I'm glad to read D Craig is still working on the script ( he did such a good job on QOS )
Like him or (obviously) not, TP, I believe that Craigger at least knows what he wants the character to be. In the throes of a writer's strike, IMO he deserves credit for stepping up and doing what he could. QoS was flawed, sure, but that was Forster's doing, rather than what I though was a typically strong performance from the lead actor. If Craig had keep his distance, and not involved himself creatively, it likely would have been less good than it was. As ever, opinions and mileage will vary
Ian Fleming did product placement, in the novels, before it was called product placement. I remember James Bond ordering a Red Stripe beer by name, in TMWTGG, and the world kept turning.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Ian Fleming did product placement, in the novels, before it was called product placement. I remember James Bond ordering a Red Stripe beer by name, in TMWTGG, and the world kept turning.
He did, but as far as I understand it wasn't through any formal arrangements with the brands he mentioned. The Heineken deal is paying its way into Bond's mouth, but as of now, it really strikes me as being just as nominal as Fleming's placements in film context.
I agree Fleming used many Brands in his novels, ( especially Moonraker )
I think in a way to ground the adventures in the real world.
Also When Bond ordered a red stripe, it was because it was a local Beer
adding to the readers sense of location, so really a chinese Beer should be ordered ( if it
is in the Shanghai location ) or a return for that fine vintage "Phu Yuk" )
In reality with all kidding aside Bond Ordering a Heineken is not a huge problem for me.
I'ts just a little sad that the films have got themselves in to so much trouble that they need
to have Bond himself Order it, as they seem to need the money.
As opposed to simply having it on the table in the scene, with Bond adding "I'll have one of those "
Then again who know mabey that is how it will end up as. ) and I'm getting my knickers in a
twist over nothing.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I'm with you, Loeffelholz. At least Craig seems to care about the role and the series. At times it seems some of the other actors were merely collecting paychecks.
I'm glad to read D Craig is still working on the script ( he did such a good job on QOS )
Like him or (obviously) not, TP, I believe that Craigger at least knows what he wants the character to be. In the throes of a writer's strike, IMO he deserves credit for stepping up and doing what he could. QoS was flawed, sure, but that was Forster's doing, rather than what I though was a typically strong performance from the lead actor. If Craig had keep his distance, and not involved himself creatively, it likely would have been less good than it was. As ever, opinions and mileage will vary
Ian Fleming did product placement, in the novels, before it was called product placement. I remember James Bond ordering a Red Stripe beer by name, in TMWTGG, and the world kept turning.
Octopussy is not impressed that James Bond will be drinking a Heineken. Maud Adams thinks the change of drink will make 007 appear less elegant. "Even though it's a good beer, this has gone too far. Martini was something elegant when I served Roger Moore and it is elegant to this day."
I'm with you, Loeffelholz. At least Craig seems to care about the role and the series. At times it seems some of the other actors were merely collecting paychecks.
One mans Caring , Is anothers "Control Freak", Can't he Trust the script writers or
do they need his imput to make it really great.
I wonder does he give S Mendes tips on Direction, or does he trust him enough to
do his job.
As for collecting a Paycheck It is funny how Even S Mendes said he didn't think DC
was suited for Bond, Until he started to be Paid to direct the movie, Now he's a Big Fan. )
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I'm with you, Loeffelholz. At least Craig seems to care about the role and the series. At times it seems some of the other actors were merely collecting paychecks.
I'm glad to read D Craig is still working on the script ( he did such a good job on QOS )
Like him or (obviously) not, TP, I believe that Craigger at least knows what he wants the character to be. In the throes of a writer's strike, IMO he deserves credit for stepping up and doing what he could. QoS was flawed, sure, but that was Forster's doing, rather than what I though was a typically strong performance from the lead actor. If Craig had keep his distance, and not involved himself creatively, it likely would have been less good than it was. As ever, opinions and mileage will vary
Fully agree with both of you & Loeffelholz's post covers my views more than sufficiently.
I'm with you, Loeffelholz. At least Craig seems to care about the role and the series. At times it seems some of the other actors were merely collecting paychecks.
One mans Caring , Is anothers "Control Freak", Can't he Trust the script writers or
do they need his imput to make it really great.
I wonder does he give S Mendes tips on Direction, or does he trust him enough to
do his job.
As for collecting a Paycheck It is funny how Even S Mendes said he didn't think DC
was suited for Bond, Until he started to be Paid to direct the movie, Now he's a Big Fan. )
TP - It's clear you hold zero love for Mr Craig, but do you genuinely believe that he's some sort of megalomaniac? I'm pretty sure that scripts are drafted, re-drafted, re-re-drafted etc etc, so during the Strike I'm somewhat certain it would have been a case of all hands to the pump in order to make the best of a naff situation. Ok it was clearly far from perfect when it came to screen, but at least he's held his hands up rather than acting like a precious primadonna and blaming all & sundry for lesser standard work.
As far as I'm aware, most actors (worth their salt) give Directors input on scenes / ideas, so I'm sure DC wouldn't be alone if he did this in Skyfall. Not certain that this necessarily makes him a control freak, but I'll gladly beg to differ.
I don't think Craig should be criticized for wanting to be involved in his lines. Many, many actors make suggestions and changes in cooperation with fellow cast and crew to make it better and more fitting.
The Mendes quote is not correct TP. He didn't like the choice until after CR was released. Much like the rest of the world. I don't think anyone liked the Craig choice until they saw Casino Royale. I'm sure some took a wait and see optimistic approach, but very few liked it at first.
TP - It's clear you hold zero love for Mr Craig, but do you genuinely believe that he's some sort of megalomaniac?
I really don't know where you guys get that idea.
But yes sometimes I imagine him stroking a White cat............ ( I holding a pack of hounds at the time ) )
( I'd like to point out I'm joking, in case someone thinks I really don't like him )
And you are correct 77007, I played with the context of the quote, well If politicians can do it.............................. )
As many know. I never let facts or Logic get in the way of my arguments. :007)
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
TP - It's clear you hold zero love for Mr Craig, but do you genuinely believe that he's some sort of megalomaniac?
I really don't know where you guys get that idea.
But yes sometimes I imagine him stroking a White cat............ ( I holding a pack of hounds at the time ) )
( I'd like to point out I'm joking, in case someone thinks I really don't like him )
And you are correct 77007, I played with the context of the quote, well If politicians can do it.............................. )
As many know. I never let facts or Logic get in the way of my arguments. :007)
It's okay to dislike Craig and I think you do. I think he's great but I couldn't stand the whole Roger Moore ouevre. The very thought of Sheriff JW Pepper is enough to cause me to break out in hives . . . in fact, wait a minute. Had to stick myself with an epi pen. Poor Ian Fleming. Hollywood took his morose, chain smoking, alcoholic assassin and turned him into an elderly poofter (not that there's anything wrong with that) in a safari suit.
The flap over Heineken’s product-placement deal with Skyfall, the 23rd James Bond movie, isn’t going away. How’d that happen? After all, James Bond drank beer in some of Ian Fleming’s original stories. He had beer in some movies, as recently as 2008′s Quantum of Solace, the most recent 007 flick.
"James, was this beer deal such a good idea?"
"Pass me a Heineken, Felix!"
With 20-20 hindsight, it’s not that surprising. Here’s what led to the situation:
The financial conditions of two studios: Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, which owns half the 007 franchise, recently was in bankruptcy court, emerging as a smaller company. It ended up cutting a deal with Sony Corp. to distribute Skyfall (and the next 007 film). But Sony has financial problems of its own. That meant:
Skyfall was going to rely heavily on product placement: The Sunday Times of London reported 11 month ago that MGM and Sony were looking to product placement deals to supply as much as one-third of Skyfall’s budget (this link shows the version of the Sunday Times story that appeared in The Australian). Months later, Skyfall star Daniel Craig tactily admitted that product placement was vital to Skyfall.
As a result, the media and some fans were on red alert: Bond movies had been criticized before for what seemed like excessive product placement. Some fans noted how 1979′s Moonraker included plenty of plugs for Marlboro cigarettes, British Airways and 7-Up. The 2006 Casino Royale movie, Craig’s debut as Bond, was noted for how it shoehorned a reference for Omega watches into a key scene with Craig’s Bond and Eva Green’s Vesper Lynd. Documentary filmmaker Morgan Spurlock, who had done a film on product placement, included 007 films in his critique.
The initial announcement of Heineken’s Skyfall deal wasn’t handled well: Heineken’s Feb. 8 press release announcing the product-placement deal had a lot of chest-thumping by both the company and Eon Productions, which produces the 007 movies:
Alexis Nasard, Chief Commercial Officer of HEINEKEN said: “When two great brands like Heineken® and James Bond join together, excitement is guaranteed. We are proud of our long standing partnership. The trust that we have built has allowed us to take the partnership to a new level by linking SKYFALL directly with our award winning global ‘Open Your World’ campaign. We are confident our activation plan will ignite the conversation with our consumers and film viewers.”
Michael G. Wilson and Barbara Broccoli, the SKYFALL producers added: “The level of collaboration with Heineken® is unprecedented. We are excited by the global reach and the creativity that the Heineken® team is able to deliver.”
Of course, Heineken and Eon could have mentioned that 007 had consumed beer in Ian Fleming’s novels and Eon’s movies. Evidently, they were so busy discussing how wonderful they were, that fact just couldn’t be squeezed into the press release. Make no mistake, when a press release quotes an executive, those quotes are approved by the executive ahead of time. This wasn’t an oversight. This is the message Heineken and Eon wanted to get across. Translation of said message: “We’re wonderful, you’re lucky to have us.”
Timing is everything: In this case, the timing was bad. Yes, Bond drank more than just martinis on the page and on the screen. (In Live And Let Die, director Guy Hamilton and screenwriter Tom Mankiewicz made a point of having first-time 007 Roger Moore drink bourbon to avoid comparisons with Sean Connery.) But Bond was, for better or worse, identified with martinis in movies.
In addition, the Casino Royale reboot shook things up. The movie turned the traditional Bond formula on its head as we watched a thuggish Bond learn to be a gentleman. They could have chose to shown how a gentleman learned to become tough (this is not an original observation on our part) but the filmmakers didn’t take that approach. During Casino Royale’s marketing, we were told, the film shows “how James became Bond.” We were told by the end of the movie, the James Bond we all knew would emerge. Then, in 2008′s Quantum of Solace, we were told that James wasn’t Bond just yet. Hence, the gunbarrel scene, again, wasn’t at the start of the movie.
As a result, in the last six years, Bond fans have processed at lot of change. The Heineken deal meant yet more change and that’s been the theme of much of the coverage since the deal was first announced. Maud Adams, who appeared in two 007 films, said “this has gone too far. Martini was something elegant when I served Roger Moore and it is elegant to this day.”
Some fans say this was all planned by Heineken to get publicity. We doubt it. Most companies don’t like publicity where people dump on you. This probably will blow over. Then again, we first thought this would have blown over by now.
UPDATE: According to A YAHOO! MOVIES POST blog post, Michael G. Wilson told reporters in Mexico (he was speaking from the U.K.) that: “Bond would sup Heineken in the film, but added that he would drink Vodka Martinis as well.”
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
It's okay to dislike Craig and I think you do. I think he's great but I couldn't stand the whole Roger Moore ouevre. The very thought of Sheriff JW Pepper is enough to cause me to break out in hives . . . in fact, wait a minute. Had to stick myself with an epi pen. Poor Ian Fleming. Hollywood took his morose, chain smoking, alcoholic assassin and turned him into an elderly poofter (not that there's anything wrong with that) in a safari suit.
While I equally detest Rog's run, I wonder how much of his performance was based on the Connery blueprint in DAF which itself had been finnessed from the thickening-round-the-waste travelling saleman of YOLT?
EON/Cubby/Harry had themselves clearly given up on the Bondian image as a fit young man with the failure of Lazenby (not at the box-office but in other areas) and felt happier with the middle age comedian image.
And after watching Rog last night for the 1000th time in THE MAN WHO HAUNTED HIMSELF, I'm quite sure he could have given a harder, more ruggedly dark performance than he did. Had he been asked or required to, of course.
Daniel Craig has defended James Bond's new partnership with Dutch beer company Heineken, calling it "an unfortunate" but necessary part of making a film on this large a scale.
"We have relationships with a number of companies so that we can make this movie. The simple fact is, without them, we couldn't do it. It's unfortunate but that is how it is."
"This movie costs a lot of money to make, it costs nearly as much again to promote, so we go where we can.
"The great thing is that Bond is a drinker, he always has been, it's part of who he is, rightly or wrongly, you can make your own judgement about it. Having a beer is no bad thing, in the movie it just happens to be Heineken.
"There's a big furore about it, but it's not what the movie is about, I promise you. We haven't sold out completely."
"It's my favourite choice of beer. I drink it every morning - doesn't everybody?"
It seems to me that Craig is a bit embarrassed, not only with having to say the line (which is obviously a plug), but with the fact he has to do it.... yet he knows it's part of the process (sad or not, and I do think it's sad... TP you made a good point...I'ts just a little sad that the films have got themselves in to so much trouble that they need
to have Bond himself Order it, as they seem to need the money. so has to go along with it.
I agree... it's one thing ordering a Vodka Martini, but to order a specific brand of vodka like we saw in Casino Royale, changes the whole spin. Now I realise Fleming did this in the books, but that was because he was trying to get across his personal taste... and educate the readers in what HE considered 'educated/classy' - but now, in the movies, it's just about how much $'s they can get, regardless wether the brand is particularly good (I mean who orders a Heineken??? ) ) - and although Craig is right in saying it shouldn't be the focus of the movie... it will be, as it's not delivered with subtly, but with a great big sledge hammer of a thump.
She's worth whatever chaos she brings to the table and you know it. ~ Mark Anthony
t seems to me that Craig is a bit embarrassed, not only with having to say the line (which is obviously a plug), but with the fact he has to do it.... yet he knows it's part of the process (sad or not, and I do think it's sad... TP you made a good point...I'ts just a little sad that the films have got themselves in to so much trouble that they need
to have Bond himself Order it, as they seem to need the money. so has to go along with it.
I agree... it's one thing ordering a Vodka Martini, but to order a specific brand of vodka like we saw in Casino Royale, changes the whole spin. Now I realise Fleming did this in the books, but that was because he was trying to get across his personal taste... and educate the readers in what HE considered 'educated/classy' - but now, in the movies, it's just about how much $'s they can get, regardless wether the brand is particularly good (I mean who orders a Heineken??? ) ) - and although Craig is right in saying it shouldn't be the focus of the movie... it will be, as it's not delivered with subtly, but with a great big sledge hammer of a thump.
Do you think Craigy's also embarrassed by flogging Omega watches and hawking Tom Ford suits.?Or does all the free stuff he gets in return make up for it?
Or has he always done it all so they can just put on a show?
Oh geez. Who cares how Craig feels. He's doing his job. It's not his call, and it aint up to him. It's part of the game you play in entertainment. Do you want another Bond film, or not people? Wipe your tears, and move on.
I think that DC probably feels that Heineken is not a good fit, whereas Tom Ford & Omega feel more in keeping. DC may well drink Heineken, but the point is that Bond would not. I would see less of an issue with Staropramen, or Bitburger, but am not unduly bothred one way or another.
Do you remember all of the shock and horror that ' Bond drives a Ford' ? In the end it was just a Hire car from the Airport and did not harm the film at all.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
A fair point about Red Stripe being part of the local colour when Bond ordered one in the TMWTGG novel...but in that vein, Heineken is a worldwide brand...perhaps the verisimilitude would be greater if Bond ordered a Tsingtao in China...but the $$ isn't there... ) Filmmaking is all about compromise, all the time.
I'm not bothered in the least. Regardless of the motive (Fleming: roots in realism/accessibility, or filmmakers: $$$), the end result is the same---Bond uses brand name items. Relax. Breathe.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Different times, though, to when he was Bond. Still in the 60s, Fleming's original being a definite character of the 50s and 60s, and EON still had Fleming's classic works to film. And EON also had Cubby....
Different times, though, to when he was Bond. Still in the 60s, Fleming's original being a definite character of the 50s and 60s, and EON still had Fleming's classic works to film. And EON also had Cubby....
Could have been worse, could have been Fosters ) Even the Aussies don't drink that stuff
Comments
http://youtu.be/NjD074okg00
Like him or (obviously) not, TP, I believe that Craigger at least knows what he wants the character to be. In the throes of a writer's strike, IMO he deserves credit for stepping up and doing what he could. QoS was flawed, sure, but that was Forster's doing, rather than what I though was a typically strong performance from the lead actor. If Craig had keep his distance, and not involved himself creatively, it likely would have been less good than it was. As ever, opinions and mileage will vary
Ian Fleming did product placement, in the novels, before it was called product placement. I remember James Bond ordering a Red Stripe beer by name, in TMWTGG, and the world kept turning.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
He did, but as far as I understand it wasn't through any formal arrangements with the brands he mentioned. The Heineken deal is paying its way into Bond's mouth, but as of now, it really strikes me as being just as nominal as Fleming's placements in film context.
I think in a way to ground the adventures in the real world.
Also When Bond ordered a red stripe, it was because it was a local Beer
adding to the readers sense of location, so really a chinese Beer should be ordered ( if it
is in the Shanghai location ) or a return for that fine vintage "Phu Yuk"
In reality with all kidding aside Bond Ordering a Heineken is not a huge problem for me.
I'ts just a little sad that the films have got themselves in to so much trouble that they need
to have Bond himself Order it, as they seem to need the money.
As opposed to simply having it on the table in the scene, with Bond adding "I'll have one of those "
Then again who know mabey that is how it will end up as.
twist over nothing.
The FULL article.
Bond Girl Maud Adams Unhappy With 007'S Beer
http://www.contactmusic.com/news/bond-girl-maud-adams-unhappy-with-007s-beer_1320679
One mans Caring , Is anothers "Control Freak", Can't he Trust the script writers or
do they need his imput to make it really great.
I wonder does he give S Mendes tips on Direction, or does he trust him enough to
do his job.
As for collecting a Paycheck It is funny how Even S Mendes said he didn't think DC
was suited for Bond, Until he started to be Paid to direct the movie, Now he's a Big Fan.
Fully agree with both of you & Loeffelholz's post covers my views more than sufficiently.
TP - It's clear you hold zero love for Mr Craig, but do you genuinely believe that he's some sort of megalomaniac? I'm pretty sure that scripts are drafted, re-drafted, re-re-drafted etc etc, so during the Strike I'm somewhat certain it would have been a case of all hands to the pump in order to make the best of a naff situation. Ok it was clearly far from perfect when it came to screen, but at least he's held his hands up rather than acting like a precious primadonna and blaming all & sundry for lesser standard work.
As far as I'm aware, most actors (worth their salt) give Directors input on scenes / ideas, so I'm sure DC wouldn't be alone if he did this in Skyfall. Not certain that this necessarily makes him a control freak, but I'll gladly beg to differ.
I really don't know where you guys get that idea.
But yes sometimes I imagine him stroking a White cat............ ( I holding a pack of hounds at the time )
( I'd like to point out I'm joking, in case someone thinks I really don't like him )
And you are correct 77007, I played with the context of the quote, well If politicians can do it..............................
As many know. I never let facts or Logic get in the way of my arguments. :007)
It's okay to dislike Craig and I think you do. I think he's great but I couldn't stand the whole Roger Moore ouevre. The very thought of Sheriff JW Pepper is enough to cause me to break out in hives . . . in fact, wait a minute. Had to stick myself with an epi pen. Poor Ian Fleming. Hollywood took his morose, chain smoking, alcoholic assassin and turned him into an elderly poofter (not that there's anything wrong with that) in a safari suit.
http://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/
While I equally detest Rog's run, I wonder how much of his performance was based on the Connery blueprint in DAF which itself had been finnessed from the thickening-round-the-waste travelling saleman of YOLT?
EON/Cubby/Harry had themselves clearly given up on the Bondian image as a fit young man with the failure of Lazenby (not at the box-office but in other areas) and felt happier with the middle age comedian image.
And after watching Rog last night for the 1000th time in THE MAN WHO HAUNTED HIMSELF, I'm quite sure he could have given a harder, more ruggedly dark performance than he did. Had he been asked or required to, of course.
It seems to me that Craig is a bit embarrassed, not only with having to say the line (which is obviously a plug), but with the fact he has to do it.... yet he knows it's part of the process (sad or not, and I do think it's sad... TP you made a good point...I'ts just a little sad that the films have got themselves in to so much trouble that they need
to have Bond himself Order it, as they seem to need the money. so has to go along with it.
I agree... it's one thing ordering a Vodka Martini, but to order a specific brand of vodka like we saw in Casino Royale, changes the whole spin. Now I realise Fleming did this in the books, but that was because he was trying to get across his personal taste... and educate the readers in what HE considered 'educated/classy' - but now, in the movies, it's just about how much $'s they can get, regardless wether the brand is particularly good (I mean who orders a Heineken???
Do you think Craigy's also embarrassed by flogging Omega watches and hawking Tom Ford suits.?Or does all the free stuff he gets in return make up for it?
Or has he always done it all so they can just put on a show?
Do you remember all of the shock and horror that ' Bond drives a Ford' ? In the end it was just a Hire car from the Airport and did not harm the film at all.
I'm not bothered in the least. Regardless of the motive (Fleming: roots in realism/accessibility, or filmmakers: $$$), the end result is the same---Bond uses brand name items. Relax. Breathe.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Vesper: Doesn't it bother you? Pimping all those products?
Bond: I wouldn't be very good at my job if it did.
-{
http://youtu.be/doZgAZu5CFs
"Oh, Behave "
From serious North London Guardianista actor to salesman in 6 years.
Products corrupt. Total products corrupt totally.
Ex-James Bond OUTRAGED
http://www.tmz.com/2012/05/23/james-bond-george-lazenby-heineken-replaces-martini/
As an Aussie, George'd know!!!!
Different times, though, to when he was Bond. Still in the 60s, Fleming's original being a definite character of the 50s and 60s, and EON still had Fleming's classic works to film. And EON also had Cubby....
Could have been worse, could have been Fosters
"i can't believe he drank heiny!"
i'm more interested in the plot, acting etc than a bit of product placement, which is pretty much SOP these days.
let it go guys, concentrate on the more important stuff.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Interesting to see that you are not anymore interested in props - well as long as my MR cam gets done
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!