It's obvious to many why 'coming out' shouldn't matter or shouldn't be news, but sadly, it does matter. There's still tons of people who are afraid to be out and there's still room for the interpretation that omitting one's being gay is due to shame or thinking less of oneself. Hence, I give congratulations to Ellen Paige and US football player Michael Sam.
I don't think all the people on twitter saying things like "duh" or "this doesn't matter so no need to hear about it" in response to a public figure or acquaintance coming out realize that it's a rather discomforting thing to say to someone who clearly waited or had apprehension about having it known for a reason (not to mention, many of them are asked about it over their careers). People get curious about each other personally and many times it's going to be asked or will come up in interviews, and that's perfectly nice, but that also reflects the fact that the public in general does have an interest in the nature of people's relationships still. And just because it's not the first person you've heard it from, doesn't mean it isn't new for the person saying it.
Instead of saying it's alright and congratulations you make it out to be that it's stupid for them to have felt concern and to have thought they recognized others out there feel that concern too, as if you know better what it's like? I can't imagine many people can say for the first time that they're gay in a conversation with their parents or best friends and not have the conversation shift to that information yet, or in the case of celebrities, to say it to a longtime following and anticipate no reaction. It seems only in the last couple of years that it has been mentioned casually by any celebrities, and those still received wide reaction.
Fact is, there are people who still have a problem with it (there's been public and peer backlash comments for the athletes especially), or it wouldn't matter anymore and the requested laws would have long been in place and coming out wouldn't be a personal event. But I'd hope people know better that it's obviously not the case yet in all the lucky developed nations and even more so elsewhere.
It's obvious to many why 'coming out' shouldn't matter or shouldn't be news, but sadly, it does matter. There's still tons of people who are afraid to be out and there's still room for the interpretation that omitting one's being gay is due to shame or thinking less of oneself. Hence, I give congratulations to Ellen Paige and US football player Michael Sam.
I don't think all the people on twitter saying things like "duh" or "this doesn't matter so no need to hear about it" in response to a public figure or acquaintance coming out realize that it's a rather discomforting thing to say to someone who clearly waited or had apprehension about having it known for a reason (not to mention, many of them are asked about it over their careers). People get curious about each other personally and many times it's going to be asked or will come up in interviews, and that's perfectly nice, but that also reflects the fact that the public in general does have an interest in the nature of people's relationships still. And just because it's not the first person you've heard it from, doesn't mean it isn't new for the person saying it.
Instead of saying it's alright and congratulations you make it out to be that it's stupid for them to have felt concern and to have thought they recognized others out there feel that concern too, as if you know better what it's like? I can't imagine many people can say for the first time that they're gay in a conversation with their parents or best friends and not have the conversation shift to that information yet, or in the case of celebrities, to say it to a longtime following and anticipate no reaction. It seems only in the last couple of years that it has been mentioned casually by any celebrities, and those still received wide reaction.
Fact is, there are people who still have a problem with it (there's been public and peer backlash comments for the athletes especially), or it wouldn't matter anymore and the requested laws would have long been in place and coming out wouldn't be a personal event. But I'd hope people know better that it's obviously not the case yet in all the lucky developed nations and even more so elsewhere.
I get what you're saying about its a shame gay people having to build up confidence to announce they're gay and there's still prejudice about it, but why is it made such a big deal of?
If someone I was working with announced they were gay, or a friend told me, or even a family member said they were gay, I'd be like a) wtf do I care and b) wtf has it got to do with me?
It's almost as if it's used as some form of publicity stunt. "I wouldn't be where I am today without being true to myself and being gay" huh? Being gay made you what you are? No, being gay, or straight or bi or transgender is what makes you WHO you are, it doesn't effect your ability to do a job well or be a good friend or make a decent film, or kick a football or jump off a diving board.
For years now the approach to gay people has been constantly changing from 'get him over there the poof' to 'I now announce you husband and husband'. It's now widely accepted that gay people are just the same as anyone else, they have rights, they can marry etc etc.
In some respects, and yes I have seen this, being gay is for some simply an attention seeking label. Look at me, I'm gay, I'm a raving queen! Please. 8-) I once lived with a lad who was obviously gay and he eventually plucked up the courage to tell the rest of the house (student digs) about his sexual orientation. The responce he got wasn't a big group hug but 'we've known for ages mate, no biggy.' And then attentions turned back to the tv.
I honestly think that sometimes putting a label on yourself only makes you stand further apart from the rest if society instead of intergrating.
'The new track from the latest black artist' 'gay artist launches exhibition' 'film star comes out'
Honestly, in this day and age who that matters gives a flying one about your skin colour, orientation, race, country or any other label you try to pin on yourself?
Maybe I should start describing myself as 'just another white straight guy'?
I get what you're saying about its a shame gay people having to build up confidence to announce they're gay and there's still prejudice about it, but why is it made such a big deal of?
If someone I was working with announced they were gay, or a friend told me, or even a family member said they were gay, I'd be like a) wtf do I care and b) wtf has it got to do with me?
It's almost as if it's used as some form of publicity stunt. "I wouldn't be where I am today without being true to myself and being gay" huh? Being gay made you what you are? No, being gay, or straight or bi or transgender is what makes you WHO you are, it doesn't effect your ability to do a job well or be a good friend or make a decent film, or kick a football or jump off a diving board.
For years now the approach to gay people has been constantly changing from 'get him over there the poof' to 'I now announce you husband and husband'. It's now widely accepted that gay people are just the same as anyone else, they have rights, they can marry etc etc.
In some respects, and yes I have seen this, being gay is for some simply an attention seeking label. Look at me, I'm gay, I'm a raving queen! Please. 8-) I once lived with a lad who was obviously gay and he eventually plucked up the courage to tell the rest of the house (student digs) about his sexual orientation. The responce he got wasn't a big group hug but 'we've known for ages mate, no biggy.' And then attentions turned back to the tv.
I honestly think that sometimes putting a label on yourself only makes you stand further apart from the rest if society instead of intergrating.
'The new track from the latest black artist' 'gay artist launches exhibition' 'film star comes out'
Honestly, in this day and age who that matters gives a flying one about your skin colour, orientation, race, country or any other label you try to pin on yourself?
Maybe I should start describing myself as 'just another white straight guy'?
Short version: You're in a bubble where all the progress finished and nobody can't get married or tell their Christian friends or tell their friends who they spent a long time nervously lying to about being straight. You should very well know that not everyone is so callous about it being an issue or topic. It is an issue and a topic for many and recent change doesn't mean gays didn't grow up with a different picture in mind of public opinions. The laws and universal acceptance aren't there yet and if gays don't say so, I'm not sure why anyone would expect the positive change to continue in places where it hasn't finished like most of the US and most of the world such as the currently newsworthy Russia, India, Uganda, and Nigeria. Rest assured, gay people have given far more thought about how and why to come out than you have.
But I don't think gay people know they can expect their relationships to go unchanged in family or in the workplace. At least, it isn't certain everywhere or for everyone. And it's not legal for gays to marry in most of the US or most of the world. Quite the opposite in places if you've heard about India, Uganda, Nigeria, or Russia just in the last month or two.
And the wide acceptance is rather new. It's within the last few years that the big acceptance has come about, but according to the numbers here, the accepting majority isn't leading by too much of a margin. But just back to the simple fact that it is new, well that says a lot about why it still matters so much to gay people. The vast majority of the people who are old enough to be faced with coming out or being out didn't grow up with it being a frequent topic of acceptance in the media or among acquaintances. It was still taboo (perhaps more in the US, where only one state newly allowed gays to marry 10 years ago). Heck, gays could be removed from juries here over it and its just getting attention this year.
It's great for you that you feel so little about it, to the point where you seem to have more animosity towards others caring about it. But the people coming out aren't the ones covering themselves in the news and tweeting about it. Even when they say it casually, its something the people just spread around. It's still something to most people because it hasn't been a given that someone could be out and not be considering of consequence.
And I sure hope you would understand that if someone does come out to you, there's part of them uncertain if you will have a specific reaction to them. As Ellen Paige said, the omission and hiding wears a person down, and I'm sure for others who have had many conversations with friends where they felt the need to lie feel similarly. You can't blame them for wondering if their friend who they know thinks they've been straight through a number of conversations over the years is going to be upset or shocked or feel distanced by the revelation. Parents especially build up ideas and see their kids maybe even date as if they're heterosexual and then it's out the window. People commonly say that when coming out to parents, "you have to give them time to grieve the person they expected you to be." And yes, the person they expected include a bit of who you're with one day and who you like and maybe even culture you like that you hid before.
Those things can easily be just some of the reasons why it feels like a big deal for most still, but worse still is that many people do have a difficult reaction. Sometimes it's not even an overt opposition to gays, but just a subconscious discomfort with the sense of deceit or with the closeness to someone who has different attractions than assumed.
I guess there's just a whole lot more I could type about this, but it seems like you really aren't that empathetic for why coming out can be so stressful. What if a gay person's boss happens to be one of the many Christians who still says "I don't agree with it, but whatever"? The "agree" part shows some ignorance, but can you trust the "whatever" to mean they'll feel just as much like a buddy as before they knew?
Even perhaps the gayest star Cher famously has disapproved of her now son both when he came out as a lesbian and when he transitioned genders to male. She came around both times, but the reaction was certainly not a positive one either time, especially to gays who thought Cher of all people would accept.
I think it is indeed widely accepted now, but the issue is, there's still a worst case scenario when it comes to family, friends, co-workers, etc. There's still the question of how they really feel about it. And when you're trying really hard to blend in, you can't comfortably be the one talking about the issue to find out if it's okay before coming out. So you take the guess and hope people weren't serious about using "faggot" or whatever they do or say.
Just this week, the polls were released about how the US football players feel about the first out player coming to the league and just under 1 in 5 said they aren't okay with it, 1 in 4 said they're uncomfortable sharing the showers with him, and around a third said their teams have used homophobic language recently. I'd say for anyone in sports looking for an example that it will be fine, they are probably paying a lot of attention to Micheal Sams now because they surely have had the impression that there will indeed be people on their own teams who make the athletic experience worrisome. It shouldn't matter, but it definitely is big news.
And if gays stop saying they're gay, will anyone be trying to person equality legislation? Will Russia and India get better or worse? I don't think the point where it truly doesn't have to be said has been reached at all. It seems like it's just pretty recent that the countries faced started facing their laws to acknowledge gay people exist.
South Korean fans are really cyber bullying Elise Christie for her short track crash in the Olympics? Are you kidding me? No country has had more DQ's than South Korea in each of the last three Olympics. No one skates dirtier than that team. Real shame since the Olympics should be about bringing countries together.
I get what you're saying about its a shame gay people having to build up confidence to announce they're gay and there's still prejudice about it, but why is it made such a big deal of?
If someone I was working with announced they were gay, or a friend told me, or even a family member said they were gay, I'd be like a) wtf do I care and b) wtf has it got to do with me?
It's almost as if it's used as some form of publicity stunt. "I wouldn't be where I am today without being true to myself and being gay" huh? Being gay made you what you are? No, being gay, or straight or bi or transgender is what makes you WHO you are, it doesn't effect your ability to do a job well or be a good friend or make a decent film, or kick a football or jump off a diving board.
For years now the approach to gay people has been constantly changing from 'get him over there the poof' to 'I now announce you husband and husband'. It's now widely accepted that gay people are just the same as anyone else, they have rights, they can marry etc etc.
In some respects, and yes I have seen this, being gay is for some simply an attention seeking label. Look at me, I'm gay, I'm a raving queen! Please. 8-) I once lived with a lad who was obviously gay and he eventually plucked up the courage to tell the rest of the house (student digs) about his sexual orientation. The responce he got wasn't a big group hug but 'we've known for ages mate, no biggy.' And then attentions turned back to the tv.
I honestly think that sometimes putting a label on yourself only makes you stand further apart from the rest if society instead of intergrating.
'The new track from the latest black artist' 'gay artist launches exhibition' 'film star comes out'
Honestly, in this day and age who that matters gives a flying one about your skin colour, orientation, race, country or any other label you try to pin on yourself?
Maybe I should start describing myself as 'just another white straight guy'?
Short version: You're in a bubble where all the progress finished and nobody can't get married or tell their Christian friends or tell their friends who they spent a long time nervously lying to about being straight. You should very well know that not everyone is so callous about it being an issue or topic. It is an issue and a topic for many and recent change doesn't mean gays didn't grow up with a different picture in mind of public opinions. The laws and universal acceptance aren't there yet and if gays don't say so, I'm not sure why anyone would expect the positive change to continue in places where it hasn't finished like most of the US and most of the world such as the currently newsworthy Russia, India, Uganda, and Nigeria. Rest assured, gay people have given far more thought about how and why to come out than you have.
But I don't think gay people know they can expect their relationships to go unchanged in family or in the workplace. At least, it isn't certain everywhere or for everyone. And it's not legal for gays to marry in most of the US or most of the world. Quite the opposite in places if you've heard about India, Uganda, Nigeria, or Russia just in the last month or two.
And the wide acceptance is rather new. It's within the last few years that the big acceptance has come about, but according to the numbers here, the accepting majority isn't leading by too much of a margin. But just back to the simple fact that it is new, well that says a lot about why it still matters so much to gay people. The vast majority of the people who are old enough to be faced with coming out or being out didn't grow up with it being a frequent topic of acceptance in the media or among acquaintances. It was still taboo (perhaps more in the US, where only one state newly allowed gays to marry 10 years ago). Heck, gays could be removed from juries here over it and its just getting attention this year.
It's great for you that you feel so little about it, to the point where you seem to have more animosity towards others caring about it. But the people coming out aren't the ones covering themselves in the news and tweeting about it. Even when they say it casually, its something the people just spread around. It's still something to most people because it hasn't been a given that someone could be out and not be considering of consequence.
And I sure hope you would understand that if someone does come out to you, there's part of them uncertain if you will have a specific reaction to them. As Ellen Paige said, the omission and hiding wears a person down, and I'm sure for others who have had many conversations with friends where they felt the need to lie feel similarly. You can't blame them for wondering if their friend who they know thinks they've been straight through a number of conversations over the years is going to be upset or shocked or feel distanced by the revelation. Parents especially build up ideas and see their kids maybe even date as if they're heterosexual and then it's out the window. People commonly say that when coming out to parents, "you have to give them time to grieve the person they expected you to be." And yes, the person they expected include a bit of who you're with one day and who you like and maybe even culture you like that you hid before.
Those things can easily be just some of the reasons why it feels like a big deal for most still, but worse still is that many people do have a difficult reaction. Sometimes it's not even an overt opposition to gays, but just a subconscious discomfort with the sense of deceit or with the closeness to someone who has different attractions than assumed.
I guess there's just a whole lot more I could type about this, but it seems like you really aren't that empathetic for why coming out can be so stressful. What if a gay person's boss happens to be one of the many Christians who still says "I don't agree with it, but whatever"? The "agree" part shows some ignorance, but can you trust the "whatever" to mean they'll feel just as much like a buddy as before they knew?
Even perhaps the gayest star Cher famously has disapproved of her now son both when he came out as a lesbian and when he transitioned genders to male. She came around both times, but the reaction was certainly not a positive one either time, especially to gays who thought Cher of all people would accept.
I think it is indeed widely accepted now, but the issue is, there's still a worst case scenario when it comes to family, friends, co-workers, etc. There's still the question of how they really feel about it. And when you're trying really hard to blend in, you can't comfortably be the one talking about the issue to find out if it's okay before coming out. So you take the guess and hope people weren't serious about using "faggot" or whatever they do or say.
Just this week, the polls were released about how the US football players feel about the first out player coming to the league and just under 1 in 5 said they aren't okay with it, 1 in 4 said they're uncomfortable sharing the showers with him, and around a third said their teams have used homophobic language recently. I'd say for anyone in sports looking for an example that it will be fine, they are probably paying a lot of attention to Micheal Sams now because they surely have had the impression that there will indeed be people on their own teams who make the athletic experience worrisome. It shouldn't matter, but it definitely is big news.
And if gays stop saying they're gay, will anyone be trying to person equality legislation? Will Russia and India get better or worse? I don't think the point where it truly doesn't have to be said has been reached at all. It seems like it's just pretty recent that the countries faced started facing their laws to acknowledge gay people exist.
Ok, so I get where you're coming from, about the majority of the world being behind the times as such and it still being very daunting, or even life threatening to come out.
Couple of things you said stuck out for me though, first about someone coming out to long time Christian friends who might not be completely ok with it, plus the list of countries that aren't accepting the hwole gay orientation, the common denominator of course is the thorn in the side of the modern world, and this might sting a bit; religion.
I was born into a christian family, christened and got married and said my vows in a christian church and swore my oath to love and to cherish etc to god, or allah, or whoever else you wanna call him, her, it etc.
But I wouldn't class myself as a deeply religious person. I don't go to church every sunday, tbh, my wedding was my last visit and some may say this is hypocritical of me. The thing is though is that I've seen such suffering and terrible pain in life that I can't honestly believe in some overseeing lord who loves us all. Additionally, I don't need any religion to be a nice person, that's been taught to me by my parents, who, in my humble opinion did an ok job.
The other thing that knocks my faith is the inability of people to simply let others get on with it. The countries you listed are mainly catholic no? What ever happened to love thy neighbour? The thing with religion is it's so open to misinterpretation a lot of people end up using it as an excuse for violence. My god's better than yours, you don't believe in my god therefore I'm allowed to kill you etc. I am exteremly fortunate. In my part of the world I live where prejudice towards gay people is on the decline and the majority of people are accepting of others. There are however plenty of people, some may say the older generations, who find it difficult to accept gay people, or coloured people etc etc. See, I dunno even what to 'call' people, is it coloured? Is it black? Does either cause offence? Forgive my ignorance, but you're either a tosser or not, colour, sexual orientation or any other label people wanna pin on just doesn't compute with me simply because in my mind it doesn't matter. You get good and bad in all walks of life and the colour of your skin or who you fancy or what god you worship means very little to me.
Another aspect is that I know people, again, usually older people who don't like the idea of gay people etc, and to me thats fine. Who am I to tell people what to think? These people I assume are pretty aware of my views, but they don't try and convert me into their way of thinking.
My advice, let people get on with their lives. I find it a shame that many people have to hide away as their society isn't generally as accepting as mine, but for the people in the western world i think they'd find that most people wouldn't bat an eyelid when they finally came out. Plus, if I were gay, which would I prefer in life, a group of mates who only like me because they didn't know I was gay (who aren't worth having as friends are they?) or being true to myself and living my life how I wanted to? If your religion or group of friends doesn't accept you for what you are, are they worth having in your life? I know this question is harder to answer the stronger the relation the person in question has to you, but if it's just friends we're talking about, is it that difficult a choice? I dunno, just putting that one out there.
I've no animosity towards people being honest with themselves and it's not that I don't feel bad for people who are repressed by their socety. But I couldn't give too shakes of a rat's ass if you are gay but what I can't stand is gay people declaring it to the world like it's something special and everyone must stop what they're doing and give a round of applause for it. But as society in my boggy swamp continues to accept gay people I don't see how I have to be constantly ordered that I have to like gay people. I already do.
People who focus on their prejudices are bored. They need hobbies, or hard work, or a dog. Something to do with their energy besides finding individuals or groups to dislike or hate.
Ok, so I get where you're coming from, about the majority of the world being behind the times as such and it still being very daunting, or even life threatening to come out.
Couple of things you said stuck out for me though, first about someone coming out to long time Christian friends who might not be completely ok with it, plus the list of countries that aren't accepting the hwole gay orientation, the common denominator of course is the thorn in the side of the modern world, and this might sting a bit; religion.
I was born into a christian family, christened and got married and said my vows in a christian church and swore my oath to love and to cherish etc to god, or allah, or whoever else you wanna call him, her, it etc.
But I wouldn't class myself as a deeply religious person. I don't go to church every sunday, tbh, my wedding was my last visit and some may say this is hypocritical of me. The thing is though is that I've seen such suffering and terrible pain in life that I can't honestly believe in some overseeing lord who loves us all. Additionally, I don't need any religion to be a nice person, that's been taught to me by my parents, who, in my humble opinion did an ok job.
The other thing that knocks my faith is the inability of people to simply let others get on with it. The countries you listed are mainly catholic no? What ever happened to love thy neighbour? The thing with religion is it's so open to misinterpretation a lot of people end up using it as an excuse for violence. My god's better than yours, you don't believe in my god therefore I'm allowed to kill you etc. I am exteremly fortunate. In my part of the world I live where prejudice towards gay people is on the decline and the majority of people are accepting of others. There are however plenty of people, some may say the older generations, who find it difficult to accept gay people, or coloured people etc etc. See, I dunno even what to 'call' people, is it coloured? Is it black? Does either cause offence? Forgive my ignorance, but you're either a tosser or not, colour, sexual orientation or any other label people wanna pin on just doesn't compute with me simply because in my mind it doesn't matter. You get good and bad in all walks of life and the colour of your skin or who you fancy or what god you worship means very little to me.
Another aspect is that I know people, again, usually older people who don't like the idea of gay people etc, and to me thats fine. Who am I to tell people what to think? These people I assume are pretty aware of my views, but they don't try and convert me into their way of thinking.
My advice, let people get on with their lives. I find it a shame that many people have to hide away as their society isn't generally as accepting as mine, but for the people in the western world i think they'd find that most people wouldn't bat an eyelid when they finally came out. Plus, if I were gay, which would I prefer in life, a group of mates who only like me because they didn't know I was gay (who aren't worth having as friends are they?) or being true to myself and living my life how I wanted to? If your religion or group of friends doesn't accept you for what you are, are they worth having in your life? I know this question is harder to answer the stronger the relation the person in question has to you, but if it's just friends we're talking about, is it that difficult a choice? I dunno, just putting that one out there.
I've no animosity towards people being honest with themselves and it's not that I don't feel bad for people who are repressed by their socety. But I couldn't give too shakes of a rat's ass if you are gay but what I can't stand is gay people declaring it to the world like it's something special and everyone must stop what they're doing and give a round of applause for it. But as society in my boggy swamp continues to accept gay people I don't see how I have to be constantly ordered that I have to like gay people. I already do.
I appreciate what you've said minigeff. I was raised by Christian parents and went to a Christian school for my first ten school years, but am no longer religious. I certainly don't think it's great to argue with older generations or religious people who aren't accepting because in many ways, it shouldn't have an affect beyond their own families. But I think people do argue because those groups make up a large percentage of the vote and influence the behavior of their descendants. They're the ones who are preventing the actual laws from changing. Their opinions aren't that scary, but their actions are. Once the legal issue is over with in the western countries, there will certainly be less attention needed for that cause.
But for now, there's a number of places where the majority of voter's still pursue new discrimination laws or support existing ones here in the US (it's a very active topic here as the states and the nation are all on their own timelines regarding the issue). The need for gays to be vocal likely isn't as much of a social cause in the western world anymore, so much as a political one. No one will change the laws or think discriminatory laws need to be altered if the people affected don't ask for it (perhaps an obvious factor for this particular minority having to specifically name the trait out loud is that it is one that may not be acknowledgeable or countable if it isn't specifically stated). Most of the world needs more than just laws to change, so they still need the people affected to speak until they aren't singled out anymore. They have to be accounted for wherever they live. Then they'll stop singling themselves out, as well.
Remember good old days when adverts were them things in between programmes on channel 4 and itv? They could also be found in the back pages of your fortnightly subscription or on the side of buses.
Now the damn things are everywhere.
I wake up and get breakie with micro, in between her Peppa pig and Thomas the tank are numerous ads for toys, then a load of junk mail comes through the letter box.
I check the email and delete the spam, then head out to work. The morning commute takes me past several pubs and restaurants who have billboards outside that spout out about the next upcoming event, valentines, Mother's Day, whatever the next commercially invented day is. A learner driver goes past with 'sponsored by' stickers all over its arse.
When I get to work there's more junk mail in my pigeon hole, and the email is full of spam again. I then get a text telling me I'm entitled to £2k compo for that car accident I never had, and a woman calls me to say my phone can be upgraded to an iPhone 5 for only £150.
When I return home it's yet more ads in between shows, so a quick look on YouTube to spend the time laughing at idiots falling off their bikes results in 'skip this ad in 5 seconds' being displayed.
A look through the tv channels ends in me finding the advert channel. "That's right jim, you get the bucket, the mop, the steam cleaner and a philippino maid to do all the work for just $99,999 and 99c."
So I turn to one of my books I'm reading only to notice that in the front and back covers are adverts for books of the same author and publisher.
I give up, is there anywhere I can look these days without an ad springing out at me?!
Apparently YouTube are going to put ads in the middle of clips, so you think you've got away with it, settle down to watch the clip then bam, another bloody ad.
I think I'll just jump on the band wagon and start advertising with my flatulence....
PAAARP!!! "That fart was brought to you in conjunction with Russel's sprouts, the veg grown in a hedge with a pledge to earn you a wedge!!"
Now I've never been into book burning, and there are few people more right wing and into a free economy and market forces than I, but this is ludicrous. And immoral compared with say, the NHS, non-clerical, sharp end. and the poor buggers struggling with mortgages.
Football should be banned, immediately.
After all, the building trade in the UK is booming and there's a demand for builders' labourers.
Remember good old days when adverts were them things in between programmes on channel 4 and itv? They could also be found in the back pages of your fortnightly subscription or on the side of buses.
Now the damn things are everywhere.
I wake up and get breakie with micro, in between her Peppa pig and Thomas the tank are numerous ads for toys, then a load of junk mail comes through the letter box.
I check the email and delete the spam, then head out to work. The morning commute takes me past several pubs and restaurants who have billboards outside that spout out about the next upcoming event, valentines, Mother's Day, whatever the next commercially invented day is. A learner driver goes past with 'sponsored by' stickers all over its arse.
When I get to work there's more junk mail in my pigeon hole, and the email is full of spam again. I then get a text telling me I'm entitled to £2k compo for that car accident I never had, and a woman calls me to say my phone can be upgraded to an iPhone 5 for only £150.
When I return home it's yet more ads in between shows, so a quick look on YouTube to spend the time laughing at idiots falling off their bikes results in 'skip this ad in 5 seconds' being displayed.
A look through the tv channels ends in me finding the advert channel. "That's right jim, you get the bucket, the mop, the steam cleaner and a philippino maid to do all the work for just $99,999 and 99c."
So I turn to one of my books I'm reading only to notice that in the front and back covers are adverts for books of the same author and publisher.
I give up, is there anywhere I can look these days without an ad springing out at me?!
Calm down, microjiff. Here in AJB you are safe from being advertised.
That does not mean that you not are reminded that I am still waiting for that MR cam
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Now I've never been into book burning, and there are few people more right wing and into a free economy and market forces than I, but this is ludicrous. And immoral compared with say, the NHS, non-clerical, sharp end. and the poor buggers struggling with mortgages.
Football should be banned, immediately.
After all, the building trade in the UK is booming and there's a demand for builders' labourers.
Capitalism. -{ He gets what the market is willing to pay. Good luck to him.
He gets what a rapidly desperate club is willing to pay...remember six months ago they said he wouldn't get the same contract again - £250,000 a week....to be fair they were right, its now £300,000 a week
Add in the fact he has five sponsorship contracts too, which get him about £500,000 a week...and its not a bad life....certainly explains why his missus hangs round when he's at 'grab-a-granny' night !
I saw Inglorious Basterds in a cinema in Reykjavik, Iceland some years ago. To my astonishment there was a five-minute break IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FILM for commercials! Is this barbaric custom common in other countries too, or is it just the Icelanders?
I saw Inglorious Basterds in a cinema in Reykjavik, Iceland some years ago. To my astonishment there was a five-minute break IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FILM for commercials! Is this barbaric custom common in other countries too, or is it just the Icelanders?
the bit I hate about adverts is that the adverts themselves have no bearing on the target audience that is supposed to be watching
example ,big war film on (a bloke film ) its going to be mostly blokes watching it ,then an advert for tampons comes on
ooohhh I must rush out and buy some ,
I hope this crap doesn't spread across europe to us. This would kill going to the cinema for Me, I'd
wait until the bluray and watch it in comfort on my big screen.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
god ,if they had adverts here during a film in the cinema ,I would turn my mobile phone off ,put away my family size bag of crisps,
suck the last molecule of coke out of it 5 litre tub ,fart and walk out
Comments
I don't think all the people on twitter saying things like "duh" or "this doesn't matter so no need to hear about it" in response to a public figure or acquaintance coming out realize that it's a rather discomforting thing to say to someone who clearly waited or had apprehension about having it known for a reason (not to mention, many of them are asked about it over their careers). People get curious about each other personally and many times it's going to be asked or will come up in interviews, and that's perfectly nice, but that also reflects the fact that the public in general does have an interest in the nature of people's relationships still. And just because it's not the first person you've heard it from, doesn't mean it isn't new for the person saying it.
Instead of saying it's alright and congratulations you make it out to be that it's stupid for them to have felt concern and to have thought they recognized others out there feel that concern too, as if you know better what it's like? I can't imagine many people can say for the first time that they're gay in a conversation with their parents or best friends and not have the conversation shift to that information yet, or in the case of celebrities, to say it to a longtime following and anticipate no reaction. It seems only in the last couple of years that it has been mentioned casually by any celebrities, and those still received wide reaction.
Fact is, there are people who still have a problem with it (there's been public and peer backlash comments for the athletes especially), or it wouldn't matter anymore and the requested laws would have long been in place and coming out wouldn't be a personal event. But I'd hope people know better that it's obviously not the case yet in all the lucky developed nations and even more so elsewhere.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I get what you're saying about its a shame gay people having to build up confidence to announce they're gay and there's still prejudice about it, but why is it made such a big deal of?
If someone I was working with announced they were gay, or a friend told me, or even a family member said they were gay, I'd be like a) wtf do I care and b) wtf has it got to do with me?
It's almost as if it's used as some form of publicity stunt. "I wouldn't be where I am today without being true to myself and being gay" huh? Being gay made you what you are? No, being gay, or straight or bi or transgender is what makes you WHO you are, it doesn't effect your ability to do a job well or be a good friend or make a decent film, or kick a football or jump off a diving board.
For years now the approach to gay people has been constantly changing from 'get him over there the poof' to 'I now announce you husband and husband'. It's now widely accepted that gay people are just the same as anyone else, they have rights, they can marry etc etc.
In some respects, and yes I have seen this, being gay is for some simply an attention seeking label. Look at me, I'm gay, I'm a raving queen! Please. 8-) I once lived with a lad who was obviously gay and he eventually plucked up the courage to tell the rest of the house (student digs) about his sexual orientation. The responce he got wasn't a big group hug but 'we've known for ages mate, no biggy.' And then attentions turned back to the tv.
I honestly think that sometimes putting a label on yourself only makes you stand further apart from the rest if society instead of intergrating.
'The new track from the latest black artist' 'gay artist launches exhibition' 'film star comes out'
Honestly, in this day and age who that matters gives a flying one about your skin colour, orientation, race, country or any other label you try to pin on yourself?
Maybe I should start describing myself as 'just another white straight guy'?
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Short version: You're in a bubble where all the progress finished and nobody can't get married or tell their Christian friends or tell their friends who they spent a long time nervously lying to about being straight. You should very well know that not everyone is so callous about it being an issue or topic. It is an issue and a topic for many and recent change doesn't mean gays didn't grow up with a different picture in mind of public opinions. The laws and universal acceptance aren't there yet and if gays don't say so, I'm not sure why anyone would expect the positive change to continue in places where it hasn't finished like most of the US and most of the world such as the currently newsworthy Russia, India, Uganda, and Nigeria. Rest assured, gay people have given far more thought about how and why to come out than you have.
But I don't think gay people know they can expect their relationships to go unchanged in family or in the workplace. At least, it isn't certain everywhere or for everyone. And it's not legal for gays to marry in most of the US or most of the world. Quite the opposite in places if you've heard about India, Uganda, Nigeria, or Russia just in the last month or two.
And the wide acceptance is rather new. It's within the last few years that the big acceptance has come about, but according to the numbers here, the accepting majority isn't leading by too much of a margin. But just back to the simple fact that it is new, well that says a lot about why it still matters so much to gay people. The vast majority of the people who are old enough to be faced with coming out or being out didn't grow up with it being a frequent topic of acceptance in the media or among acquaintances. It was still taboo (perhaps more in the US, where only one state newly allowed gays to marry 10 years ago). Heck, gays could be removed from juries here over it and its just getting attention this year.
It's great for you that you feel so little about it, to the point where you seem to have more animosity towards others caring about it. But the people coming out aren't the ones covering themselves in the news and tweeting about it. Even when they say it casually, its something the people just spread around. It's still something to most people because it hasn't been a given that someone could be out and not be considering of consequence.
And I sure hope you would understand that if someone does come out to you, there's part of them uncertain if you will have a specific reaction to them. As Ellen Paige said, the omission and hiding wears a person down, and I'm sure for others who have had many conversations with friends where they felt the need to lie feel similarly. You can't blame them for wondering if their friend who they know thinks they've been straight through a number of conversations over the years is going to be upset or shocked or feel distanced by the revelation. Parents especially build up ideas and see their kids maybe even date as if they're heterosexual and then it's out the window. People commonly say that when coming out to parents, "you have to give them time to grieve the person they expected you to be." And yes, the person they expected include a bit of who you're with one day and who you like and maybe even culture you like that you hid before.
Those things can easily be just some of the reasons why it feels like a big deal for most still, but worse still is that many people do have a difficult reaction. Sometimes it's not even an overt opposition to gays, but just a subconscious discomfort with the sense of deceit or with the closeness to someone who has different attractions than assumed.
I guess there's just a whole lot more I could type about this, but it seems like you really aren't that empathetic for why coming out can be so stressful. What if a gay person's boss happens to be one of the many Christians who still says "I don't agree with it, but whatever"? The "agree" part shows some ignorance, but can you trust the "whatever" to mean they'll feel just as much like a buddy as before they knew?
Even perhaps the gayest star Cher famously has disapproved of her now son both when he came out as a lesbian and when he transitioned genders to male. She came around both times, but the reaction was certainly not a positive one either time, especially to gays who thought Cher of all people would accept.
I think it is indeed widely accepted now, but the issue is, there's still a worst case scenario when it comes to family, friends, co-workers, etc. There's still the question of how they really feel about it. And when you're trying really hard to blend in, you can't comfortably be the one talking about the issue to find out if it's okay before coming out. So you take the guess and hope people weren't serious about using "faggot" or whatever they do or say.
Just this week, the polls were released about how the US football players feel about the first out player coming to the league and just under 1 in 5 said they aren't okay with it, 1 in 4 said they're uncomfortable sharing the showers with him, and around a third said their teams have used homophobic language recently. I'd say for anyone in sports looking for an example that it will be fine, they are probably paying a lot of attention to Micheal Sams now because they surely have had the impression that there will indeed be people on their own teams who make the athletic experience worrisome. It shouldn't matter, but it definitely is big news.
And if gays stop saying they're gay, will anyone be trying to person equality legislation? Will Russia and India get better or worse? I don't think the point where it truly doesn't have to be said has been reached at all. It seems like it's just pretty recent that the countries faced started facing their laws to acknowledge gay people exist.
Just do what you want & who you want. It's all good. :x
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
South Korean fans are really cyber bullying Elise Christie for her short track crash in the Olympics? Are you kidding me? No country has had more DQ's than South Korea in each of the last three Olympics. No one skates dirtier than that team. Real shame since the Olympics should be about bringing countries together.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Ok, so I get where you're coming from, about the majority of the world being behind the times as such and it still being very daunting, or even life threatening to come out.
Couple of things you said stuck out for me though, first about someone coming out to long time Christian friends who might not be completely ok with it, plus the list of countries that aren't accepting the hwole gay orientation, the common denominator of course is the thorn in the side of the modern world, and this might sting a bit; religion.
I was born into a christian family, christened and got married and said my vows in a christian church and swore my oath to love and to cherish etc to god, or allah, or whoever else you wanna call him, her, it etc.
But I wouldn't class myself as a deeply religious person. I don't go to church every sunday, tbh, my wedding was my last visit and some may say this is hypocritical of me. The thing is though is that I've seen such suffering and terrible pain in life that I can't honestly believe in some overseeing lord who loves us all. Additionally, I don't need any religion to be a nice person, that's been taught to me by my parents, who, in my humble opinion did an ok job.
The other thing that knocks my faith is the inability of people to simply let others get on with it. The countries you listed are mainly catholic no? What ever happened to love thy neighbour? The thing with religion is it's so open to misinterpretation a lot of people end up using it as an excuse for violence. My god's better than yours, you don't believe in my god therefore I'm allowed to kill you etc. I am exteremly fortunate. In my part of the world I live where prejudice towards gay people is on the decline and the majority of people are accepting of others. There are however plenty of people, some may say the older generations, who find it difficult to accept gay people, or coloured people etc etc. See, I dunno even what to 'call' people, is it coloured? Is it black? Does either cause offence? Forgive my ignorance, but you're either a tosser or not, colour, sexual orientation or any other label people wanna pin on just doesn't compute with me simply because in my mind it doesn't matter. You get good and bad in all walks of life and the colour of your skin or who you fancy or what god you worship means very little to me.
Another aspect is that I know people, again, usually older people who don't like the idea of gay people etc, and to me thats fine. Who am I to tell people what to think? These people I assume are pretty aware of my views, but they don't try and convert me into their way of thinking.
My advice, let people get on with their lives. I find it a shame that many people have to hide away as their society isn't generally as accepting as mine, but for the people in the western world i think they'd find that most people wouldn't bat an eyelid when they finally came out. Plus, if I were gay, which would I prefer in life, a group of mates who only like me because they didn't know I was gay (who aren't worth having as friends are they?) or being true to myself and living my life how I wanted to? If your religion or group of friends doesn't accept you for what you are, are they worth having in your life? I know this question is harder to answer the stronger the relation the person in question has to you, but if it's just friends we're talking about, is it that difficult a choice? I dunno, just putting that one out there.
I've no animosity towards people being honest with themselves and it's not that I don't feel bad for people who are repressed by their socety. But I couldn't give too shakes of a rat's ass if you are gay but what I can't stand is gay people declaring it to the world like it's something special and everyone must stop what they're doing and give a round of applause for it. But as society in my boggy swamp continues to accept gay people I don't see how I have to be constantly ordered that I have to like gay people. I already do.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I appreciate what you've said minigeff. I was raised by Christian parents and went to a Christian school for my first ten school years, but am no longer religious. I certainly don't think it's great to argue with older generations or religious people who aren't accepting because in many ways, it shouldn't have an affect beyond their own families. But I think people do argue because those groups make up a large percentage of the vote and influence the behavior of their descendants. They're the ones who are preventing the actual laws from changing. Their opinions aren't that scary, but their actions are. Once the legal issue is over with in the western countries, there will certainly be less attention needed for that cause.
But for now, there's a number of places where the majority of voter's still pursue new discrimination laws or support existing ones here in the US (it's a very active topic here as the states and the nation are all on their own timelines regarding the issue). The need for gays to be vocal likely isn't as much of a social cause in the western world anymore, so much as a political one. No one will change the laws or think discriminatory laws need to be altered if the people affected don't ask for it (perhaps an obvious factor for this particular minority having to specifically name the trait out loud is that it is one that may not be acknowledgeable or countable if it isn't specifically stated). Most of the world needs more than just laws to change, so they still need the people affected to speak until they aren't singled out anymore. They have to be accounted for wherever they live. Then they'll stop singling themselves out, as well.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Adverts.
Remember good old days when adverts were them things in between programmes on channel 4 and itv? They could also be found in the back pages of your fortnightly subscription or on the side of buses.
Now the damn things are everywhere.
I wake up and get breakie with micro, in between her Peppa pig and Thomas the tank are numerous ads for toys, then a load of junk mail comes through the letter box.
I check the email and delete the spam, then head out to work. The morning commute takes me past several pubs and restaurants who have billboards outside that spout out about the next upcoming event, valentines, Mother's Day, whatever the next commercially invented day is. A learner driver goes past with 'sponsored by' stickers all over its arse.
When I get to work there's more junk mail in my pigeon hole, and the email is full of spam again. I then get a text telling me I'm entitled to £2k compo for that car accident I never had, and a woman calls me to say my phone can be upgraded to an iPhone 5 for only £150.
When I return home it's yet more ads in between shows, so a quick look on YouTube to spend the time laughing at idiots falling off their bikes results in 'skip this ad in 5 seconds' being displayed.
A look through the tv channels ends in me finding the advert channel. "That's right jim, you get the bucket, the mop, the steam cleaner and a philippino maid to do all the work for just $99,999 and 99c."
So I turn to one of my books I'm reading only to notice that in the front and back covers are adverts for books of the same author and publisher.
I give up, is there anywhere I can look these days without an ad springing out at me?!
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
aaaaarrrrrgggghhhh
I think I'll just jump on the band wagon and start advertising with my flatulence....
PAAARP!!! "That fart was brought to you in conjunction with Russel's sprouts, the veg grown in a hedge with a pledge to earn you a wedge!!"
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Now I've never been into book burning, and there are few people more right wing and into a free economy and market forces than I, but this is ludicrous. And immoral compared with say, the NHS, non-clerical, sharp end. and the poor buggers struggling with mortgages.
Football should be banned, immediately.
After all, the building trade in the UK is booming and there's a demand for builders' labourers.
Calm down, microjiff. Here in AJB you are safe from being advertised.
That does not mean that you not are reminded that I am still waiting for that MR cam
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
+ 1.
He gets what a rapidly desperate club is willing to pay...remember six months ago they said he wouldn't get the same contract again - £250,000 a week....to be fair they were right, its now £300,000 a week
Add in the fact he has five sponsorship contracts too, which get him about £500,000 a week...and its not a bad life....certainly explains why his missus hangs round when he's at 'grab-a-granny' night !
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Twenty minutes or so.
It's more or less unheard of here.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Really ? How much are cinema tickets ? Maybe that's how they offset costs ?
example ,big war film on (a bloke film ) its going to be mostly blokes watching it ,then an advert for tampons comes on
ooohhh I must rush out and buy some ,
wait until the bluray and watch it in comfort on my big screen.
suck the last molecule of coke out of it 5 litre tub ,fart and walk out