"But I'm not quite sure what a private, erm, citizen"(?) would want with a machine gun, are you?"
I suggest you google or even look on wikipedia for "1934 National Firearms Act." To purchase a machine gun in the handful of states where it's legal, you have to do the following...
1. Pay a $200 transfer tax, regardless of what Law Enforcement or the ATF thinks of you.
2. Seek the signature of your county sheriff or, in lieu of a county sheriff, senior law enforcement personnel of equivalent rank. Some states require TWO law enforcement signatures.
3. An ATF background check in which you waive your fourth amendment right to privacy. This will take anywhere from several months to a year. Your gun will also be registered with the ATF.
4. Transfer tax paid to a Class 3 firearms dealer ('nother $200).
5. You can finally get it.
The system, which has been in place since 1934, does seem to work: only one individual has ever committed a violent crime with a lawfully-owned Class 3 firearm. Regardless, I do think it a bit harsh, especially considering the law was actually less restrictive prior to 1968 ($200 tax and ATF registration only) and the lone crime was committed after 1968 with a gun made after 1968.
The "mean and nasty" looking guns you saw were probably semiautomatic look-alikes of fully automatic weapons, which are perfectly legal here and treated as any other rifle, pistol, or shotgun (depending on what they are). If there were any Class 3 dealers there, they would not have sold you a Machine Gun, Short-Barreled Shotgun, Short-Barreled Rifle, AOW, or Destructive Device as defined by the ATF. Sure, they would have shown it to you and arranged a lawful transfer, but not much beyond that. You'd likely next see it again in six months time.
have been to a couple at Bisley Surrey UK the home of the NRA UK, that was good but no pistols just rifles, went to one at the Birmingham Exhibition Center now that was good, before the ban!
I too went to the Birmingham NEC - I bought a 9mm Browning and Walther PPK there (again before the ban) - I've been to a couple country trade fairs with shotguns and rifles for sale also.
Amazon #1 Bestselling Author. If you enjoy crime, espionage, action and fast-moving thrillers follow this link:
Great footage Mantis! Guns and the gun scene is very different in Britain, we don't have pistols anymore, but we don't seem to have the "hicks" either. Shooting is generally a countryside recreation, and licensing is so heavily policed that generally the wrong type doesn't get through the process, there are always exceptions however.
We have trade shows - shotguns, hunting and target rifles etc but one thing you would never see would be Nazi memorabillia! And I'm pretty glad about that...
Amazon #1 Bestselling Author. If you enjoy crime, espionage, action and fast-moving thrillers follow this link:
"one thing you would never see would be Nazi memorabillia! And I'm pretty glad about that..."
For the most part, yeah, I do agree, although to be honest, if you go to the larger gun shows, you see just as much WWII US Army memorabilia. As for never seeing it in Great Britain; depends on how you define it; I know for a fact that WWII bringback Karabiner 98k's exist and are sold at BNRA shows (as were Luger P-08's, Walther P-38's, and indeed Walther PPK's before the pistol ban). On the other hand, the smaller and medium-sized gun shows in the US have really taken a dive ever since the rise of gunbroker, auctionarms, gunsamerica, and similar sites (things not generally available in the UK), and that's what tends to attract more and more of the "non-gun" people. To be honest, only the big ones are really worth going to anymore.
Nothing against the Nazi memorabillia - it's all history! In a world where pc has tightened up gun control almost everywhere (accept in the states it seems) it just goes against the grain a little. The Nazi stuff is best kept to antique fairs, IMO.
Amazon #1 Bestselling Author. If you enjoy crime, espionage, action and fast-moving thrillers follow this link:
I purchased a Class III AOW a couple of years ago. Took about 2 months for the paperwork and a $5.00 tax stamp. In VA, its a fairly simple process (as far as the local/state gov't is concerned...federal is another story) and 4 - 6 months is average. One thing about the gun shows here, there are plenty of full automatic weapons for sale - $3K - $6K for the gun, police background check, fingerprints, ATF form, $200 for the tax stamp, and then the rest of your life savings to buy ammunition (can't just shoot a box of 50 and go home). There are at least 3 indoor firing ranges where you can rent full autoweapons (with or without suppressors) by the hour and you don't have to be a VA resident.
Bond: "Who would spend $1 million to kill me?"
M: "Jealous husbands. Outraged chefs. Humiliated tailors. The list is endless!"
I purchased a Class III AOW a couple of years ago. Took about 2 months for the paperwork and a $5.00 tax stamp. In VA, its a fairly simple process (as far as the local/state gov't is concerned...federal is another story) and 4 - 6 months is average. One thing about the gun shows here, there are plenty of full automatic weapons for sale - $3K - $6K for the gun, police background check, fingerprints, ATF form, $200 for the tax stamp, and then the rest of your life savings to buy ammunition (can't just shoot a box of 50 and go home). There are at least 3 indoor firing ranges where you can rent full autoweapons (with or without suppressors) by the hour and you don't have to be a VA resident.
Coldheart96...correct, an AOW is a $5 tax stamp rather than $200. All the other NFA categories are $200. Although I don't own any Class 3, I do know several people who do. Full auto tends to take longer than an AOW regarding the background check, I know, plus it also depends on the state. But...$3K to $6K for full auto? Wow, that's cheap unless you're talking an M10 or M11!!! I can't even find Ruger AC556's for $6K! Or are you talking pre-86 dealer samples in that price range vs. fully transferrable?
"Nothing against the Nazi memorabillia - it's all history!"
Depends; so long as it's something one learns from as opposed to embracing the ideology (and there have been a few problems with that at the smaller gun shows). I have nothing wrong with wartime bringbacks, especially. If you want even a replica Waffen SS dagger (since the originals sell for thousands) to use as a letter opener since it's based on an interesting piece of history or if you're a reinactor, I don't really have a problem with that. On the other hand, the swastika mugs and tee shirts are really pushing it and in bad taste.
"The Nazi stuff is best kept to antique fairs, IMO."
It's funny you should say that...antique fairs in the US...flea markets, we tend to call them...often offer firearms if allowed by the promoters! Usually antiques (pre-1898 under US law), but there's a mix of modern stuff in there too from people not engaged in the firearms business and simply wanting to sell off a gun. Ironically, some of my best finds have come at flea markets (never the modern stuff, as it's almost always overpriced, but I can name three antiques).
"All of which tend to prove my point about the difference in our respective cultures."
I'm glad someone else sees it as a mere cultural difference rather than one side being somehow morally better than the other.
I was supposed to meet David at the VFGS ( Valley Forge Gun Show ) this past Saturday but we unfortunetly miissed getting together.
I've been attending this show for about 15 or 20 years (...and have purchased many a "Bond Prop" there)
The show opened at 10:00 AM and I was there approximetly 11:00 AM. The lines to get in were a bit longer than usual. It seems everytime there is some kind of world news that the "Survivalist" stock up on Guns & Ammo. I heard many a person there say "If the $#^t hits the fan...I want to be ready" The unfortunate disaster in Japan and fighting in Libya were good for gun sales this past weekend.
There is enough guns there that you could get every Pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, etc, etc. ever seen from Dr.No to QOS
"It seems everytime there is some kind of world news that the "Survivalist" stock up on Guns & Ammo. I heard many a person there say "If the $#^t hits the fan...I want to be ready" The unfortunate disaster in Japan and fighting in Libya were good for gun sales this past weekend."
I doubt it, regarding the last sentence. Survivalists are survivalists; no matter what happens, they stock up on everything regardless of current events; disasters perceived or disasters in reality.
"NAAA...I got more than that in my closet...LOL"
I bet I have more in my closet than you have in yours! )
Good to see a fun topic slide smoothly back onto topic, and far be it from me to redirect it down the alleyway of trivia, but as a personal friend for many years, and a fellow collector of all things Bond, I can't let the slurs on davids integrity go unopposed.
I can happily vouch for David's integrity and find it ridiculous that anyone could seriously question it.
To that point both David and I welcome anyone who can help verify any of the pieces we own, recognising that we all deal in the currencies of confidence and research when attributing value.
For those that only work in the area of replicas and copies, it's a lot simpler ( and cheaper!).
But for both David and I, that would lack satisfaction and so we both savour the challenge.
Now back to topic.
DS has a point about the cultural differences but being a Brit in the USA,, I think I'm qualified to suggest that dalkowski110 is indeed spot on; no one is morally superior on either side of the pond and most of us are proud of the cultural similarities.
Also, coming from a town only 20miles from hungerford, and having friends personally scarred by those events, I've been through both sides of alice's looking glass.
If you want to legislate against killers getting access to a lethal weapon, start with the driving license. This is equally valid in both countries.
But to me it's healthy to discuss topics like these openly especially on a forum like AjB.
If you want to legislate against killers getting access to a lethal weapon, start with the driving license. This is equally valid in both countries.
here here. christ i sounded like a politician then, how embarassing.
anyhow, as someone involved in shooting in the UK I can honestly say there are enough rules and regs in place.
the biggest problem we have is that our government has a knack of introducing such 'citizen saving' laws AFTER something has happened.
take replica guns. imagine how many unknown, untracable RIF's there are in the UK.
i, as a FAC holder, can own a number of guns and ammunition. but I can't buy a plastic toy that fires bb's.
more rules and regs won't help our society, it'll just increase the paperwork plod has to sort out, lengthen the application time and cost the tax payer more money.
i can totally and utterly understand people's thoughts with regards dunblane, hungerford and cumbria, but i urge anyone who wants to say their piece, please please look into the facts before you do.
the uk media seemed happy to sell their papers with body counts and statistics. sadly though, things like strathclyde police's 44 missed opportunities to stop thomas hamilton before dunblane occured tend to get put to the bottom of the pile. i guess pictures of police cars, forensic tents and a foot sticking out of a sheet sell more papers than facts.
for me, its not about the right to bear arms. i don't see my guns as weapons. non of them were designed with taking life in mind. they're target guns, for me to participate in a sport with.
i just wish to be left in peace, to be able to participate in my choice of sport and not to be stereotyped by people as a trigger happy gun nut.
Got to side with Jeff on this one. I shoot quite a lot, game in season and clays through the summer. I also get to play in LA when I go over there with stuff ranging from .22LR upto .50 cal. All I can say is that you will never be able to legislate against a Cumbria type incident where 'legally' held firearms were used by someone who's insanity switch was flipped. To be honest he could have used a car, a knife or a cricket bat and still had the same result. Bottom line is, and rhetoric I know, Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
I do know that gun crime in this country has risen exponentially since the knee jerk legislations were brought in after Hungerford & Dunblaine. There is a tiny minority of crimes committed with legally held firearms in this country, the majority by thugs and criminals with illegally held weapons.
I have heard there are studies proving that street crime has declined in ALL states/cities that allow/issue concealed carry permits ............ I wonder why?
Just throwing some things out there for discussion from both sides of the pond.
I can happily vouch for David's integrity and find it ridiculous that anyone could seriously question it.
To that point both David and I welcome anyone who can help verify any of the pieces we own, recognising that we all deal in the currencies of confidence and research when attributing value.
For those that only work in the area of replicas and copies, it's a lot simpler ( and cheaper!).
But for both David and I, that would lack satisfaction and so we both savour the challenge.
This was sorted out by PM Paul, but as you bought it back up, I was just making sure that Daves watch was not viewed as a real TWINE watch, he clearly states he received a CONFIDENTUAL email from Nick Finlayson saying it is a watch he actually made, breaching a CONFIDENTUAL email for your own bragging rights ? , after I pointed out the watch and email was fake Dave kindly removed his link, it is still openly available on other Bond fan sights, the letter Dave has displayed behind the watch is a written statement of the same facts.
My point is, he is a respected member of the Bond community, and no doubt 1000s take his word as gospel, in my eyes this is wrong, if this had got on to the open market someone would have been stuffed.
Like I said to Dave, I am not getting at him, if this was the case I would have forwarded the video and letter to NF himself, I just don't want anyone being fooled in the future, now that Dave has made that clear all is fine.
Are you saying that Dave and yourself only collect real props and I only have replica's )
Got to side with Jeff on this one. I shoot quite a lot, game in season and clays through the summer. I also get to play in LA when I go over there with stuff ranging from .22LR upto .50 cal. All I can say is that you will never be able to legislate against a Cumbria type incident where 'legally' held firearms were used by someone who's insanity switch was flipped. To be honest he could have used a car, a knife or a cricket bat and still had the same result. Bottom line is, and rhetoric I know, Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
I do know that gun crime in this country has risen exponentially since the knee jerk legislations were brought in after Hungerford & Dunblaine. There is a tiny minority of crimes committed with legally held firearms in this country, the majority by thugs and criminals with illegally held weapons.
I have heard there are studies proving that street crime has declined in ALL states/cities that allow/issue concealed carry permits ............ I wonder why?
Just throwing some things out there for discussion from both sides of the pond.
Although I no longer own any firearms, it would be nice to have an un butchered P99 and PPK, Guns don't kill people, Rappers do
Got to side with Jeff on this one. I shoot quite a lot, game in season and clays through the summer. I also get to play in LA when I go over there with stuff ranging from .22LR upto .50 cal. All I can say is that you will never be able to legislate against a Cumbria type incident where 'legally' held firearms were used by someone who's insanity switch was flipped. To be honest he could have used a car, a knife or a cricket bat and still had the same result. Bottom line is, and rhetoric I know, Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
I do know that gun crime in this country has risen exponentially since the knee jerk legislations were brought in after Hungerford & Dunblaine. There is a tiny minority of crimes committed with legally held firearms in this country, the majority by thugs and criminals with illegally held weapons.
I have heard there are studies proving that street crime has declined in ALL states/cities that allow/issue concealed carry permits ............ I wonder why?
Just throwing some things out there for discussion from both sides of the pond.
Although I no longer own any firearms, it would be nice to have an un butchered P99 and PPK, Guns don't kill people, Rappers do
I thought ya said Rippers
Knowing who to trust is Everything in this business.
TIS - "The moment you think you got it figured - you're wrong"
I had a feeling the video would spark this type of robust discussion...and I LOVE IT! To be honest, even those in the states are a bit shocked (and awed) when they attend a show of this size and nature...there is a look in the video by a friend of mine whose mouth continues to drop at the sheer magnitude and caliber of the goodies on the table.
And here in the states gun ownership and enthusiasm is not restricted by socio-economical factors or geography.
One of my old Bosses makes sporting guns in the states now, Dale Tate, in CA I think, I finally tracked him down last year, I shocked him by telling him he was my Idol as a kid, if any of you state side want a shotgun he is the man.
David
I was at one of the gunshows in Vegas a couple of years ago, could've spent a fortune. I think the biggest one is the Shot Show which I'm still trying to get to.
"I think the biggest one is the Shot Show which I'm still trying to get to."
No, that's an industry trade show. You can't buy anything there and I think it's by invitation only or having a valid FFL or something like that. I know you can't just walk in. Knob Creek in KY has a HUGE gun show.
"there is a look in the video by a friend of mine whose mouth continues to drop at the sheer magnitude and caliber of the goodies on the table."
Honestly, it all depends on your expectations, including what guns exist and don't exist. I'll bet a lot of this stuff he simply didn't think existed or was available to the general public...when it has been since its introduction, in most cases.
"Bottom line is, and rhetoric I know, Guns don't kill people, people kill people."
I couldn't agree more.
And thespyboys11...I've got in excess of forty guns. You?
Yeah I'm aware that the Shot Show is a trade show, but luckily I have enough contacts to be afforded entry, it's just a case of timing as I'm not normally in Vegas at that time of year. I can't buy anyway as non citizen so that side isn't a problem, I just like to look and touch unlike a lot of the places I go to in Vegas where the rule is look but don't touch )
Comments
I suggest you google or even look on wikipedia for "1934 National Firearms Act." To purchase a machine gun in the handful of states where it's legal, you have to do the following...
1. Pay a $200 transfer tax, regardless of what Law Enforcement or the ATF thinks of you.
2. Seek the signature of your county sheriff or, in lieu of a county sheriff, senior law enforcement personnel of equivalent rank. Some states require TWO law enforcement signatures.
3. An ATF background check in which you waive your fourth amendment right to privacy. This will take anywhere from several months to a year. Your gun will also be registered with the ATF.
4. Transfer tax paid to a Class 3 firearms dealer ('nother $200).
5. You can finally get it.
The system, which has been in place since 1934, does seem to work: only one individual has ever committed a violent crime with a lawfully-owned Class 3 firearm. Regardless, I do think it a bit harsh, especially considering the law was actually less restrictive prior to 1968 ($200 tax and ATF registration only) and the lone crime was committed after 1968 with a gun made after 1968.
The "mean and nasty" looking guns you saw were probably semiautomatic look-alikes of fully automatic weapons, which are perfectly legal here and treated as any other rifle, pistol, or shotgun (depending on what they are). If there were any Class 3 dealers there, they would not have sold you a Machine Gun, Short-Barreled Shotgun, Short-Barreled Rifle, AOW, or Destructive Device as defined by the ATF. Sure, they would have shown it to you and arranged a lawful transfer, but not much beyond that. You'd likely next see it again in six months time.
in England Dave, you mucky bugger :v
i'd pay good money not to see this -{
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
I too went to the Birmingham NEC - I bought a 9mm Browning and Walther PPK there (again before the ban) - I've been to a couple country trade fairs with shotguns and rifles for sale also.
http://apbateman.com
We have trade shows - shotguns, hunting and target rifles etc but one thing you would never see would be Nazi memorabillia! And I'm pretty glad about that...
http://apbateman.com
For the most part, yeah, I do agree, although to be honest, if you go to the larger gun shows, you see just as much WWII US Army memorabilia. As for never seeing it in Great Britain; depends on how you define it; I know for a fact that WWII bringback Karabiner 98k's exist and are sold at BNRA shows (as were Luger P-08's, Walther P-38's, and indeed Walther PPK's before the pistol ban). On the other hand, the smaller and medium-sized gun shows in the US have really taken a dive ever since the rise of gunbroker, auctionarms, gunsamerica, and similar sites (things not generally available in the UK), and that's what tends to attract more and more of the "non-gun" people. To be honest, only the big ones are really worth going to anymore.
http://apbateman.com
M: "Jealous husbands. Outraged chefs. Humiliated tailors. The list is endless!"
All of which tend to prove my point about the difference in our respective cultures.
Coldheart96...correct, an AOW is a $5 tax stamp rather than $200. All the other NFA categories are $200. Although I don't own any Class 3, I do know several people who do. Full auto tends to take longer than an AOW regarding the background check, I know, plus it also depends on the state. But...$3K to $6K for full auto? Wow, that's cheap unless you're talking an M10 or M11!!! I can't even find Ruger AC556's for $6K! Or are you talking pre-86 dealer samples in that price range vs. fully transferrable?
"Nothing against the Nazi memorabillia - it's all history!"
Depends; so long as it's something one learns from as opposed to embracing the ideology (and there have been a few problems with that at the smaller gun shows). I have nothing wrong with wartime bringbacks, especially. If you want even a replica Waffen SS dagger (since the originals sell for thousands) to use as a letter opener since it's based on an interesting piece of history or if you're a reinactor, I don't really have a problem with that. On the other hand, the swastika mugs and tee shirts are really pushing it and in bad taste.
"The Nazi stuff is best kept to antique fairs, IMO."
It's funny you should say that...antique fairs in the US...flea markets, we tend to call them...often offer firearms if allowed by the promoters! Usually antiques (pre-1898 under US law), but there's a mix of modern stuff in there too from people not engaged in the firearms business and simply wanting to sell off a gun. Ironically, some of my best finds have come at flea markets (never the modern stuff, as it's almost always overpriced, but I can name three antiques).
"All of which tend to prove my point about the difference in our respective cultures."
I'm glad someone else sees it as a mere cultural difference rather than one side being somehow morally better than the other.
I've been attending this show for about 15 or 20 years (...and have purchased many a "Bond Prop" there)
The show opened at 10:00 AM and I was there approximetly 11:00 AM. The lines to get in were a bit longer than usual. It seems everytime there is some kind of world news that the "Survivalist" stock up on Guns & Ammo. I heard many a person there say "If the $#^t hits the fan...I want to be ready" The unfortunate disaster in Japan and fighting in Libya were good for gun sales this past weekend.
There is enough guns there that you could get every Pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, etc, etc. ever seen from Dr.No to QOS
WHAT a day....and they do it every 3-4 months
Ed
the spyboys Facebook page
NAAA...I got more than that in my closet...LOL
Ed
the spyboys Facebook page
I doubt it, regarding the last sentence. Survivalists are survivalists; no matter what happens, they stock up on everything regardless of current events; disasters perceived or disasters in reality.
"NAAA...I got more than that in my closet...LOL"
I bet I have more in my closet than you have in yours!
I can happily vouch for David's integrity and find it ridiculous that anyone could seriously question it.
To that point both David and I welcome anyone who can help verify any of the pieces we own, recognising that we all deal in the currencies of confidence and research when attributing value.
For those that only work in the area of replicas and copies, it's a lot simpler ( and cheaper!).
But for both David and I, that would lack satisfaction and so we both savour the challenge.
Now back to topic.
DS has a point about the cultural differences but being a Brit in the USA,, I think I'm qualified to suggest that dalkowski110 is indeed spot on; no one is morally superior on either side of the pond and most of us are proud of the cultural similarities.
Also, coming from a town only 20miles from hungerford, and having friends personally scarred by those events, I've been through both sides of alice's looking glass.
If you want to legislate against killers getting access to a lethal weapon, start with the driving license. This is equally valid in both countries.
But to me it's healthy to discuss topics like these openly especially on a forum like AjB.
here here. christ i sounded like a politician then, how embarassing.
anyhow, as someone involved in shooting in the UK I can honestly say there are enough rules and regs in place.
the biggest problem we have is that our government has a knack of introducing such 'citizen saving' laws AFTER something has happened.
take replica guns. imagine how many unknown, untracable RIF's there are in the UK.
i, as a FAC holder, can own a number of guns and ammunition. but I can't buy a plastic toy that fires bb's.
more rules and regs won't help our society, it'll just increase the paperwork plod has to sort out, lengthen the application time and cost the tax payer more money.
i can totally and utterly understand people's thoughts with regards dunblane, hungerford and cumbria, but i urge anyone who wants to say their piece, please please look into the facts before you do.
the uk media seemed happy to sell their papers with body counts and statistics. sadly though, things like strathclyde police's 44 missed opportunities to stop thomas hamilton before dunblane occured tend to get put to the bottom of the pile. i guess pictures of police cars, forensic tents and a foot sticking out of a sheet sell more papers than facts.
for me, its not about the right to bear arms. i don't see my guns as weapons. non of them were designed with taking life in mind. they're target guns, for me to participate in a sport with.
i just wish to be left in peace, to be able to participate in my choice of sport and not to be stereotyped by people as a trigger happy gun nut.
rant over
MG -{
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Well then....please "Come out of the closet"
LOL
Ed
the spyboys Facebook page
we could throw a party, ajb style.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
I do know that gun crime in this country has risen exponentially since the knee jerk legislations were brought in after Hungerford & Dunblaine. There is a tiny minority of crimes committed with legally held firearms in this country, the majority by thugs and criminals with illegally held weapons.
I have heard there are studies proving that street crime has declined in ALL states/cities that allow/issue concealed carry permits ............ I wonder why?
Just throwing some things out there for discussion from both sides of the pond.
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
This was sorted out by PM Paul, but as you bought it back up, I was just making sure that Daves watch was not viewed as a real TWINE watch, he clearly states he received a CONFIDENTUAL email from Nick Finlayson saying it is a watch he actually made, breaching a CONFIDENTUAL email for your own bragging rights ? , after I pointed out the watch and email was fake Dave kindly removed his link, it is still openly available on other Bond fan sights, the letter Dave has displayed behind the watch is a written statement of the same facts.
My point is, he is a respected member of the Bond community, and no doubt 1000s take his word as gospel, in my eyes this is wrong, if this had got on to the open market someone would have been stuffed.
Like I said to Dave, I am not getting at him, if this was the case I would have forwarded the video and letter to NF himself, I just don't want anyone being fooled in the future, now that Dave has made that clear all is fine.
Are you saying that Dave and yourself only collect real props and I only have replica's
Although I no longer own any firearms, it would be nice to have an un butchered P99 and PPK, Guns don't kill people, Rappers do
I thought ya said Rippers
TIS - "The moment you think you got it figured - you're wrong"
Formerly known as Teppo
And here in the states gun ownership and enthusiasm is not restricted by socio-economical factors or geography.
I was at one of the gunshows in Vegas a couple of years ago, could've spent a fortune. I think the biggest one is the Shot Show which I'm still trying to get to.
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
No, that's an industry trade show. You can't buy anything there and I think it's by invitation only or having a valid FFL or something like that. I know you can't just walk in. Knob Creek in KY has a HUGE gun show.
"there is a look in the video by a friend of mine whose mouth continues to drop at the sheer magnitude and caliber of the goodies on the table."
Honestly, it all depends on your expectations, including what guns exist and don't exist. I'll bet a lot of this stuff he simply didn't think existed or was available to the general public...when it has been since its introduction, in most cases.
"Bottom line is, and rhetoric I know, Guns don't kill people, people kill people."
I couldn't agree more.
And thespyboys11...I've got in excess of forty guns. You?
Yeah I'm aware that the Shot Show is a trade show, but luckily I have enough contacts to be afforded entry, it's just a case of timing as I'm not normally in Vegas at that time of year. I can't buy anyway as non citizen so that side isn't a problem, I just like to look and touch unlike a lot of the places I go to in Vegas where the rule is look but don't touch
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk