Mick,
The DAF pistol you are referring to from the deleted scene in which it is used to kill Shady Tree by Mr.Wint & Mr. Kid is just a standard Crossman Model MK I .22 cal CO2 Air Pistol.
This was the First Variant with adjustable power and was made between 1966-1980.
It is powered by one Co Powerlet and it weighs in at 43 oz.
The prop Department simply added the “Silencer” with the extendable flag.
Notice that by the time this photo was taken that black electrical tape was used between the silencer and the pistol.
Ed
Here is the standard pistol:
Here is a photo-shopped image of the pistol with the silencer added for comparison.
Hi Guys!!!
Here are the more pics we can use to try and locate the base firearm.
7289 I’m hoping you’ll follow thru and help us out on this.
THANKS!!
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
Notice in this shot that the small firing pin block is still in the barrel. This part would swing towards and block the hole chambering the round.
Here is a good photo to show the comparative size in relation to a PPK.
The other items in the photo are the Piton, the original “Bleeper” from FRWL and the attache’ case ammo tubes.
All photos copyright by Ed Maggiani / TheSpyBoys.com 2001
Can you supply some shots of the piton gun with the grips off, and of the bottom of the grip where the lanyard ring is mounted. The lanyard ring itself is from a Webley revolver
that crossman pistol with the big chunky silencer canister..
in the deleted scene.. it was a real gun .. or converted weapon..
i take it the flag came out the bottom slot / hole.. and the round fired from the silencer hole nearer the top of the canister...
its a very thick and bulcky silencer.. if that i indeed what its meant to be...
has anyone ever seen the deleted scene where this trick gun was used... i have seen stills which survived of it somewere..
also wish there was some archeive footage of the original Duel from TMWTGG .. of Bond using the thermos Bomb.... and also the possibility of using a roket firing NIKON camera with a poison ejector built in also.. against Scaramanga.. again i saw pictures somwere of this..and i know a little makes it into the teaser trailer
From that photoshop mockup it looks like most of the parts have been found on the DAF piton gun. If someone is doing a run of the 'custom' barrels or a full prop I'd be interested in buying one one of the piton guns to show with the BMW.
Can you supply some shots of the piton gun with the grips off, and of the bottom of the grip where the lanyard ring is mounted. The lanyard ring itself is from a Webley revolver
7289,
Nope...sorry. These were all the photos I took. In fact, these may be the only photos that exist...except for the photo of it in THE INCREDIBLE WORLD OF 007 by Lee Phieffer
With Desmond's passing I'm guessing that EON got all these props back and they have been put back into storage.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
Well, I looked through my library, and am 90% sure that the base pistol was made by Star. Won't be able to tell much more without a shot of the prop without the handles. It's a pretty interesting construction job at any rate, it's sure to be the only one - that is for sure!!!!
Doubt we'll ever see it without the handles. I wish I had enough of a mind to have taken several more photos...with a ruler in the photo, with grips on, with grips off, etc, etc....
Which Star model are you referring to? Can you post a pic? If not, can you send it to me via email and I'll post it.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
Mick,
The deleted scene in which Mr.Wint & Mr.Kid assassinate Shady Tree is on the Special Edition Disc 2 of Diamonds Are Forever under…naturally, “DELETED SCENES”
Here are 2 screen captures showing the gun. As you can see…it’s the same gun as the photo I posted.
it’s NOT, as you stated, “in the deleted scene.. it was a real gun .. or converted weapon.."
We get the impression that the gun is “fired” because we see a lot of sparks “shoot” out of the gun however; it no more fired anything inasmuch as the Moonraker Wrist Dartgun only appeared to “shoot” a dart.
The large tube is made to represent a silencer but then we see it was just where the flag popped out of.
By the way, the flag doesn’t spring out of the front. You can see, in the photo of Desmond holding it, that there is a slot in the front of the silencer barrel as well as below it. These type of trick “BANG” guns usually have the flag folded in half then rolled into a slot. When the mechanism is triggered the spike rotates to an open position and two metal rods inserted into the bottom seam of the flag cause it to fall open.
You can see in the screen capture that the flag is folded and that there are two rods in the bottom seam of the flag.
Also notice that I have circled what appears to be a pin upon which the spike rotates.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
The particular shot (no pun intended) of Shady being killed must have been a powder charge being ignited electrically off camera by a pyro-technician (similar to the Wrist Dartgun shooting the dart)
The reason I say this is because the Crossman pistol could not have been adapted to fire a blank. To even try would have been too dangerous for the actor holding the prop.
In the 1930's, marksmen were hired to fire LIVE rounds at the actors. There are two particularly scary scenes in my favorite James Cagney films in which a marksman fires a full-auto Thompson submachine gun demolishing a corner part of a wall where Jimmy's head had been just seconds before!!! That film was 1931's PUBLIC ENEMY.
The other time is in my all-time favorite ANGELS WITH DIRTY FACES, in that film Jimmy faces a torrent of machine gun fire (again from a Thompson) that shatters a window directly above him showering him with broken (real) glass. It was that film that made Cagney realize how he was literally risking his life as the bullets hit the glass only seconds after he moved his head.
For safety’s sake, some guns were converted to fire ONLY blanks. Bullet hits were simulated by either squib charges (electrically fired explosives) or by a marksman shooting dirt charges that simulate bullet hits as in the opening pre-title credit scene from THUNDERBALL when we see bullets hitting the Aston Martins bulletproof shield.
In Goldfinger Glycerin shots were used to simulate machine gun bullets hitting the windshield of the Aston Martin. Glycerin and a small black circle were fitted inside a capsules which were then fired through an air rifle. As the capsules hits the windshield they burst open simulating a bullet hitting a bulletproof windshield.
Boy!! That was a looong way to say “I agree” LOL
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
nah, very informative ed, didn't know about the glycerin pellets.
is it true the db5 machine guns were simply oxy-cytaline being ignited?
although not a huge fan, i always think the old films with real action in are quite amazing. the car passing in front of the steam train, and the houses falling down while an actor stands still as the window falls over him etc, great stuff.
the old timers are the best ones, and imo one of the funniest films i've seen in one with laurel and hardy, where they try delivering a piano. can't remember for the life of me what i was called.
apparently (way before i was born) my grandad had been to see L&H live, and on leaving the theatre, pop realised a tyre on his jag was flat. so theres pop knocking the spinner off, and out a stage door comes L&H, and hardy lifts his hat, scratches his head and says the infamous "thats another fine mess you've gotten into".
poor old pop simply replied "you say one more word and this'll (the rubber mallet he was holding) go down yer throat"
dont think pop suffered fools, and comics gladly. lol.
just realised i've completely and totally gone off subject. woops. )
) i like it when people sometimes drift off the subject .. it shows they are very much into what they are saying and start rambeling LOL .. but its deffo not a bad thing in any way ..
I may have a go at making this trick pistol .. with the silencer and flag etc.... if I can pick up one of these old cross man pistols.....
not impossible.. i did manage to obtain for my collection an original vintage Walther LP-53 Connery air pistol.. which i never thought i would ever have in my collection .. to the point where i was going to make a dummy display replica from scratch ... no joke. simmilar to what I am going to have to do with the DAF piton Gun., now there is no chance i will be able to get the parts for that .. as if the bottom part came up for sale I am sure.. Ed would beat me to it ) :v
the old timers are the best ones, and imo one of the funniest films i've seen in one with laurel and hardy, where they try delivering a piano. can't remember for the life of me what i was called.
just found out, its called 'the music box'. priceless.
This is a very poor image, taken ironically from Boothroyd's The Handgun, I am sorry, but this is all I had at home right now featuring a Star pistol.
As you may not be able to see, there are two pins holding the trigger to the trigger bar, as the prop has. I reviewed the image prior to posting and only the bottom pin is really visable, so you'll have to take my word there is another pin above it. As the image is of an early model Star, the frame contour forward of the trigger guard is much different. A later model pistol based on Browning/FN 1903 would have been more common and more likely to be used in making up the prop.
It possible, that the double pin arrangement in the trigger was used by other arms companies, as I said earlier, there were tons upon tons of these small Spainish autos made in the early 20th century. Cutting one up for a prop would not have been any kind of sin against a good firearm. Without pictures of the piton pistol sans grips we may never be able to do more than speculate.
I'll keep an eye out for a better image, and will post them.
7289,
Awesome!!! ANY reference is good reference. I'm sure that one day, we'll run across the exact model now that we have an idea of what we're looking for. Good job!!!
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
Found a better, but smaller, pic of the same pistol.
Interestingly, the description mentioned that several were sold to France with Lanyard rings..hmmm
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
WELL…I think we’re getting closer!!!
7289...Here's that Browning copy I think you suggested...pretty close. Even the wood texture and grain on the grip is similiar. Grip screw is pretty close too!
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
Unceta Esperanza Y Cia Model 1911 "Victoria" with French import marks: 1912: By the early twentieth century there were many companies in the Basque region of Northern Spain making firearms. Foreign patents were not enforced at that time in Spain, so many of the guns produced were copies of patented designs from other countries.
One of the most widely copied guns was the 25 calibre FN Browning 1906, and in Spain they many scaled-up copies in 32 calibre.
One of the better guns of this sort, produced in Spain before World War One, was the Model 1911 Victoria made by Esperanza y Unceta, the company that was to become Astra Unceta.
was it possibly the manufacturer of this gun who made the DAF piton gun for the film. Or was it deffinetly made by the props department and made up from sourced parts ?
the wooden grip on the DAF piton gun does look like its custom made to fit the gun, as a piton gun. and possibly did not exist on the gun when it was an actual gun before converted. and they have used the same screw in the handle and moved the position of where it was placed.
As I say I am making a prototype replica, and I may put together somthing over the weekend if I have some free time, in between other props so hopefully upload somthing next week, if I can make a display replica. I am going to make the barrel pivot and open on the frame, like the original DAF piton gun. was possibly going to build into it; a a pin / rod which would stick out slightly each side of the barrel similar to the GOLDENEYE piton gun so the pin could be pulled back with a springloaded function behind it and lock, so it could actualy fire the piton, but not to any dangerous degree or power. As I say this will just be a display replica, But if some of you like the finished item then I could make some more depending on this first one. Wish me luck
I hope Ed. you can source the original frame work used on the DAF piton gun. as you have the exact barrel so would be fantastic if you could put together the perfect replica, Plus your years of searching and sourcing this particular prop is deserving of finding the correct and exact frame.
Love the poster. Fine work. I wonder if Laurel and hardy's hats could decapitate a target )
since we are on the subject of Converted prop guns and weapons
and props from the Bond films.
ok we are talking about the DAF piton gun
spoke about the Crossman ''Trick'' flag pistol from DAF
also that Connery held an Air Pistol in FRWL promo shots.
so a trend developing with air guns in the old Bond films
I am pretty sure that in GOLDFINGER the tranquilizer gun that Bond is shot with on the lazer table was a vintage ''webley air gun''
does anyone know what the grappling / climbing gun was in GOLDFINGER that Bond used when he came out the water in the Pre titles. Ed. what happened to this prop was that in EON's archive or was it a throw away prop ?
also the Octopussy Tranquilizer guns that her girls used that fired feathered darts. snap barrel target pistols with silencers
it would be interesting to know how many of the Bond props and gadgets that have went A.W.O.L. after the film was released and ho wmany survived to this day. I know most of the iconic gadgets still exist in the EON props archive. like what happened to the MOONRAKER ''OO7' camera and Cigarette case safe cracker? or even Rosa Klebb's original lace shoe which Lotta Lenya wore etc
Comments
YOUR mission, should you choose to accept it.....LOL
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
PS: Trust me...that was just a quick cut & paste but THANKS!!!
the spyboys Facebook page
well sort of .. but yea thats for the observations also 7289 .. great stuff
www.freewebs.com/scaramangasgoldengun
www.facebook.com/QuartermasterProps
The DAF pistol you are referring to from the deleted scene in which it is used to kill Shady Tree by Mr.Wint & Mr. Kid is just a standard Crossman Model MK I .22 cal CO2 Air Pistol.
This was the First Variant with adjustable power and was made between 1966-1980.
It is powered by one Co Powerlet and it weighs in at 43 oz.
The prop Department simply added the “Silencer” with the extendable flag.
Notice that by the time this photo was taken that black electrical tape was used between the silencer and the pistol.
Ed
Here is the standard pistol:
Here is a photo-shopped image of the pistol with the silencer added for comparison.
the spyboys Facebook page
Here are the more pics we can use to try and locate the base firearm.
7289 I’m hoping you’ll follow thru and help us out on this.
THANKS!!
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
Notice in this shot that the small firing pin block is still in the barrel. This part would swing towards and block the hole chambering the round.
Here is a good photo to show the comparative size in relation to a PPK.
The other items in the photo are the Piton, the original “Bleeper” from FRWL and the attache’ case ammo tubes.
All photos copyright by Ed Maggiani / TheSpyBoys.com 2001
the spyboys Facebook page
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
Can you supply some shots of the piton gun with the grips off, and of the bottom of the grip where the lanyard ring is mounted. The lanyard ring itself is from a Webley revolver
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
in the deleted scene.. it was a real gun .. or converted weapon..
i take it the flag came out the bottom slot / hole.. and the round fired from the silencer hole nearer the top of the canister...
its a very thick and bulcky silencer.. if that i indeed what its meant to be...
has anyone ever seen the deleted scene where this trick gun was used... i have seen stills which survived of it somewere..
also wish there was some archeive footage of the original Duel from TMWTGG .. of Bond using the thermos Bomb.... and also the possibility of using a roket firing NIKON camera with a poison ejector built in also.. against Scaramanga.. again i saw pictures somwere of this..and i know a little makes it into the teaser trailer
www.freewebs.com/scaramangasgoldengun
www.facebook.com/QuartermasterProps
--Brian
7289,
Nope...sorry. These were all the photos I took. In fact, these may be the only photos that exist...except for the photo of it in THE INCREDIBLE WORLD OF 007 by Lee Phieffer
With Desmond's passing I'm guessing that EON got all these props back and they have been put back into storage.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
Oops!
I thought you had custody of the piton pistol!!!!
Well, I looked through my library, and am 90% sure that the base pistol was made by Star. Won't be able to tell much more without a shot of the prop without the handles. It's a pretty interesting construction job at any rate, it's sure to be the only one - that is for sure!!!!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
in MY possession...Don't I WISH!!! LOL
Doubt we'll ever see it without the handles. I wish I had enough of a mind to have taken several more photos...with a ruler in the photo, with grips on, with grips off, etc, etc....
Which Star model are you referring to? Can you post a pic? If not, can you send it to me via email and I'll post it.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
The deleted scene in which Mr.Wint & Mr.Kid assassinate Shady Tree is on the Special Edition Disc 2 of Diamonds Are Forever under…naturally, “DELETED SCENES”
Here are 2 screen captures showing the gun. As you can see…it’s the same gun as the photo I posted.
it’s NOT, as you stated, “in the deleted scene.. it was a real gun .. or converted weapon.."
We get the impression that the gun is “fired” because we see a lot of sparks “shoot” out of the gun however; it no more fired anything inasmuch as the Moonraker Wrist Dartgun only appeared to “shoot” a dart.
The large tube is made to represent a silencer but then we see it was just where the flag popped out of.
By the way, the flag doesn’t spring out of the front. You can see, in the photo of Desmond holding it, that there is a slot in the front of the silencer barrel as well as below it. These type of trick “BANG” guns usually have the flag folded in half then rolled into a slot. When the mechanism is triggered the spike rotates to an open position and two metal rods inserted into the bottom seam of the flag cause it to fall open.
You can see in the screen capture that the flag is folded and that there are two rods in the bottom seam of the flag.
Also notice that I have circled what appears to be a pin upon which the spike rotates.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
sound reasonable?
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
The particular shot (no pun intended) of Shady being killed must have been a powder charge being ignited electrically off camera by a pyro-technician (similar to the Wrist Dartgun shooting the dart)
The reason I say this is because the Crossman pistol could not have been adapted to fire a blank. To even try would have been too dangerous for the actor holding the prop.
In the 1930's, marksmen were hired to fire LIVE rounds at the actors. There are two particularly scary scenes in my favorite James Cagney films in which a marksman fires a full-auto Thompson submachine gun demolishing a corner part of a wall where Jimmy's head had been just seconds before!!! That film was 1931's PUBLIC ENEMY.
The other time is in my all-time favorite ANGELS WITH DIRTY FACES, in that film Jimmy faces a torrent of machine gun fire (again from a Thompson) that shatters a window directly above him showering him with broken (real) glass. It was that film that made Cagney realize how he was literally risking his life as the bullets hit the glass only seconds after he moved his head.
For safety’s sake, some guns were converted to fire ONLY blanks. Bullet hits were simulated by either squib charges (electrically fired explosives) or by a marksman shooting dirt charges that simulate bullet hits as in the opening pre-title credit scene from THUNDERBALL when we see bullets hitting the Aston Martins bulletproof shield.
In Goldfinger Glycerin shots were used to simulate machine gun bullets hitting the windshield of the Aston Martin. Glycerin and a small black circle were fitted inside a capsules which were then fired through an air rifle. As the capsules hits the windshield they burst open simulating a bullet hitting a bulletproof windshield.
Boy!! That was a looong way to say “I agree” LOL
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
is it true the db5 machine guns were simply oxy-cytaline being ignited?
although not a huge fan, i always think the old films with real action in are quite amazing. the car passing in front of the steam train, and the houses falling down while an actor stands still as the window falls over him etc, great stuff.
the old timers are the best ones, and imo one of the funniest films i've seen in one with laurel and hardy, where they try delivering a piano. can't remember for the life of me what i was called.
apparently (way before i was born) my grandad had been to see L&H live, and on leaving the theatre, pop realised a tyre on his jag was flat. so theres pop knocking the spinner off, and out a stage door comes L&H, and hardy lifts his hat, scratches his head and says the infamous "thats another fine mess you've gotten into".
poor old pop simply replied "you say one more word and this'll (the rubber mallet he was holding) go down yer throat"
dont think pop suffered fools, and comics gladly. lol.
just realised i've completely and totally gone off subject. woops.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
I may have a go at making this trick pistol .. with the silencer and flag etc.... if I can pick up one of these old cross man pistols.....
not impossible.. i did manage to obtain for my collection an original vintage Walther LP-53 Connery air pistol.. which i never thought i would ever have in my collection .. to the point where i was going to make a dummy display replica from scratch ... no joke. simmilar to what I am going to have to do with the DAF piton Gun., now there is no chance i will be able to get the parts for that .. as if the bottom part came up for sale I am sure.. Ed would beat me to it
www.freewebs.com/scaramangasgoldengun
www.facebook.com/QuartermasterProps
How so?
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
I do preffer the Marx Brothers .. when it comes to it..
www.freewebs.com/scaramangasgoldengun
www.facebook.com/QuartermasterProps
just found out, its called 'the music box'. priceless.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
If you haven't seen it...go do so. You won't regret it.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
This is a very poor image, taken ironically from Boothroyd's The Handgun, I am sorry, but this is all I had at home right now featuring a Star pistol.
As you may not be able to see, there are two pins holding the trigger to the trigger bar, as the prop has. I reviewed the image prior to posting and only the bottom pin is really visable, so you'll have to take my word there is another pin above it. As the image is of an early model Star, the frame contour forward of the trigger guard is much different. A later model pistol based on Browning/FN 1903 would have been more common and more likely to be used in making up the prop.
It possible, that the double pin arrangement in the trigger was used by other arms companies, as I said earlier, there were tons upon tons of these small Spainish autos made in the early 20th century. Cutting one up for a prop would not have been any kind of sin against a good firearm. Without pictures of the piton pistol sans grips we may never be able to do more than speculate.
I'll keep an eye out for a better image, and will post them.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Awesome!!! ANY reference is good reference. I'm sure that one day, we'll run across the exact model now that we have an idea of what we're looking for. Good job!!!
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
Interestingly, the description mentioned that several were sold to France with Lanyard rings..hmmm
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
www.freewebs.com/scaramangasgoldengun
www.facebook.com/QuartermasterProps
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
7289...Here's that Browning copy I think you suggested...pretty close. Even the wood texture and grain on the grip is similiar. Grip screw is pretty close too!
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
Unceta Esperanza Y Cia Model 1911 "Victoria" with French import marks: 1912: By the early twentieth century there were many companies in the Basque region of Northern Spain making firearms. Foreign patents were not enforced at that time in Spain, so many of the guns produced were copies of patented designs from other countries.
One of the most widely copied guns was the 25 calibre FN Browning 1906, and in Spain they many scaled-up copies in 32 calibre.
One of the better guns of this sort, produced in Spain before World War One, was the Model 1911 Victoria made by Esperanza y Unceta, the company that was to become Astra Unceta.
the spyboys Facebook page
REALLY? Well, here's the movie poster to prove it's out there...LOL
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
the wooden grip on the DAF piton gun does look like its custom made to fit the gun, as a piton gun. and possibly did not exist on the gun when it was an actual gun before converted. and they have used the same screw in the handle and moved the position of where it was placed.
As I say I am making a prototype replica, and I may put together somthing over the weekend if I have some free time, in between other props so hopefully upload somthing next week, if I can make a display replica. I am going to make the barrel pivot and open on the frame, like the original DAF piton gun. was possibly going to build into it; a a pin / rod which would stick out slightly each side of the barrel similar to the GOLDENEYE piton gun so the pin could be pulled back with a springloaded function behind it and lock, so it could actualy fire the piton, but not to any dangerous degree or power. As I say this will just be a display replica, But if some of you like the finished item then I could make some more depending on this first one. Wish me luck
I hope Ed. you can source the original frame work used on the DAF piton gun. as you have the exact barrel so would be fantastic if you could put together the perfect replica, Plus your years of searching and sourcing this particular prop is deserving of finding the correct and exact frame.
Love the poster. Fine work. I wonder if Laurel and hardy's hats could decapitate a target
www.freewebs.com/scaramangasgoldengun
www.facebook.com/QuartermasterProps
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
and props from the Bond films.
ok we are talking about the DAF piton gun
spoke about the Crossman ''Trick'' flag pistol from DAF
also that Connery held an Air Pistol in FRWL promo shots.
so a trend developing with air guns in the old Bond films
I am pretty sure that in GOLDFINGER the tranquilizer gun that Bond is shot with on the lazer table was a vintage ''webley air gun''
does anyone know what the grappling / climbing gun was in GOLDFINGER that Bond used when he came out the water in the Pre titles. Ed. what happened to this prop was that in EON's archive or was it a throw away prop ?
also the Octopussy Tranquilizer guns that her girls used that fired feathered darts. snap barrel target pistols with silencers
it would be interesting to know how many of the Bond props and gadgets that have went A.W.O.L. after the film was released and ho wmany survived to this day. I know most of the iconic gadgets still exist in the EON props archive. like what happened to the MOONRAKER ''OO7' camera and Cigarette case safe cracker? or even Rosa Klebb's original lace shoe which Lotta Lenya wore etc
www.freewebs.com/scaramangasgoldengun
www.facebook.com/QuartermasterProps