afterwards when it was just a bit of mindless fun - I always picked up the PPK.
Maybe it was a Bond thing.
http://apbateman.com
That's interesting to hear, as no one I know that owns one has never had a problem either.
The S&W licensed manufactured SW99 might be a different story.
At any rate, all Walther Germany produced P99's until the 2nd generation had the finger hook on the front of the trigger guard.
The 2nd generation of P99 is just butt-ugly, but that's just my opinion.
Your experience with the P99 obviously far outweighs mine. And I'm genuinely pleased to hear my experience may have been isolated. Tell me, did you ever catch your hand while changing clips? I did, and felt the grip was a little short.
http://apbateman.com
Thanks. I contacted Ken Lunde, the webmaster of that site, and he clarified that the P99 from TND with the curved trigger guard is of an early P99 with the so-called split-trigger: http://lundestudio.com/WaltherP99FAQ/VII/4.html
And for the first style of P99, with the proprietary accessory rail and hooked trigger guard, the vast majority used the flat type of trigger guard circa TWINE. In 2004, the P99 trigger guard became round as the design changed to its current incarnation.
I thought that a number of Police forces world-wide used the P99 - maybe I'm wrong. But I do recall that there were at least two British forces that use(d) the P99, I think one of them was Nottinghamshire.
There was the early-style P99 in TND which had the split trigger and the concave trigger guard (this version was also seen in the Venice scenes in CR).
And there was the version with the flat trigger guard and accessory rail in TWINE.
As for DAD, I didn't notice any close-ups of the P99 to tell which version it is. I'll have to watch closely the next time I watch DAD.
great! thanks for clearing that up, so Craig uses the early model P99?
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http://s274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/monza860/
If you mean magazines, no I have never caught any part of my anatomy on the P99. The grip fits my hand like it was made for me.
As a note, my current P99 does not have the finger hook on the trigger guard. My previous three including the MI6 (yes MI6) did.
This was just before the redesign of the frame for the 2nd variation P99. It should rightly be called the 3rd variation as the split trigger was dropped when they eliminated the finger hook and the roll marks in favour of the laser engraving. The ramp inside of the trigger guard was also moved back.
Dieter Marschall in his book, "Walther Pistols Models 1 Through P99 makes no distinction between these variations, but the expanded book was published in 1999 before the 2nd variation was produced with the above mentioned changes.
The current P99 (the butt ugly model) is really the 3rd variation.
These are from my website (that I haven't updated in years) The Unofficial Walther Homepage. You can see a photo of my first P99 there as well. SN was #237 on that one. One of the first to be imported to the States.
The P99 below is so rare now, it commands in excess of $7000 USD. I bought it for $1K in '96 or '97. Can't remember now. I sold it for $2K in 2000.