I think it is important to note the following based on Mac's respond:
1. Refund will be an issue - Mac prefers not to provide refunds.
2. You will get only 50% back if you request now - the other is already paid for "production"
(This of course don't make sense - production is not a "go" until we have approved sample and final pricing)
3. If this cufflinks ever get made - the buyer will receive it no matter what it turns out and the deal is done.
ie. no refunds if not satisfied - all costs have been paid - no money left (apparently)
Also please note Paypal deadline of 45 days - otherwise I hope you use your credit card and you can also go direct with the Credit Card Co.
I opened a dispute through Paypal yesterday, asking for a full refund.
I sent a message to mac in the dispute, asking for my money back. He replied:
"From Seller - Kate Macauley3/30/2011 23:06 GMT+02:00
I have already given you a 50% refund of £98 to buy the Quantum of Solace cufflinks two days ago.
I have sent the other remaining 50% (£98) of the £196 to the cufflink company, and you were aware that there was a 50% deposit at the start—you made no objections. You agreed that you would rather take the £98 that I refunded you two days ago to pay for another pair of cufflinks and forfeit the remaining £98 to the project. As such, it is simply unfair for you to ask for the remaining £98 as you know it has been paid to the cufflink company, and I am then out of pocket. The moderator doesn't know what he's talking about, as he has no idea what I am doing behind the scenes collecting information. These cufflinks will be completed.
Like they say: "Hindsight is 20/20." But you agreed to all the terms once you paid with no objections. It is unfair for me to be out of pocket on this.
I hope you close this case so we can sort it out amicably.
BTW, it is also very unfair to request full payment way so early - why the need to gather such funds? I really like to hear an explanation on that. Please.
Also, it is unfair for the buyer not to be able to back off if he sees something not meeting expectation as they were initially promised. If he paid for a Lexus, you can't give him Toyota later ok - not fair.
I opened a dispute through Paypal yesterday, asking for a full refund.
I sent a message to mac in the dispute, asking for my money back. He replied:
"From Seller - Kate Macauley3/30/2011 23:06 GMT+02:00
I have already given you a 50% refund of £98 to buy the Quantum of Solace cufflinks two days ago.
I have sent the other remaining 50% (£98) of the £196 to the cufflink company, and you were aware that there was a 50% deposit at the start—you made no objections. You agreed that you would rather take the £98 that I refunded you two days ago to pay for another pair of cufflinks and forfeit the remaining £98 to the project. As such, it is simply unfair for you to ask for the remaining £98 as you know it has been paid to the cufflink company, and I am then out of pocket. The moderator doesn't know what he's talking about, as he has no idea what I am doing behind the scenes collecting information. These cufflinks will be completed.
Like they say: "Hindsight is 20/20." But you agreed to all the terms once you paid with no objections. It is unfair for me to be out of pocket on this.
I hope you close this case so we can sort it out amicably.
I want to complete this project for everyone involved. Sure, if the FINAL product isn't up to scratch, I will refund everyone involved as that would obviously be deception on my part. However, to simply change your mind after I've sent 50% of the money away and then ask for it all back is unfair on me. If you choose to pull out half way through, you will lose your deposit—this is standard for all "projects" etc. There was a 50% deposit made at the start, so you will lose it if you pull out. Can I be any more clear about that?
I gave everyone a final price of £196 weeks ago. They all agreed to pay it up front, no one ever asked if they could do half and half—and yes, this was after the 50% at the start; 50% at the end statement was made.
This thread still is above gutter level, with me at least. I am dealing with everyone involved who has legitimate questions. Like I said, the measurements were wrong. I was provided them from a member on this forum, and they clearly were a little off. I've already stated my position of the copyright numerous times. As for the "awful workmanship"—it is a prototype, made in such a way to save money so if we need to do more prototypes (which we invariably will have to do) it won't cost us more.
I trust and hope that the final product will be as I have described and that all members will be satisfied with the outcome. -{
I think it is important to note the following based on Mac's respond:
1. Refund will be an issue - Mac prefers not to provide refunds.
2. You will get only 50% back if you request now - the other is already paid for "production"
(This of course don't make sense - production is not a "go" until we have approved sample and final pricing)
3. If this cufflinks ever get made - the buyer will receive it no matter what it turns out and the deal is done.
ie. no refunds if not satisfied - all costs have been paid - no money left (apparently)
Also please note Paypal deadline of 45 days - otherwise I hope you use your credit card and you can also go direct with the Credit Card Co.
I opened a dispute through Paypal yesterday, asking for a full refund.
I sent a message to mac in the dispute, asking for my money back. He replied:
"From Seller - Kate Macauley3/30/2011 23:06 GMT+02:00
I have already given you a 50% refund of £98 to buy the Quantum of Solace cufflinks two days ago.
I have sent the other remaining 50% (£98) of the £196 to the cufflink company, and you were aware that there was a 50% deposit at the start—you made no objections. You agreed that you would rather take the £98 that I refunded you two days ago to pay for another pair of cufflinks and forfeit the remaining £98 to the project. As such, it is simply unfair for you to ask for the remaining £98 as you know it has been paid to the cufflink company, and I am then out of pocket. The moderator doesn't know what he's talking about, as he has no idea what I am doing behind the scenes collecting information. These cufflinks will be completed.
Like they say: "Hindsight is 20/20." But you agreed to all the terms once you paid with no objections. It is unfair for me to be out of pocket on this.
I hope you close this case so we can sort it out amicably.
Not entirely true - there are ways around that - I just hope you use your credit card.
PM me if anybody need help.
Hopefully it won't come to that and maybe people could do stuff with their credit card company if worst comes to the worst but as far as PayPal is concerned I think it is entirely true – it's right there on their web site?
Things I hate:
1. People who hate things.
2. Irony.
3. Lists.
If you choose to pull out half way through, you will lose your deposit—this is standard for all "projects" etc.
is it? i've tried googling 'standard practise for making $hit' but I can find the 'set in stone' commandments that you seem to be working from.
If the deposit wasn't fully refundable, you should have stated this clearly before taking any money. Also, why did you need to take full payment before the item went into production? Was this a demand from your silversmith?
I am dealing with everyone involved who has legitimate questions.
But there are still comments, questions and concerns raised by both investors and spectators with this project. To settle some nerves, maybe you should address these people's thoughts?
Like I said, the measurements were wrong. I was provided them from a member on this forum, and they clearly were a little off.
The measurements being a little off isn't an issue. Remember you're making a new design, based on what you've seen in the Dupont design. In my opinion you shouldn't have needed the original Dupont sizes in the first place, otherwise you're skating very closely to breaking copyright laws.
As for the "awful workmanship"—it is a prototype, made in such a way to save money so if we need to do more prototypes (which we invariably will have to do) it won't cost us more.
Sorry Mac, but this is total BS. The prototype you showed had a hollowed out back to it. To hollow out this cavity would have taken the maker longer than to simple file the brass to the right shape. Have you not heard of 'time is money'? The only reason you would hollow the back out is to save on silver during the casting stage. The amount of silver you would save is virtually sod all, so this hollowed approach is pointless. It also goes against your statement that the cufflinks would be solid.
I am believe Mac is under the age of 18 which will explain why the PayPal account he is using is in another person's name (family member?). Members might need to be aware of this if proposing PayPal disputes etc.
Apparently a moderator contacted TomSawyer and told him I have no intentions of completing this project, and as such he should get a refund.
I've contacted TomSawyer and this isn't true - he thought it was from a moderator...it wasn't....I've asked him to post here to confirm this....
Hello, just logged in again..
What Sir Miles says is true. I am unfamiliar with ranks in this forum, and I apologize for assuming instead of knowing wether or not it was a mod that sent me a message @ gmail.
However I feel it does not make very much difference, when an adult member of a respectable and serious forum contacts me and gives me his opinion and advice, wether it is a mod or not.
I have not seen anywhere Mac informing any terms to anyone, and it seems he chose to withhold such information, or worse; making it up when someone feels inclined to leave.
What happens to the other 50% if the end product fails to impress. Should they get a full refund then as opposed to now, when the product isn't even in production yet?
I want to complete this project for everyone involved. Sure, if the FINAL product isn't up to scratch, I will refund everyone involved as that would obviously be deception on my part. However, to simply change your mind after I've sent 50% of the money away and then ask for it all back is unfair on me. If you choose to pull out half way through, you will lose your deposit—this is standard for all "projects" etc. There was a 50% deposit made at the start, so you will lose it if you pull out. Can I be any more clear about that?
There was no deposit, it wasn't even brought up..
Btw, I still have not received the £98 or 50% in my account from Mac...
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,769Chief of Staff
What Sir Miles says is true. I am unfamiliar with ranks in this forum, and I apologize for assuming instead of knowing wether or not it was a mod that sent me a message @ gmail.
However I feel it does not make very much difference, when an adult member of a respectable and serious forum contacts me and gives me his opinion and advice, wether it is a mod or not...
First off...thank you for clearing that up.
Secondly...it DOES make a big difference...to infer it was a moderator makes it look as though we say one thing on the boards and another behind members backs...and that isn't true. We need to be clear on that.....and your facts need to be straight before you make such statements.....as they caused some friction.
Funny how at first Mac said to pay him and you could get refunded through Paypal. And not that he is paid, there is a 50% deposit that is non-refundable.
And if he only sent 50% to the producer, what is he doing with the other 50%???
If you can't trust a Swiss banker, what's the world come to?
The deal as I saw it from the start was something like this:
1: Participants send you their money(total of £196) as proof they were able to pay you if they so wanted to buy the cufflinks once they had seen the prototype and was pleased with what was presented. IOW you could say that you LOANED their money for awhile(although[as others have noted] this is a strange way of doing this, and not at all the best way).
2:If however, they were displeased with what they saw(prototype) or had any other reason that they wanted to leave the project, they would get FULL REFUND, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. In the same manner that they entered. Any talk about paying the company before they even had come up with a prototype just seems unrealistic and unnecessary.
3: Continually posting updates in the public thread that you created for this very purpose. Withdrawing because of people being anxious, highly interested or giving negative feedback(this is an internet forum after all, and a very serious and good one) is not a legit reason IMO. It is a long time since this thread was started and people's Paypal insurances disappeared, this is your responsibility for asking any money before anyone even knows what they are giving their money to! Of course people get irritated, maybe even angry over this.
Comments
And that's me without sugar....
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
1. Refund will be an issue - Mac prefers not to provide refunds.
2. You will get only 50% back if you request now - the other is already paid for "production"
(This of course don't make sense - production is not a "go" until we have approved sample and final pricing)
3. If this cufflinks ever get made - the buyer will receive it no matter what it turns out and the deal is done.
ie. no refunds if not satisfied - all costs have been paid - no money left (apparently)
Also please note Paypal deadline of 45 days - otherwise I hope you use your credit card and you can also go direct with the Credit Card Co.
Also, it is unfair for the buyer not to be able to back off if he sees something not meeting expectation as they were initially promised. If he paid for a Lexus, you can't give him Toyota later ok - not fair.
I gave everyone a final price of £196 weeks ago. They all agreed to pay it up front, no one ever asked if they could do half and half—and yes, this was after the 50% at the start; 50% at the end statement was made.
This thread still is above gutter level, with me at least. I am dealing with everyone involved who has legitimate questions. Like I said, the measurements were wrong. I was provided them from a member on this forum, and they clearly were a little off. I've already stated my position of the copyright numerous times. As for the "awful workmanship"—it is a prototype, made in such a way to save money so if we need to do more prototypes (which we invariably will have to do) it won't cost us more.
I trust and hope that the final product will be as I have described and that all members will be satisfied with the outcome. -{
FYI... payments for custom made items are not are eligible for re-imbursement under PayPal Buyer Protection.
Section 13.3 https://cms.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&fli=true&content_ID=ua/SellerProtection_full&locale.x=en_GB
1. People who hate things.
2. Irony.
3. Lists.
PM me if anybody need help.
Hopefully it won't come to that and maybe people could do stuff with their credit card company if worst comes to the worst but as far as PayPal is concerned I think it is entirely true – it's right there on their web site?
1. People who hate things.
2. Irony.
3. Lists.
is it? i've tried googling 'standard practise for making $hit' but I can find the 'set in stone' commandments that you seem to be working from.
If the deposit wasn't fully refundable, you should have stated this clearly before taking any money. Also, why did you need to take full payment before the item went into production? Was this a demand from your silversmith?
But there are still comments, questions and concerns raised by both investors and spectators with this project. To settle some nerves, maybe you should address these people's thoughts?
The measurements being a little off isn't an issue. Remember you're making a new design, based on what you've seen in the Dupont design. In my opinion you shouldn't have needed the original Dupont sizes in the first place, otherwise you're skating very closely to breaking copyright laws.
Repeating something doesn't make it right/lawful. Be careful here.
Sorry Mac, but this is total BS. The prototype you showed had a hollowed out back to it. To hollow out this cavity would have taken the maker longer than to simple file the brass to the right shape. Have you not heard of 'time is money'? The only reason you would hollow the back out is to save on silver during the casting stage. The amount of silver you would save is virtually sod all, so this hollowed approach is pointless. It also goes against your statement that the cufflinks would be solid.
Me too, for your sake as much as anyone elses. Please don't destory any member's confidence and faith in ajb by having this project fall on its arse.
Hope you find this post helpful and constructive,
MG -{
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
NMS
But I have a hard time figuring out if the cuffs are in production or not? Is there a estimated delivery time when they go into production?
I have to admit, that genuinely made me laugh! Nice one, MG!
NMS
I've contacted TomSawyer and this isn't true - he thought it was from a moderator...it wasn't....I've asked him to post here to confirm this....
Hello, just logged in again..
What Sir Miles says is true. I am unfamiliar with ranks in this forum, and I apologize for assuming instead of knowing wether or not it was a mod that sent me a message @ gmail.
However I feel it does not make very much difference, when an adult member of a respectable and serious forum contacts me and gives me his opinion and advice, wether it is a mod or not.
I have not seen anywhere Mac informing any terms to anyone, and it seems he chose to withhold such information, or worse; making it up when someone feels inclined to leave.
What happens to the other 50% if the end product fails to impress. Should they get a full refund then as opposed to now, when the product isn't even in production yet?
There was no deposit, it wasn't even brought up..
Btw, I still have not received the £98 or 50% in my account from Mac...
First off...thank you for clearing that up.
Secondly...it DOES make a big difference...to infer it was a moderator makes it look as though we say one thing on the boards and another behind members backs...and that isn't true. We need to be clear on that.....and your facts need to be straight before you make such statements.....as they caused some friction.
And if he only sent 50% to the producer, what is he doing with the other 50%???
I couldn't find a fork so the BBQ tongs will have to do, see Dave you only had to ask.
I bet Paul will have a moment to himself over this one, sexy beast that I am.
Pete, weren't you in 'Return of the Jedi' throwing rocks at Stormtroopers?
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Hey, is that a request, I have ears for it also
Or Jack Daniels lol
NMS
Is that bars on the window of your cell Pete?
The deal as I saw it from the start was something like this:
1: Participants send you their money(total of £196) as proof they were able to pay you if they so wanted to buy the cufflinks once they had seen the prototype and was pleased with what was presented. IOW you could say that you LOANED their money for awhile(although[as others have noted] this is a strange way of doing this, and not at all the best way).
2:If however, they were displeased with what they saw(prototype) or had any other reason that they wanted to leave the project, they would get FULL REFUND, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. In the same manner that they entered. Any talk about paying the company before they even had come up with a prototype just seems unrealistic and unnecessary.
3: Continually posting updates in the public thread that you created for this very purpose. Withdrawing because of people being anxious, highly interested or giving negative feedback(this is an internet forum after all, and a very serious and good one) is not a legit reason IMO. It is a long time since this thread was started and people's Paypal insurances disappeared, this is your responsibility for asking any money before anyone even knows what they are giving their money to! Of course people get irritated, maybe even angry over this.