Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,703MI6 Agent
Meh, ok episode. I was expecting more but don't know what. I'm curious as to why the real mother of Jakob and MIB was so brutally killed by the woman on the island. Maybe it was explained and I missed it. After watching this episode I'm still confused about some things. Maybe that's the way it's supposed to be. Oh well, until next week.
Some people would complain even if you hang them with a new rope
Meh, ok episode. I was expecting more but don't know what.
That was kind of my reaction too. Well acted episode but after being promised "The Big Answers" I was a little let down by the story and for all we saw, I'm still not clear on why the Man in Black / Smokey cannot leave the island - as far as I could tell, he didn't care about the light other than using it as a means to an end to get off that rock. He seemed more interested with just seeing what was out there. Also, the definition of what the island is that we get here (the nexus of life, death and rebirth) is radically different from what Jacob told Richard Alpert in Ab Aterno a few weeks back.
Also, I still don't really know what the smoke monster is. Is it the Man in Black's soul, freed of its body? Is it some entity that feeds on the life force inside us? How can it change shape and assimilate peoples' memories? Also, just what is the "game" being waged between Jacob and the Man In Black? I get that MIB's time with the castaways (the first Others?) soured him on humanity's potential, but when did Jacob's mission change from protecting the light to showing MIB that people could choose to be good?
Another thing I found interesting was how, throughout the course of the show, so many conflicts and misunderstandings could have been avoided if characters had just been honest with one another. We see the same thing here with the boys' "mother" being dishonest and holding information back from them, and that leads to the episode's sad ending. I actually empathised with MIB's actions for most of the show, especially after she'd butchered the entire camp. Just how did she do that BTW? Was she also capable of turning into a smoke monster? How did she know what would happen if you went into the light? First hand experience maybe?
The identity of the skeletons in the cave also highlights another pet peeve of mine about this show: namely, that the writers never let you in on all the info, even indirectly. The identity of the skeletons had been a source of endless speculation by the fans (I always thought they would have been revealed to be Rose and Bernard) and the writers did nothing to discourage it. Having one of them end up being a character we hadn't even seen before felt like something of a cheat. To me that's almost as bad as reading a murder mystery and having the killer be a character who is introduced in the last ten pages of the book.
Oh well, at least we know where the donkey wheel came from.
I read not too long ago that the writers have warned that the series finale WON'T answer all the questions, so it's safe to say that we'll be asking things for days--weeks--months--years--decades--to come. And maybe that's the purpose?
I read not too long ago that the writers have warned that the series finale WON'T answer all the questions, so it's safe to say that we'll be asking things for days--weeks--months--years--decades--to come. And maybe that's the purpose?
Yes HB, I've long resigned myself to the fact that not every question would be answered. I'm fine with that and I enjoy healthy ongoing debate about a show's meaning as much as the next guy (and I have a feeling Lost will generate years worth of debate).
But part of me also feels that the writers of the show could have put some of the time available to them this season to better use. That whole arc with Dogen, Lennon and the Temple could have been presented much more succinctly, and there were some episodes early on in Season 6 that really felt like fillers. Introducing new characters this late in the game to advance the plot smacks of lazy storytelling to me and some of the explanations presented (like the identity of the skeletons) feel manufactured and don't seem to fit in a particularly satisfying or organic way.
Still, with a story as long and complex as Lost that has so many characters going off in so many directions, I guess a conclusion that answers everything and makes everyone happy would be pretty much impossible.
Well, the penultimate episode was pretty leisurely, without many big revelations--c'mon, is anybody surprised that Jack stepped up to take Jacob's place? But at least good ol' Sawyer put it into perspective: "I thought that guy had a God complex before. . ." Otherwise, about the biggest surprise was the quick double-dispatch of Widmore and Zoe (I can't decide if she's a hot nerd or a nerdish hottie). That said, it was fun to see Ben Linus back to his weasely self--especially since we get to see what a good man he is in the "alternate" reality--and, as usual, the parade of dead-characters-brought-back-to-life in that other reality was a blast. And--heavens--have we actually seen the end of Richard?
So, what's left in this big season-ending extravaganza set for Sunday at 6:00 p.m. my time? I dunno, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends with Jack and EviLocke in a perpetual stalemate, meaning the story will go on, even though the digital cameras are no longer recording. Until Sunday, then. . .
Vox clamantis in deserto
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,703MI6 Agent
Wow. Yet another question answered. Why they were chosen and why Kates name was crossed out. Ben is back to his weasely self, but I'm thinking he's setting up Flocke for a trap. I still want to know what part Desmond plays in all of this. He's come in contact with the remaining survivors. Sayid, Kate and Desmond were all in jail together with Sawyer in the same building. John Locke is visiting Jack Shepard at the hospital for a surgery. Very interesting. On the island it's coming down to Flocke vs Jack. In the X time line Jack will be helping Locke. On the flip side, on the island Sawyer, Kate, Jack and Hurley are all together. In time line X, Hurley, Kate, Sayid and Desmond are all together. How will they come together?
Set your recording device for this Sunday. A recap show will be on before the 2 1/2 hour Series finale. Then Jimmy Kimmel will have a special show on at 12am. I can't wait for the series finale. I hate to see it go, but will love to see how it ends.
Some people would complain even if you hang them with a new rope
Yeah I'm not quite buying into Ben's return to the dark side just yet. When that scene played out the first thing that popped in my head was a line from the Godfather II: "keep your friends close and your enemies closer."
Enjoyable episode with the campfire scene with Jacob being quite a significant moment in Lost history. I was kind of surprised by how so much of the episode played exactly like everyone thought it would. Jack becoming the new island protector kind of surprised me for example precisely because everything had been leading up to that happening. For a show like Lost that enjoys pulling the rug out from under you, to have something play out the way you thought it would was a little unexpected. That's also why I'm not convinced that Jack will remain the island's protector for very long; even though he took the responsibility he didn't seem too sure about it and Jacob's "for as long as you can" comment foreshadowed something ominous to me.
I was also taken aback by Hurley's comment that he was glad he wasn't getting the job. That seemed a little out of character - cowardly and selfish - for him.
I still think both Richard Alpert and Lapidus have roles to play before all is said and done. For characters who have been around so long, I can't believe their exits would be so insignificant.
Looking forward to seeing how it all ends Sunday night. Network TV won't be quite the same when Lost finally ends its run.
I'm still absorbing the mammoth two-and-a-half hour Lost finale, but it's safe to say I'm satisfied and I liked it. From start to finish it stayed true to Lost--the main story was brought to a logical end (well, logical by Lost standards--it's really not clear WHAT EviLocke and especially Jack expect Desmond to do in that cosmic sink or whatever it is), and we were finally told what that "alternate reality" is. As to the latter, I was surprised by how effective--and how incredibly simple--it all is. I also appreciated that we got the usual Lost touches--many reappearances by old characters (interesting how Michael, Walt, and Mr. Eko never showed up--does the NAACP know about this?), the recurring characters acting as we know and love (Hurley even got to make TWO Star Wars references in the teaser), and the fact that we're STILL left with questions to ask. For instance, where the heck did all that Egyptian stuff--hieroglyphics, the giant Sobek statue--come from? Does the fact Richard doesn't show up in the "alternate" reality mean he's still alive--or does his first gray hair mean that Jacob's "gift" has expired? And, without giving too much away about what the other reality really is, does it mean that all the characters who came "after" Jack--such as Kate and Sawyer--didn't go on to have lives that were just as meaningful, if not more meaningful, than when they were on the Island?
But those are small gripes--if they're even gripes. I enjoyed Lost for the last six years, and I'm happy it came to a satisfactory conclusion, with no wide-open endings or patronizing "surprises" like making the entire show the figment of someone's imagination. I'll miss it.
It's late, I'm wiped out and it will take a long time to completely process this. But overall, I enjoyed the finale. I found the final scenes moving and the whole explanation of the sideways world worked, even if it did pull the rug out from under you in some ways. I'm glad we didn't get another Sopranos non-ending.
As for not seeing Michael, Walt and Ecko...
think back to what Christian told Jack at the church: these people came together because they were so important to one another. Those three just weren't around long enough to have that kind of positive emotional impact. That's also probably why Ben didn't go in at the end: he was more an antagonist to the cast for most of the show.
For me, the most enduring image of the show will probably be...Kate in that skimpy black dress. Hubba hubba!
And, without giving too much away about what the other reality really is, does it mean that all the characters who came "after" Jack--such as Kate and Sawyer--didn't go on to have lives that were just as meaningful, if not more meaningful, than when they were on the Island?
Now that I'm bright eyed and bushy tailed and was able to read your post more coherently, I was thinking the same thing. You could definitely make the argument that their lives weren't that emotionally fulfilling; at the very least it's safe to infer that none of them ever found another special someone.
Also, the final explanation of what the sideways-verse was begs the question: what was the meaning of that establishing shot of the island underwater from the season premiere? Taken in conjunction with other little conversations - like the one between Daniel and Desmond a few weeks back - would lead me to think that the writers were dropping some red herrings to keep us off the scent.
BTW, did I mention how hot Kate looked in that little black dress? :x :x :x
Not sure I follow you HB, but I threw in some spoiler tags, just in case...
Gads. . .I was just making a joke about those characters not being in the finale, and so I was saying maybe a wink would have been appropriate. It seems with or without emoticons, I'm so very misunderstood.
Since I'm here, another thing I enjoyed last night were the little tips to this being the final episode of the show. How many times did someone mention--in either universe--that something big was coming at the end? And I loved EviLocke's comment that he was surprised Jacob made such an "obvious" choice for his successor as Jack. But, of course, that itself turned out to be a bit of a red herring. . .
And Kate in the black dress? Oh yes. Yes indeed. . .
Gads. . .I was just making a joke about those characters not being in the finale, and so I was saying maybe a wink would have been appropriate. It seems with or without emoticons, I'm so very misunderstood.
Ah, I get it. Such are the vagaries of posts on a chat board; no matter how hard we try our intent can so easily get diffused...much like the meaning of Lost. :007)
And I loved EviLocke's comment that he was surprised Jacob made such an "obvious" choice for his successor as Jack. But, of course, that itself turned out to be a bit of a red herring. . .
Yes, but for me that outcome had been pretty well telegraphed last week when a certain character said "I'm just glad it wasn't me".
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,703MI6 Agent
Wow, just plain wow. I'm glad I didn't watch this as it was shown, but instead watched it after work. I'm glad I was able to fast forward through the commercials. I wanted to get to the end fast, but don't know why. I have a feeling some people will mis-understand the ending and say "I knew all along they were dead. Told you so." But that isn't what it was about. Only season 6 (the X time line) was the "death" time line. At least that's how I understand it. As for the rest, I'm guessing Lapidus, Sawyer, Kate, Miles, and Claire got off the island and went on to live their lives. Ben, Hurley, Jack and whoever else I'm missing stayed on the island and died on the island. I guess that would mean Rose and Bernard died on the island also. That's the only explanation I'll accept. If you want to add to it, I might accept some of your views to. I'm sorry to see Lost come to an end. I'm also glad it ended when it did. If it had gone on any longer the writers may have dug a hole to deep to get out of. As for the mysteries of the island that went unanswered, well, I'm glad they weren't answered. Life should always have a little mystery in it.
Some people would complain even if you hang them with a new rope
Bella_docQuantum's next target (Canada)Posts: 51MI6 Agent
edited May 2010
Aww, you guys are too nice! :v
I thought the ending was cheap and tacked on but then my faith in Lost has been steadily dropping for the past 2+ seasons. Somewhere between the pointless Temple run-around and the whole "claimed" business I completely lost the will and energy to come up with overly-convoluted B.S. (really a tragic thing if one is still in college ) to explain away the characters' baffling motivations and many contradictory actions. And that's not even getting into official long-standing mysteries like the pregnancy curse, the food drops, the Others etc.. Looking back on earlier seasons with what I know now, it seems patently obvious, despite all their protestations, that Darlton were making it up as they went along. There's a theory that having a set end date was an enormous boon in that regard as it allowed them to string viewers along for 3+ seasons with the promise that everything would come together in the end. Really, when it's put that way Lost was one of the best long cons in TV history. X-(
I won't rehash all my problems with the show/finale here but there's a link below where you can read it. There's also an interesting discussion on where the writing went wrong and whether Darlton really had everything planned out from the beginning... fascinating stuff.
I must say that the "long con" of the LOST writers is most likely true.
However, I enjoyed the finale and thought it was just as good as any other LOST ending they could've come up with. It ended on a happy note at least, rather than in some Babel-like misery fest.
At first I didn't like the finale and thought they were explicitly trying to make some grand philosophical points, but as I came to realize (in the middle of the night) that the purgatory was just for LOST island folks I started to calm down.
A good show, with a lot of unsolved mysteries, but heck...that gives us something to talk about and the opportunity for a movie!
gave up on lost early season two, seemed to self important and alot of emphasis on mundane incidents. so they were in purgatory all along with some flash sideways universe. wonder if that was there original idea to end it back in season one hmm.
'...exceptionally fine shot...'
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,703MI6 Agent
gave up on lost early season two, seemed to self important and alot of emphasis on mundane incidents. so they were in purgatory all along with some flash sideways universe. wonder if that was there original idea to end it back in season one hmm.
Actually they were not in purgatory. Everything that happened on the island, actually happened. The season 6 flash sideways set up the season finale where we found out that was a world they created so they could be together. The only thing known back in Season 1, actually before the season started was the Matthew Fox charector of Jack Shepard would die in the season finale. Matthew Fox knew the last shot would be of him closing his eyes.
Some people would complain even if you hang them with a new rope
Comments
That was kind of my reaction too. Well acted episode but after being promised "The Big Answers" I was a little let down by the story and for all we saw, I'm still not clear on why the Man in Black / Smokey cannot leave the island - as far as I could tell, he didn't care about the light other than using it as a means to an end to get off that rock. He seemed more interested with just seeing what was out there. Also, the definition of what the island is that we get here (the nexus of life, death and rebirth) is radically different from what Jacob told Richard Alpert in Ab Aterno a few weeks back.
Also, I still don't really know what the smoke monster is. Is it the Man in Black's soul, freed of its body? Is it some entity that feeds on the life force inside us? How can it change shape and assimilate peoples' memories? Also, just what is the "game" being waged between Jacob and the Man In Black? I get that MIB's time with the castaways (the first Others?) soured him on humanity's potential, but when did Jacob's mission change from protecting the light to showing MIB that people could choose to be good?
Another thing I found interesting was how, throughout the course of the show, so many conflicts and misunderstandings could have been avoided if characters had just been honest with one another. We see the same thing here with the boys' "mother" being dishonest and holding information back from them, and that leads to the episode's sad ending. I actually empathised with MIB's actions for most of the show, especially after she'd butchered the entire camp. Just how did she do that BTW? Was she also capable of turning into a smoke monster? How did she know what would happen if you went into the light? First hand experience maybe?
The identity of the skeletons in the cave also highlights another pet peeve of mine about this show: namely, that the writers never let you in on all the info, even indirectly. The identity of the skeletons had been a source of endless speculation by the fans (I always thought they would have been revealed to be Rose and Bernard) and the writers did nothing to discourage it. Having one of them end up being a character we hadn't even seen before felt like something of a cheat. To me that's almost as bad as reading a murder mystery and having the killer be a character who is introduced in the last ten pages of the book.
Oh well, at least we know where the donkey wheel came from.
Yes HB, I've long resigned myself to the fact that not every question would be answered. I'm fine with that and I enjoy healthy ongoing debate about a show's meaning as much as the next guy (and I have a feeling Lost will generate years worth of debate).
But part of me also feels that the writers of the show could have put some of the time available to them this season to better use. That whole arc with Dogen, Lennon and the Temple could have been presented much more succinctly, and there were some episodes early on in Season 6 that really felt like fillers. Introducing new characters this late in the game to advance the plot smacks of lazy storytelling to me and some of the explanations presented (like the identity of the skeletons) feel manufactured and don't seem to fit in a particularly satisfying or organic way.
Still, with a story as long and complex as Lost that has so many characters going off in so many directions, I guess a conclusion that answers everything and makes everyone happy would be pretty much impossible.
So, what's left in this big season-ending extravaganza set for Sunday at 6:00 p.m. my time? I dunno, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends with Jack and EviLocke in a perpetual stalemate, meaning the story will go on, even though the digital cameras are no longer recording. Until Sunday, then. . .
Set your recording device for this Sunday. A recap show will be on before the 2 1/2 hour Series finale. Then Jimmy Kimmel will have a special show on at 12am. I can't wait for the series finale. I hate to see it go, but will love to see how it ends.
Enjoyable episode with the campfire scene with Jacob being quite a significant moment in Lost history. I was kind of surprised by how so much of the episode played exactly like everyone thought it would. Jack becoming the new island protector kind of surprised me for example precisely because everything had been leading up to that happening. For a show like Lost that enjoys pulling the rug out from under you, to have something play out the way you thought it would was a little unexpected. That's also why I'm not convinced that Jack will remain the island's protector for very long; even though he took the responsibility he didn't seem too sure about it and Jacob's "for as long as you can" comment foreshadowed something ominous to me.
I was also taken aback by Hurley's comment that he was glad he wasn't getting the job. That seemed a little out of character - cowardly and selfish - for him.
I still think both Richard Alpert and Lapidus have roles to play before all is said and done. For characters who have been around so long, I can't believe their exits would be so insignificant.
Looking forward to seeing how it all ends Sunday night. Network TV won't be quite the same when Lost finally ends its run.
But those are small gripes--if they're even gripes. I enjoyed Lost for the last six years, and I'm happy it came to a satisfactory conclusion, with no wide-open endings or patronizing "surprises" like making the entire show the figment of someone's imagination. I'll miss it.
As for not seeing Michael, Walt and Ecko...
For me, the most enduring image of the show will probably be...Kate in that skimpy black dress. Hubba hubba!
Just one question: was the dog there at the end?
Not sure I follow you HB, but I threw in some spoiler tags, just in case...
Now that I'm bright eyed and bushy tailed and was able to read your post more coherently, I was thinking the same thing. You could definitely make the argument that their lives weren't that emotionally fulfilling; at the very least it's safe to infer that none of them ever found another special someone.
Also, the final explanation of what the sideways-verse was begs the question: what was the meaning of that establishing shot of the island underwater from the season premiere? Taken in conjunction with other little conversations - like the one between Daniel and Desmond a few weeks back - would lead me to think that the writers were dropping some red herrings to keep us off the scent.
BTW, did I mention how hot Kate looked in that little black dress? :x :x :x
Gads. . .I was just making a joke about those characters not being in the finale, and so I was saying maybe a wink would have been appropriate. It seems with or without emoticons, I'm so very misunderstood.
Since I'm here, another thing I enjoyed last night were the little tips to this being the final episode of the show. How many times did someone mention--in either universe--that something big was coming at the end? And I loved EviLocke's comment that he was surprised Jacob made such an "obvious" choice for his successor as Jack. But, of course, that itself turned out to be a bit of a red herring. . .
And Kate in the black dress? Oh yes. Yes indeed. . .
Ah, I get it. Such are the vagaries of posts on a chat board; no matter how hard we try our intent can so easily get diffused...much like the meaning of Lost. :007)
Yes, but for me that outcome had been pretty well telegraphed last week when a certain character said "I'm just glad it wasn't me".
I thought the ending was cheap and tacked on but then my faith in Lost has been steadily dropping for the past 2+ seasons. Somewhere between the pointless Temple run-around and the whole "claimed" business I completely lost the will and energy to come up with overly-convoluted B.S. (really a tragic thing if one is still in college
I won't rehash all my problems with the show/finale here but there's a link below where you can read it. There's also an interesting discussion on where the writing went wrong and whether Darlton really had everything planned out from the beginning... fascinating stuff.
http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=3133435&view=findpost&p=12959966
However, I enjoyed the finale and thought it was just as good as any other LOST ending they could've come up with. It ended on a happy note at least, rather than in some Babel-like misery fest.
At first I didn't like the finale and thought they were explicitly trying to make some grand philosophical points, but as I came to realize (in the middle of the night) that the purgatory was just for LOST island folks I started to calm down.
A good show, with a lot of unsolved mysteries, but heck...that gives us something to talk about and the opportunity for a movie!
Actually they were not in purgatory. Everything that happened on the island, actually happened. The season 6 flash sideways set up the season finale where we found out that was a world they created so they could be together. The only thing known back in Season 1, actually before the season started was the Matthew Fox charector of Jack Shepard would die in the season finale. Matthew Fox knew the last shot would be of him closing his eyes.