Is there a Flemingist case for Moonraker/TSWLM the movies?

perdogg · August 2010

Eventhough neither stories were envisioned by Ian Fleming, is a there Flemingesque quality about them? I believe that Moore's performance in TSWLM was probably one of his more Flemingesque as Bond, not so much in Moonraker.

Although I would prefer a "Hell is here" Moonraker and a "Shady Pines" Spy Who Loved Me, but both movies were good summer fare.

Ricardo C. · August 2010

I am sorry but no; Nothing remotely Fleming in either films. Those were summer blockbuster "romps".

zaphod · August 2010

No.

thesecretagent · August 2010

I don't think either were Flemingesque. I particularly find it hard to find similarities between Moonraker the book and Moonraker the film. It's quite tragic given that the book is one of Fleming's best.

Barbel · August 2010

A little game I used to play many years ago was to try and write the back-cover blurb for one of Fleming's books so that it could be applied equally well to the film, even when there wasn't much in common-

Assigned by M to look into the enigmatic Hugo Drax, Bond soon finds out that there’s more than philanthropy behind the multi-millionaire’s backing for the Moonraker programme. The stakes are high for 007 and his lovely companion – the highest Bond has ever played for....

Thunderbird 2 · August 2010

I love both of the films, and the book Moonraker (Not read TSWLM, at least yet)

However, the others are right. Both films TSWLM and Moonraker are original story takes to fit the box office mantra of the time. The former is a Moore era take on You Only Live Twice, using Submarines in place of the Space race, and Moonraker the movie was blatantly chasing the Star Wars / Close Encounters / Star Trek TMP boom going on at the time. - This is apparent in as much that TSWLM promised Bond to return in FYEO. - it was gazumped by Moonraker!
Both these films are Bond as Sci Fi. That I don't have a problem with. However, Flemming's Bond is much more cold thriller than Sci Fi. Again, I have not read YOLT, so I can't be 100% certain on how it comes across.

The only subtle reference to the source material in the films, is in Moonraker. Sir Fred Grey makes a throwaway reference - "I play cards with this fellow Drax." However you wold only know that is a reference if you have read the book!

Sometimes its best to quietly accept that original author, and later "interpreter" - film, tv, computer game, successor novels, will go off on their own seperate paths.

Barbel · August 2010

Thunderbird 2 wrote:

The only subtle reference to the source material in the films, is in Moonraker. Sir Fred Grey makes a throwaway reference - "I play cards with this fellow Drax."

No, there are others-

Drax is on the surface a benevolent multi-millionaire, underwriting the Moonraker programme, but has a much more sinister motive underlying. (Admittedly this is pretty generic of Bond villains- but Drax was the first example)

Bond uncovers and averts Drax's scheme. (Of course)

One of Drax's most trusted staff, an attractive female, is in fact working for an organisation with which Bond is familiar and his Service is friendly. After some initial resistance she teams up with our man, and her inside technical knowledge proves vital to Bond and the mission.

Drax attempts to incinerate Bond and Gala/Holly beaneath the exhaust of the Moonraker - they escape via a vent.

Ricardo C. · August 2010

It's really a shame there never has been a proper adaptation of Moonraker. Like I said on another thread, I would love to have seen this as a film directed by Alfred Hitchcock.

perdogg · August 2010

Ricardo C. wrote:

It's really a shame there never has been a proper adaptation of Moonraker. Like I said on another thread, I would love to have seen this as a film directed by Alfred Hitchcock.

Would you do this story as a retro-Bond? Who would you cast to play Gala Brand?

Ricardo C. · August 2010

perdogg wrote:

Ricardo C. wrote:

It's really a shame there never has been a proper adaptation of Moonraker. Like I said on another thread, I would love to have seen this as a film directed by Alfred Hitchcock.

Would you do this story as a retro-Bond? Who would you cast to play Gala Brand?

Yes, I would like to this one on film. Maybe if EON could do what they did with the Christie mystery novels, put them on television. As for casting Gala Brand, I have no idea.

Thunderbird 2 · August 2010

Barbel wrote:

Drax attempts to incinerate Bond and Gala/Holly beaneath the exhaust of the Moonraker - they escape via a vent.

Aargh, brain cramp! I should have remembered that one, its one of my all out favorite "how will Bond escape this?!" moments!

Re a proper adaptation of Moonraker, its not impossible in the future. Casino Royale has been done twice. (Sort of!) Maybe Eon / Danjaq may consider a true adaptation of the Moonraker book in a similar vein in the future?

Napoleon Plural · August 2010

Fleming's novels had their outlandish aspects; it's wrong to think that the espionage flicks like FRWL and TLD are somehow more Flemingesque. Let's not forget that the novel MR was his first attempt to draft a movie, when it didn't materialise it became the novel, ditto with Thunderball with added legal complications.

Only the last section of MR is sci-fi and it's only following the format of other Bonds in having him in an outlandish villain HQ.

An icy sophisticated millionaire mastermind, cool brunette Bond girl, Oriental henchman, well-meaning sacrificial lamb (Corrinne), exotic locations, irascible but loyal male M... there's plenty of Fleming stuff here, and I'd argue that the movie Drax is a more Fleming villain than the odious ogre of the novel.

Loeffelholz · August 2010

Agreed, NP...in a broad sense, there's a natural Flemingist^TM case to be made for even the most outlandish cinematic Bond outings. It's easy to forget how Fleming's books were derided by the 'Elites' of their day.

Ricardo C. · August 2010

Napoleon Plural wrote:

and I'd argue that the movie Drax is a more Fleming villain than the odious ogre of the novel.

Then your selling the man short because Drax was rather dull, Stromberg II except he was being played by a better actor. Besides, there were always some boorish aspects of the villians despite their sophistication. Goldfinger having sex with woman painted gold, Doctor No's bizarre appearance,the thuggish Fransico Scarmanga, and the totally insane Blofeld in You Only Live Twice.

As for the fantastic elements of these films reflecting Fleming, again I disagree. If I actually believed anything OTT is Fleming then I would have to accept the atrocity that is Die Another Day as loyal to Ian's vision. ARGH ! Fleming took the plausiable and kicked it up a notch. Giant Squids are quite real, so are third nipples, and mechanical pincers for hands. Fish-handed men who build supertankers that can kidnap submarines and someone who could pruchase the Eiffel Tower is too outlandish.

Ricardo C. · August 2010

Thunderbird 2 wrote:

Re a proper adaptation of Moonraker, its not impossible in the future. Casino Royale has been done twice. (Sort of!) Maybe Eon / Danjaq may consider a true adaptation of the Moonraker book in a similar vein in the future?

I wish but I doubt they would adapt it as a Hitchcock-esque spy thriller the novel was.

thesecretagent · August 2010

I think a quality TV series of Bond set in the time of the novels, sticking exactly to the novels would be great. Poirot worked really well as a one/two hour programme and so did Foyle's War. There would be a great sense of nostalgia and much of what was described in the novels would not exceed budgets too much with lavish action scenes. Goldfinger's golf scene, the card game in Casino Royale - these are scenes that kept me turning the pages - taught, suspensful writing which would transfer to the small screen really well.

Manxman · August 2010

I think it's instructional to read Christopher Wood's novelisation of "The Spy Who Loved Me" as "James Bond, The Spy Who Loved Me", in which he takes the film script and "Flemingises" it. Among other interesting changes, the character of General Gogol is transformed from the avuncular figure of the film into a grotesque man with a badly-fitted toupée, fondness for sexually harassing his female staff and a penchant for torture (almost like a male Rosa Klebb) and there's an extra scene in which Russian agents torture Bond with electric shocks to his testicles before he kills them with their own apparatus. Wood also adds very well-written, and very interesting, backstories for Stromberg and Jaws. Overall, it's a fine book and actually rivals Fleming at his very best.

There are also some nice Fleming touches in the film, particularly in the scene where Bond admits to Anya that he shot her boyfriend, and reflects on the risks and short life expectancy of his profession.

As for "Moonraker", Fleming must have turned in his grave: it's nothing more than a silly camp sci-fi comedy, and only once does Moore actually get to do any acting (the scene where he exits the centrifuge terrified, and instead of offering a quick quip or exploiting Holly's guilt to leverage some sex, simply pushes her away and staggers off). The novelisation of this one is no great shakes either, proving that you can't transform a sow's ear into a silk purse.

Bond Collectors' Weekends · August 2010

Christopher Wood's novelization are both excellent.

Many more details (expanded time events) are given that create a "Fleming sweep".

perdogg · August 2010

Bond Collectors' Weekends wrote:

Christopher Wood's novelization are both excellent.

Many more details (expanded time events) are given that create a "Fleming sweep".

I would love to see a retro-Bond for a real TSWLM.

Napoleon Plural · August 2010

Er, like Ian Fleming's actual novel? ?:)

perdogg · August 2010

Gerry Anderson version of Moonraker

http://www.mi6forums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=52438&highlight=

Number24 · August 2010

The Bond movie that borrows most from the Mooraker novel is DAD if memory serves me.
The backstory of gustav Graves mirrors Hugo Drax's backstory.

Is there a Flemingist case for Moonraker/TSWLM the movies?

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