Thread will not be edited, moved or closed. We believe that as adults we can continue conversations of this nature, usually to positive fruition. To close it now would only create a negative moment...and the creator of the post has asked to continue. Let's give the gent the deference of some time and perseverance.
Absolutely right, Dave.
Rightly or wrongly, I detect a feeling that far too many members would prefer to see Mac fail rather than succeed.
I could be wrong in this conclusion - and hope I am - but if I am right then it reflects badly on ajb and particularly on those individuals concerned.
I just want to add my thoughts to this as an AJB member and prop maker if I may.
Looking through this thread, I think that Mac has been badly let down by the manufacturer/jeweller. I can add from personal experience that I've found him to be utterly reiable and honest in my dealings with him.
I think however upfront payments were a mistake, I speak here from personal experience when I had a project going (not James Bond) and life and problems got in the way and all hell broke loose. Purely because, and rightly so, people have paid hard earned money and get the jitters.
I would however encourage some faith in a project that was started with the best of intentions and I'm sure that will be fulfilled even if it has to overcome some obstacles along the way.
I am in no way connected with this project or with Mac personally aside from a couple of purchases, but he has never given me any cause to think ill of him.
i'm hoping any past comments from me were useful to mac, and that he gets this project to a successful conclusion.
hopefully the progress wont' go under the carpet and we'll all be able to help out mac, whether we're buyers or not, so that he can make a good job of it.
after all, lessons can be learnt here that can be applied to other people's projects, and as a community, it'd be a shame for mac to feel he needs to keep it off the radar.
also, if he mentions saying his jeweller's name on here, he might bag himself, and his buyers a bit of a discount.
i'm hoping any past comments from me were useful to mac, and that he gets this project to a successful conclusion.
hopefully the progress wont' go under the carpet and we'll all be able to help out mac, whether we're buyers or not, so that he can make a good job of it.
after all, lessons can be learnt here that can be applied to other people's projects, and as a community, it'd be a shame for mac to feel he needs to keep it off the radar.
also, if he mentions saying his jeweller's name on here, he might bag himself, and his buyers a bit of a discount.
I agree. I'm kind of hesitant to go too far as I'm not part of this project, but I think the less secrets the better. I think most people would have appreciate an open response. May well pick up some more buyers that way.
I don't think anybody wants Mac to fail. The issue here is that he took the money way too early - and not little money.
It is good to think positive and be optimistic, but you have to think about the other outcome too.
Everyone who paid up could potentially lose their moeny - the project is too far away from final delivery.
Why the need to take the money so early on? 45 days is the cut off for the claim - keep that in mind.
Take the money early eliminate that option.
What if the product is not to your satisfaction and it has three month out. Nothing you can do but to accept it?
People who had paid up should really consider the above. If Mac is true and fair he should refund people if he fails to deliver by the 45 days. People will still buy his stuff if he should complete it to the required standards.
Again, I have seen how bad a project like this can turn out and don't want people here to get hurts - I see the glass half full as I have been burned before.
Thread will not be edited, moved or closed. We believe that as adults we can continue conversations of this nature, usually to positive fruition. To close it now would only create a negative moment...and the creator of the post has asked to continue. Let's give the gent the deference of some time and perseverance.
Absolutely right, Dave.
Rightly or wrongly, I detect a feeling that far too many members would prefer to see Mac fail rather than succeed.
I could be wrong in this conclusion - and hope I am - but if I am right then it reflects badly on ajb and particularly on those individuals concerned.
I don't think anybody wants Mac to fail. The issue here is that he took the money way too early - and not little money.
It is good to think positive and be optimistic, but you have to think about the other outcome too.
Everyone who paid up could potentially lose their moeny - the project is too far away from final delivery.
Why the need to take the money so early on? 45 days is the cut off for the claim - keep that in mind.
Take the money early eliminate that option.
What if the product is not to your satisfaction and it has three month out. Nothing you can do but to accept it?
People who had paid up should really consider the above. If Mac is true and fair he should refund people if he fails to deliver by the 45 days. People will still buy his stuff if he should complete it to the required standards.
Again, I have seen how bad a project like this can turn out and don't want people here to get hurts - I see the glass half full as I have been burned before.
Thread will not be edited, moved or closed. We believe that as adults we can continue conversations of this nature, usually to positive fruition. To close it now would only create a negative moment...and the creator of the post has asked to continue. Let's give the gent the deference of some time and perseverance.
Absolutely right, Dave.
Rightly or wrongly, I detect a feeling that far too many members would prefer to see Mac fail rather than succeed.
I could be wrong in this conclusion - and hope I am - but if I am right then it reflects badly on ajb and particularly on those individuals concerned.
Fair comments all, of course, and I do hope you're right that no one on here wants to see Mac fail.
But it does wrly amuse an English cynic like me that those making the most "anti-Mac" noise are those who have NOT invested and placed their trust in him, rather than those who have. But that's just me.
However, what I do hope is that this turns out well for Mac and his supporters.
But it does wrly amuse an English cynic like me that those making the most "anti-Mac" noise are those who have NOT invested and placed their trust in him, rather than those who have.
Very good point.
I have been a victim of abuse and false accusations myself on this forum & others, therefore, I know too well what it is like to be called something I am not. I proved those people wrong and received apologies from those people (on other forums), so Mac - I hope you get this sorted asap. Even though I am not a customer, I look forward to seeing the finished product and you proving the doubters wrong, but you must do that, otherwise you will let down a lot of members here, including me.
Best wishes,
Adam Carter-Jones Bondposters.com - FREE James Bond Poster Reference site
I don't think anyone has stated they want Mac to fail. Re-reading through this thread it is obvious people are unhappy with the current state of affairs. What I am personally unhappy about is the fact Mac has decided on a public forum to now continue the project, in the face of the difficulties outline above, behind the scenes and in near secret. While some members may not have invested money into this project they are entitled, as AJB community members, to know what is going on. As in any other walk of life once money is involved (some £1600 of it) the process should be transparent and seen by all to be above board. Taking this away from the eyes of members is a very poor decision and can only leave one suspicious of what is now going on. If all is above board why not continue to update members in this thread rather than keep quiet on it? This is my concern and regardless of other members opinions I have a right to express this and demand answers!
I don't think anyone has stated they want Mac to fail. Re-reading through this thread it is obvious people are unhappy with the current state of affairs. What I am personally unhappy about is the fact Mac has decided on a public forum to now continue the project, in the face of the difficulties outline above, behind the scenes and in near secret. While some members may not have invested money into this project they are entitled, as AJB community members, to know what is going on. As in any other walk of life once money is involved (some £1600 of it) the process should be transparent and seen by all to be above board. Taking this away from the eyes of members is a very poor decision and can only leave one suspicious of what is now going on. If all is above board why not continue to update members in this thread rather than keep quiet on it? This is my concern and regardless of other members opinions I have a right to express this and demand answers!
NMS
I agree with what you say.
But I do empathise with Mac as I stopped posting on forums altogether a while back because of the lies & such being spread about me - it does affect one's thoughts of the forum experience. Mac got sick of all the attacks and decided to keep any comments and advances private for the contributors to the project - this is a stance everyone must acknowledge, whatever the feeling toward him.
When Mac feels ready to display all updates here, I am sure he will do, but for as long as the attacks continue publicly and not privately like he has asked, then I don't believe a resolution will be found within this thread.
Send him a pm and see what he says to you personally.
Surely that is better than waiting for a reply here?
Best wishes,
Adam Carter-Jones Bondposters.com - FREE James Bond Poster Reference site
I don't think anyone has stated they want Mac to fail. Re-reading through this thread it is obvious people are unhappy with the current state of affairs. What I am personally unhappy about is the fact Mac has decided on a public forum to now continue the project, in the face of the difficulties outline above, behind the scenes and in near secret. While some members may not have invested money into this project they are entitled, as AJB community members, to know what is going on. As in any other walk of life once money is involved (some £1600 of it) the process should be transparent and seen by all to be above board. Taking this away from the eyes of members is a very poor decision and can only leave one suspicious of what is now going on. If all is above board why not continue to update members in this thread rather than keep quiet on it? This is my concern and regardless of other members opinions I have a right to express this and demand answers!
NMS
I agree with what you say.
But I do empathise with Mac as I stopped posting on forums altogether a while back because of the lies & such being spread about me - it does affect one's thoughts of the forum experience. Mac got sick of all the attacks and decided to keep any comments and advances private for the contributors to the project - this is a stance everyone must acknowledge, whatever the feeling toward him.
When Mac feels ready to display all updates here, I am sure he will do, but for as long as the attacks continue publicly and not privately like he has asked, then I don't believe a resolution will be found within this thread.
Send him a pm and see what he says to you personally.
Surely that is better than waiting for a reply here?
Hi Adam
I appreciate what you say and understand your point-of-view - thank you. I would love to see Mac's project come to fruition and see members end up with a quality product which meets all their expectations. Mistakes have been made and guidance and advice given which I am sure Mac is now following. I wish him success but just feel he ought to keep us informed publicly - otherwise he is giving the impression he has things to hide. As to not believing a resolution will be found within this thread I totally agree with you. Hence my thoughts that it is better now closed - however, members think otherwise.
I am now done with this thread and have expressed my opinions. Opinions not shared by all but I really hope members get what they want and Mac isn't left struggling to refund them their hard-earned-cash!
Sorry to enter here again and put oil into the fire.
IMHO, most of the comments are missing the point:
Mac rips off a copyrighted item or attempts to do so!!
He can put it into any imaginable light. He does!
And we have opposing statements from him and "his man".
Mac assured, that these will be a perfect copy of the original (which will be absolutely illegal) and so did the person, who made the dummy!
On the other hand, he claims to do changes (and that can not only be to remove the 007 logo - ever heard from 3-d protected items?? - and fixed backs with a different design on them) which is a contradiction to his claim for "a perfect copy" (his words).
I'll not support him in doing so and I don't feel bad about it like others try to suggest because it's totally wrong, what he's doing!
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
If Mac did not take the GBP 1,600 there will be a lot less posting I can guarantee that. Many members here can't stand seeing other members being rip off - its not good to lose that much money.
Although I said I was done with this thread I feel I must state that I am very much in agreement with much of what both Bondtoys and texas007 have said above!
NMS
A sense of humour is no laughing matter!
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,769Chief of Staff
Thread will not be edited, moved or closed. We believe that as adults we can continue conversations of this nature, usually to positive fruition. To close it now would only create a negative moment...and the creator of the post has asked to continue. Let's give the gent the deference of some time and perseverance.
I fully support Dave and this thread will remain open.
It's much better to discuss in the open than to hide it all 'behind the scenes'....
Please keep it civil...offer help if you wish....and remember the forum is here to help.
Any concerns, please contact either a MOD or a Quartermaster. Thank you.
I've resisted piling on but this thread is degenerating and in many cases in a manner unlikely to bring about a good solution TO THOSE INVOLVED.
Ie
Mac ✓ PAID
Paperbill
The Domino Effect ✓ PAID
ke02eww ✓ PAID
Head of Section ✓ PAID
Dexter007 ✓ PAID
DGuest ✓
Meesta Bawnd ✓ PAID
Jib21
007DAN ✓ PAID
saoralba1969 ✓ PAID
TomSawyer ✓ PAID
This I believe is the final list.
Of the many mumblings recently, only a few have come directly from those on the list. Each of THOSE should be well heeded.
While I respect a number of the "well wishers " who have opined helpfully, and appreciate their input, can others with alternative motives please desist - that said I did lmao when i read the phrase keyboard warriors..
So as a CONTRIBUTOR these are my thoughts;
1 the issue of copyright is important and I (and others) brought it up at the very beginning - I was placated by comments like
"Firstly, we are using a different fitting on the cufflinks.
Secondly, the measurements have been altered slightly per the ones I received from a forum member and what the cufflink company recommended.
Thirdly, there will be no copyrighted logos of any kind on these cufflinks."
I trust this is still the case - the pics certainly fit these criteria!
2 As kan suggests those paid should diarise the 40th day from their payment to ensure they are able to initiate a dispute on paypal to protect their investments - I certainly have and the 4th April is in mine. These are the details from paypal;
Reason for Dispute:
Most disputes can be resolved through open communication with your seller. You can use the Resolution Centre to open a dispute with a seller within 45 calendar days of payment.
If you're unable to resolve the dispute, you can ask PayPal to investigate by escalating the dispute to a claim within 20 calendar days of the date the dispute was opened.
3 mac you suggested we would be well within this period when u collected payments back in feb yet we have had delays (to be expected) and are therefore unlikely to deliver cuffs before the 45 day zone. I suggest u give this some thought immediately.
4 have to say I was disappointed with the pics. But this isn't the finished item and I for one would prefer to see a finished cuff asap.
I struggle to see why the mock up should look any different from the final item? After all are there economies of scale that require the mock up to be so inferior to the finished item?
With clothes (ESP dresses) it's common to make a mock up in cheaper material to save money, or where machining is only possible in bulk and an inferior by-hand process is economic.
Sorry mac but I feel the questions asked of the appearance need some answers.
5 I doubt knowing the name of the producer would help ( would we have heard of them or be able to research them?) but as an act of faith it might help - mac food for thought.
In conclusion, mac your efforts are appreciated by many on here and ar in the fine tradition of ajb.
However, as others have said it's always easier to fund a project yourself and then you can ignore the inevitable criticisms.
Once you have taken peoples money you forego the right to just ignore anyone and in business the customer is always right.
To my knowledge we can all put in claims against you if you fail to convince us of the satisfactory nature of the FINISHED product.
For me that "window" is close. It's upto others what they do.
As a supporter of you and your project, I suggest you engage your customers asap (privately if u prefer) and build reassurance lest trigger fingers itch....
Best Rgds Paul
Sorry guys but I felt my previous response covered all of the issues that still drive the current stream of responses.
I remain a solid supporter of this project
I offered clear solution to fears over paypal cover.
I clarified why I am comfortable with the copyright issues provided these are followed
Can someone tell me why this shouldn't be the last word, except those from mac, for a while?
And for the record, I asked that mac reply on this thread....
Sooner we get this project back up above board the sooner we can desist from using these smilies...
8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
You use the word "desist" a lot! Perhaps you should desist from acting like self-appointed member of the forum staff?! This project is not above board as it has gone into secret and many if us are now in the dark about it. Sir Miles did say above it shouldn't go 'behind the scenes' yet that is exactly what Mac (and you) are doing!
And for the record I will use WHATEVER smilies I want - DO NOT ever tell me what to do again!
nms75, we encourage members (especially respected and tenured members like ke02eww) to aid in the discussions and even ambassadorship of these boards. Unlike other boards this one is not a police state, ie dictatorship via mods and quartermasters. What makes this board so wonderful is the fact that basically we believe that all our members are reasonable people who can dialog and draw conclusions to an agreeable end. Clearly this thread need a little TLC to get it back on track as emotions are high as are sensitivities.
You use the word "desist" a lot! Perhaps you should desist from acting like self-appointed member of the forum staff?! This project is not above board as it has gone into secret and many if us are now in the dark about it. Sir Miles did say above it shouldn't go 'behind the scenes' yet that is exactly what Mac (and you) are doing!
And for the record I will use WHATEVER smilies I want - DO NOT ever tell me what to do again!
NMD
dude, calm yo sheet dawn dawg (or whatever gang stars say these days)
while i agree that 'going underground' with things is a bit daft, going into paddys about it aint gonna do anything useful for anyone.
i think ke02eww was trying to agree with what you've been saying and just trying to steer the thread back on course.
with this in mind, hows about we just offer useful advice to our dear mac and help him pull off a good job for himself? ok, so he didnt get off to a good start, but that doesn't mean we can't club together to make good out of it all.
I'm all for the positive advice but if the project is being continued in secret I can't see how this can be done. I think it's time Mac started being open about his activities!
guys, the opinions are not so different. Like almost everyone said, this project should be transparent and open and this seems to be the consensus here.
I for my part don't enjoy as well being told by others what to do or not and that was nms75's major message (probably put into drastic words).
I respect his opinion as much as ke02eww's pov.
Let's sit back and see, what Mac is coming up with.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Comments
Absolutely right, Dave.
Rightly or wrongly, I detect a feeling that far too many members would prefer to see Mac fail rather than succeed.
I could be wrong in this conclusion - and hope I am - but if I am right then it reflects badly on ajb and particularly on those individuals concerned.
Looking through this thread, I think that Mac has been badly let down by the manufacturer/jeweller. I can add from personal experience that I've found him to be utterly reiable and honest in my dealings with him.
I think however upfront payments were a mistake, I speak here from personal experience when I had a project going (not James Bond) and life and problems got in the way and all hell broke loose. Purely because, and rightly so, people have paid hard earned money and get the jitters.
I would however encourage some faith in a project that was started with the best of intentions and I'm sure that will be fulfilled even if it has to overcome some obstacles along the way.
I am in no way connected with this project or with Mac personally aside from a couple of purchases, but he has never given me any cause to think ill of him.
Just my 2 penneth worth.
Duncan
i'm hoping any past comments from me were useful to mac, and that he gets this project to a successful conclusion.
hopefully the progress wont' go under the carpet and we'll all be able to help out mac, whether we're buyers or not, so that he can make a good job of it.
after all, lessons can be learnt here that can be applied to other people's projects, and as a community, it'd be a shame for mac to feel he needs to keep it off the radar.
also, if he mentions saying his jeweller's name on here, he might bag himself, and his buyers a bit of a discount.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
I agree. I'm kind of hesitant to go too far as I'm not part of this project, but I think the less secrets the better. I think most people would have appreciate an open response. May well pick up some more buyers that way.
Duncan
It is good to think positive and be optimistic, but you have to think about the other outcome too.
Everyone who paid up could potentially lose their moeny - the project is too far away from final delivery.
Why the need to take the money so early on? 45 days is the cut off for the claim - keep that in mind.
Take the money early eliminate that option.
What if the product is not to your satisfaction and it has three month out. Nothing you can do but to accept it?
People who had paid up should really consider the above. If Mac is true and fair he should refund people if he fails to deliver by the 45 days. People will still buy his stuff if he should complete it to the required standards.
Again, I have seen how bad a project like this can turn out and don't want people here to get hurts - I see the glass half full as I have been burned before.
Fair comments all, of course, and I do hope you're right that no one on here wants to see Mac fail.
But it does wrly amuse an English cynic like me that those making the most "anti-Mac" noise are those who have NOT invested and placed their trust in him, rather than those who have. But that's just me.
However, what I do hope is that this turns out well for Mac and his supporters.
Very good point.
I have been a victim of abuse and false accusations myself on this forum & others, therefore, I know too well what it is like to be called something I am not. I proved those people wrong and received apologies from those people (on other forums), so Mac - I hope you get this sorted asap. Even though I am not a customer, I look forward to seeing the finished product and you proving the doubters wrong, but you must do that, otherwise you will let down a lot of members here, including me.
Adam Carter-Jones
Bondposters.com - FREE James Bond Poster Reference site
NMS
I agree with what you say.
But I do empathise with Mac as I stopped posting on forums altogether a while back because of the lies & such being spread about me - it does affect one's thoughts of the forum experience. Mac got sick of all the attacks and decided to keep any comments and advances private for the contributors to the project - this is a stance everyone must acknowledge, whatever the feeling toward him.
When Mac feels ready to display all updates here, I am sure he will do, but for as long as the attacks continue publicly and not privately like he has asked, then I don't believe a resolution will be found within this thread.
Send him a pm and see what he says to you personally.
Surely that is better than waiting for a reply here?
Adam Carter-Jones
Bondposters.com - FREE James Bond Poster Reference site
Hi Adam
I appreciate what you say and understand your point-of-view - thank you. I would love to see Mac's project come to fruition and see members end up with a quality product which meets all their expectations. Mistakes have been made and guidance and advice given which I am sure Mac is now following. I wish him success but just feel he ought to keep us informed publicly - otherwise he is giving the impression he has things to hide. As to not believing a resolution will be found within this thread I totally agree with you. Hence my thoughts that it is better now closed - however, members think otherwise.
I am now done with this thread and have expressed my opinions. Opinions not shared by all but I really hope members get what they want and Mac isn't left struggling to refund them their hard-earned-cash!
NMS
IMHO, most of the comments are missing the point:
Mac rips off a copyrighted item or attempts to do so!!
He can put it into any imaginable light. He does!
And we have opposing statements from him and "his man".
Mac assured, that these will be a perfect copy of the original (which will be absolutely illegal) and so did the person, who made the dummy!
On the other hand, he claims to do changes (and that can not only be to remove the 007 logo - ever heard from 3-d protected items?? - and fixed backs with a different design on them) which is a contradiction to his claim for "a perfect copy" (his words).
I'll not support him in doing so and I don't feel bad about it like others try to suggest because it's totally wrong, what he's doing!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
NMS
I fully support Dave and this thread will remain open.
It's much better to discuss in the open than to hide it all 'behind the scenes'....
Please keep it civil...offer help if you wish....and remember the forum is here to help.
Any concerns, please contact either a MOD or a Quartermaster. Thank you.
Well said, Sir Miles {[]
NMS
Sorry guys but I felt my previous response covered all of the issues that still drive the current stream of responses.
I remain a solid supporter of this project
I offered clear solution to fears over paypal cover.
I clarified why I am comfortable with the copyright issues provided these are followed
Can someone tell me why this shouldn't be the last word, except those from mac, for a while?
Cheers
Could you please resond to my PM/email? -{
I replied mac...
And for the record, I asked that mac reply on this thread....
Sooner we get this project back up above board
8-)
8-)
8-)
8-)
8-)
8-)
Simply not good for your eyes...
And for the record I will use WHATEVER smilies I want - DO NOT ever tell me what to do again!
NMD
I don't think he was telling you what to do, chap. Looks more like he was agreeing with you about the projects covert status. -{
dude, calm yo sheet dawn dawg (or whatever gang stars say these days)
while i agree that 'going underground' with things is a bit daft, going into paddys about it aint gonna do anything useful for anyone.
i think ke02eww was trying to agree with what you've been saying and just trying to steer the thread back on course.
with this in mind, hows about we just offer useful advice to our dear mac and help him pull off a good job for himself? ok, so he didnt get off to a good start, but that doesn't mean we can't club together to make good out of it all.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
NMS
i think you better before nms's bollox turn purple from his twisted knickers.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
I for my part don't enjoy as well being told by others what to do or not and that was nms75's major message (probably put into drastic words).
I respect his opinion as much as ke02eww's pov.
Let's sit back and see, what Mac is coming up with.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!