Mac just posted another comment on the dispute...:
"Feel free to let PayPal decide it. However, it clearly states in their "User Agreement for PayPal Service" in section 13.3 of the "PayPal Buyer Protection" section: "Payments for the following are not eligible for re-imbursement under PayPal Buyer Protection: custom made items" These cufflinks were a custom project and so would not be eligible for a refund. You've said many times "several people have advised" and even claimed moderators on the forum have advised you to do certain things—it appears you are invariably making up things that phantom people have said since you are having second thoughts about this project. I am sorry to hear that but the PayPal rules clearly state you won't get a refund. As such, I would advise you to close the dispute. Thanks, Mac."
Thank you Mac, for being a liar now.. If my intentions were inspired by malice, why in the world would I have given you my money without question to begin with?
You are basically saying that everyone in this forum that would have second thoughts simply wouldn't get their full refund at all. I have to ask you now that you ahve revealed this information, is it really true that you have sent 50% of everyone's money to this company of yours? Clearly you wouldn't have to since, as you say, Paypal wouldn't help us anyway since it is a custom made item..
I still havent received my "other" 50% yet. Should I worry about that? I would obviously loose if I let Paypal decide...
Why do you want me to close it? I opened a dispute because I want the full refund, are you saying you would pay it to me after all?
Even so, one could argue that everything is custom made..
Phantom people? Read the thread and maybe you would notice that maybe some people are concerned with how other members are treated and might feel inclined to offer opinions and advice. At the time of claiming a mod contacted me, I had no idea he was not a mod, but he certainly sounded convincing and well intentioned, so I assumed he might as well be.
Yes, if they decide to pull out half way through they would lose their 50% deposit as it has already been sent. I have no intentions of ripping people off and your accusations of such are childish and baseless. I am simply stating PayPal's facts.
You should contact PayPal about the other 50% as it has cleared on my end. I told you to do this yesterday, but I suppose you haven't?
No I won't pay it to you, and neither will PayPal. The rules are in black and white on the page and you're simply wasting my time and your own time by escalating it to a claim. Your best bet would be to contact PayPal to find out where the £98 I refunded to you a few days ago is, and to close the dispute you have with me.
Oh, come on! If I was to sell you a t-shirt that I had bought from a shop and it had a large rip in it, you would get a refund because it wasn't as described, for example. However, since I am the one custom making the product (or enlisting others to) you will not get a refund. These are not my rules, they are PayPal's. I don't understand what you don't get? PayPal won't give you the money back.
Yes, if they decide to pull out half way through they would lose their 50% deposit as it has already been sent. I have no intentions of ripping people off and your accusations of such are childish and baseless. I am simply stating PayPal's facts.
You should contact PayPal about the other 50% as it has cleared on my end. I told you to do this yesterday, but I suppose you haven't?
No I won't pay it to you, and neither will PayPal. The rules are in black and white on the page and you're simply wasting my time and your own time by escalating it to a claim. Your best bet would be to contact PayPal to find out where the £98 I refunded to you a few days ago is, and to close the dispute you have with me.
Oh, come on! If I was to sell you a t-shirt that I had bought from a shop and it had a large rip in it, you would get a refund because it wasn't as described, for example. However, since I am the one custom making the product (or enlisting others to) you will not get a refund. These are not my rules, they are PayPal's. I don't understand what you don't get? PayPal won't give you the money back.
So anyone who sounds well-informed is a mod?
Don't be cocky Mac, you could face legal action if you act like that to all the people who paid you money.
If you can't trust a Swiss banker, what's the world come to?
There have been many questions raised, and not many enough answered.
Such as why would you ask for the complete amount/£196 right away.
Wouldn't it have gotten more buyers if you waited with payments until you had a prototype to show people?
And another is when is this project actually getting started? What have your company told you so far?
Judging from what we have seen, it is right back where it started in february. Are you really surprised people are getting heated up? Do you blame them?
So you knew the rules of Paypal beforehand, was it so in case people tried to leave, you knew they would be stuck in the mud?
I have tried to be as calm and as reasonable as possible while I have been getting **** thrown in my face. There are a number of people who are accusing me of ripping people off when there was a poor FIRST prototype. PayPal's rules clearly state that custom made projects are not subject to re-imbursement. However, I am giving 50% back to anyone who wants to pull out now. If I wanted to steal the money I would have been gone weeks ago and would never have made a prototype. Those are not my intentions.
The ironic thing is, I have been getting the most support from the people who have paid me to complete this project. The majority of them seem to trust that I will finish this project.
I have tried to be as calm and as reasonable as possible while I have been getting **** thrown in my face. There are a number of people who are accusing me of ripping people off when there was a poor FIRST prototype. PayPal's rules clearly state that custom made projects are not subject to re-imbursement. However, I am giving 50% back to anyone who wants to pull out now. If I wanted to steal the money I would have been gone weeks ago and would never have made a prototype. Those are not my intentions.
The ironic thing is, I have been getting the most support from the people who have paid me to complete this project. The majority of them seem to trust that I will finish this project.
Because they wouldn't dare to think they could be mistaken?
All I can ask is that you close the dispute on PayPal as it will be subject to the rules of PayPal, and you won't "win" it. That's not me trying to be smug or cocky, just trying to save us all time.
I am going to my bed now, and I will speak to you tomorrow, where hopefully cooler heads will prevail.
TomSawyer,
Did you pay Mac by Credit card?
If so you can go straight to your credit card and dispute the charge, forget Paypal (you can keep Paypal in the loop but it will be beyond them) - Mac will have to prove that he deliver the product- if not they will go after him. I have done it before and it works great.
Rule #1 - always use Credit Card - the best is Amex.
-{
I am still here Wilde, I am still unrelated to Mac, and my sole interest remains the cufflinks. While I have not caught up with all of the recent posts, I still believe that people who take on a project of this nature should be given a chance to get it right and to fix any mistakes they have made. I still believe that judgement fell too swiftly following the first photos of the deficient prototype. If Mac was a fraudster, he would not be engaging in dialogue. He would be spending his ill-gotten cufflink gains on wild women and drink, while planning a diabolical replica-tie heist. For my sins, I currently live between planes and hotel rooms, and you will forgive me if the quality of internet connections in such Eastern paradises as Astana and Ulan Bator does not permit more regular checking in with the ajb007 cufflink forum. And did you know that this site is frequently blocked in China? Perhaps an affiliation with Her Majesty's Secret Service is suspected...
now that we are clear about the refunds (or non-refunds), I'd like to ask, for what Mac paid the silversmith for with 50% of his budget. I mean, even if PayPal rules rule out custom-made items, he should give a proper reason, why he denies to return the money!
It can't be for the first prototype and if he's claiming having bought silver from it, silversmiths usually work with Silver accounts. Which means, the material is there and the client pays, when the production has started or is finished - but not in advance!
It's totally unclear to me, why Mac refused to refund downpayments in full (except the calculation bases on a certain number and will be obsolete, if there are less takers).
On a general remark (and I am not being sarcastic or unconstructive) I find it sad, that Mac does not handle the FULL refund of prepayments as fast and easy like he was TAKING the money from everyone without having anything sustancial in hands.
As we are talking about confidence and courage and support for fan-based projects here, my 2 cents are, that he did great harm to any future project on this board by denying a FULL refund.
And as I am including me to the persons, who have been called unconstructive and worse, let me make it clear:
I support everyone with his project - but I'll not help in violating copyright.
And after the prototypes showed up here, all my concerns about Mac's seriousness knowledge became true and the non-full-refund thing is just a continuity of all this. Plus he comes only up here to fight with his critics, he does not turn up to give us a proper update.
If his cufflinks look like the originals at the end and don't breach copyright, I'll be the first one here to apologize and applaud to him
And just for the record: I never accused Mac to rip off people here. I have had a lot of pms in the last days. Many people feel that way,. I don't
My take is, that Mac was dealing with the money in the same irresponsible and naive matter like he was dealing with all concerns re. copyright and with the prototype. How can anyone in his right mind present such a thing to the paying audience? 8-)
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
For once I'm almost lost for words! Mac's refusal to give members refunds is appalling to say the least. Setting aside the argument that PayPal does not give refunds for custom items I think giving a full refund to those who seek it is the 'right thing to do'. If not this whole story will end particularly badly not only for Mac and forum members who have paid but also the AJB community as a whole. Personally I would refund all members and take the hit myself if I were in Mac's shoes and if I genuinely felt the project still have real potential I would fund it myself bringing a quality finished product back to the forum. Only my opinion but perhaps worth considering. One thing is for sure, this is Mac's first and last AJB project as I seriously doubt any members will trust him in future ventures.
It is extremely sad events have unfolded as they have and I fear the ramifications of this will echo around this forum long after this thread/project come to whatever conclusion it does.
TomSawyer,
Did you pay Mac by Credit card?
If so you can go straight to your credit card and dispute the charge, forget Paypal (you can keep Paypal in the loop but it will be beyond them) - Mac will have to prove that he deliver the product- if not they will go after him. I have done it before and it works great.
Rule #1 - always use Credit Card - the best is Amex.
-{
Unfortunately I did not use a credit card but a debit card!
It all goes through Paypal, unless my bank would be willing to pursue, but I dont have much knowledge about cards or bank policies really.
I am getting a credit card in the near future btw.
I have now received the 98£ in my bank. Sorry for giving you a hard time about that, when it was clearly Paypal processing very slowly.
However, the main reason I want the rest now, is that I need to pay a bill very soon and I carry an empty wallet in my pocket. That is why I've been so insisting about getting the refund as soon as possible.
I did offer to discuss the rest of the amount at a later time @ my gmail message, because at that time I did not have money-trouble, so I did not mind that it could take some time getting the full refund.
I still believe I am in my full right to get the full refund from you.
Reasons: read the questions asked in previous posts by me and other members!
All,
I’ve been reading this for quite some time now, I have a vested interest as I have paid in full and again being up front, please don’t PM me after you read this, folks, I’ll just delete them, there are only two people on this board who’s opinions I value.
So here is my c£200.00 worth of views, firstly, this is a riot of fun to read! As stated I have paid MAC in full and completely relaxed about the whole thing, my reasons are completely selfish, my budget won’t stretch to the originals and I would quite like to have something similar, it will no doubt take MAC a lot of time and effort and quite frankly I couldn’t be arsed doing it. Tell you what though, after reading these posts I’d never even consider trying to do it, far too much hassle for no reward.
These are projects where people choose to invest their personal time, we should thank them for that, help and encourage and motivate and guide them. I find it extremely distressing and, I am professionally qualified to say this, abhorred by the verbal bullying and harassment that is being shown towards someone who, with clearly good intentions got of their backside and tried to make a positive contribution to our community It amuses me that people who have no vested financial interest in this project use words like ”Naive, Irresponsible, Copyright Theft, IPR” Good grief, I didn’t realise that we had so many IPR Lawyers, Jewellery Designers, Project Managers, Management Consultants all ready to kick this project off who clearly feel slighted by MACS oversight in not getting them involved from the get go.
I think it’s great that he has shown some initiative and my advice to MAC is as follows:
Keep Calm and Carry On
Refund the deposits of the people that want them, if you can.
Finish what you have started, if you want help, ask, I have some time and will see what I can do.
Never even think about doing something like this again, I certainly wouldn’t.
And, before some of you attack me, which some of you will do, understand this, I don’t care or value your opinion if you are going to be negative, I really don’t, I am supremely confident in myself as an individual and live a life that you could only dream of, certain people on this board clearly have too much time on their hands and no other way to express their frustration at how the world doesn’t value their expert opinion on almost anything.
This is a real shame as at the weekend I was going to photograph and post some pictures of my travels and my Bond collection, certainly not limited to but including CK2000’s, Connery Era Cufflinks and incidentals, Brioni Dinner Jacket, Pens, my Bond trips to Piz Gloria, Istanbul, Cuba, Hong Kong, Edinburgh, Cairo, Shark Diving in the Bahamas and my recent trip to Tokyo to name but a few. I can’t be bothered now as I don’t want to share them with some of the people on this board, petulant? maybe? However that’s me.
I live like Bond every day, if you saw me in the street you could probably guess that from the way I dress, but living like Bond is also state of mind, one thing Bond always seems to do is help the underdog, he is after all nothing more than a Civil Servant in a small obscure department doing a low paid job for purely altruistic reasons.
I live like Bond every day, if you saw me in the street you could probably guess that from the way I dress, but living like Bond is also state of mind, one thing Bond always seems to do is help the underdog, he is after all nothing more than a Civil Servant in a small obscure department doing a low paid job for purely altruistic reasons.
Truer words were never spoken. Bond's character reminds me of Alan Shore's (from Boston Legal)—he doesn't practise law to make money, he does it simply to help people. He gives away thousands of dollars to people "as an experimentation programme: it's called we the fortunate should endeavour to help the less fortunate. I'm sure it will never fly."
And, before some of you attack me, which some of you will do,
understand this, I don’t care or value your opinion if you are going to be negative, I really don’t, I am supremely confident in myself as an individual
and live a life that you could only dream of, certain people on this board clearly have too much time on their hands and no other way to express their frustration at how the world doesn’t value their expert opinion on almost anything.
I do not believe James Bond would ever brag, that must be one of those traits that makes him James Bond..
Also, as a side note: in psychology, bragging is not a sign of confidence but quite the opposite. Confident people don't have the need to prove anything.
I'm off to do something far more interesting, MAC I'll PM you my email address, get me the cufflinks whenever, I appreciate all the efforts and sacrifice you have chosen to make to push a project forward.
And, before some of you attack me, which some of you will do,
understand this, I don’t care or value your opinion if you are going to be negative, I really don’t, I am supremely confident in myself as an individual
and live a life that you could only dream of, certain people on this board clearly have too much time on their hands and no other way to express their frustration at how the world doesn’t value their expert opinion on almost anything.
Comments
Thank you Mac, for being a liar now.. If my intentions were inspired by malice, why in the world would I have given you my money without question to begin with?
You are basically saying that everyone in this forum that would have second thoughts simply wouldn't get their full refund at all. I have to ask you now that you ahve revealed this information, is it really true that you have sent 50% of everyone's money to this company of yours? Clearly you wouldn't have to since, as you say, Paypal wouldn't help us anyway since it is a custom made item..
I still havent received my "other" 50% yet. Should I worry about that? I would obviously loose if I let Paypal decide...
Why do you want me to close it? I opened a dispute because I want the full refund, are you saying you would pay it to me after all?
Even so, one could argue that everything is custom made..
Phantom people? Read the thread and maybe you would notice that maybe some people are concerned with how other members are treated and might feel inclined to offer opinions and advice. At the time of claiming a mod contacted me, I had no idea he was not a mod, but he certainly sounded convincing and well intentioned, so I assumed he might as well be.
You should contact PayPal about the other 50% as it has cleared on my end. I told you to do this yesterday, but I suppose you haven't?
No I won't pay it to you, and neither will PayPal. The rules are in black and white on the page and you're simply wasting my time and your own time by escalating it to a claim. Your best bet would be to contact PayPal to find out where the £98 I refunded to you a few days ago is, and to close the dispute you have with me.
Oh, come on! If I was to sell you a t-shirt that I had bought from a shop and it had a large rip in it, you would get a refund because it wasn't as described, for example. However, since I am the one custom making the product (or enlisting others to) you will not get a refund. These are not my rules, they are PayPal's. I don't understand what you don't get? PayPal won't give you the money back.
So anyone who sounds well-informed is a mod?
Don't be cocky Mac, you could face legal action if you act like that to all the people who paid you money.
Such as why would you ask for the complete amount/£196 right away.
Wouldn't it have gotten more buyers if you waited with payments until you had a prototype to show people?
And another is when is this project actually getting started? What have your company told you so far?
Judging from what we have seen, it is right back where it started in february. Are you really surprised people are getting heated up? Do you blame them?
So you knew the rules of Paypal beforehand, was it so in case people tried to leave, you knew they would be stuck in the mud?
The ironic thing is, I have been getting the most support from the people who have paid me to complete this project. The majority of them seem to trust that I will finish this project.
Because they wouldn't dare to think they could be mistaken?
Not a pleasant feeling..I know now
All I can ask is that you close the dispute on PayPal as it will be subject to the rules of PayPal, and you won't "win" it. That's not me trying to be smug or cocky, just trying to save us all time.
I am going to my bed now, and I will speak to you tomorrow, where hopefully cooler heads will prevail.
Thanks,
Mac.
Did you pay Mac by Credit card?
If so you can go straight to your credit card and dispute the charge, forget Paypal (you can keep Paypal in the loop but it will be beyond them) - Mac will have to prove that he deliver the product- if not they will go after him. I have done it before and it works great.
Rule #1 - always use Credit Card - the best is Amex.
-{
It can't be for the first prototype
It's totally unclear to me, why Mac refused to refund downpayments in full (except the calculation bases on a certain number and will be obsolete, if there are less takers).
On a general remark (and I am not being sarcastic or unconstructive) I find it sad, that Mac does not handle the FULL refund of prepayments as fast and easy like he was TAKING the money from everyone without having anything sustancial in hands.
As we are talking about confidence and courage and support for fan-based projects here, my 2 cents are, that he did great harm to any future project on this board by denying a FULL refund.
And as I am including me to the persons, who have been called unconstructive and worse, let me make it clear:
I support everyone with his project - but I'll not help in violating copyright.
And after the prototypes showed up here, all my concerns about Mac's seriousness knowledge became true and the non-full-refund thing is just a continuity of all this. Plus he comes only up here to fight with his critics, he does not turn up to give us a proper update.
If his cufflinks look like the originals at the end and don't breach copyright, I'll be the first one here to apologize and applaud to him
And just for the record: I never accused Mac to rip off people here. I have had a lot of pms in the last days. Many people feel that way,. I don't
My take is, that Mac was dealing with the money in the same irresponsible and naive matter like he was dealing with all concerns re. copyright and with the prototype. How can anyone in his right mind present such a thing to the paying audience? 8-)
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Peter – love you suit… ( I think I have seen it before lol)
www.007jamesbond.dk
http://thedangermen.com/
It is extremely sad events have unfolded as they have and I fear the ramifications of this will echo around this forum long after this thread/project come to whatever conclusion it does.
NMS
... or alternatively a bunch of brave-behind-a-keyboard geeks who just like stoking someone else's ruck.
I just can't quite decide in all cases.
I need to stop reading this board first thing in the morning over coffee...second day in a row I did a 'spit-take' on my computer...LMAO Peter!
Or perhaps you're just Mac's alter ego.
Unfortunately I did not use a credit card but a debit card!
It all goes through Paypal, unless my bank would be willing to pursue, but I dont have much knowledge about cards or bank policies really.
I am getting a credit card in the near future btw.
I have now received the 98£ in my bank. Sorry for giving you a hard time about that, when it was clearly Paypal processing very slowly.
However, the main reason I want the rest now, is that I need to pay a bill very soon and I carry an empty wallet in my pocket. That is why I've been so insisting about getting the refund as soon as possible.
I did offer to discuss the rest of the amount at a later time @ my gmail message, because at that time I did not have money-trouble, so I did not mind that it could take some time getting the full refund.
I still believe I am in my full right to get the full refund from you.
Reasons: read the questions asked in previous posts by me and other members!
I’ve been reading this for quite some time now, I have a vested interest as I have paid in full and again being up front, please don’t PM me after you read this, folks, I’ll just delete them, there are only two people on this board who’s opinions I value.
So here is my c£200.00 worth of views, firstly, this is a riot of fun to read! As stated I have paid MAC in full and completely relaxed about the whole thing, my reasons are completely selfish, my budget won’t stretch to the originals and I would quite like to have something similar, it will no doubt take MAC a lot of time and effort and quite frankly I couldn’t be arsed doing it. Tell you what though, after reading these posts I’d never even consider trying to do it, far too much hassle for no reward.
These are projects where people choose to invest their personal time, we should thank them for that, help and encourage and motivate and guide them. I find it extremely distressing and, I am professionally qualified to say this, abhorred by the verbal bullying and harassment that is being shown towards someone who, with clearly good intentions got of their backside and tried to make a positive contribution to our community It amuses me that people who have no vested financial interest in this project use words like ”Naive, Irresponsible, Copyright Theft, IPR” Good grief, I didn’t realise that we had so many IPR Lawyers, Jewellery Designers, Project Managers, Management Consultants all ready to kick this project off who clearly feel slighted by MACS oversight in not getting them involved from the get go.
I think it’s great that he has shown some initiative and my advice to MAC is as follows:
Keep Calm and Carry On
Refund the deposits of the people that want them, if you can.
Finish what you have started, if you want help, ask, I have some time and will see what I can do.
Never even think about doing something like this again, I certainly wouldn’t.
And, before some of you attack me, which some of you will do, understand this, I don’t care or value your opinion if you are going to be negative, I really don’t, I am supremely confident in myself as an individual and live a life that you could only dream of, certain people on this board clearly have too much time on their hands and no other way to express their frustration at how the world doesn’t value their expert opinion on almost anything.
This is a real shame as at the weekend I was going to photograph and post some pictures of my travels and my Bond collection, certainly not limited to but including CK2000’s, Connery Era Cufflinks and incidentals, Brioni Dinner Jacket, Pens, my Bond trips to Piz Gloria, Istanbul, Cuba, Hong Kong, Edinburgh, Cairo, Shark Diving in the Bahamas and my recent trip to Tokyo to name but a few. I can’t be bothered now as I don’t want to share them with some of the people on this board, petulant? maybe? However that’s me.
I live like Bond every day, if you saw me in the street you could probably guess that from the way I dress, but living like Bond is also state of mind, one thing Bond always seems to do is help the underdog, he is after all nothing more than a Civil Servant in a small obscure department doing a low paid job for purely altruistic reasons.
i stopped reading here.
arrogance is a totally disgusting trait.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Truer words were never spoken. Bond's character reminds me of Alan Shore's (from Boston Legal)—he doesn't practise law to make money, he does it simply to help people. He gives away thousands of dollars to people "as an experimentation programme: it's called we the fortunate should endeavour to help the less fortunate. I'm sure it will never fly."
Thank you, kind Sir.
He might be that Commander Bond I was telling you about from Victoria :v
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrogance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance
I totally agree, minigeff! Well said!
NMS
To me it's more sad than anything else.
I totally agree with you on that one too, well said!
NMS
And, before some of you attack me, which some of you will do,
understand this, I don’t care or value your opinion if you are going to be negative, I really don’t, I am supremely confident in myself as an individual
and live a life that you could only dream of, certain people on this board clearly have too much time on their hands and no other way to express their frustration at how the world doesn’t value their expert opinion on almost anything.
Also, as a side note: in psychology, bragging is not a sign of confidence but quite the opposite. Confident people don't have the need to prove anything.
Please do keep it up, it's hilarious
NMS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollocks :v