Just for the record, I don'y think anyone really knows for sure what pistol Hitler used on himself, but I read that his personal choice in a handgun was a .25 caliber Walther. Whatever that goon used it was "good riddance".
However, if it was a PPK - maybe oo7 was on the job!!!!
IMO, the influence of Bond Films on "real world" police and military agency firearm purchases would be zero. So if a Walther design fails or succeeds it is likely due to its cost and performance.
Bond's use of the P5 was something of a glich. I always suspected that the use of the P5 by both Moore and Connery in the same year was no coincidence, but have nothing to prove it.
It's interesting how many times the idea that Bond should carry a 'nice looking' or 'good looking' gun come up. It makes him sound like a dandy or a rake, rather than the deadly assassin/saboteur that he is.
The original Bond in Ian Fleming's novels did not strike me as a man who placed much emphasis on looks as far as his gun is concerned. After all, in Casino Royale, Fleming refered to Bond keeping a Colt .38 with a sawn off barrel under his pillow. He also carried a Beretta 418. Some may find that this little gun has an old world charm of its own, but it's certainly not what a dandy would call a 'good looking' gun - particularly after Bond had attacked it with a file. [In the early Bond novels, the spy seemed to enjoy multilating his firearms.]
Fleming only improved on the aesthetic qualities of Bond's gun choices in Dr No, in the famous scene when he received his PPK and the S&W Centennial. Both are fine looking guns, and Bond refrained from his usual practice of attacking them with a saw or file. Yet, strangely, he did not take to them in the first instance. [Particularly the Centennial, which is in my opinion the better looking fo the two. He never carried this little gun again in the novels.] This is in character. His equipment has to prove themselves based on function, not on looks alone.
And so we come to the question of what a modern day Bond would, or should, choose as his personal firearm. We have been so used to Bond carrying a Walther pistol that most of us dismissed Bond using a Glock as his personal firearm out of hand. But this is not in character, particularly the original Bond, and Daniel Craig's Bond. An agent as practical as Bond would not dismiss a Glock out of hand if it is the best weapon that fulfills his needs.
Having said that, Bond would probably not carry a Glock as his - for the lack of a better term - CCW pistol. It is fairly chunky and blocky. You would need a bit more effort to conceal such a pistol. Given the early firearm choices of Bond's, it seems clear that he puts a premium on concealment - particularly under a well-cut suit. Modern BGs can hide even a MP5K under a suit jacket cut wide at the shoulders but they look eactly like what they are - dangerous men armed to the teeth. Not quite the effect Bond would go for. So, it is unlikely he would go for anything larger than a Glock 19 - i.e. anything more than 5" high, and very likely settle for something at most 4.5" high. A PPK would do nicely then.
There's some discussion of calibre as well. Well, a 7.65mm round doesn't go like a brick through a glass window, no matter which loading you use. Many consider a 9mm Parabellum to be the minimum in terms of power. [Personally, I think a J-frame revolver with 148-gr .38 Special wadcutters is the essence, but that's just me.] However, we must remember that what Bond needs is a CCW pistol that he would only use in the extremis, and then, mostly for close range work. An example was the shootout at the opera house in QoS. In such a situation, well trained shooters can make even the .22 LR deadly. The Mossad, Israeli air marshals and commandoes made good use of .22 Beretta 70s in the 1960's and 1970's. So, the 7.65mm doesn't strike me as a poor choice after all for what it is meant for. Again, a PPK would seem to do rather nicely!
But if I were to choose a firearm other than a PPK for our interpid agent, I would have him consider the new SiG P238 .380 ACP pistol. It is barely 4" high and 6" long, has a magazine capacity of 6 rounds, and from what I hear, is reliable and accurate. And, of course, it fires a larger calibre round. This gun should give the PPK a run for its money.
I think tooling up the real-world/new-era Bond is trickier now that the image has changed. Connery was the Bond of the Books and as such the Walther PPK was perfect. But as the parameters have changed, so too must Bond's equipment. Bond is now more of an action-hero (love it or hate it!) and the situations he gets in he now needs more real-world equipment. This was addressed with Brosnan's Bond, and the P99 made perfect sense, given that we are to believe Bond has a penchant for the Brand with the PPK, P5 and even the 7.62 target rifle in TLD.
I'm not personally a fan of the P99, I found it a bit toy-like and the stock/grips a bit short for my hands when I used one (the mag extension of the later PPK's was a touch of genius IMO), but then I'm old school having been issued with Browning Hi-Powers and Walther PP and PPK's in the army. Ten years of those and anything new will seem like a toy. Glocks are everywhere frankly because they're so damn good, but as ASP9mm points out, they're not Bond. Bond needs something a little more individual. Perhaps a future Q could actually build him a complete one-off which we can all speculate the derivitives of for a long time to come...
Amazon #1 Bestselling Author. If you enjoy crime, espionage, action and fast-moving thrillers follow this link:
I'm not clever enough to harass you like Bondtoys could, but have to disagree with those out there that would take the PPK from Bond and rob him of the last "trait" that his creator endowed upon him.
Prehaps there are better "real world" guns out there for Bond. But remember it was 007 that launched the Walther PPK from the ranks of top of the line but obscure pocket pistols to "iconic status" with other well known firearms like the Colt .45 or the Luger. To replace the PPK in Bond's mit would be just plain wrong.
I personally didn't care that Brosnan carried the P99, it was his tenure - and the absence of the PPK - that caused me to lose interest in the franchise, and actually NOT see DAD in the cinema. When DC took on the role, I found I could live with the P99 (and even purchased one) because his acting and gun handling reinspired my interest in the charecter ( Eva Green really helped alot too!). To discover later that DC had the PPK during the PTS bathroom fight in CR'06 was frosting on the cake.
Now that Bond has returned to the PPK in QOS, I really dread to think he might abandon it again. I could live with the P99 secreted in the Aston DBS, but returning to the PPK is a draw for me, and the series would be poorer for it's absence.
For Bond to be Bond there must be a British Actor wearing a Rolex, driving an Aston-Martin and packing a PPK (or .25 Beretta) without those "props" one might as well go see Jason Bourne or a Batman flick.
For those of you out there like me who are diehard firearms types, sure there are plently of pistols that work as well or better than the PPK, but this is a Bond film and Bond without a PPK is like John Wayne without his yellow handled Colt .45 and big loop carbine - the end result is just not as "funl".
So, I'm hoping that Bond sticks with the PPK for his personal firearm and continues to make use of "pick-up" handguns like the BHP in CR'06 and the two SIG's in QOS. If you want to insert your favorite pistol into the films, let the villian carry it - Bond can them dispatch the badguy with his super judo skills and turn the gun against it's owner....
But for goodness sake keep those boring Glocks, those evil looking SIGS and yes even those slick custom ASP pistols out of Bond's holster and let the PPK stay where it belong's - If you doubt me, just ask Ian Fleming.....
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
edited February 2010
I agree with you. I remember the elation I had when I found out that the PPK had been delivered on set. Then the deflation when I saw DC in that first released Bond-pose with the P99.
I have Gardners books for the P7 and ASP, but I would have loved to have seen Bond carrying those guns just once. Brosnans gun handling was awful, which is why we probably accepted the P99 with him as anything would have done. But that scene in TND in the hotel and with the PPK and silencer is pure brilliance. Craigs 99.9% correct gun handling was great, and the P99 with Craig gained respect, plus that silencer was a design classic. With QOS, I thought his pistol technique dropped just slightly, but the PPK was brilliant. It just begged for more explanantion as to why it was back, and that detracted from its retun for me. Again, the last scenes are pure PPK classic, and it returns in style. No way could he have concealed a P99 in the Tom Ford suits.
As for the future and Bond as a character. Really, only a production pistol could suit him as he loses them so readily. The world is not what it was, and having the same custom gun or a rarity like the P7 available in every stop over is stretching reality somewhat. The PPK performs better with every leap forward we get in ammunition development, and still holds it's own against the wonder guns we have now. I just hope that they keep stepping up the gun handling performances and don't let it slip to the Brosnan era. That was truly awful.
By the way, Fleming would have loved the ASP. It's history and design would have ticked all of Mr Flemings boxes, not to mention the accessories etc. It was one of the things Gardner got absolutely right, and recommended by Boothroyd himself. Pity Gardner cocked it up in his last book and got the details all wrong.
As usual I can't find much to argue about with you, as your observations talley with mine.
Have to say that while I admire the craftsmanship of the Asp pistol, I was never really taken with them "back in the day" when they were expensive but available. A good friend of mine purchased one and I got to spend some time with it. While it was very "slick" - right down to the teflon finish, ultimately it failed to preform for my pal and after an unsucessful trip back to the factory it was sold off. I had the chance to buy it then, but stupidly passed.
I actually owned the P7, but could never deal with the cocking mechanism, IMO it would have been better placed on the back of the grip. I sold it to another friend who used for heavily for years - and won many a combat shoot with it. So while both the Asp and the P7 appear to be fine pistols, my own expierence with the designs has been less than stellar.
Boothroyd's advice to Fleming with respect to Bond's pistols was largely ignored by Fleming. The big .357 Magnum never showed up in Bond's holster and the S&W Centennial, that "brutal, stumpy" revolver made only 1.5 appearances. Had Bond stuck with the S&W he would have been way ahead of the game, for after fading from production in the 1970's the Centnnial design is now considered to be a nearly universal classic and is prehaps in more holsters and pockets here in the USA than any other type of handgun.
I do remember reading Boothroyd recomending the stainless steel Chief's Special as the "ultimate" Bond gun, and certainly Boothroyd would have loved the S&W 640-1 in .357 just as well. But when it comes down to it, Fleming seemed to prefer a small automatic and his preferences spilled over into Bond's charecter, and old oo7 never really strayed from the pocket semi-auto pistol.
For me that chopped up old Beretta, a reliable and hopelessly underpowered little pistol is the ultimate Bond pistol. Interestingly the Beretta shares some similiarity with a S&W 39 that is cut down and morphed into the Asp, and the striker fired P7.
I must say that like Brosnan, I never warmed to Gardner's oo7 novels. I found the first tolerable, but the choice of pistols ludricrous - a very antique and obscure Browning (not the famous P35) and a Ruger .44 Super Blackhawk fired from a port under the windscreen in a old Saab (or was it a Yugo?). But I am prehaps too conservative and really can't abide Bond novels by anyone other than old IF. I was disgusted to read in "Colonel Sun" that Bond didn't carry in the UK - what piffle! Evidently Amis failed to read "Moonraker" or even "From Russia with Love". I can't envision Bond going anywhere without his Walther or Beretta on his person. Bond is either setting up a target or a target himself, whether he walks about London or is sitting in a beach chair at Beau Desert.
So in the end I'll always be grinding my teeth when someone proposes Bond be armed with some new "wunderpistole", but that's just me. And while Fleming missed the boat with respect to the Centennial, the clever folks who brought us John Steed armed that fictional fellow with the Centennial in his first season with the wonderous Emma Peel. Steed's discreet use of the S&W makes up for Bond's reluctance to embrace the revolver.
Sorry, after looking at Asp9mm's pictures again - I just could not resist!!!
That is a wonderful little pistol.
Gardner was a funny one. You are right, his choice of pistols was bizaare, that daft long Browning and the VP70 brick. Bloody awful. He had a habit of forgeting what they were too and later described Bonds ASP as a BHP conversion. It also annoyed me when he described why the PPK was no longer in service. What piffle. It is still in service today!!! And Glasers being able to blow petrol tanks and tires... hah!!
Fleming was the same though, he went to great lengths to research the things, and then ends up getting it all backwards on paper. I don't think Boothroyd ever did recommend the PPK did he? He just loaned Fleming a .22 PPK along with the famous chopped S&W so he could fire a .22 auto. Fleming just fell in love with the design.
I thought I was the only one that judged the Bond books and films by the gun use in them You must hate Moonraker. Not a PPK in sight.
.................................
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
And whilst we are posting pics...
The original, courtesy of Josh Bulman...
And the very rare ASP revolver based on a Ruger...
And the very rare ASP revolver based on a Ruger...
Ooh, gun porn. Me likey! Do you have more information on the ASP revolver?
DG
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Don't get me started on the Moore Bonds... another thread altogether.
Interesting you mentioned the notion that Boothroyd loaned his .22 PPK to Fleming. I did a little research on the Boothroyd .22 PPK that was auctioned off a few years back. It turned out that Boothroyd's pistol was not made until 1965.
Boothroyd did have a Ruger Auto in the Target configuration and there are photos of Fleming posing with this and a Ruger Super Blackhawk. I would suspect that Boothroyd picked up some "Bond guns" after Fleming died and he gained some fame as "James Bond's Armourer".
Although Boothroyd suggested the PPK to Fleming in their famous letter exchange as a pistol to arm enemy agents, it is still a mystery ( to me) why Fleming chose this model for oo7. It has been suggested that it was the name alone that appealed to Fleming, but generally he researched details in the novels in a bit more depth. We do have correspondence indicating that he saw and intended to buy a S&W Centennial, it's a bit confusing as to why it ended up in the mud on Crab Key.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
DG, I have some info on the ASP revolver somewhere. I'll dig it out.
I can understand Fleming choosing Berns Martin holsters because of the name, but not Walther PPK. Fleming would have correctly pronounced it Valter, and it doesn't have that same ring to me.
Interesting that the PPK was dated 1965. Certainly rules that out as a Fleming connected gun then. Good job I never won it at the auction.
The whole how and why of Flemings choice of the PPK is baffling. Considering it's history and where it was being made, these things obviously had no meaning to Fleming, or he chose it on looks and name alone without digging too deeply. His well reasoned choice of the Centennial seems to have been hastily scrapped and replaced with the PPK at the last moment. The great 'Choice of Weapons' chapter having some technical flaws (holster choice and Centennial incorrectly chosen for distance). I guess it's just one of those things that we'll never find out. Maybe we pay Fleming to much respect for his research. It seems he bored easily of such things and moved onto something else that held his interest for the next five minutes.
I would agree that Fleming's research is perhaps too highly regarded. I am sure that our obsession with Bond's pistols would be met by the master with the same disdain that William Shatner showed in the famous Saturday Night Live skit on "Star Trek" fans.
There are sometimes happy coincedences in fiction, and it's possible that Fleming went with his gut, and made a lucky guess when picking the PPK. It's very true that the famous "Choice of Weapons" chapter is riddled with error. I always cringe when Boothroyd mentions the various barrel lengths available for the Centenial. Odviously this information applied to the bigger .357 Boothroyd recommended. While much is made of the Berns Martin being only available for revolvers, B-M did make break fronts for the 1911 - and it's not too small a stretch to imagine that this small firm could have done one up for a PPK .
Fleming did get called on the B-M , and that's why he switched the PPK holster out to a "stitched pigskin" number probably very similar to the Vega model now used by DC.
For the same reason that Fleming went with the PPK and then never messed with that choice again, the films shouldn't mess with perfection.....
I still am of the opininion that Fleming liked the sound,and perhaps the
"look" in print of "Walther PPK 7.65mm". Judging from the description in 'Choice of Weapons' in "Dr No",he'd probably at least handled a PPK briefly,as he mentions the magazine extension and light trigger(of course, in single action) but I don't recall ever seeing any mention of the PPK's double action trigger in any of the Fleming books.
I had a guy tell me that Bond would never use a S&W made PPK. I don't think he'd hesitate to use one, provided it was reliable.
"provided it was reliable"......
You nailed it right there. The new S&W version of the Walther has proven to be a disappointment, and does little to honor the Walther name. This has not prevented the S&W from appearing in the credits for "Casino Royale" '06, and prehaps even posing with DC on a card table.
I don't understand this - I always found S&W weapons to be of supreme quality, yet a few years ago I used a Walther P99 and a S&W made Walther P99 and found the latter to be rubbish. Why can Smith & Wesson not live up to Walther? You could drop one to a village in Northern Pakistan and they could make a better one out of parts of a bicycle for about £3...
Amazon #1 Bestselling Author. If you enjoy crime, espionage, action and fast-moving thrillers follow this link:
For S&W picking up the Walther line must have looked like a real money maker, but they have shown little regard for the brand name. Their manufacturing efforts with Walther products have been indifferent at best.
At the same time the S&W brand itself has maintained its quality - however, some recent "improvements" to their line, like a built in action locks, and MIM parts have not been well received.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
7289, you might be pleased to hear that Oscar Jade kills more baddies with Colt 'pickups' (.38 Police Positives, and a 1911 .45) than he does with his personal sidearm, the .38 S&W M&P...
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Gardner was a funny one. You are right, his choice of pistols was bizaare, that daft long Browning and the VP70 brick. Bloody awful. He had a habit of forgeting what they were too and later described Bonds ASP as a BHP conversion. It also annoyed me when he described why the PPK was no longer in service. What piffle. It is still in service today!!! And Glasers being able to blow petrol tanks and tires... hah!!
Fleming was the same though, he went to great lengths to research the things, and then ends up getting it all backwards on paper. I don't think Boothroyd ever did recommend the PPK did he? He just loaned Fleming a .22 PPK along with the famous chopped S&W so he could fire a .22 auto. Fleming just fell in love with the design
I agree. Gardner did get it wrong with the first 2 books, even though they were great to read. 'Icebreaker' did deliver what I thought was an excellent choice of weapon for 007, in the form of the HKP7. As for his description of why the PPK was no longer in service, he was right in that. The gun did jam on the royal protection officer who, during an attemped kidnapping attempt, was protecting Princess Anne and Captain Mark Phillips, so that is why the PPk was withdrawn from service. However, Gardner (in his defence) didn't say that the PPk wasn't banned from use by the military. I'm sure the Air Force, as well as the SAS still use it as it is a great compact weapon. For me, 007 and the PPk make the ultimate team. Sure, there are other better guns that might suit 007, but could you see Sherlock Holmes without Dr Watson, Batman without Robin, Tom without Jerry? I sure can't.
Typical for that proctection officer to get a stoppage when it counts. You could put a million rounds down the range and then... Anyway, the PPK is a terrible choice for close protection - harsh double action pull, low on power (for adrenalin/panic shots), small grips and an awkward magazine replenish and sometimes slippery slide pull. The only benefit is thin profile and size for conceal carry. The weapon is much better for an agent than a bodyguard. A nice 2 1/2 inch barelled .38/.357 revolver with oversized rubber grips and either low profile sights or guttersnipe set up should be the close protection default.
Amazon #1 Bestselling Author. If you enjoy crime, espionage, action and fast-moving thrillers follow this link:
Comments
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Just for the record, I don'y think anyone really knows for sure what pistol Hitler used on himself, but I read that his personal choice in a handgun was a .25 caliber Walther. Whatever that goon used it was "good riddance".
However, if it was a PPK - maybe oo7 was on the job!!!!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Bond's use of the P5 was something of a glich. I always suspected that the use of the P5 by both Moore and Connery in the same year was no coincidence, but have nothing to prove it.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
The original Bond in Ian Fleming's novels did not strike me as a man who placed much emphasis on looks as far as his gun is concerned. After all, in Casino Royale, Fleming refered to Bond keeping a Colt .38 with a sawn off barrel under his pillow. He also carried a Beretta 418. Some may find that this little gun has an old world charm of its own, but it's certainly not what a dandy would call a 'good looking' gun - particularly after Bond had attacked it with a file. [In the early Bond novels, the spy seemed to enjoy multilating his firearms.]
Fleming only improved on the aesthetic qualities of Bond's gun choices in Dr No, in the famous scene when he received his PPK and the S&W Centennial. Both are fine looking guns, and Bond refrained from his usual practice of attacking them with a saw or file. Yet, strangely, he did not take to them in the first instance. [Particularly the Centennial, which is in my opinion the better looking fo the two. He never carried this little gun again in the novels.] This is in character. His equipment has to prove themselves based on function, not on looks alone.
And so we come to the question of what a modern day Bond would, or should, choose as his personal firearm. We have been so used to Bond carrying a Walther pistol that most of us dismissed Bond using a Glock as his personal firearm out of hand. But this is not in character, particularly the original Bond, and Daniel Craig's Bond. An agent as practical as Bond would not dismiss a Glock out of hand if it is the best weapon that fulfills his needs.
Having said that, Bond would probably not carry a Glock as his - for the lack of a better term - CCW pistol. It is fairly chunky and blocky. You would need a bit more effort to conceal such a pistol. Given the early firearm choices of Bond's, it seems clear that he puts a premium on concealment - particularly under a well-cut suit. Modern BGs can hide even a MP5K under a suit jacket cut wide at the shoulders but they look eactly like what they are - dangerous men armed to the teeth. Not quite the effect Bond would go for. So, it is unlikely he would go for anything larger than a Glock 19 - i.e. anything more than 5" high, and very likely settle for something at most 4.5" high. A PPK would do nicely then.
There's some discussion of calibre as well. Well, a 7.65mm round doesn't go like a brick through a glass window, no matter which loading you use. Many consider a 9mm Parabellum to be the minimum in terms of power. [Personally, I think a J-frame revolver with 148-gr .38 Special wadcutters is the essence, but that's just me.] However, we must remember that what Bond needs is a CCW pistol that he would only use in the extremis, and then, mostly for close range work. An example was the shootout at the opera house in QoS. In such a situation, well trained shooters can make even the .22 LR deadly. The Mossad, Israeli air marshals and commandoes made good use of .22 Beretta 70s in the 1960's and 1970's. So, the 7.65mm doesn't strike me as a poor choice after all for what it is meant for. Again, a PPK would seem to do rather nicely!
But if I were to choose a firearm other than a PPK for our interpid agent, I would have him consider the new SiG P238 .380 ACP pistol. It is barely 4" high and 6" long, has a magazine capacity of 6 rounds, and from what I hear, is reliable and accurate. And, of course, it fires a larger calibre round. This gun should give the PPK a run for its money.
I'm not personally a fan of the P99, I found it a bit toy-like and the stock/grips a bit short for my hands when I used one (the mag extension of the later PPK's was a touch of genius IMO), but then I'm old school having been issued with Browning Hi-Powers and Walther PP and PPK's in the army. Ten years of those and anything new will seem like a toy. Glocks are everywhere frankly because they're so damn good, but as ASP9mm points out, they're not Bond. Bond needs something a little more individual. Perhaps a future Q could actually build him a complete one-off which we can all speculate the derivitives of for a long time to come...
http://apbateman.com
This was the first one ever made, bit rough and ready, I wonder where that is now? :
I'm not clever enough to harass you like Bondtoys could, but have to disagree with those out there that would take the PPK from Bond and rob him of the last "trait" that his creator endowed upon him.
Prehaps there are better "real world" guns out there for Bond. But remember it was 007 that launched the Walther PPK from the ranks of top of the line but obscure pocket pistols to "iconic status" with other well known firearms like the Colt .45 or the Luger. To replace the PPK in Bond's mit would be just plain wrong.
I personally didn't care that Brosnan carried the P99, it was his tenure - and the absence of the PPK - that caused me to lose interest in the franchise, and actually NOT see DAD in the cinema. When DC took on the role, I found I could live with the P99 (and even purchased one) because his acting and gun handling reinspired my interest in the charecter ( Eva Green really helped alot too!). To discover later that DC had the PPK during the PTS bathroom fight in CR'06 was frosting on the cake.
Now that Bond has returned to the PPK in QOS, I really dread to think he might abandon it again. I could live with the P99 secreted in the Aston DBS, but returning to the PPK is a draw for me, and the series would be poorer for it's absence.
For Bond to be Bond there must be a British Actor wearing a Rolex, driving an Aston-Martin and packing a PPK (or .25 Beretta) without those "props" one might as well go see Jason Bourne or a Batman flick.
For those of you out there like me who are diehard firearms types, sure there are plently of pistols that work as well or better than the PPK, but this is a Bond film and Bond without a PPK is like John Wayne without his yellow handled Colt .45 and big loop carbine - the end result is just not as "funl".
So, I'm hoping that Bond sticks with the PPK for his personal firearm and continues to make use of "pick-up" handguns like the BHP in CR'06 and the two SIG's in QOS. If you want to insert your favorite pistol into the films, let the villian carry it - Bond can them dispatch the badguy with his super judo skills and turn the gun against it's owner....
But for goodness sake keep those boring Glocks, those evil looking SIGS and yes even those slick custom ASP pistols out of Bond's holster and let the PPK stay where it belong's - If you doubt me, just ask Ian Fleming.....
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
I have Gardners books for the P7 and ASP, but I would have loved to have seen Bond carrying those guns just once. Brosnans gun handling was awful, which is why we probably accepted the P99 with him as anything would have done. But that scene in TND in the hotel and with the PPK and silencer is pure brilliance. Craigs 99.9% correct gun handling was great, and the P99 with Craig gained respect, plus that silencer was a design classic. With QOS, I thought his pistol technique dropped just slightly, but the PPK was brilliant. It just begged for more explanantion as to why it was back, and that detracted from its retun for me. Again, the last scenes are pure PPK classic, and it returns in style. No way could he have concealed a P99 in the Tom Ford suits.
As for the future and Bond as a character. Really, only a production pistol could suit him as he loses them so readily. The world is not what it was, and having the same custom gun or a rarity like the P7 available in every stop over is stretching reality somewhat. The PPK performs better with every leap forward we get in ammunition development, and still holds it's own against the wonder guns we have now. I just hope that they keep stepping up the gun handling performances and don't let it slip to the Brosnan era. That was truly awful.
By the way, Fleming would have loved the ASP. It's history and design would have ticked all of Mr Flemings boxes, not to mention the accessories etc. It was one of the things Gardner got absolutely right, and recommended by Boothroyd himself. Pity Gardner cocked it up in his last book and got the details all wrong.
As usual I can't find much to argue about with you, as your observations talley with mine.
Have to say that while I admire the craftsmanship of the Asp pistol, I was never really taken with them "back in the day" when they were expensive but available. A good friend of mine purchased one and I got to spend some time with it. While it was very "slick" - right down to the teflon finish, ultimately it failed to preform for my pal and after an unsucessful trip back to the factory it was sold off. I had the chance to buy it then, but stupidly passed.
I actually owned the P7, but could never deal with the cocking mechanism, IMO it would have been better placed on the back of the grip. I sold it to another friend who used for heavily for years - and won many a combat shoot with it. So while both the Asp and the P7 appear to be fine pistols, my own expierence with the designs has been less than stellar.
Boothroyd's advice to Fleming with respect to Bond's pistols was largely ignored by Fleming. The big .357 Magnum never showed up in Bond's holster and the S&W Centennial, that "brutal, stumpy" revolver made only 1.5 appearances. Had Bond stuck with the S&W he would have been way ahead of the game, for after fading from production in the 1970's the Centnnial design is now considered to be a nearly universal classic and is prehaps in more holsters and pockets here in the USA than any other type of handgun.
I do remember reading Boothroyd recomending the stainless steel Chief's Special as the "ultimate" Bond gun, and certainly Boothroyd would have loved the S&W 640-1 in .357 just as well. But when it comes down to it, Fleming seemed to prefer a small automatic and his preferences spilled over into Bond's charecter, and old oo7 never really strayed from the pocket semi-auto pistol.
For me that chopped up old Beretta, a reliable and hopelessly underpowered little pistol is the ultimate Bond pistol. Interestingly the Beretta shares some similiarity with a S&W 39 that is cut down and morphed into the Asp, and the striker fired P7.
I must say that like Brosnan, I never warmed to Gardner's oo7 novels. I found the first tolerable, but the choice of pistols ludricrous - a very antique and obscure Browning (not the famous P35) and a Ruger .44 Super Blackhawk fired from a port under the windscreen in a old Saab (or was it a Yugo?). But I am prehaps too conservative and really can't abide Bond novels by anyone other than old IF. I was disgusted to read in "Colonel Sun" that Bond didn't carry in the UK - what piffle! Evidently Amis failed to read "Moonraker" or even "From Russia with Love". I can't envision Bond going anywhere without his Walther or Beretta on his person. Bond is either setting up a target or a target himself, whether he walks about London or is sitting in a beach chair at Beau Desert.
So in the end I'll always be grinding my teeth when someone proposes Bond be armed with some new "wunderpistole", but that's just me. And while Fleming missed the boat with respect to the Centennial, the clever folks who brought us John Steed armed that fictional fellow with the Centennial in his first season with the wonderous Emma Peel. Steed's discreet use of the S&W makes up for Bond's reluctance to embrace the revolver.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Sorry, after looking at Asp9mm's pictures again - I just could not resist!!!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
That is a wonderful little pistol.
Gardner was a funny one. You are right, his choice of pistols was bizaare, that daft long Browning and the VP70 brick. Bloody awful. He had a habit of forgeting what they were too and later described Bonds ASP as a BHP conversion. It also annoyed me when he described why the PPK was no longer in service. What piffle. It is still in service today!!! And Glasers being able to blow petrol tanks and tires... hah!!
Fleming was the same though, he went to great lengths to research the things, and then ends up getting it all backwards on paper. I don't think Boothroyd ever did recommend the PPK did he? He just loaned Fleming a .22 PPK along with the famous chopped S&W so he could fire a .22 auto. Fleming just fell in love with the design.
I thought I was the only one that judged the Bond books and films by the gun use in them
The original, courtesy of Josh Bulman...
And the very rare ASP revolver based on a Ruger...
Ooh, gun porn. Me likey! Do you have more information on the ASP revolver?
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Don't get me started on the Moore Bonds... another thread altogether.
Interesting you mentioned the notion that Boothroyd loaned his .22 PPK to Fleming. I did a little research on the Boothroyd .22 PPK that was auctioned off a few years back. It turned out that Boothroyd's pistol was not made until 1965.
Boothroyd did have a Ruger Auto in the Target configuration and there are photos of Fleming posing with this and a Ruger Super Blackhawk. I would suspect that Boothroyd picked up some "Bond guns" after Fleming died and he gained some fame as "James Bond's Armourer".
Although Boothroyd suggested the PPK to Fleming in their famous letter exchange as a pistol to arm enemy agents, it is still a mystery ( to me) why Fleming chose this model for oo7. It has been suggested that it was the name alone that appealed to Fleming, but generally he researched details in the novels in a bit more depth. We do have correspondence indicating that he saw and intended to buy a S&W Centennial, it's a bit confusing as to why it ended up in the mud on Crab Key.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
I can understand Fleming choosing Berns Martin holsters because of the name, but not Walther PPK. Fleming would have correctly pronounced it Valter, and it doesn't have that same ring to me.
Interesting that the PPK was dated 1965. Certainly rules that out as a Fleming connected gun then. Good job I never won it at the auction.
The whole how and why of Flemings choice of the PPK is baffling. Considering it's history and where it was being made, these things obviously had no meaning to Fleming, or he chose it on looks and name alone without digging too deeply. His well reasoned choice of the Centennial seems to have been hastily scrapped and replaced with the PPK at the last moment. The great 'Choice of Weapons' chapter having some technical flaws (holster choice and Centennial incorrectly chosen for distance). I guess it's just one of those things that we'll never find out. Maybe we pay Fleming to much respect for his research. It seems he bored easily of such things and moved onto something else that held his interest for the next five minutes.
I would agree that Fleming's research is perhaps too highly regarded. I am sure that our obsession with Bond's pistols would be met by the master with the same disdain that William Shatner showed in the famous Saturday Night Live skit on "Star Trek" fans.
There are sometimes happy coincedences in fiction, and it's possible that Fleming went with his gut, and made a lucky guess when picking the PPK. It's very true that the famous "Choice of Weapons" chapter is riddled with error. I always cringe when Boothroyd mentions the various barrel lengths available for the Centenial. Odviously this information applied to the bigger .357 Boothroyd recommended. While much is made of the Berns Martin being only available for revolvers, B-M did make break fronts for the 1911 - and it's not too small a stretch to imagine that this small firm could have done one up for a PPK .
Fleming did get called on the B-M , and that's why he switched the PPK holster out to a "stitched pigskin" number probably very similar to the Vega model now used by DC.
For the same reason that Fleming went with the PPK and then never messed with that choice again, the films shouldn't mess with perfection.....
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
"look" in print of "Walther PPK 7.65mm". Judging from the description in 'Choice of Weapons' in "Dr No",he'd probably at least handled a PPK briefly,as he mentions the magazine extension and light trigger(of course, in single action) but I don't recall ever seeing any mention of the PPK's double action trigger in any of the Fleming books.
Regards,
Tecolote
I had a guy tell me that Bond would never use a S&W made PPK. I don't think he'd hesitate to use one, provided it was reliable.
"provided it was reliable"......
You nailed it right there. The new S&W version of the Walther has proven to be a disappointment, and does little to honor the Walther name. This has not prevented the S&W from appearing in the credits for "Casino Royale" '06, and prehaps even posing with DC on a card table.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
http://apbateman.com
At the same time the S&W brand itself has maintained its quality - however, some recent "improvements" to their line, like a built in action locks, and MIM parts have not been well received.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
I agree. Gardner did get it wrong with the first 2 books, even though they were great to read. 'Icebreaker' did deliver what I thought was an excellent choice of weapon for 007, in the form of the HKP7. As for his description of why the PPK was no longer in service, he was right in that. The gun did jam on the royal protection officer who, during an attemped kidnapping attempt, was protecting Princess Anne and Captain Mark Phillips, so that is why the PPk was withdrawn from service. However, Gardner (in his defence) didn't say that the PPk wasn't banned from use by the military. I'm sure the Air Force, as well as the SAS still use it as it is a great compact weapon. For me, 007 and the PPk make the ultimate team. Sure, there are other better guns that might suit 007, but could you see Sherlock Holmes without Dr Watson, Batman without Robin, Tom without Jerry? I sure can't.
http://apbateman.com