It's probably always going to be a guessing game unless someone gets the answer from Mr. Ford, but based on the photos in "Bond On Set" (in particular page 076), I think the suit is charcoal. Granted it's a tough call thanks to the various lighting, but I believe midnight blue would photograph as black, and the suit just isn't that dark. Many designers use midnight blue for tuxes because in average light it shows black, whereas black shows a hint of green. The Harrington jacket in the desert scenes looks black in photos but was a midnight blue. I am absolutely certain of all of this! ?:)
"How did he die?"
"Your contact?" "Not well."
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Someone has a closet full of black suits. )
Ha, I wish, though I just bought one.
No, I just find it ridiculous to say that you can't wear a black suit. I'm pretty sure every men's magazine would disagree with you (I believe it was Details that just had a spread that included the essential summer suits, and a black suit was one of them, dressed down with a white shirt and pair of white sneakers), but even if you don't trust them as sources of fashion, if a black suit looks good, who cares about some rule that nobody's ever heard?
No, I just find it ridiculous to say that you can't wear a black suit. I'm pretty sure every men's magazine would disagree with you (I believe it was Details that just had a spread that included the essential summer suits, and a black suit was one of them, dressed down with a white shirt and pair of white sneakers), but even if you don't trust them as sources of fashion, if a black suit looks good, who cares about some rule that nobody's ever heard?
Not so much a rule no one has never heard of, but one that seems to be more of an unwritten rule. I remember my father telling me that dark charcoal and dark navy were the only acceptable dark colors for business, and that black was only for funerals or tuxedos. It's much like the unwritten rule about how only black shoes are acceptable if you're a banker in London. I suppose Details would recommend the black suit for evening/casual use, not for work use, unless you work at a nice restaurant. To me, that's more acceptable since a black suit, dressed down without a tie, is more of a relaxed, "hip," nightclub look. Plus, being worn in a dimly lit bar/lounge, one couldn't tell if it was black or just dark navy.
That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Someone has a closet full of black suits. )
Ha, I wish, though I just bought one.
No, I just find it ridiculous to say that you can't wear a black suit. I'm pretty sure every men's magazine would disagree with you (I believe it was Details that just had a spread that included the essential summer suits, and a black suit was one of them, dressed down with a white shirt and pair of white sneakers), but even if you don't trust them as sources of fashion, if a black suit looks good, who cares about some rule that nobody's ever heard?
It's not ridiculous, and in some cases it can cost you a job. It's proper etiquette that one avoids wearing blacks suits except in the case of mourning or formal wear.
To say it's ridiculous is near offensive for sartorialists such as myself....it's a rule that's almost written in stone. Not to mention, black is not flattering for most complexions. A blacks suit will make you look pale and sickly.
Many of us, particularly the sartorialists that abide by rules for wearing suits (yes, there are rules...and numerous books on it) just can't stomach a black suit. We just see it as "wrong" on multiple levels.
There is a great deal behind suit etiquette, such as color, cut, lapel style, matching as with tie and pocket square, shoes, socks, the proper length of the suit and the shirts....you'd be surprised how much goes into it. Might want to run a quick search or check out the Ask Andy forums or www.styleforum.net
I'm not sure as I don't remember that picture from the movie, but if that suit is black, which I don't remember any black suits during the movie, he shouldn't be wearing it. Fleming's bond never wore black.
Every few years, it seems like something else is what you should be wearing or not wearing. I understand the black suit rule that so many people adhere to, but I think there are a lot of other people that have the opposite opinion. I've read a few articles, since I happen to really like black suits, and it appears to be a trend that started in the 1970's, and though it's still a popular rule, as more of the Gen Y crowd comes into power, its becoming more acceptable, a sign of being young and hip.
But, as I imagine a lot of people who go through this forum probably appreciate a "Bondian" style, thus take suiting pretty seriously. So I don't think anyone is going to convince anyone else that black suits are only for undertakers and waiters, or that you can wear them whenever you want to.
They do. The current buisness suit used to be called a "sack suit" and was a sporty alternative to the more formal frock coat. Only after decades did it take the frocks place as proper business-wear. Views also vary depending on what side of the Atlantic you stand: glen check, for example, is a common pattern for American business attire, however many London professionals still see this as a sporty "weekend" suit material. This has more to do with it's traditional origin of being a tartan pattern for those without a tartan for their tweed hunting suits than any thing against such a subtle pattern. And that's really the kicker. Yes, suits change, however they are still deeply rooted in tradition. Black being improper didn't start in the 1970s. My grandfather, the most effortlessly stylish man I have ever seen, never had a black suit in his wardrobe for the 85 years he lived, even his dinner jacket was midnight blue. Tradition tells us that black is improper for business use, just as tradition tells me that I shouldn't wear my Greatful Dead T-shirt under my Kiton suit, but rather a dress shirt, and a tie that matches.
Look, I'm not telling you how to dress, if you love a fine black suit then more power to you. Heck, top it off with some samba sneakers if you want. But, in the world where I live, black is reserved for mourning or a night out. I'm 25-years-old, not sure what gen I am, and I have a black suit I use for funerals, and, thankfully, it doesn't get used a lot.
What I'm saying, or trying to say, is that I don't care what the trend is, I have my tradition. Trends bring Safari-suits, tradition brings Cary Grant.
Every few years, it seems like something else is what you should be wearing or not wearing. I understand the black suit rule that so many people adhere to, but I think there are a lot of other people that have the opposite opinion. I've read a few articles, since I happen to really like black suits, and it appears to be a trend that started in the 1970's, and though it's still a popular rule, as more of the Gen Y crowd comes into power, its becoming more acceptable, a sign of being young and hip.
But, as I imagine a lot of people who go through this forum probably appreciate a "Bondian" style, thus take suiting pretty seriously. So I don't think anyone is going to convince anyone else that black suits are only for undertakers and waiters, or that you can wear them whenever you want to.
Every few years, it seems like something else is what you should be wearing or not wearing. I understand the black suit rule that so many people adhere to, but I think there are a lot of other people that have the opposite opinion. I've read a few articles, since I happen to really like black suits, and it appears to be a trend that started in the 1970's, and though it's still a popular rule, as more of the Gen Y crowd comes into power, its becoming more acceptable, a sign of being young and hip.
But, as I imagine a lot of people who go through this forum probably appreciate a "Bondian" style, thus take suiting pretty seriously. So I don't think anyone is going to convince anyone else that black suits are only for undertakers and waiters, or that you can wear them whenever you want to.
Once again, trends change all the time. Rules take decades, if ever. The number of buttons on the front closer, or width of a lapel, or roped shoulders are trends as they change season to season. Rules, take into account the much more nuanced and mercurial world of cut, color, fabric, and the setting you are placing yourself in. A banker in London would not show up to work wearing tweeds and a loden cape, nor would a Scottish shooter wear a double-breasted navy pinstripe. Will this change? Who knows, the only thing we know for sure is that, right now, it is improper dress for both of them (not to mention very cold for the shooter and very hot for the banker). Are these rules silly? Yes. Heck, despite how much I love them, not to mention how much I've spent on them, I freely admit that suits are silly--ties even more so. We wear them, not only because they look damn good, but because it is the traditional wear of a "professional". If you want to go after these traditional rules, you have my blessing. But, I like the rules.
Once again, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, simply stating my view just as you state yours.
They do. The current buisness suit used to be called a "sack suit" and was a sporty alternative to the more formal frock coat. Only after decades did it take the frocks place as proper business-wear. Views also vary depending on what side of the Atlantic you stand: glen check, for example, is a common pattern for American business attire, however many London professionals still see this as a sporty "weekend" suit material. This has more to do with it's traditional origin of being a tartan pattern for those without a tartan for their tweed hunting suits than any thing against such a subtle pattern. And that's really the kicker. Yes, suits change, however they are still deeply rooted in tradition. Black being improper didn't start in the 1970s. My grandfather, the most effortlessly stylish man I have ever seen, never had a black suit in his wardrobe for the 85 years he lived, even his dinner jacket was midnight blue. Tradition tells us that black is improper for business use, just as tradition tells me that I shouldn't wear my Greatful Dead T-shirt under my Kiton suit, but rather a dress shirt, and a tie that matches.
Look, I'm not telling you how to dress, if you love a fine black suit then more power to you. Heck, top it off with some samba sneakers if you want. But, in the world where I live, black is reserved for mourning or a night out. I'm 25-years-old, not sure what gen I am, and I have a black suit I use for funerals, and, thankfully, it doesn't get used a lot.
What I'm saying, or trying to say, is that I don't care what the trend is, I have my tradition. Trends bring Safari-suits, tradition brings Cary Grant.
Well said. Style does change over the years (for example, double breasted suits are back in, though I think they are disgusting) but many of the core rules have not changed, such as the black suit rule. By the way, I too think the t-shirt/blazer look is gross!
By the way, 25 and a Kiton suit.....you must be doing well for yourself! Nice choice! {[]
Although black is definitely improper outside of nightclubs and funeral homes, I must point out that it was very common to wear black suits in the 1960's as demonstrated by Connery's Bond and by the Beatles... it became an unwritten rule a few years later but I guess some men never liked black at any time anywhere in the 60's or before that...
Fleming's Bond was not afraid to break the fashion rules....sandals worn with tropical wool suits anyone ? Of course, I'm not suggesting one should follow this example.
Fleming's Bond was not afraid to break the fashion rules....sandals worn with tropical wool suits anyone ? Of course, I'm not suggesting one should follow this example.
To be fair, I've never really thought of the literary Bond as very fashionable. Bond, to me at least, never really seemed to have lost his military bearing, and wore something of a civilian uniform rather than clothing. There is a chapter in Diamonds are Forever that reveals what Bond has in his battered pigskin suitcase: navy socks, black moccasin-style shoes, nylon underwear, white silk shirts, black knitted silk ties, and a tropical-weight suit in navy blue that was identical the one he was wearing. That's it. Now, earlier in his career, Bond did wear an old hounds-tooth tweed suit, but that was his merely his "country uniform". I don't think Bond dressed to be stylish, he just dressed to blend in with 1950's and early 1960's fashion sense. This fits in well with his dull name (that Fleming picked because it sounded dull), and his vague cover job as an Import/Export merchant. It isn't until we get to his cars that Bond starts to show some panache.
Also, the film Goldfinger was the start of the more "fashionable" Bond. We may laugh at that terrycloth onesi that he wore in Miami, but me thinks that, at the time, it was quite fashionable.
The Beatles had just made their big break worldwide, and their style was being adopted by almost everyone, so it would seem to make some sense that, despite however Bond may feel about John, Paul, George, and that other fellow, it had some influence in the costume department, or Guy Hamilton's tailor in choosing black fabric. In Thunderball, Bond has, in my opinion, an even greater faux pas by wearing a ventless, dark brown suit in the city, and the less I say about Lazenby's white suit with white shoes in OHMSS the better. In short, the black suit (with very a light silver, accenting waistcoat that seems awfully dandyish) can be grouped in the same trendiness that has damned the Safari-suit and Connery's short pink tie from DAF.
I don't see wearing a black suit, in the evening, to an exclusive semi-formal invitation only party as much of a fashion stretch. Remeber Bond wasn't attending a business meeting or going about by day. The suit we are talking about was worn to the Greene fundraiser party. I don't think Bond expected to be tramping about the desert the following day when he got dressed that evening.
I don't see wearing a black suit, in the evening, to an exclusive semi-formal invitation only party as much of a fashion stretch. Remeber Bond wasn't attending a business meeting or going about by day. The suit we are talking about was worn to the Greene fundraiser party. I don't think Bond expected to be tramping about the desert the following day when he got dressed that evening.
Well, we've already determined it's blue, but if what you say is true why wear a black suit and not a tuxedo if it is formal or semi formal? Not to mention formal jackets are supposed to be one button and unvented.
I don't see wearing a black suit, in the evening, to an exclusive semi-formal invitation only party as much of a fashion stretch. Remeber Bond wasn't attending a business meeting or going about by day. The suit we are talking about was worn to the Greene fundraiser party. I don't think Bond expected to be tramping about the desert the following day when he got dressed that evening.
Well, we've already determined it's blue, but if what you say is true why wear a black suit and not a tuxedo if it is formal or semi formal? Not to mention formal jackets are supposed to be one button and unvented.
I always thought it was a midnight blue. I'm just commenting on the black suit debate. I agree with most of what's been said, but wearing a black suit at night at a semi-formal event, as a one step down from formal (tuxedo) look wouldn't be pushing the limit in my book.
yeah, got a little carried away myself. To answer your question, charcoal in mohair tonic
Is this for the suit in the London scene?
Let's clarify -
Midnight Blue in Mohair Tonic for the Fund raiser
Charcoal in mohair tonic for the London scene?
Egg, on my face I got so carried away blabbering on about tradition that I forgot which suit we were talking about. I'm inclined to believe that both the fund raiser and the London scene were a very dark, maybe even midnight blue. In the words of Edward VIII, "In artificial light, dark blue is blacker than black" there is none of the graying out that happens with black on film.
Comments
"Your contact?" "Not well."
Ha, I wish, though I just bought one.
No, I just find it ridiculous to say that you can't wear a black suit. I'm pretty sure every men's magazine would disagree with you (I believe it was Details that just had a spread that included the essential summer suits, and a black suit was one of them, dressed down with a white shirt and pair of white sneakers), but even if you don't trust them as sources of fashion, if a black suit looks good, who cares about some rule that nobody's ever heard?
I've been in touch with Tom Ford and he says the colour is midnight navy blue in mohair tonic.
A plus is that it is Tom Fords favourite material and it will be available in store for a long time.
So it can't be as rare as all that, still don't expect any change from $5000 though
DC
Not so much a rule no one has never heard of, but one that seems to be more of an unwritten rule. I remember my father telling me that dark charcoal and dark navy were the only acceptable dark colors for business, and that black was only for funerals or tuxedos. It's much like the unwritten rule about how only black shoes are acceptable if you're a banker in London. I suppose Details would recommend the black suit for evening/casual use, not for work use, unless you work at a nice restaurant. To me, that's more acceptable since a black suit, dressed down without a tie, is more of a relaxed, "hip," nightclub look. Plus, being worn in a dimly lit bar/lounge, one couldn't tell if it was black or just dark navy.
It's not ridiculous, and in some cases it can cost you a job. It's proper etiquette that one avoids wearing blacks suits except in the case of mourning or formal wear.
To say it's ridiculous is near offensive for sartorialists such as myself....it's a rule that's almost written in stone. Not to mention, black is not flattering for most complexions. A blacks suit will make you look pale and sickly.
Many of us, particularly the sartorialists that abide by rules for wearing suits (yes, there are rules...and numerous books on it) just can't stomach a black suit. We just see it as "wrong" on multiple levels.
There is a great deal behind suit etiquette, such as color, cut, lapel style, matching as with tie and pocket square, shoes, socks, the proper length of the suit and the shirts....you'd be surprised how much goes into it. Might want to run a quick search or check out the Ask Andy forums or www.styleforum.net
http://s274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/monza860/
Do you have a picture? And are you referring to his overcoat, perhaps?
http://s274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/monza860/
I'm not sure as I don't remember that picture from the movie, but if that suit is black, which I don't remember any black suits during the movie, he shouldn't be wearing it. Fleming's bond never wore black.
http://s274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/monza860/
Every few years, it seems like something else is what you should be wearing or not wearing. I understand the black suit rule that so many people adhere to, but I think there are a lot of other people that have the opposite opinion. I've read a few articles, since I happen to really like black suits, and it appears to be a trend that started in the 1970's, and though it's still a popular rule, as more of the Gen Y crowd comes into power, its becoming more acceptable, a sign of being young and hip.
But, as I imagine a lot of people who go through this forum probably appreciate a "Bondian" style, thus take suiting pretty seriously. So I don't think anyone is going to convince anyone else that black suits are only for undertakers and waiters, or that you can wear them whenever you want to.
They do. The current buisness suit used to be called a "sack suit" and was a sporty alternative to the more formal frock coat. Only after decades did it take the frocks place as proper business-wear. Views also vary depending on what side of the Atlantic you stand: glen check, for example, is a common pattern for American business attire, however many London professionals still see this as a sporty "weekend" suit material. This has more to do with it's traditional origin of being a tartan pattern for those without a tartan for their tweed hunting suits than any thing against such a subtle pattern. And that's really the kicker. Yes, suits change, however they are still deeply rooted in tradition. Black being improper didn't start in the 1970s. My grandfather, the most effortlessly stylish man I have ever seen, never had a black suit in his wardrobe for the 85 years he lived, even his dinner jacket was midnight blue. Tradition tells us that black is improper for business use, just as tradition tells me that I shouldn't wear my Greatful Dead T-shirt under my Kiton suit, but rather a dress shirt, and a tie that matches.
Look, I'm not telling you how to dress, if you love a fine black suit then more power to you. Heck, top it off with some samba sneakers if you want. But, in the world where I live, black is reserved for mourning or a night out. I'm 25-years-old, not sure what gen I am, and I have a black suit I use for funerals, and, thankfully, it doesn't get used a lot.
What I'm saying, or trying to say, is that I don't care what the trend is, I have my tradition. Trends bring Safari-suits, tradition brings Cary Grant.
Every few years, it seems like something else is what you should be wearing or not wearing. I understand the black suit rule that so many people adhere to, but I think there are a lot of other people that have the opposite opinion. I've read a few articles, since I happen to really like black suits, and it appears to be a trend that started in the 1970's, and though it's still a popular rule, as more of the Gen Y crowd comes into power, its becoming more acceptable, a sign of being young and hip.
But, as I imagine a lot of people who go through this forum probably appreciate a "Bondian" style, thus take suiting pretty seriously. So I don't think anyone is going to convince anyone else that black suits are only for undertakers and waiters, or that you can wear them whenever you want to.
Once again, trends change all the time. Rules take decades, if ever. The number of buttons on the front closer, or width of a lapel, or roped shoulders are trends as they change season to season. Rules, take into account the much more nuanced and mercurial world of cut, color, fabric, and the setting you are placing yourself in. A banker in London would not show up to work wearing tweeds and a loden cape, nor would a Scottish shooter wear a double-breasted navy pinstripe. Will this change? Who knows, the only thing we know for sure is that, right now, it is improper dress for both of them (not to mention very cold for the shooter and very hot for the banker). Are these rules silly? Yes. Heck, despite how much I love them, not to mention how much I've spent on them, I freely admit that suits are silly--ties even more so. We wear them, not only because they look damn good, but because it is the traditional wear of a "professional". If you want to go after these traditional rules, you have my blessing. But, I like the rules.
Once again, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, simply stating my view just as you state yours.
Well said. Style does change over the years (for example, double breasted suits are back in, though I think they are disgusting) but many of the core rules have not changed, such as the black suit rule. By the way, I too think the t-shirt/blazer look is gross!
By the way, 25 and a Kiton suit.....you must be doing well for yourself! Nice choice! {[]
Big mistakes....
But black suits? C'mon! It's well documented that Bond knows that rule!
To be fair, I've never really thought of the literary Bond as very fashionable. Bond, to me at least, never really seemed to have lost his military bearing, and wore something of a civilian uniform rather than clothing. There is a chapter in Diamonds are Forever that reveals what Bond has in his battered pigskin suitcase: navy socks, black moccasin-style shoes, nylon underwear, white silk shirts, black knitted silk ties, and a tropical-weight suit in navy blue that was identical the one he was wearing. That's it. Now, earlier in his career, Bond did wear an old hounds-tooth tweed suit, but that was his merely his "country uniform". I don't think Bond dressed to be stylish, he just dressed to blend in with 1950's and early 1960's fashion sense. This fits in well with his dull name (that Fleming picked because it sounded dull), and his vague cover job as an Import/Export merchant. It isn't until we get to his cars that Bond starts to show some panache.
Also, the film Goldfinger was the start of the more "fashionable" Bond. We may laugh at that terrycloth onesi that he wore in Miami, but me thinks that, at the time, it was quite fashionable.
The Beatles had just made their big break worldwide, and their style was being adopted by almost everyone, so it would seem to make some sense that, despite however Bond may feel about John, Paul, George, and that other fellow, it had some influence in the costume department, or Guy Hamilton's tailor in choosing black fabric. In Thunderball, Bond has, in my opinion, an even greater faux pas by wearing a ventless, dark brown suit in the city, and the less I say about Lazenby's white suit with white shoes in OHMSS the better. In short, the black suit (with very a light silver, accenting waistcoat that seems awfully dandyish) can be grouped in the same trendiness that has damned the Safari-suit and Connery's short pink tie from DAF.
Well, we've already determined it's blue, but if what you say is true why wear a black suit and not a tuxedo if it is formal or semi formal? Not to mention formal jackets are supposed to be one button and unvented.
Is this for the suit in the London scene?
Let's clarify -
Midnight Blue in Mohair Tonic for the Fund raiser
Charcoal in mohair tonic for the London scene?
I always thought it was a midnight blue. I'm just commenting on the black suit debate. I agree with most of what's been said, but wearing a black suit at night at a semi-formal event, as a one step down from formal (tuxedo) look wouldn't be pushing the limit in my book.
Egg, on my face