Never say never again
Denzil2222
Posts: 77MI6 Agent
I think its a good bond movie better than alot of eon movies, i dont know why so many bond fans hate it and hate mcclory like it or not spectre belongs to mcclory he come up with it, blofeld, and largo, eon were assholes to try to stop jack swartzman and kevin mcclory from making never say never again. In fact never say never again was the best bond movie of the 1980s untill timothy dalton came along in 87.
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http://apbateman.com
It's a lot more than debatable- entire court cases have been held over that point
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_McClory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Whittingham http://homecinema.thedigitalfix.co.uk/content.php?contentid=62153 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/1512950.stm
the first of which Fleming's friend Ivar Bryce (also involved in the whole sorry mess) felt contributed markedly to Fleming's first heart attack and Bryce was obliged to alter the text of his book You Only Live Once owing to legal issues surrounding the case.
Indeed a book has been written covering the whole Thunderball/Never Say Never Again/Warhead 2000 etc story-
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Bond-Second-Robert-Sellers/dp/0955767008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_for_Bond
At this point in time, it's only possible to say that the idea of SPECTRE and Blofeld was thought up by some combination of:
Ian Fleming (IMHO the names are certainly his)
Kevin McClory
Jack Whittingham
Ivar Bryce
Ernest Cuneo (muse)
I know about the whole Thunderball issue and Sellers' book though I never read the book. The way I see it is Fleming brought this down on himself, he should have told Whittingham and McClory that he was going to turn Thunderball into a book.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Fleming seemed very determined to make James Bond appear on some visual medium since he wrote Casino Royale; He sold the television rights of that book to CBS. As you said, Fleming attempted to have Moonraker adapted into a film. Fleming again turned back to television and what eventually became Doctor No was originally suppose to be a pilot for a television series called Commander Jamaica. Lastly, the For Your Eyes Only compilation were all stories that were suppose to be for a James Bond TV show. I would like to have seen some of these ideas come to fruition and as I said before, I would have loved to have seen Moonraker intact directed by Alfred Hitchcock during the 1950's.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I both agree and disagree. In my view it is a terrible film, and a poor Bond movie- (so cheap looking, truly awful muzak...) but it's still preferable the 80's Bonds.
It's really shocking to see who was behind the score; Micheal Legrand did some great work for two Steve Mcqueen films, The Cincinnati Kid and Le Mans. This crap he did for Never Say Never Again is on par with Jimmy Page's work for Death Wish II and III.
And Richard Donner also had the good sense to decline the director's chair.
Brandauer actually did a terrific job but the way the character is written he seems to disdant from the entire film. Unlike the original Largo who thought of very little but the mission at hand, this one is just sort of a nut who is obessed with Domino. He just did not make a strong central villian. In general, none of the characters seem to be involved in this film at all. Nigel Small-Fawcett should have been in some sort of parody film of James Bond or a Pink Panther adventure, Fatima Blush was enjoyable but hardly threatening or intelligent and more suited for a episode of the 60's Batman TV show, and M is nothing more than a comic foil. The only ones that seemed to be involved in this film were Bond and Domino but they are not enough to carry this film. Lorenzo Semple Jr. wrote the screenplay for this film and he was a key writer and script supervisor for the Batman TV show and it shows. Also I am curious as what you found so impressive of Benard Cassey's Leiter, I found him to as big of a non-entity as Max Von Sydow's Blofeld.
I will admit one thing, this could have been worse. The film McClory wanted to do back in the late 1970's had a script written by Connery and Len Deighton and it's stupidity was beyound belief. Let give you an example: A shark with robotic limbs.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
The most embarrasing moment of Octopussy is that chase with Kamal's henchmen after Bond left Kamal's club. I can forgive some of the corny stuff during the chase with the vechicles but it's the foot chase that was terrible. All of a sudden Bond stumbles upon a street where everyone is doing "Indian" things. Can you imagine a simular scene in Live and Let Die ? Lord ! Though it does come awfully close.
Also you're right about the film in general but I have to admit I love that entire sequence of Bond going after the bomb at the circus, for the only time in the film there is actually exiciting suspense and non-embarrassing humor.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Octopussy herself was a really dull character who did nothing and her backstory was only scarely developed; What was this "Octopus" cult exactly and how did she manage to revive it ? Also after Goldfinger and Diamonds Are Forever, we'd expect some cleverness to the jewerly smuggling. Oh boy, she hid the jewels under a cannon, yawn. You're also right about the sumbmissiveness, I didn't mind Kara Milovy being tamed since she was very niave but this so call expert thief who runs a criminal empire ? Please !
Note the octopus tattoo Bond notices and checks out with Q branch is similar to his noticing the Tong sign tattoo on Count Lippe at Shrublands all those years ago.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Magda was here name. I liked her a lot better than Octopussy.
So for most of Thunderball there are no twists and turns, Bond is just sitting on Largo's tail. They try to mess about with this in NSNA with an added location - the South of France - and in TB the movie with the jet pack thing in the pts, but it's such a simple plot in the novel that they have to work hard to make the whole thing more interesting, and it becomes instead quite convoluted.
I see TB the novel as a three-part serial on TV - first part is at Shrublands, second part is bomb taken and out in Nassau, third part is finale.
BTW it really seems a dumb coincidence that Domino is the sister of Petacchi, who works for Spectre in a temporary capacity. I think the films made this more deliberate, ie it's no coincidence at all, but it tells you something when I can't even remember for sure.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Fleming novels are chock full coincidences but they do serve their purpose of introducing the villain in a quiet atmosphere and building the escalation.
Also the worst thing by far of the film adaptation is the hijacker of the bomber is a double who kills the genuine article. That's 60's Batman material.