Bonding With Time Part 2

SiCo · April 2009

Donald Grants latest article takes an in-depth look at some more of the wrist watches of James Bond, this time including his allies and even villains!

http://www.ajb007.co.uk/articles/james-bonds-watches-2/

If you have any questions or comments I am sure Donald will be only too pleased to answer them and discuss his article here.

Part 2.2 will be coming during the week, so what are you waiting for, brew a mug of coffee (or tea) and enjoy

.

http://www.ajb007.co.uk/articles/james-bonds-watches-2/

Mister White · April 2009

Great article.

Thank you Donald. {[]

I always wanted to know more about Red Grant's watch too!

Higgins · April 2009

Hello DG,

reading your article was a real pleasure - as always! Great work!

I have been additionally touched by the first real expensive watch story of yours as my story is pretty similar:

My first expensive one has been also a GMT Master II which has been only available with the black-red bezel in 1985.

My Bond connection was not as strong as it is now, FYEO made me a Bond fan 4 years before, but Bond was always in my mind in the connection with Rolex.

It was a tough decision between the Rolex Cosmograph Daytona, the Submariner-Date (the non-date version was unimaginable for me) and the GMT II.
It did not bother me so much that the Submariner in 1985 had crown guards because TSWLM and TMWTGG have been very present for me then.

The Daytona (hand-wound) was excluded as I could not imagine to unscrew the crown on a daily basis to keep the watch moving :v (I know, I should have purchased 10 of them in these days (at around € 1000 each). Damned, where was my instinct??

The Submariner was excluded because of the fact, that the 1985 models did not feature a saphire crystal. On previous cheaper watches, I knew, how heavy my heart was, when I discovered another scratch on the crystal.

So, I went for the GMT II because of the saphire crystal instead of the old GMT, which had a plexi crystal then.

This was also a tough decision as my other hero, Magnum PI clearly wore the GMT with the Pepsi bezel and plexi in the series, which I still like today. It the decision for the saphire crystal meant a premium of 25% on the retail price, money has been VERY tight in those days..

So, even the Rolex-Bond connection strongly influenced my choice, I did not go with the exact watch, that my heroes wore in those days.

The GMT II is still my everyday watch today and I simply can't imagine myself to be without it.

Mister White · April 2009

Also nice story, Bondtoys!

The only expensive watch I have is a Longines.

No Bond connection there (as far as I know anyway) and I don't even know what the exact model is called, though I would love to find out some day.

It was given to me by my grandfather's second wife after my grandfather's funeral. She told me that he wanted me to have it. As you can imagine, this watch is of great personal value to me.

The Bond Experience · April 2009

GREAT article and I am always amazed at the amount of research that goes into something like this! GREAT coffee read in the am.

Nightshooter · April 2009

What a horrible article. You suck.

Ok... I'll be honest, the article rocks. I'm just ****ed because you have a 6238.

)

Donald Grant · April 2009

Thanks guys for the kind words. Bondtoys, I used to wear my GMT Master II quite regularly, but not so much anymore. Of late I've been waring my SBS CWC diver. I'm not big on quartz watches, but I understand why the military uses them. One of the best functions of the SBS CWC is the day-date function. Since my day is filled with as much report writing as action and adventure, if not more, the day-date function is an excellent feature.

DG

Asp9mm · April 2009

Great stuff DG. Good to see you wearing a CWC too {[]

7289 · April 2009

Always a pleasure to read an accurate, well researched article!!!!

THANKS!!!

-{

Panache · April 2009

A fine and extemely well written article DG. I found the information on the Breitling 806 Navitimer very interesting indeed. It's a watch I have always been curious about.

I would guess that the two watches pictured at the start of the article are your own, (?) if so I am deeply envious, the Rolex 6238 Pre-Daytona Chronograph is particularily gorgeous.

However...

The passage quoted from the book The Best Of Time Rolex Wristwatches An Unauthorized History: "The Speedmasters were relegated to occasions when they had to be worn, such as during space walks when the special extended bracelet allowed them to be worn outside the space suits" is simply wrong. Many of the Apollo astronauts wore their Speedmasters throughout the missions and there are ample pictures of them being worn in more candid and informal shots on earth. This is not in any way Rolex bashing and the error is not yours but that of the author of the passage. This is not just information I have aquired from photos and my own research but from the astronauts themselves that I have spoken to on the subject.

I don't know how accurate the statement "Almost all of the astronauts owned their own GMT-Masters" is but I will try to find out when I next meet astronauts from that era.

Don't get me wrong this is not an Omega thing either, they have for decades now touted the Speedmaster as the first and ONLY watch worn on the moon, this is completely wrong as David Scott (Apollo 15) wore a his own personal watch which was a Waltham on his third EVA on the surface of the moon. And he told me himself that Omega know this to be true and yet persist in advertising the Speedy as the only "Moonwatch."

This does not in anyway detract from what is a fine piece of work and I look forward the next instalment!

Donald Grant · April 2009

Asp9mm,

Thanks, that means a lot coming from you.

Panache,

I hear what you are saying. I know there have been long and heated debates on other forums regarding what watch the Astronauts wore, Rolex or Omega. I suppose it's the same with the debate regarding the real James Bond watch, Rolex or Omega. For my part I have no particular dog in the fight, at least not where it concerns the Astronauts. I think the Astronauts have used Rolex, Omega, Breitling, Bulova and even Seiko.

I believe the Dowling/Hess book is trying to say that the early Astronauts (Mercury and Gemini and perhaps Apollo) chose as their personal timepiece the Rolex GMT Master despite NASA's choice of the Omega Speedmaster. The Early Astronauts were pilots before they came to NASA, and I think they would have chosen the watch that was more associated with aerospace at that time. To my mind, that watch would have been the GMT Master. I think the Omega Speedmaster only became associated with Aerospace after NASA chose it.

Nevertheless, I do want a vintage Omega Speedmaster with dauphine hands to add to my collection. I love watches, and the Omega Speedmaster is a part of the NASA Astronauts story. So, no real argument from me. Ah, so many watches, so little time.

Lastly, I am not a watch brand snob, nor do I buy watches only related to James Bond. Some of the best watches I have are from small boutique watch companies that have nothing to do with James Bond, Rolex, Omega or Breitling.

DG

Panache · April 2009

Thanks for the response DG.

I am in complete agreement with you on the point about the GMT master being more associated with aerospace, early Speedmaster ads associated it more with sports especially motor sport as I recall.

I know this is a little OT but I hit the books after I last posted and came across a passage in Kesaharu Imai's A Time Capsule: Omega Speedmaster the Story of the first watch in outer space that I found interesting as I had heard your p;oint about the GMT Masters connection to Pan Am before:

"Walter Schirra had been told of the usefulness of chronographs by his pilot colleagues at Pan Am. They told him how Omega Speedmasters dial and hand design were easy to read and the watch's ease of operation made it especially reliable during emergencies.
(this was after the change to dauphine hands I assume)
It later states that Pan Am had a training facility near the Kennedy Space Centre which is where Schirra heard about the Speedmasters "strong reputation."

Thought you might find that of interest. I thought I had heard that an astronaut had had the Speedmaster recommended by pilot friends but didn't realise it was Pan Am too.

As for the later part of you post: "Ah so many watches so little time." Amen to that Brother.{[]

I hope, looking at your post, that you didn't think that I was inferring that you were a watch snob as truly no offence was meant. As far as watch collecting is concerned I think you have an admirable attitude and a discerning eye.

Getting slighty more on topic I would be interested in knowing peoples opinion as to which Rolex to buy as I would like either a vintage Explorer (a la Fleming) or, as it happens, a GMT Master? (but with the the Pepsi bezel)

I was going to say a Pussy GMT Master but that doesn't sound quite right!

Donald Grant · April 2009

Panache wrote:

I hope, looking at your post, that you didn't think that I was inferring that you were a watch snob as truly no offence was meant. As far as watch collecting is concerned I think you have an admirable attitude and a discerning eye.

Getting slighty more on topic I would be interested in knowing peoples opinion as to which Rolex to buy as I would like either a vintage Explorer (a la Fleming) or, as it happens, a GMT Master? (but with the the Pepsi bezel)

I was going to say a Pussy GMT Master but that doesn't sound quite right!

No, I did not think you were referring to me as a watch snob. I simply said that because I think it's important to point out that despite the fact that I write about some watches in a certain way, it does not mean I favor one brand over another. I am way beyond that now.

As for a GMT Master over an Explorer, well I made that choice long ago. However, I would not mind having a vintage Explorer in my stable. Again, so many watches, so little time. I wish you well in deciding.

DG

A7ce · April 2009

Quote of the week and ironic!

Donald Grant wrote:

Ah, so many watches, so little time.

shaken66 · April 2009

Thanks so much for these great articles. As a Bond and watch lover, they've made for great reading and re-reading over lunch hours. You obviously know your stuff! Question: to me there are just too many similarites in the cases, bezels, dials, and markings between the Rolex Submariner and the Omega Seamaster to be coincidental. Who got there first? Thanks again and looking forward to another installment! -{

Asp9mm · April 2009

There is an extensive article on the WWW about the watch Swigert was wearing during the Apollo 13 episode. It is very interesting as he had the GMT on before during and after the flight. I must try and find it again, it was excellent.

Donald Grant · April 2009

shaken66 wrote:

Thanks so much for these great articles. As a Bond and watch lover, they've made for great reading and re-reading over lunch hours. You obviously know your stuff! Question: to me there are just too many similarites in the cases, bezels, dials, and markings between the Rolex Submariner and the Omega Seamaster to be coincidental. Who got there first? Thanks again and looking forward to another installment! -{

Well, in terms of dive watches, the question you've asked should really be geared toward Blanpain and Rolex, not Omega and Rolex. I believe the history says that the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms was the first real dive watch followed closely by the Rolex Submariner. However, even that has been disputed with some saying the Submariner beat the Fifty Fathoms by months. I don't think Omega was in the game at that time.

One thing I do know is that the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms was primarily an issued military dive watch with only a small amount available to civillians. Altough the Rolex Submariner was also used by various military units, it was widely available to civillians.

DG

Edit: Oh, and thanks for your praise. That was very nice of you to say that about my article.

SiCo · April 2009

Please find part 2 now available, thanks again to Donald Grant it is a fantastic follow up tot he first piece.

http://www.ajb007.co.uk/articles/bonding-with-time-the-wristwatches-of-james-bond-22/

As before I am sure Donald Grant will be more than happy to answer your questions here.

Higgins · April 2009

As for the part 1, great article Donald Granmt.

I think, that we should try to bring Bill Yao to produce a custom made case for the top time.

And I remember, around 1990, it must have been, the local Rolex retailers where throwing rebates for purchasing the old stock Daytonas. The new automatic model has been advertized and noone could imagine, that any Rolex client would go for a handwound Rolex Oyster still.

Thanks for your extreme well researched work, it was a ride in a time-capsule for me {[]

Donald Grant · April 2009

Bondtoys wrote:

As for the part 1, great article Donald Granmt.

I think, that we should try to bring Bill Yao to produce a custom made case for the top time.

And I remember, around 1990, it must have been, the local Rolex retailers where throwing rebates for purchasing the old stock Daytonas. The new automatic model has been advertized and noone could imagine, that any Rolex client would go for a handwound Rolex Oyster still.

Thanks for your extreme well researched work, it was a ride in a time-capsule for me {[]

Bondtoys,

It's amazing isn't it? The early Daytona's are so sought after now even though they are handwound. It's sort of like the mania, particularly where vintage Rolexes are concerned, for original, beat up dials and hands. There was a time when vintage watch delers would routinely replace old, beat up dials and hands for newer ones. The watches just sold better looking newer or restored. Now every one wants the buggered up look. To each his own, I suppose.

DG

qbvi · April 2009

Donald Grant wrote:

Bondtoys wrote:

As for the part 1, great article Donald Granmt.

I think, that we should try to bring Bill Yao to produce a custom made case for the top time.

And I remember, around 1990, it must have been, the local Rolex retailers where throwing rebates for purchasing the old stock Daytonas. The new automatic model has been advertized and noone could imagine, that any Rolex client would go for a handwound Rolex Oyster still.

Thanks for your extreme well researched work, it was a ride in a time-capsule for me {[]

Bondtoys,

It's amazing isn't it? The early Daytona's are so sought after now even though they are handwound. It's sort of like the mania, particularly where vintage Rolexes are concerned, for original, beat up dials and hands. There was a time when vintage watch delers would routinely replace old, beat up dials and hands for newer ones. The watches just sold better looking newer or restored. Now every one wants the buggered up look. To each his own, I suppose.

DG

Thanks Donald for an excellent series of articles and revitalising my interest in watches. However, Arghh! I just let a near mint P2 slip from my grasp last month. My only consolation is to think about what Connery said to Indy Jones in "Holy Grail" about collecting...."let it go son, its not worth it...!" Well until next time.X-(

Donald Grant · April 2009

qbvi wrote:

Donald Grant wrote:

Bondtoys wrote:

As for the part 1, great article Donald Granmt.

I think, that we should try to bring Bill Yao to produce a custom made case for the top time.

And I remember, around 1990, it must have been, the local Rolex retailers where throwing rebates for purchasing the old stock Daytonas. The new automatic model has been advertized and noone could imagine, that any Rolex client would go for a handwound Rolex Oyster still.

Thanks for your extreme well researched work, it was a ride in a time-capsule for me {[]

Bondtoys,

It's amazing isn't it? The early Daytona's are so sought after now even though they are handwound. It's sort of like the mania, particularly where vintage Rolexes are concerned, for original, beat up dials and hands. There was a time when vintage watch delers would routinely replace old, beat up dials and hands for newer ones. The watches just sold better looking newer or restored. Now every one wants the buggered up look. To each his own, I suppose.

DG

Thanks Donald for an excellent series of articles and revitalising my interest in watches. However, Arghh! I just let a near mint P2 slip from my grasp last month. My only consolation is to think about what Connery said to Indy Jones in "Holy Grail" about collecting...."let it go son, its not worth it...!" Well until next time.X-(

I am glad I've had something to do with re-awakening your interest in watches. Yes, collecting can be a disease. In my case since I collect in so many areas even outside of the Bond realm, it has also caused me to collect books and magazines on every subject that I'm interested in. The books and magazines are so I can be knowledgable on what I collect and purchase wisely. I now have quite a collection of books and magazines on lots of subjects. I know another fellow who is much like this, his name is Ed Magianni.

By the way, I got my Bond/Stirling business card and GPS trackers today. They're great, thanks.

DG

qbvi · April 2009

Donald Grant wrote:

qbvi wrote:

Donald Grant wrote:

Bondtoys,

It's amazing isn't it? The early Daytona's are so sought after now even though they are handwound. It's sort of like the mania, particularly where vintage Rolexes are concerned, for original, beat up dials and hands. There was a time when vintage watch delers would routinely replace old, beat up dials and hands for newer ones. The watches just sold better looking newer or restored. Now every one wants the buggered up look. To each his own, I suppose.

DG

Thanks Donald for an excellent series of articles and revitalising my interest in watches. However, Arghh! I just let a near mint P2 slip from my grasp last month. My only consolation is to think about what Connery said to Indy Jones in "Holy Grail" about collecting...."let it go son, its not worth it...!" Well until next time.X-(

I am glad I've had something to do with re-awakening your interest in watches. Yes, collecting can be a disease. In my case since I collect in so many areas even outside of the Bond realm, it has also caused me to collect books and magazines on every subject that I'm interested in. The books and magazines are so I can be knowledgable on what I collect and purchase wisely. I now have quite a collection of books and magazines on lots of subjects. I know another fellow who is much like this, his name is Ed Magianni.

By the way, I got my Bond/Stirling business card and GPS trackers today. They're great, thanks.

DG

As Brosnan said in GE..."there's 3 things we have in common..." Watches...holsters...grooming...

Can identify with your reference sources...my better half forces me to make space for the kids...my response is that my toys will become our kids toys as they grow up (p/s excuse only works for our boy, not our daughter!!!);%

Ed is a terrific fellow. Swapped emails with him often. One idea that crossed our minds before was a compilation of "research" for all Bond collectors/fans....with "experts/researchers" contributing articles. I certainly toyed with this idea in my favourite area...the movie "From Russia with Love", having amassed/researched and written/unpublished a number of articles that originated from my interest in collecting things from that movie....however my Bond interests/non Bond interests are also wider.

Such a tome can cater to the general Bond fan but also have a wealth of well researched info on what to look for when collecting items used in the movies...not necessarily production props, but things like the Fleurs des Alpes/Pinaud Elixer...The difference that this tome would have is the wealth of fascinating background information about the products..much like what you did on your articles...like what Giblin did...but on the collecting front as opposed to locations.

Some of the research I am working on
1. Dating FRWL, the movie
2. The right chess moves
3. British passport, visas, stamps and documentation used in the movie
4. David and Caroline Somerset, No Children?
5. Story of the gold sovereign
6. Rolleiflex camera and miniature tape recorder
7. Bosphorus ferries, 1963 timetable and jetons
8. Orient Express and 1963 timetable
9. Pan Am and 1963 timetable
10. Kerim’s cigarette holder
11. Bug detector
12. Brausch silencer
13. Tanya’s compact
14. Map of Russian Consulate, the real consulate and the movie consulate
15. Istanbul map, locations and movie logistics
16. Trilby
17. Glen Urqhart Check Suit
18. Making FRWL props

Wondering how feasible this idea would be...and if there are enough "experts" on the forum willing to participate on a general book....not to mention the logistic compilation nightmare - (definitely easier for one person to do a book on their own area of expertise and the books collectively make a series) then to to eventually get EON sanction and formally published.?:)

I for one would definitely buy books written by other forum experts.{[]

p/s glad you like the props...by all means play with the business card...thats why its a peelable prop to marvel at the electronic gizmos inside, I can always send you backups...busn cards are only couple of dollars to make now that the setup costs are written off - most of the order costs were the GPS/materials research. I am told to use Scotch Restickeable glue (post it note glue) if the adhesive wears off from excessive use over time. Just glue around card edges, not the whole surface.

Bonding With Time Part 2

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