LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
I hate none of them...but a sense of disappointment began to settle over me when MR came out...and OP and AVTAK both left me in mourning. Best leave it at that
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I hate none of them...but a sense of disappointment began to settle over me when MR came out...and OP and AVTAK both left me in mourning. Best leave it at that
Back in '79 I saw MR, and walked out grieving.
Then FYEO and I felt a bit better.
Then OP & I was like, uh, okaaaaay.
Then AVTAK, and I was like, did they really HAVE to?
Then TLD, and I kinda liked it a little...
Then LTK, and I realized I'd never see a really great Bond movie ever again.
Then Goldeneye, which was like a gift from the gods. Enthusiasm renewed! But 16 years of no great Bond movies surely sucked.
Back in '79 I saw MR, and walked out grieving.
Then FYEO and I felt a bit better.
Then OP & I was like, uh, okaaaaay.
Then AVTAK, and I was like, did they really HAVE to?
Then TLD, and I kinda liked it a little...
Then LTK, and I realized I'd never see a really great Bond movie ever again.
I enjoyed the Daltons more than you did. I was thrilled to have a young, physical Bond, for one thing...and knowing that Dalton was a fan of the books was encouraging as well. Unfortunately, they couldn't completely shake what I considered the gratuitous comedy of the previous era---and Dalton clearly wasn't comfortable with it, which hurt the overall product in my opinion.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I was gonna say NSNA but I don't class it as an official bond film so I left it out.
Me too. And to be honest, I do actually hate NSNA. But as you said, it's not an official EON bond film. So screw it. I prefer to pretend it never existed, and I can't see myself ever watching it again
to be honest, I do actually hate NSNA. But as you said, it's not an official EON bond film. So screw it. I prefer to pretend it never existed, and I can't see myself ever watching it again
I can't believe how many times I watched it just because SC was in it. But every time I came to dislike it a bit more....
The one Bond film I actually hate is A View To A Kill. It is boring, and features a way over-the-hill Roger Moore, in addition to a screeching, uninteresting Bond girl in the form of Tanya Roberts. For me, no matter what I thought the other Bond films, I never found them to be boring. AVTAK is a boring mess and yes, I hate it.
Really interesting thread. I thought I would come out straight away and say I hated AVTAK, but tbh there really isn't a Bond film I hate. Maybe that's why I called myself the biggest Bond fan in the world, til the net was invented and I found this forum! LOL.
Anyway, if I have to I woukd say definitely AVTAK. Reasons:
1. The awful PTS complete with Beach Boys song.
2. Roger Moore looking like Tanya Roberts great grandad.
3. The usually fantastic Chris Walken's totally hammed up villain, Zorin.
4. Too much Americanisation.
Odd, but looking through the film series, I personally find that the more they veered away from Fleming's novels, the worst the films get, and those are the ones I like the least. Consider that the ones always ranked in the top of the series are close adaptations of the novels - OHMSS, FRWL,CR, etc.. It's the same with any genre really. Whenever new works are created to replicate the quality of the originals, it can be a mixed bag of results on many levels. It certainly helps if they can stick in ideas from the originals as much as possible, but if the rest of the script doesn't match the quality of those, you get a lackluster film. Worse, when they try to do emulate the style of Fleming's work without having any of his original ideas to mix in, it usually comes up as pale effort. LTK is a good example. Instead of making a straightforward Bond story of M having Bond go after the villain because he was a direct threat to western security in some regional way, they turned it into a personal vendetta story. The only good scenes were the ones lifted from the LALD and TMWTGG novels.
Remaking YOLT (which was an action film spectacle for spectacles sake and had nothing to do with Bond's character) out of shear creative laziness - TSWLM and MOONRAKER - was just a way of making $$$ out of the Bond label.
They were all about commercialism and had little artistic effort except in the visuals. They threw in as many winking jokes (especially in the Moore vears) to sell the stuff - and it worked. Then they would try and do more serious reboots back to Fleming's character with Dalton and Brosnan and Craig, but would fumble again after the follow up films. I hope they do a good job on the new one. I'm hoping for something on the quality of FRWL or CR. Fleming's stories are gone - so I'm praying they will keep Fleming's character at the center of the effort.
(...) Fleming's stories are gone - so I'm praying they will keep Fleming's character at the center of the effort.
IMHO there are a lot of unused parts of Fleming's novels left. CR and LALD alone have some great moments (for instance the interaction between 007 and Leiter) that haven't been used in the films that I'd like to see.
The film that I don't like (hate is not the right word) is QoS, closely followed by DAD. I don't like QoS because to me it doesn't feel like a Bond film. In my opinion AVTAK is a terrible film but within 10 minutes you'd know you were watching a 007 movie. QoS doesn't have that for me. DAD is the exact opposite. One big homage to 40 years of Bond. I liked the small references like taking the grape in the Cuban clinic but the entire Q scene was a bit too much.
I do not hate any James Bond Films but when I rewatched every single one of them including Never Say Never Again a couple years ago, 4 stood out as not being as good as the others. Those 4 would be:
License to Kill - Two words: Wayne Newton. Four more words: Truck bustin a wheelie
Tomorrow Never Dies - Not very good villain. No memorable scenes other than maybe the precredit sequence and Terri Hatchers bum.
The Man With the Golden Gun - Too much JW on vacation in the middle. Hoky weird scenes with Nick Nack; three nipples, on the beach with the laser and Holly Goodnight (terrible actress)
Quantum of Solace - too many meaningless chase scenes and i dont like chase scenes normally. Horrible Villain. Definately no memorable scenes. Did I say horrible villain. Bond girl ehhh no. Dont even remember the henchmen.
I see Die Another Day on some of this thread and it is straight up my 4th favorite BOND film for sure. Extremely entertaining. Unbelievable pre credit folks. Halle Berry yes mam. Zao beastful henchmen.
I see Die Another Day on some of this thread and it is straight up my 4th favorite BOND film for sure. Extremely entertaining. Unbelievable pre credit folks. Halle Berry yes mam. Zao beastful henchmen.
LOL, I guess we're even; TND is straight up in my top 5. )
There's no movie I hate but DAD comes close. Lame conclusion. Terrible "location" work. Bad acting. Poor casting. Lame villains.
PPK 7.65mmSaratoga Springs NY USAPosts: 1,253MI6 Agent
Diamonds are Forever is the one film in the series I do not really care for. Sean Connery looks really out of shpae phyiscally, Charles Gray is miscast, Wint and Kidd are about as dangerous as a skin rash, and Tom Mackowitz(Spelling?) really over did the humor too much for my taste.
Also Die Another Day is not a real favorite of mine either, for many of the same reasons everyone else has written here already.
I can see from the other posts that the comments in my original post have merit. The films disliked by the other members either were non Fleming stories or stuck by the film series formula because that's what brought in ticket sales, even if artistically they were sub-par. They kept shoe horning in physical humor and bad puns and spectacle at the expense of Fleming's character, turning them into three dimensional cartoons. Even a friend of mine once commented after seeing an over the top stunt in one film that he thought he had seen something similar in an old Looney Toon. A good example is DAD. I started enjoying the precredits sequence up to the over the top mine field chase. I even enjoyed Bond being in prison for a year and worked over, then traded back in a governmental deal, as it has happened in real life to real spies. It wasn't Fleming, but the bit before the chase and the prison and trade parts had the spirit of a Fleming novel about them. The problem was that the producers had still believed that every film had to have spectacular set piece chases with lots of explosions and Brosnan shooting thousands of rounds at armies of men shooting back - without getting a scratch! Of course, millions of people are paying to see this type of action in a BOND movie and expect it. This is my point. A large Jekyll/Hyde divide developed over the series dealing with Fleming's character and the cinema character of Bond. The producers got the public used to seeing explosions and spectacle and a cartoon version of Bond coolly detached through it all with a smirk and a straightening of the tie swagger. That's why when they brought Dalton in to bring the character back to Fleming's ideal, it didn't mesh well - Jekyll is Fleming's complex government spy and blunt instrument; Hyde the producer's creation - a individual that is all action and lust and baudry humor. They tried to balance the two again with the Brosnan films, but the bombast of Mr. Hyde would not die. We then got Craig and CR. This has been their best effort in balancing the two in a while (OHMSS was the last good balance). They still had the large action scequences, but focused on Bond himself and kept Fleming's Dr. Jeykll version at the center of the story. They lost the balance again with QOS. They tried blending a realistic, morality play dealing with Bond's inner demons with a non-stop action film. Instead of continuing the Vesper revenge theme, they should have just made a new story line, or perhaps did the whole revenge part in the pre-credits sequence just to bury it and move on. I think the audience expects to see Bond enjoy himself at times through the story (as he did in the novels). I hope they do in the new film. Unfortunately, from what I can see from the trailer, the plot does not seem to afford Craig to have much levity.
That's why when they brought Dalton in to bring the character back to Fleming's ideal, it didn't mesh well - Jekyll is Fleming's complex government spy and blunt instrument; Hyde the producer's creation - a individual that is all action and lust and baudry humor.
Interesting, just started reading The Spy Who Loved Me novelization by screenwriter Christopher Wood. What a sobering, hard-edged take on what we saw as a movie!!! And I'm only two chapters in...
I do not like LTK very much as one poster said it has a die hard feel to it i like die hard as a film but LTK belongs in that list of films but as i remembered reading the late 80's saw a lot of films like LTK Die Hard and LW films so it is understandable about how this film isnt liked very much but it has its own fans
BIG TAMWrexham, North Wales, UK.Posts: 773MI6 Agent
I don't hate any Bond. It's an ever-evolving series, self-referential in many respects but also adapting with times & cinematic trends. However if I'm pushed to state a film that now disappoints it would be YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, which somewhere down the line seems to have been chosen as the series' representative of Bond excess & ripe for send-up. It therefore makes it difficult for me to watch it without laughing at it, rather than with it. This feels different than, say MOONRAKER. That film's far more on-the-nose downright silly but is so obviously self-mocking it's pretty much immune to outside mimmickry. Same with A VIEW TO A KILL which is a wonderful Bond to watch when drunk with like-minded friends. It lends itself well to inebriated mirth but never loses its charm. Bond's clandestine ring camera & totally unobtrusive sunglasses are particularly priceless after a few bottles.
Tomorrow Never Dies. Brosnan´s preformance is so forced, Johnathan Price is like an spoof of a Bond villain, and there´s even the cartoonish blonde guy henchman. The stunts are horribly integrated in the plot, and frankly unbelievable. Horrible movie.
Goldeneye is a close second. In the PTS they break for the first time in the whole series the Ian Fleming rule: Bond should always do things that are highly improbable, but never impossible. Pierce jumping off the cliff with his motorbike to catch the plane, flying pass it, is utterly impossible, unless you use CGI effects. Plus it has the crappiest introduction of a new James Bond actor ever: "I forgot to knock", hanging upside down, in a toilett. That´s the first time you see Brosnan facing the audience as Bond.
Tomorrow Never Dies. Brosnan´s preformance is so forced, Johnathan Price is like an spoof of a Bond villain, and there´s even the cartoonish blonde guy henchman. The stunts are horribly integrated in the plot, and frankly unbelievable. Horrible movie.
Goldeneye is a close second. In the PTS they break for the first time in the whole series the Ian Fleming rule: Bond should always do things that are highly improbable, but never impossible. Pierce jumping off the cliff with his motorbike to catch the plane, flying pass it, is utterly impossible, unless you use CGI effects. Plus it has the crappiest introduction of a new James Bond actor ever: "I forgot to knock", hanging upside down, in a toilett. That´s the first time you see Brosnan facing the audience as Bond.
oh dear, donk's not gonna like you! can't say i'm to impressed with the GE bashing either. Time for some education.
The skydive-chasing-the-plane stunt was done to a certain extent for real. very little CGI was used for that shot. yes yes, we all know the argument about terminal velocity etc etc, so save your breath. as for the 'forgot to knock' line, i thought it was great! also dear boy, the first time you see brosnan as bond 'facing the audience' would be when you see him in the airduct, he's in silhouette ya see
as for TND, although i'm not a massive fan of it, i think it shows brosnan finding his feet in the role and really becoming bond. i can't see that his performance is forced anywhere, perhaps you could provide a good example of this? JP's stint as elliot carver was, in my mind, a great throwback to the stereo-typical bond villian. the only things i didnt like was the school-kid german phrase of 'nein' used so anyone on the planet could tell stamper was having a tantrum and the helicopter chopping up the market, which took the unfeasibility a bit too far. other than that, its a pretty good film.
Thanks for the education, however, I will never change my mind about both movies, because of the points I mentioned and many others. I was a true fan back when both GE and TND were released, and I still remember the profound disappointment when I first saw them in theatre back in 95 and 97. It´s a matter of taste, of course. I will always dislike them.
Thanks for the education, however, I will never change my mind about both movies, because of the points I mentioned and many others. I was a true fan back when both GE and TND were released, and I still remember the profound disappointment when I first saw them in theatre back in 95 and 97. It´s a matter of taste, of course. I will always dislike them.
Now ya see I was the same about NSNA and MR, but these days I actually quite like them. There's good and bad in everything around you, I try my best to see positive these days, and as an avid bond fan I could never boycott any of the EoN made films.
Thanks for the education, however, I will never change my mind about both movies, because of the points I mentioned and many others. I was a true fan back when both GE and TND were released, and I still remember the profound disappointment when I first saw them in theatre back in 95 and 97. It´s a matter of taste, of course. I will always dislike them.
Now ya see I was the same about NSNA and MR, but these days I actually quite like them. There's good and bad in everything around you, I try my best to see positive these days, and as an avid bond fan I could never boycott any of the EoN made films.
CR'67 however is a load of ****.
I agree with you, positive thinking. Believe me, I tried it with both movies. I saw them a couple of times over the years, I just don´t see the point. Specially TND is IMO the nadir of Bond movies, everything is so disjointed. It´s like when you put all the elements of a recipe by the book, and it all falls apart. Apparently Brosnan was in no speaking terms with the director, so there were problems in the movie.
They found the correct balance again in TWINE, it´s a cool movie. Also DAD, I quite enjoyed that.
DAD I don't like for really one reason; I felt embarssed. It was 40 years of celebrating Bond, there was a lot of Bond merchadise out for sale and even the Queen went and watched the premeir (for the second time- her first was YOLT) and the best we could bring out was a plot rehashed from DAF, really bad CGI, bad acting and too many tributes... and it was the 40th anniversay for goodness sake!!! So, Skyfall looks epic and awesome and I hope it will be those things.
“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. "
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
Thunderbird 2East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,817MI6 Agent
The only film I can say I dislike outright is QoS. That damned editing and and a weak arse story. THank goodness CR wrapped up its own storyline for the most part.
AVTAK is next from the bottom because if feels like a Moore retread of Goldfinger, but simply not as good. However I can still enjoy elements of it, even if Stacey Sutton is a terrible character.
Worst scenes? For me the Sheriff Pepper stuff in both LALD and TMWTGG are very irritating, esp the latter because the remind me of how they ruined an excellent car stunt with that cartoon whistle noise.
As to NSNA, I class that in a category of its own, and "The Bond that is AND isn't!" The also ran. As for The original Casino Royale? - It has radio controlled exploding grouse, milk floats that blow up on contact, and a pill that looks like an asprin, tastes like an asprin but isn't an asprin. Insane, ludicrous and hilariously awful. - Though Orson Welles would have been a fantastic Bond Baddie, - perhaps Drax from the Original novel of Moonraker?
Mini G I forgot to ask this in the Barbarian threads - did you do any work on the Ice Palace miniatures for DAD?
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
Mini G I forgot to ask this in the Barbarian threads - did you do any work on the Ice Palace miniatures for DAD?
You mean barbican right? )
As for the miniatures, no mate I worked on full size ice palace dressing, furniture, champagne flutes and tumblers, DMZ miniatures and parts of Icarus.
Comments
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Then FYEO and I felt a bit better.
Then OP & I was like, uh, okaaaaay.
Then AVTAK, and I was like, did they really HAVE to?
Then TLD, and I kinda liked it a little...
Then LTK, and I realized I'd never see a really great Bond movie ever again.
Then Goldeneye, which was like a gift from the gods. Enthusiasm renewed! But 16 years of no great Bond movies surely sucked.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I enjoyed the Daltons more than you did. I was thrilled to have a young, physical Bond, for one thing...and knowing that Dalton was a fan of the books was encouraging as well. Unfortunately, they couldn't completely shake what I considered the gratuitous comedy of the previous era---and Dalton clearly wasn't comfortable with it, which hurt the overall product in my opinion.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Me too. And to be honest, I do actually hate NSNA. But as you said, it's not an official EON bond film. So screw it. I prefer to pretend it never existed, and I can't see myself ever watching it again
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Anyway, if I have to I woukd say definitely AVTAK. Reasons:
1. The awful PTS complete with Beach Boys song.
2. Roger Moore looking like Tanya Roberts great grandad.
3. The usually fantastic Chris Walken's totally hammed up villain, Zorin.
4. Too much Americanisation.
Remaking YOLT (which was an action film spectacle for spectacles sake and had nothing to do with Bond's character) out of shear creative laziness - TSWLM and MOONRAKER - was just a way of making $$$ out of the Bond label.
They were all about commercialism and had little artistic effort except in the visuals. They threw in as many winking jokes (especially in the Moore vears) to sell the stuff - and it worked. Then they would try and do more serious reboots back to Fleming's character with Dalton and Brosnan and Craig, but would fumble again after the follow up films. I hope they do a good job on the new one. I'm hoping for something on the quality of FRWL or CR. Fleming's stories are gone - so I'm praying they will keep Fleming's character at the center of the effort.
IMHO there are a lot of unused parts of Fleming's novels left. CR and LALD alone have some great moments (for instance the interaction between 007 and Leiter) that haven't been used in the films that I'd like to see.
The film that I don't like (hate is not the right word) is QoS, closely followed by DAD. I don't like QoS because to me it doesn't feel like a Bond film. In my opinion AVTAK is a terrible film but within 10 minutes you'd know you were watching a 007 movie. QoS doesn't have that for me. DAD is the exact opposite. One big homage to 40 years of Bond. I liked the small references like taking the grape in the Cuban clinic but the entire Q scene was a bit too much.
License to Kill - Two words: Wayne Newton. Four more words: Truck bustin a wheelie
Tomorrow Never Dies - Not very good villain. No memorable scenes other than maybe the precredit sequence and Terri Hatchers bum.
The Man With the Golden Gun - Too much JW on vacation in the middle. Hoky weird scenes with Nick Nack; three nipples, on the beach with the laser and Holly Goodnight (terrible actress)
Quantum of Solace - too many meaningless chase scenes and i dont like chase scenes normally. Horrible Villain. Definately no memorable scenes. Did I say horrible villain. Bond girl ehhh no. Dont even remember the henchmen.
I see Die Another Day on some of this thread and it is straight up my 4th favorite BOND film for sure. Extremely entertaining. Unbelievable pre credit folks. Halle Berry yes mam. Zao beastful henchmen.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Also Die Another Day is not a real favorite of mine either, for many of the same reasons everyone else has written here already.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Goldeneye is a close second. In the PTS they break for the first time in the whole series the Ian Fleming rule: Bond should always do things that are highly improbable, but never impossible. Pierce jumping off the cliff with his motorbike to catch the plane, flying pass it, is utterly impossible, unless you use CGI effects. Plus it has the crappiest introduction of a new James Bond actor ever: "I forgot to knock", hanging upside down, in a toilett. That´s the first time you see Brosnan facing the audience as Bond.
oh dear, donk's not gonna like you! can't say i'm to impressed with the GE bashing either. Time for some education.
The skydive-chasing-the-plane stunt was done to a certain extent for real. very little CGI was used for that shot. yes yes, we all know the argument about terminal velocity etc etc, so save your breath. as for the 'forgot to knock' line, i thought it was great! also dear boy, the first time you see brosnan as bond 'facing the audience' would be when you see him in the airduct, he's in silhouette ya see
as for TND, although i'm not a massive fan of it, i think it shows brosnan finding his feet in the role and really becoming bond. i can't see that his performance is forced anywhere, perhaps you could provide a good example of this? JP's stint as elliot carver was, in my mind, a great throwback to the stereo-typical bond villian. the only things i didnt like was the school-kid german phrase of 'nein' used so anyone on the planet could tell stamper was having a tantrum and the helicopter chopping up the market, which took the unfeasibility a bit too far. other than that, its a pretty good film.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Now ya see I was the same about NSNA and MR, but these days I actually quite like them. There's good and bad in everything around you, I try my best to see positive these days, and as an avid bond fan I could never boycott any of the EoN made films.
CR'67 however is a load of ****.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Boy is it ever!
I agree with you, positive thinking. Believe me, I tried it with both movies. I saw them a couple of times over the years, I just don´t see the point. Specially TND is IMO the nadir of Bond movies, everything is so disjointed. It´s like when you put all the elements of a recipe by the book, and it all falls apart. Apparently Brosnan was in no speaking terms with the director, so there were problems in the movie.
They found the correct balance again in TWINE, it´s a cool movie. Also DAD, I quite enjoyed that.
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
AVTAK is next from the bottom because if feels like a Moore retread of Goldfinger, but simply not as good. However I can still enjoy elements of it, even if Stacey Sutton is a terrible character.
Worst scenes? For me the Sheriff Pepper stuff in both LALD and TMWTGG are very irritating, esp the latter because the remind me of how they ruined an excellent car stunt with that cartoon whistle noise.
As to NSNA, I class that in a category of its own, and "The Bond that is AND isn't!" The also ran. As for The original Casino Royale? - It has radio controlled exploding grouse, milk floats that blow up on contact, and a pill that looks like an asprin, tastes like an asprin but isn't an asprin. Insane, ludicrous and hilariously awful. - Though Orson Welles would have been a fantastic Bond Baddie, - perhaps Drax from the Original novel of Moonraker?
Mini G I forgot to ask this in the Barbarian threads - did you do any work on the Ice Palace miniatures for DAD?
You mean barbican right?
As for the miniatures, no mate I worked on full size ice palace dressing, furniture, champagne flutes and tumblers, DMZ miniatures and parts of Icarus.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org