Actually, I've gone back and checked out your photo of Annette Bening four or five times now. She really is a remarkably attractive woman. We don't see enough of her on onscreen
Welcome back HH, as I recall we didn't always agree, but I always enjoyed your writing, you make well thought out compelling arguments. Like you, I do not get most of the social network stuff, but I do blog on this site, because I enjoy some of the contributors writings.
Now, let's start with our disagreements. CR, a movie I enjoyed, was lacking at times visually, especially the poker game, which was poorly written, devoid of suspense and visually uninteresting.
I love American Beauty, the movie really struck a chord with me, so we agree there, but I also enjoyed Road to Perdition, beautifully shot, I did not have the issue with Hanks character that you did.
As for 2009, best movies I saw, in no special order, Up, Knowing, Public Enemies, Up in the Air and Inglorious Bastards. Terminator Salvation and The Blind Side were pretty good too.
To stay on topic, I think Mendez will provide a very interesting visual style to the film, but as previously stated, I hope he also gets the pacing right.
Welcome back HH, as I recall we didn't always agree, but I always enjoyed your writing...
Now, let's start with our disagreements. CR, a movie I enjoyed, was lacking at times visually, especially the poker game, which was poorly written, devoid of suspense and visually uninteresting.
"Now you've started it, now you've really started it..."
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Mendes seems less likely to make #23 as frantic as QoS was---but then again, I wouldn't have tagged Forster as somebody who would have rushed the narrative, and I'd have been wrong about that I guess that's the biggest worry about 'art house' dramatists being given a huge action film...if a hand's never been on a throttle with that much horsepower behind it, it can be hard to know when to let up...
But I'm with you, HH: we need to see Bond do some actual espionage work this time round. BTW---check out my website, in my signature below. My book's coming out in the spring, and you're definitely in the target audience... B-)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Well. The Jude Law assassin character and key murder scene in Perdition were very effective. But is it action? No, not really. But here's the rub. It excites and is interesting.
So can we move away from the stereotypical chase scene type stuff that the Craig era still seems enthrall to? It doesn't work too well imo and can seem contrived. Let's go for interesting, suspenseful scenes like that one in Perdition (including the atmospheric shootout with Paul Newman no spoilers mind) and a bit of meaty dialogue. We do not need another freefall action scene or some such thing. And most chase scenes descend into a game of catch-up.
Well. The Jude Law assassin character and key murder scene in Perdition were very effective. But is it action? No, not really. But here's the rub. It excites and is interesting.
So can we move away from the stereotypical chase scene type stuff that the Craig era still seems enthrall to? It doesn't work too well imo and can seem contrived. Let's go for interesting, suspenseful scenes like that one in Perdition (including the atmospheric shootout with Paul Newman no spoilers mind) and a bit of meaty dialogue. We do not need another freefall action scene or some such thing. And most chase scenes descend into a game of catch-up.
I agree with you on the 'meaty dialogue' Nap, we did get to see some of that in CR - but it was too few and far between. I really enjoyed the card game scene, but if I remember rightly, that got the most criticism, so it will be interesting to see how they can get the right balance.
I agree with Blueman that the aeroplane scene and sink hole was the beginning of good character defining moments, and although, yes, they could have been longer, it would have looked out of place with the pacing of QoS.
...oh and welcome back High Hopes -{ - like Nap said, there was a thread, dedicated to your absence!
She's worth whatever chaos she brings to the table and you know it. ~ Mark Anthony
I did not suggest there was a thread devoted to highhopes absence, someone else did that! And the aeroplane and sink hole was surely not the beginning of good character defining moments... did Blueman say that? Tosh methinks.
BTW HH check out my film review of Godfather 2 I am sure you will like it...
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
So can we move away from the stereotypical chase scene type stuff that the Craig era still seems enthrall to? It doesn't work too well imo and can seem contrived. Let's go for interesting, suspenseful scenes like that one in Perdition (including the atmospheric shootout with Paul Newman no spoilers mind) and a bit of meaty dialogue. We do not need another freefall action scene or some such thing. And most chase scenes descend into a game of catch-up.
You've got a good point there, NP, and that's one of the reasons I'm happy about Mendes being attached to the project. Although there will always be chases in Bond films, there are alternatives to the balls-out, leaping thru the air stuff we've gotten pretty much nonstop since Timothy Dalton took over from Roger Moore (very welcome change from Geezer Bond at the time, BTW)...and has gotten more pronounced in the Craig Era. I couldn't agree more that a change of pace(ing) is called for with #23.
Suspense, and letting a well-constructed scene unfold, were the hallmarks of Alfred Hitchcock at his best---and arguably were also done well in the Golden Age of Connery Bond. Mendes will need a good script that recalls such elements...but who knows how much latitude the directors really get in such matters, in what have always been producer-driven films?
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I did not suggest there was a thread devoted to highhopes absence, someone else did that! And the aeroplane and sink hole was surely not the beginning of good character defining moments... did Blueman say that? Tosh methinks.
oops sorry, Nap, didn't mean to incriminate you - can I blame the Rose? )
As for the scenes I pointed out, I think they did 'begin' to define character - but like Loeff said, they weren’t long enough - just like the great scene in CR, when Bond is trying to work out Vesper, after he won the card game - for me that scene could have been another 10 minutes at least, but is that what people want? For me, yes, but for the 'majority' of Bond fans, probably not. They like the 'paragliding, surf board' stuff, but perhaps I am making a general sweeping statement.
If Mendes can bring the balance of 'reasonable action' (and by that I mean, no paragliding crap, but some action, that is who Bond is after all) - a bit of gadgetry....and more exploratory character then great {[] It would fit Craig's tenure very well, and 'ace the lob that Forster has set up'
She's worth whatever chaos she brings to the table and you know it. ~ Mark Anthony
Man, no love for QOS the drama-Bond. Well here's some big-ticket drama bits in QOS that were perfect (ie not too short, not too long):
Bond and M in Sienna, then again in London, very nice exchanges that fit the narrative and explored their respective characters - laid the foundation for more throughout the film, even - just fine. In fact their continued back-and-forth and the changes they go through in regards to each other is one of the most rewarding aspects of the film, very unique for the series IMO
Camille and Bond in the sinkhole, her story is IMO a signature moment for the series, Fleming gave many of his female characters such backstories which EON has mostly shied away from filming, Honey in DN immediately comes to mind as a comparative and that's damn fine company in my book. The punctuation to that scene, Bond offering his hand to Camille to help her up, has the same impact for me as Bond comforting Vesper in the shower in CR, more I think as the lead-in isn't separated by another scene, the immediate payoff pays off big time for me. Again, the Bond/Camille relationship arc feels singular in the series to me, the respect and trust that's slowly built up and the climax in the burning hotel room, just wow.
Greene giving Medrano the money, that's a nasty bit of gamesmanship, also rare in the series. Liked the cutaways to even more doom heading Medrano's way with Camille on the prowl for him.
Bond confronting Yusef, then the necklace-drop in the snow. Biggest, baddest emotional ending to a Bond since OHMSS, perfectly realized by Forster and co.
The Bond-Mathis scenes are superb, much better than the rather surfacey connection in CR.
There are more yummy little nuggets of good drama - Bond confronting the Quantum members atop the Tosca eye, Bond confronting Greene at the party (so very understated, I love it!), Bond dropping Greene off in the desert - that while short don't feel thin or rushed to me, just exactly what's needed in context IMO.
If Mendes can craft a dramarific Bond as well as Forster, and included all the nail-biting action along the way ala QOS, I'll be a happy Bond fan - again! He can even slow it down a tad and I won't mind. :007) Rant off (hi Hi!). -{
If Mendes can bring the balance of 'reasonable action' (and by that I mean, no paragliding crap, but some action, that is who Bond is after all) - a bit of gadgetry....and more exploratory character then great {[] It would fit Craig's tenure very well, and 'ace the lob that Forster has set up'
I did not suggest there was a thread devoted to highhopes absence, someone else did that! And the aeroplane and sink hole was surely not the beginning of good character defining moments... did Blueman say that? Tosh methinks.
oops sorry, Nap, didn't mean to incriminate you - can I blame the Rose? )
As for the scenes I pointed out, I think they did 'begin' to define character - but like Loeff said, they weren’t long enough - just like the great scene in CR, when Bond is trying to work out Vesper, after he won the card game - for me that scene could have been another 10 minutes at least, but is that what people want? For me, yes, but for the 'majority' of Bond fans, probably not. They like the 'paragliding, surf board' stuff, but perhaps I am making a general sweeping statement.
If Mendes can bring the balance of 'reasonable action' (and by that I mean, no paragliding crap, but some action, that is who Bond is after all) - a bit of gadgetry....and more exploratory character then great {[] It would fit Craig's tenure very well, and 'ace the lob that Forster has set up'
Hi Lexi -- Of course, I'm tempted to check out this HH-dedicated thread, but with people distancing themselves from it, maybe I'd better not )
But that's all I want from Bond23 -- a better mix of character and action than Quantum of Solace delivered (which is not to say there was no character-development at all -- there was; again, I liked the film, but Casino Royale had it goin' on). And Nape is right (was he as brilliant before my departure as he is now? I forget) -- we really don't need another car chase. Maybe Bond could take the subway.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Yes, that's the key, to me. They were indeed delicious, but too small. And the film wouldn't have necessarily been improved merely by expanding upon them, since that would have thrown the balance out of whack. If, on the other hand, another 20 minutes---over the course of the film---had been expended in certain areas, some of these crucial character and plot elements could have been more effectively fleshed out.
I reiterate---I'm a fan of QoS. It's in my top five or six overall, so I'm not hurling rocks...but the purity of its stated intent, as per Marc Forster---a bullet fired from a gun---is also an inherent congenital flaw, IMRO. So the filmmakers made their bed, and they laid in it. My complaint with Quantum will never be that Eon missed their target; it is that they might not have picked exactly the right target. But the last couple of scenes in the picture are masterful; a brilliant resolution to what CR set up. And now we'll see where Mendes and Co. decide to go next.
As you'd say: FWIW, two cents, et al.
...Hello again, HH...
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
...but the purity of its stated intent, as per Marc Forster---a bullet fired from a gun---is also an inherent congenital flaw, IMRO.
Ahh but I adore the pulpy goodness of that aim/follow-through, feels very Fleming to me and reminiscent of the master at his killing ground/blood and thunder best IMO.
Hey John Drake. I had to go back and edit my first post to include your name. All I could remember was your old Patrick McGoohan icon (or is it an avatar?)
I've switched to Geraldine Chaplin. Not very spy orientated but one of my great movie crushes.
Hey John Drake. I had to go back and edit my first post to include your name. All I could remember was your old Patrick McGoohan icon (or is it an avatar?)
I've switched to Geraldine Chaplin. Not very spy orientated but one of my great movie crushes.
Yeah, she's great. I remember her as Dr. Zhivago's saintly wife. Haven't seen her in a movie in a while, but she's still around, I think. Probably the wrong thread, but have you seen the new "Prisoner" TV show?
I think the quicker pace worked, since it minimized the some of the action scenes that "filled out" the film. I am not really taken with a repeat of the CR rooftop chase, could have lived without the "boat chase" and the "dogfight", but they are over quickly so they are painless to watch.
The "Tosca" gunfight is wonderfully staged, especially when Bond and Greene confront each other! That's a "John Ford" moment. And the wonderful scenes with Mathis really are some of the best in the series, and the use of "Fields" was superb - the best use of a secondary female since "Goldfinger".
Yeah, she's great. I remember her as Dr. Zhivago's saintly wife. Haven't seen her in a movie in a while, but she's still around, I think. Probably the wrong thread, but have you seen the new "Prisoner" TV show?
Chaplin's in the new Wolf Man movie. The Prisoner is getting shown in the UK next month. I've seen the trailer and it looks really interesting.
Yeah! Highhopes is back after a short sabbatical (HH - I suspect you were briefly incapacitated after attempting to mimic Bond's motorcycle leap onto a bobbing fishing boat! I hope your bike made it okay, too!)
As for my take on Sam Mendes...I enjoyed Road to Perdition, and it's one of the few films that have remained in my mind after having only seen it once or twice. Very rare for a film to reach that level for me. Oddly enough, I had forgotten that Craig was in it. I now remember that I purposely watched the film a second time after hearing Craig was announced as the next Bond. Newman was the standout in that film for me. I see nothing about Mendes's work that raises any red flags for the Bond 23...quite the opposite actually.
As for my take on Sam Mendes...I enjoyed Road to Perdition. I see nothing about Mendes's work that raises any red flags for the Bond 23...quite the opposite actually.
"Youre wrong. You're so wrong. And I'll prove you wrong."
The Wall Street Journal this morning has a short interview with Mendez, they ask him if it is true he is directing the next James Bond film. His reply "It's only speculation and you know, at the moment there isn't even a studio to make the James Bond movie because MGM is for sale". Make of that what you will.
Hmm . . . . . . . . . . . . Can't say I'm excited about Sam Mendes being selected to direct. American Beauty was basically a cobbling together of every cliche about modern suburban married life possible, and Road to Perdition was a tedious exercise in how long a so-so gangster movie could be one-note emotionally. Kate Winslett simply grates on my nerves -- she just looks annoying, and I'm tired of hearing about how great an actress she is; I'd prefer she prove it.
Sorry so grumpy about S.M. . . . I suppose it could be worse. They could have selected Kevin Smith or J.J. Abrams.
I'm not sure how I feel about Sam Mendes for Bond... I'm not familiar enough with his work to have an opinion one way or the other. But, I have to say, I may be in the minority here, but I think Kate Winslet would be an Awesome Ms. Moneypenny! I think she and Craig could have some great chemistry.
It can ony be good if that series remains grounded in reality, with real human drama surely? Its what is keeping Bond relevant for today. Mendes could make this a film worth seeing in its own right, not just as a Bond. -{
I never want to see Bond ride a motorcycle off a cliff in pursuit of a plane, skydive to it, climb in and take over the controls ever again.
Dont wait for your ship to come in. Swim out and meet the bloody thing.
Comments
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Actually, I've gone back and checked out your photo of Annette Bening four or five times now. She really is a remarkably attractive woman. We don't see enough of her on onscreen
Now, let's start with our disagreements. CR, a movie I enjoyed, was lacking at times visually, especially the poker game, which was poorly written, devoid of suspense and visually uninteresting.
I love American Beauty, the movie really struck a chord with me, so we agree there, but I also enjoyed Road to Perdition, beautifully shot, I did not have the issue with Hanks character that you did.
As for 2009, best movies I saw, in no special order, Up, Knowing, Public Enemies, Up in the Air and Inglorious Bastards. Terminator Salvation and The Blind Side were pretty good too.
To stay on topic, I think Mendez will provide a very interesting visual style to the film, but as previously stated, I hope he also gets the pacing right.
"Now you've started it, now you've really started it..."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
But I'm with you, HH: we need to see Bond do some actual espionage work this time round. BTW---check out my website, in my signature below. My book's coming out in the spring, and you're definitely in the target audience... B-)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
So can we move away from the stereotypical chase scene type stuff that the Craig era still seems enthrall to? It doesn't work too well imo and can seem contrived. Let's go for interesting, suspenseful scenes like that one in Perdition (including the atmospheric shootout with Paul Newman no spoilers mind) and a bit of meaty dialogue. We do not need another freefall action scene or some such thing. And most chase scenes descend into a game of catch-up.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I agree with you on the 'meaty dialogue' Nap, we did get to see some of that in CR - but it was too few and far between. I really enjoyed the card game scene, but if I remember rightly, that got the most criticism, so it will be interesting to see how they can get the right balance.
I agree with Blueman that the aeroplane scene and sink hole was the beginning of good character defining moments, and although, yes, they could have been longer, it would have looked out of place with the pacing of QoS.
...oh and welcome back High Hopes -{ - like Nap said, there was a thread, dedicated to your absence!
I did not suggest there was a thread devoted to highhopes absence, someone else did that! And the aeroplane and sink hole was surely not the beginning of good character defining moments... did Blueman say that? Tosh methinks.
BTW HH check out my film review of Godfather 2 I am sure you will like it...
Roger Moore 1927-2017
You've got a good point there, NP, and that's one of the reasons I'm happy about Mendes being attached to the project. Although there will always be chases in Bond films, there are alternatives to the balls-out, leaping thru the air stuff we've gotten pretty much nonstop since Timothy Dalton took over from Roger Moore (very welcome change from Geezer Bond at the time, BTW)...and has gotten more pronounced in the Craig Era. I couldn't agree more that a change of pace(ing) is called for with #23.
Suspense, and letting a well-constructed scene unfold, were the hallmarks of Alfred Hitchcock at his best---and arguably were also done well in the Golden Age of Connery Bond. Mendes will need a good script that recalls such elements...but who knows how much latitude the directors really get in such matters, in what have always been producer-driven films?
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
oops sorry, Nap, didn't mean to incriminate you - can I blame the Rose?
As for the scenes I pointed out, I think they did 'begin' to define character - but like Loeff said, they weren’t long enough - just like the great scene in CR, when Bond is trying to work out Vesper, after he won the card game - for me that scene could have been another 10 minutes at least, but is that what people want? For me, yes, but for the 'majority' of Bond fans, probably not. They like the 'paragliding, surf board' stuff, but perhaps I am making a general sweeping statement.
If Mendes can bring the balance of 'reasonable action' (and by that I mean, no paragliding crap, but some action, that is who Bond is after all) - a bit of gadgetry....and more exploratory character then great {[] It would fit Craig's tenure very well, and 'ace the lob that Forster has set up'
Bond and M in Sienna, then again in London, very nice exchanges that fit the narrative and explored their respective characters - laid the foundation for more throughout the film, even - just fine. In fact their continued back-and-forth and the changes they go through in regards to each other is one of the most rewarding aspects of the film, very unique for the series IMO
Camille and Bond in the sinkhole, her story is IMO a signature moment for the series, Fleming gave many of his female characters such backstories which EON has mostly shied away from filming, Honey in DN immediately comes to mind as a comparative and that's damn fine company in my book. The punctuation to that scene, Bond offering his hand to Camille to help her up, has the same impact for me as Bond comforting Vesper in the shower in CR, more I think as the lead-in isn't separated by another scene, the immediate payoff pays off big time for me. Again, the Bond/Camille relationship arc feels singular in the series to me, the respect and trust that's slowly built up and the climax in the burning hotel room, just wow.
Greene giving Medrano the money, that's a nasty bit of gamesmanship, also rare in the series. Liked the cutaways to even more doom heading Medrano's way with Camille on the prowl for him.
Bond confronting Yusef, then the necklace-drop in the snow. Biggest, baddest emotional ending to a Bond since OHMSS, perfectly realized by Forster and co.
The Bond-Mathis scenes are superb, much better than the rather surfacey connection in CR.
There are more yummy little nuggets of good drama - Bond confronting the Quantum members atop the Tosca eye, Bond confronting Greene at the party (so very understated, I love it!), Bond dropping Greene off in the desert - that while short don't feel thin or rushed to me, just exactly what's needed in context IMO.
If Mendes can craft a dramarific Bond as well as Forster, and included all the nail-biting action along the way ala QOS, I'll be a happy Bond fan - again! He can even slow it down a tad and I won't mind. :007) Rant off (hi Hi!). -{
Hi Lexi -- Of course, I'm tempted to check out this HH-dedicated thread, but with people distancing themselves from it, maybe I'd better not
But that's all I want from Bond23 -- a better mix of character and action than Quantum of Solace delivered (which is not to say there was no character-development at all -- there was; again, I liked the film, but Casino Royale had it goin' on). And Nape is right (was he as brilliant before my departure as he is now? I forget) -- we really don't need another car chase. Maybe Bond could take the subway.
Yes, that's the key, to me. They were indeed delicious, but too small. And the film wouldn't have necessarily been improved merely by expanding upon them, since that would have thrown the balance out of whack. If, on the other hand, another 20 minutes---over the course of the film---had been expended in certain areas, some of these crucial character and plot elements could have been more effectively fleshed out.
I reiterate---I'm a fan of QoS. It's in my top five or six overall, so I'm not hurling rocks...but the purity of its stated intent, as per Marc Forster---a bullet fired from a gun---is also an inherent congenital flaw, IMRO. So the filmmakers made their bed, and they laid in it. My complaint with Quantum will never be that Eon missed their target; it is that they might not have picked exactly the right target. But the last couple of scenes in the picture are masterful; a brilliant resolution to what CR set up. And now we'll see where Mendes and Co. decide to go next.
As you'd say: FWIW, two cents, et al.
...Hello again, HH...
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Do you think Morgan put the squid in 23?
I've switched to Geraldine Chaplin. Not very spy orientated but one of my great movie crushes.
Yeah, she's great. I remember her as Dr. Zhivago's saintly wife. Haven't seen her in a movie in a while, but she's still around, I think. Probably the wrong thread, but have you seen the new "Prisoner" TV show?
http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/19328/last-film-seen/page/163/
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I think the quicker pace worked, since it minimized the some of the action scenes that "filled out" the film. I am not really taken with a repeat of the CR rooftop chase, could have lived without the "boat chase" and the "dogfight", but they are over quickly so they are painless to watch.
The "Tosca" gunfight is wonderfully staged, especially when Bond and Greene confront each other! That's a "John Ford" moment. And the wonderful scenes with Mathis really are some of the best in the series, and the use of "Fields" was superb - the best use of a secondary female since "Goldfinger".
I like artsy!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Chaplin's in the new Wolf Man movie. The Prisoner is getting shown in the UK next month. I've seen the trailer and it looks really interesting.
As for my take on Sam Mendes...I enjoyed Road to Perdition, and it's one of the few films that have remained in my mind after having only seen it once or twice. Very rare for a film to reach that level for me. Oddly enough, I had forgotten that Craig was in it. I now remember that I purposely watched the film a second time after hearing Craig was announced as the next Bond. Newman was the standout in that film for me. I see nothing about Mendes's work that raises any red flags for the Bond 23...quite the opposite actually.
"Youre wrong. You're so wrong. And I'll prove you wrong."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Thanks John, married with children, that's me!
Great avatar indeed.
Might as well say it to. Great avatar.
Now, any more news about Sam Mendes?
Sorry so grumpy about S.M. . . . I suppose it could be worse. They could have selected Kevin Smith or J.J. Abrams.