Six (6) things we could have done without in Quantum of Solace
perdogg
Posts: 432MI6 Agent
1. The rape scene. In some films it works, but in QoS it was totally unnecessary. Then to top it off, we get this 3 voyueristic second stare up the woman's skirt.
2. The Faux Goldfinger-oil scene. Since Purvis and Wade were scriptwriters for Die Another Day maybe they didn't have time to this in 'Die Another Day'.
3. The dogfight. Come on, did anyone think Bond was in any danger - no. This was followed up by a Faux Moonraker parachute scene.
4. The killing of the bodyguard at the opera in cold blood. Totally not flemingesque.
5. M's constant anti-male blather. Okay we get it, you are a woman; enough already!
6. The anti-american rubbish in the movie.
2. The Faux Goldfinger-oil scene. Since Purvis and Wade were scriptwriters for Die Another Day maybe they didn't have time to this in 'Die Another Day'.
3. The dogfight. Come on, did anyone think Bond was in any danger - no. This was followed up by a Faux Moonraker parachute scene.
4. The killing of the bodyguard at the opera in cold blood. Totally not flemingesque.
5. M's constant anti-male blather. Okay we get it, you are a woman; enough already!
6. The anti-american rubbish in the movie.
"And if I told you that I'm from the Ministry of Defence?" James Bond - The Property of a Lady
Comments
2. I personally liked the throwback...but hey, you could argue that it wasn't needed. However, I loved the twist at the end with the motor oil in Greene
3. Gosh, I loved the dogfight. Maybe that's because I love dogfights and it was an action packed scene. For that matter, do we ever really think Bond is in danger? If that was the standard by which scenes are cut or not then we would be cutting a lot of scenes. :007)
4. Bond didn't do the killing, Greene's goon did.
5. I must have not caught the anti-male blather. Maybe anti-paternalism and corruption, but not anti-male so much.
6. Eh, there is a time for everything under the sun. They were simply rolling with the times my friend. Take it like a cultural snapshot.
2: I liked this scene...it showed how ruthless Quantum is....okay...it's a 'hark-back' to Goldfinger...but people have been shot in Bond films before so can people not be shot in future films, as it's 'been done' before ?
3: Well....not a particular favourite of mine either...BUT...of course Bond is in danger...or should we not make Bond films because we always know he'll pull through at the end
4: I LOVED the way Bond 'snapped' the tie out of the bodyguards hand forcing him to fall...he didn't know whom the guy was...he was just some goon trying to kill him...Bond got to him first.
5: I agree with youknowmyname....not anti-male blather at all.
6: Really ?
2. I loved that scene so I dont agree. It was a homage done tastefully, something that could just as easily fit in the film if Goldfinger never existed. Unlike the homages in DAD which were forced in your face. Sniffing Klebb's shoe??
3. I thought the dogfight was terrific, and loved how Bond used his brains and ingenuity to overcome far superior enemies instead of using a gadget or something.
4. What killing at the Opera? Greene did the killing, not Bond. And if Bond did do it I dont see how its too cold blooded to be "Fleming-esque" as Bond did far worse in the books.
5. "Ant-male blather"? Where?
6. How was there anything anti-american? What because one bad guy was american? Or because there was one reference to what the yanks did in South America, to which Leiter gave a perfect retort about what the Brits have done?
2. Well, I'm in two minds about this one as I thought the Goldfinger scene was, at that time, 'shocking' and in this one I understand the homage - but it was copied almost too closely - if that makes sence.....
3. Loved this scene - perfect just the way it was..... although I wouldn't leave it that late to pull the cord
4. Well I think this was a homage to The Spy Who Loved Me, Moore did exactly the same thing on the roof.... although Moore killed him outright, whereas this guy wasn't actually dead when he landed :v
5. Oh please...really ???? 8-)
6. Ditto.....
1. The rape scene: It is disturbing.... but illustrates Medrano's villany...gives some urgency to killing him.
2. The Faux Goldfinger-oil scene: I liked it, Gemma looked pretty good bathed in oil.
3. The dogfight: Agreed, it was "filler" we could have done without it.
4. The killing of the bodyguard : OK, but I never liked Moore so an "homage" to his Bond leaves me cold.
5. M's constant anti-male blather: It's not "anti-male" it's more like, "You're out of control", "I can't trust you" "You're cold hearted" "Your full of rage", it's been beaten to death, and I hope the next movie gets rid of this line of dialog or Judy or both!
6. The anti-american rubbish in the movie. Being a card carrying Yank, I can live with a bit of "up the Brits!" now and again.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
1 - I think the scene could have been better shot, compare the scene in QOS to the scene in TB when Largo ties up Domino and shows her the ice and cigerette. The scene cuts to outside the cabin where you hear a scream, the audience knows something terrible has happened, but it isn't thrust in their face. In QOS, the message that the General was going to hurt the woman could have been better conveyed.
2 - Hated that scene, it wasn't a homage, it was a blatent rip-off.
3 - It starts out OK, but quickly becomes unbelievable and the free fall with the parachut opening only seconds from the ground is rubbish.
4 - As I have previously mentioned, the wonderful opera scene was ruined by the fight at the end IMO.
5 - I have never liked the M - Craig relationship, but can't say I find it anti-male.
6 - As another Yank I wasn't bothered by this, I am quite aware many people don't like us, so the fact that some anti-American talk takes place in a movie is OK by me.
Bond should have been concerned with learning more about Greene rather than blowing his cover to save a girl who meant nothing to him.
As for the other issues: I liked everyone of them. Including the attempted rape scene which I thought was in tune with the character of Medrano and with the tougher tone of the Craig films.
I thought the allusion to TSWLM (one of many) was very well-done. And the allusion to GF, while not very subtle, was okay and fit the theme well enough.
Re-watching QoS I think we could've, just could've done without the CGI'd dog-fight scene. Although I like the spirit of the scene, it's execution could've gone better.
About the boat chase scene: I rather liked that one and thought it fit in well. Of course he sacrifices the mission for the girl...that's the development of the Bond character. He lost the girl last time (Vesper) and now he's prone to try and save the damsel in distress, no matter the cost.
The only thing that looks good on Gemma is me!!!!
Check.
Bond films are not the place for rape scenes. All the other movies playing seem to be pre-occupied with rape, so let's keep Bond films free of it.
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Homage to past Bond films are like self-references that break the fourth-wall and remind audiences that they watching a movie.
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It was not convincing in any case.
Well ... it was not out of character for Bond films. Tilly Masterson in Goldfinger, Paula in Thunderball. I was more annoyed with the gunfight montage. Impressionism doesn't work in Bond films. It could have been such a dynamic action scene, Bond fighting his way out of the Opera House.
Check.
It's not just the anti-male blather, it's the anti-male characterizations of all the male characters. All the men are reprehensible in the recent Bonds, including Bond. This militant feminist perspective has spoiled the series for me.
Check.
They do pile it on a bit thick. I don't mind the two countries being a little testy with each other like in Dr. No (as represented by Jack Lord's Felix Leiter), but the portrayal of the CIA as corrupt and in collusion with the enemy pushes it too far. I want to see civility and professionalism restored to the Bond films.
Do you know what's really needed?
Different producers. A change at the top. An entirely new and different creative team who would approach the films with a positive outlook and who would emulate the first two entries in the series.
Richard
The problem is this series has on gone are far too long and to get such a drastic change in leadership and creative vision now wouldn't really amount to anything. Any other group of producers would only perverse the concept of Bond or simply rip off what Eon has already done. I would agreed had been brought up in 1974 and chances are fresh, young minds still saw this series as it should be, spy thrillers.
I think there is one remote chance left for this series to go back something of the glory days. Someone has to "Out-Bond" this series. Someone has to be bold enough and do a series that is clearly a rip-off of Bond but respecting what Bond used to be, fantastic yet cleverly written spy thrillers. This will get EON to think that people want the genuine article again if said rip-off becomes a box-office smash. This will probably never happen but I think it's the only logical solution to the series' creative bankruptcy.
http://apbateman.com
It was a left wing sentiment. "Oil is wrong" blah, blah, blah. I wouldn't care if this was some whiny Matt Damon or Sean Penn film but QOS was suppose to be Bond and such matters needn't concern the franchise. Keep this s*** out of the films and just entertain.
Then another thing that annoyed me was how ignorant M and Felix Leiter were in this film when it came to the geo-political stuff. Felix was like "We deal with bad guys ! Oh no!" and M was appauled that a government is after oil. C'mon, these people have been around long enough to realize that both of their organizations have been doing this stuff for a long, long time.
2. Gemma Arteton is beautiful, talented, and in the media responding to critics - she has proved she has sass! The oily scene here though was a weak, blatent retread of Goldfinger. - Homage's should be subtle. This scene proved not all of DAD's mistakes had been learnt from.
3. I can't comment on any of the car chase, boat stunts or plane dogfight because I literally can't watch them. The cutting and pacing is so painfully fast I got a migrane both times I tried to watch them at the cinema. - Due to arty farty crap ideas from the director and a talentless film editor, the efforts of the actors, stuntmen, and driving / piloting professionals is completely wasted in all these scenes. By the way - what exactly did happen to M when Mitchell is unmasked as a Quantum agent?!
4. All the Bonds have done this at least once, in one of their films. Its just another weak homage to me - it mirrors Schandler's death at Bond's hands in TSWLM. All that was missing was "PYRAMIDDDDDS!" (Shakes head)
5. I love Dame Judi as M - but I must admit, she is a new M for a new Bond. Change the record!!! Give her something else to go on about. - Hopefully if we are given some of the other 00s as well as MPenny and Q, they can open up new dynanics for M. But I agree. Drop the renegade Bond mantra, make better use of a great actress please!
6. I actually applauded this. Its not the American people that is given a shady underbelly here, its Felix L's CIA superiors in this story. Which mirrors the fact there is a dark underbelly to the House of Commons too, as M discovers. Mind you, her comments from CR reflect that too. MPs are not to be trusted. (No change there then!) Plus as Bond points out himself, - the right people get to keep their jobs at the end. Felix L is another character we could do with seeing more of.
Points 1, 2, 3 and 5 all highlight that QOS is still looking backwards. - The next Bond film needs to be its own animal, as Casino Royale was.
I think probably the closest studios have come to "out Bonding" Bond have been through the Bourne films and 24 (Both their protagonists even have the same initials)
It's not really what I would call "Out Bonding" because they are going far more for "gritty realism". I am talking about emulating the character in his hey day.
Bond in his heyday was the epitamy of political incorrectness. Would that really be accepted nowadays? Im not so sure.
Which is exactly why the only answer is to end the series altogether.
She escapes down the tunnel.....if you watch the scene again you can see her running away to safety.
I really liked the scene where the politico tells M matter-of-factly, "The world's running out of oil." It was a nice bookend to the torture scene in CR when Bond sees the "big picture," that Le Chiffre can murder him and still get protection as long as MI6 and the CIA need what he knows. No nationalism or honor, just the needs of the government, and all else is expendable.
The worst bit of the parachute scene is probably when bond calls out to camille, "come here" while they're in freefall, as if the thought hadn't ocurred to her.
http://apbateman.com
Regarding the other issues:
1. The rape scene didn't bother me so much in concept as in placement. Of all the times that it could have been shown, why then? It would have made more sense had we seen Medrano victimize the girl earlier and then, afterward, the poor, shaken young woman has to serve him as though nothing had happened. That would have made him even more monstrous, and then when he's actually scared of Quantum, Quantum even more frightening. And did they have to pick an actor so Shrek-like in his physicality?
2. The oil thing was stupid. It wasn't even ironic because the bad guys weren't after oil. Drowning her in strawberry jam would have made more sense because of the pun on her first name -- that's how Bond finds out. I'm not arguing that should have been done; I'm saying at least it would have made some sense.
3. The dogfight was neither here nor there for me. All the yak yak about making the scene retro because they used some old planes? And as with so many moments in Quantum of Solace, it was just another opportunity to visually plagiarize earlier Bonds.
4. The killing at the opera would have been better if they'd killed Haines instead of his bodyguard. Or, better, if Haines executed the bodyguard because he talked to Bond, and in a moment of inspiration, Haines is then executed because the bad guys realize that will really make things difficult for 007.
5. M's attitude is one of the few things that is about as good as the original Bonds.
About the anti-American dialogue . . . I think there was more anti-British dialogue, especially that whole issue of Felix Leiter being bemused that an Englishman would have the nerve to be lecturing an American about the problems with imperialism.
http://apbateman.com
No...the 'oil thing' was clever...it kept SIS thinking this was about oil...why tell prople what you're actually up to ?