Seiko TV Timer in Octopussy
Higgins
GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
As I have had another discussion with a collector, I thought, that it may make sense to share the info, that I have regarding this watch:
We can see the Seiko TV Timer in Octopussy, but infact, the watch in the movie is a prototype:
It was the Suwa Seikosha watch with a Seiko Label on it.
Suwa Seikosha is a sub-brand from Seiko and Epson and you can see, that it was not one of the later sold Seiko TV-Timers ref. T001-5019 or the rarer T001-5000.
If you watch the buttons of the screen-seen watches, you may see the differences:
The watch, that can be seen in the movie has 4 buttons of the same kind and size at the sides, the later TV-Timers don't
I own both of these watches but none of them can be seen in Octopussy.
Here is a pic of the mentioned Suwa Seikosha prototype, this is the correct one:
The text, that can be found here, is totally wrong albeit the author and self-proclaimed expert should know better (from me
)
Another proof, that Dell Deaton prefers to follow his own theories and not to the facts.
quote: JamesBondwatches.com
"James Bond Watches is pleased to confirm model T001-5019 as the "Liquid Crystal TV Seiko" featured in Octopussy. This is the watch shown receiving a closed-circuit television signal during the Q-Branch field operation scenes, then used by Roger Moore as Agent 007 to track Octopussy's kidnapping throughout the climax of the film.
The pictures included with this Blog Post show one of the two original wristwatches provided by Seiko for the Octopussy film production.
It is owned by Doug Redenius, Vice-President of the Ian Fleming Foundation. Last month, when the watch was on display along with other EON Productions film artifacts at the Detroit Boat Show, jamesbondwatches.com was granted special access to his Liquid Crystal TV Seiko T001-5019 for the purpose of capturing these exclusive photographs.
Collectors have often been frustrated by a lack of specific model number to go by in seeking acquisitions. Thanks to Mr. Redneius and the Ian Fleming Foundation, the uncertainty has ended."
UPDATE 4th may 2009:
It took a while to get permission to quote from an email from Doug Redenius:
"Hello M.....,
I have been informed of what's being written regarding the watch and when it was on display earlier in the year in Detroit.
The simple truth is this....the watch that I have was used in some capacity during the production of "Octopussy". We have no way of knowing how it was used, or whether it was filmed close up at any point, but it was used during production. After filming finished, the watch was given away in a contest here in America. One would simply fill out an entry form and mail it in to win.
Several years ago I was doing an event when a man came up to me and told me a good friend of his had won this watch back in 1983. The man had died, so I contacted his family to see if they still had the watch, they did, I bought it.
Now you know exactly what I told Mr. Deaton. The people at the Detroit show made up the sign they used during the time the watch was on display earlier this year. I did not make the sign up, nor did I provide any information that would go counter to how I actually acquired the watch.
I can tell you, however, the producers of the Bond franchise do have an 'identical' watch in their archive just like the one I have in my private collection.
Hope this answers your question.
Best always!
Doug Redenius"
We can see the Seiko TV Timer in Octopussy, but infact, the watch in the movie is a prototype:
It was the Suwa Seikosha watch with a Seiko Label on it.
Suwa Seikosha is a sub-brand from Seiko and Epson and you can see, that it was not one of the later sold Seiko TV-Timers ref. T001-5019 or the rarer T001-5000.
If you watch the buttons of the screen-seen watches, you may see the differences:
The watch, that can be seen in the movie has 4 buttons of the same kind and size at the sides, the later TV-Timers don't
I own both of these watches but none of them can be seen in Octopussy.
Here is a pic of the mentioned Suwa Seikosha prototype, this is the correct one:
The text, that can be found here, is totally wrong albeit the author and self-proclaimed expert should know better (from me
)Another proof, that Dell Deaton prefers to follow his own theories and not to the facts.
quote: JamesBondwatches.com
"James Bond Watches is pleased to confirm model T001-5019 as the "Liquid Crystal TV Seiko" featured in Octopussy. This is the watch shown receiving a closed-circuit television signal during the Q-Branch field operation scenes, then used by Roger Moore as Agent 007 to track Octopussy's kidnapping throughout the climax of the film.
The pictures included with this Blog Post show one of the two original wristwatches provided by Seiko for the Octopussy film production.
It is owned by Doug Redenius, Vice-President of the Ian Fleming Foundation. Last month, when the watch was on display along with other EON Productions film artifacts at the Detroit Boat Show, jamesbondwatches.com was granted special access to his Liquid Crystal TV Seiko T001-5019 for the purpose of capturing these exclusive photographs.
Collectors have often been frustrated by a lack of specific model number to go by in seeking acquisitions. Thanks to Mr. Redneius and the Ian Fleming Foundation, the uncertainty has ended."
UPDATE 4th may 2009:
It took a while to get permission to quote from an email from Doug Redenius:
"Hello M.....,
I have been informed of what's being written regarding the watch and when it was on display earlier in the year in Detroit.
The simple truth is this....the watch that I have was used in some capacity during the production of "Octopussy". We have no way of knowing how it was used, or whether it was filmed close up at any point, but it was used during production. After filming finished, the watch was given away in a contest here in America. One would simply fill out an entry form and mail it in to win.
Several years ago I was doing an event when a man came up to me and told me a good friend of his had won this watch back in 1983. The man had died, so I contacted his family to see if they still had the watch, they did, I bought it.
Now you know exactly what I told Mr. Deaton. The people at the Detroit show made up the sign they used during the time the watch was on display earlier this year. I did not make the sign up, nor did I provide any information that would go counter to how I actually acquired the watch.
I can tell you, however, the producers of the Bond franchise do have an 'identical' watch in their archive just like the one I have in my private collection.
Hope this answers your question.
Best always!
Doug Redenius"
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Comments
thanks for the info, i don't have this watch and but would like to own one, now that were going digital in the U.S i won't have any use for it other than have it for display. still though these watches are beautiful.
037
we have digital aerial tv here as well, but believe me, not a single collector really wanted to use these as a TV even when analog TV was possible here.
You need a seperate receiver and the pic is not really H-D 8-)
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Believe me, I understand what you are saying about the self proclaimed expert. It seems, he is more concerned with being proclaimed an expert than really knowing about the watches.
It seems, however, you are very knowledgeable about the Roger Moore era LCD Seiko watches. I hope you will write an article about them for AJB.
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
your praise means a lot to me, but my knowledge is only peanuts compared to your research on James Bond watches.
For future investigation, does anybody know, when the shooting of Octopussy started and ended, the Seiko numbering system may be helpful in matching these dates.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
thank you for your info and the great picture. Did these two watches come in different boxes? I've seen gold and silver boxes on ebay though I didn't pay that much attention to the watches as it was obvious that they were not exactly the same type as in the film.
Or does the box colour refer to the TV system, like gold for NTSC and silver for PAL? Do you know if the T001-5000 was available for PAL? I guess it is the earlier design of the two and perhaps was only available in Japan and the U.S.?
I mean, most of the boxes, which are shown in silver turn out to be golden colour in real life. Simply ask the sellers for the real colour and you'll get one reply: gold.
The T001-5000 came in a silver-coloured box and the pouch for the receiver also has been silver. The 5019 came in gold only.
To my knowledge the 5000 was only available in Asia (the info, that it has been only available in Tokyo and Osaka seems wrong to me as my papers are stamped from a Hong Kong seller), they have only been a NTSC version.
I have heard some rumours, that there was a PAL version of the 5019 receiver, but never have seen a receiver, that worked with PAL.
I am still in touch with a former representative from Seiko Germany who insists, that Seiko Germany could convert PAL receivers with a patch, but I have never seen such.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Bondtoys,
Thanks for the endorsement. While I have done a lot of research related to the mechanical watches of James Bond, I have not done very much concerning the Seiko LCD digital watches of Bond. I suppose it's because I'm not that interested in that area.
However, you seem very interested in this area so much so that you are delving much deeper than most. It's that type of genuine interest that results in an informative article that your fellow Bond collectors would be interested in.
Moreover, I do not need to be considered the resident expert on Bond watches. I have garnered enough real world important titles and accolades in my life to feel secure in who I am.
I do take exception to people who try to pass themselves off as experts when I know full well they don't know their a$$ from their elbow. You, in my estimation, are not one of them.
The fact that I am not interested in the LCD Seikos to the degree that I want to research them does not mean I would not be interested in reading about them. On the contrary, I would prefer it if somone like yourself did the hard work and made it easy for me to find the correct watches.
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Actually, I disagree, Bondtoys does not know his a$$ from his elbow. But in this case he actually seems to be very knowledgeable on the subject of the Bond Seikos. I say get an article up my good man, and have a virtual if slightly patronising pat on the back and nod of approval from me {[]
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
If I say, that the screen used watch is obviously NOT the one from this article - so be it.
Your doubts hurt me, neverless I am happy, that you have had to work hard to find myself to be 100% correct
Doug Redenius is usually a good and reliable source, so, I'd rather assume, that Mr. Deaton was so flashed by his own expertise, that he did not carefully listen, when DR said that this is a watch, which has been on the market following the screen-used prototype
And I have never seen such a Suwa Seikosha Prototype for sale, not even a pic besides the one from the mentioned article in my post.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Never doubted you for a second my good man, I just fancied watching Octopussy last night. Must be 15 years since I last saw it. I also wanted to confirm that the other self-indulgent, self-promoting sensationalist reporting (from now on reffered to as DellDeatonism), was just that.
A short update:
I have received the permisssion from Doug Redenius to quote from a previous email to me:
"Hello M.....,
I have been informed of what's being written regarding the watch and when it was on display earlier in the year in Detroit.
The simple truth is this....the watch that I have was used in some capacity during the production of "Octopussy". We have no way of knowing how it was used, or whether it was filmed close up at any point, but it was used during production. After filming finished, the watch was given away in a contest here in America. One would simply fill out an entry form and mail it in to win.
Several years ago I was doing an event when a man came up to me and told me a good friend of his had won this watch back in 1983. The man had died, so I contacted his family to see if they still had the watch, they did, I bought it.
Now you know exactly what I told Mr. Deaton. The people at the Detroit show made up the sign they used during the time the watch was on display earlier this year. I did not make the sign up, nor did I provide any information that would go counter to how I actually acquired the watch.
I can tell you, however, the producers of the Bond franchise do have an 'identical' watch in their archive just like the one I have in my private collection.
Hope this answers your question.
Best always!
Doug Redenius"
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
It is absolutely plausible, that a Seiko TV-Timer T001-5019 may have been given to the higher powers, especially to Cubby Broccoli.
Cubby was a big watch fan and all sponsors of the 007 franchise have been extraordinarily generous, - just like Cubby himself.
I know from a specially dedicated golden Seiko watch, which has given to him from Seiko after Moonraker, though that watch has never been in the movie.
So, the fact, that such a watch is in the archive of the Broccoli family, does not necessarily mean, that it can be seen in the movie.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The watch in question carries the serial number 330 on the caseback.
Seiko has an identification system for manufacturing dates:
The first digit of the serial number leads to the year:
so 3 can be 1973, 1983 or 1993. The T-001 has been made in the 1980s, so, it means 1983.
Now the month, which is coded in the second digit of the serial number:
1-9 = Jan - September, October = O, November = N, December = D
so, the first 2 digits "33" lead us to March 1983 production date.
So, we see another pointer, that the mentioned story is made-up.
As shooting for Octopussy was between August 1982 to January 1983, this particular watch did not even exist, when the movie has been shot.
And Mr. Deaton dragled this forum, the owner and the team constantly over the last couple of days in his very own way over his blog.
He also could not stay away from constantly mentioning Donald Grant, Asp9mm and myself by our real names there, his webpage has been suspended for that reason:
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!