its just LULU I hate her voice, even on my Bond album in my car I always skip that track, even A-HA s tune on TLD is better
and I hate them ,(not personally its an age thing)
Really ? You hare a~ah ? What age are you ? I thought you would have been around their age group...I like them.
now, you mention it Morten Harket is 2 months older than me ,its a boy band thing ,not my thing more a motown man
By the way, did I tell you, I was "Mad"?
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
now, you mention it Morten Harket is 2 months older than me ,its a boy band thing ,not my thing more a motown man
Thought you would be around that age...and hardly a boy-band anymore ) although I did go to a gig of theirs at the height of their fame...and bloody good it was too
I think it's rather a funky piece & Lulu belts it out with great gusto. What's not to like? Is it seen as a bit of a come down after LIVE & LET DIE? I think it's better than A VIEW TO A KILL which seems to get heaped with plaudits.
Hello Big Tam, I will say it's probably my least fave, but I think I can come up with some good specific reasons.
It is way too literal lyrics wise. Some Bond songs tell a specific story to set up the movie--Goldfinger, we learn a lot about the villain, but in that beautiful, brassy powerful way and the lyrics are more dark, seductive, suggestive than literal. It's very heavy on the way gold lures you in and warns of specific danger to women, "....a golden girl knows when he's kissed her, it's the kiss of death from Mr. Goldfinger..." Those are strong lyrics which stand on their own, and also give understanding to what we're going to see, and symbolize what it's about, gold, danger, death, trapped, pulled in.
Man With Golden Gun by contrast sounds like the classified ads in Hitman Times, "A million dollars a shot" "His gun's for hire" etc. And that title in the lyrics doesn't sound cool--nearly all Bond films are pretty clever and creative in the way they slip the title into that opening music, but Golden Gun just didn't work for me.
Imagine "Goldfinger....he wants to rob Ft. Knox...gonna spray some nerve gas today-ayay" Would not be the same would it? I also found that the best Bond themes have a steady catchy rhythm whether the music is up tempo or slow lush and stately. Golden Gun fiddles with a 70s rock sound then slows to a crawl, speeds up again, annoying.
Other types of Bond songs are way more symbolic with lyrics which are fun to figure out. Sir Paul McC nailed it for Live and Let Die with the innocent youth that became a hardened killer idea--"When you were young and your heart was an open book...so live and let DIEEEE!" Makes one think of Bond a young man who was destined to have a job to do, do it well, give the other fella hell. It's a great work because it tells you about Bond and what he is--loss of innocence now licensed to kill. And it's plain old great rock n roll--another test for Bond songs, does it make sense, is it a great song, if you knew nothing about oo7, and you just heard it randomly on the radio? Bond songs are very tricky and catchy that way.
Again best Bond themes play around with how much story to tell, or whether to tell more about the big themes of Bond's life, death lurks, danger, excitement, thrill, seduction, with women who want him, know he's dangerous, don't care, all sorts of ideas. Golden Gun didn't have that content, style down at all IMHO. And Lulu was a fine singer, listen to her on To Sir With Love, still a strong, slow, 1960s rock ballad that really shows off her voice and sounds fantastic after all these years. Certainly she was the right singer, perhaps just the wrong song for her.
Regards, Felix, Leiter Cat
Excellent analysis! -{ And I completely agree about Lulu - her rendition of To Sir With Love, with its touching and heart-felt lyrics, made for a beautiful and memorable title song. The Man With The Golden Gun - not so much.
"Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
Thunderbird 2East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,816MI6 Agent
TMWTGG (the song) makes me smile cause it has a slight hippy/dippy quality about it. It refects the timeframe of the film as much as it tries to talk about Scaramanga as a character. Certainly a contrast to Dame Shirley's Goldfinger, yet both songs are about the nature of the villain. Its unusual in its style, but as others have noted Lulu puts her all into it. To me that in itself puts it on the same level as the efforts by Matt Munroe, Tom Jones, Nancy Sinatra, The Wings, Duran Duran and A-ha.
The only Bond song I can't listen to (I include CR-67 and NSNA here,) is Another Way To Die from QoS. Although I have gained some appreciation for the film itself thanks to slow play on my DVD player, I can't stand that song! Its bombastic, crass, uneven and lacks subtlety or style. Not to mention Jack White looks worryingly unwell in the video.
- Its funny, cause I have listened to both White and Alicia Keys singing other songs as soloists and with other performers, and they sound great, they are good at what they do! That particular song though just does not work.
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
Its funny, cause I have listened to both White and Alicia Keys singing other songs as soloists and with other performers, and they sound great, they are good at what they do!
Precisely - that's why the song is such a disappointment, although I don't dislike it quite as much as I did when I first heard it.
Art is in the beholder's eye and ear. Being able to paint and sculpt myself and working professionally as an artist, I personally have never seen how anyone can like modern art. If someone offered me a Picasso worth millions, I'd take it, but then sell it so I could use some of it to buy an original Sargent or Renoir.
I enjoy most of the Bond theme music. In the case of TWTGG, I dislike it for the reasons given in Felix the Leitercat's post. Also, I know Bond's job involves killing and death, but using adjectives and adverbs like shoot, kill, die, etc. as much as possible in the lyrics just smacks of lazy writing.
This goes back to the EON blueprint. It was set in stone and one of the commandments was that the title song had to have lyrics, because GF went boffo in the charts. Barry did OHMSS - which I put second after GF in my list - but the film didn't do as well so no more instrumentals only. I know..that had nothing to do with the box office, but they lumped it in as another reason.
TMWTGG should have been done like OHMSS or FRWL. The lyrics over the closing credits should have been sufficient if they wanted to keep that version (at least one could leave the theater and avoid them). It's even my least favorite Barry melody. I agree with Barry - it doesn't work because he was trying to work with those awful lyrics.
I know many dislike You Know My Name and SF, but I like both because they are lyrically creative. Some dislike YKMN because it's a driving rock piece (well so was LALD). I thought it was a good choice for the reboot because it was an in your face, aggressive piece that covered the themes in the story, gambling, Bond's job (winning, odds, death, trust, betrayal, detached emotion). Skyfall is haunting and covers Bond's evolution from childhood trauma to his damaged adulthood along with his relationship with M and his job ("You may have my number, you can take my name, but you'll never have my heart..").
TMWTGG is just pompous. Even Bassey could not have saved it.
John Barry himself is on record (pun not intended) as disliking TMWTGG and blaming it on the short time he was given to come up with the movie's score. Normally, he'd compose other pieces to use within the film (eg, for OHMSS he wrote the title theme and "We Have All The Time In The World" which turn up in various forms on the soundtrack, as well as "Try", "Do You Know How Christmas Trees Are Grown?" and "Who Will Buy My Yesterdays"- a great melody only partially heard at the time) but here he relies on variations of the main theme almost exclusively, and given that it's not one of his most inspired melodies it makes for a disappointing listen.
Pomposity isn't necessarily a drawback to a great Bond theme ("Nobody Does It Better"). Rock pieces aren't inappropriate either; YKMN works splendidly both as a song and within the CR score.
In my view the main problems with James Bond songs have occurred when executive meddling takes place- eg Arnold not being allowed to use his planned themes for the main title song because someone insists that Madonna or Sheryl Crow should both write and sing them!
In my view the main problems with James Bond songs have occurred when executive meddling takes place- eg Arnold not being allowed to use his planned themes for the main title song because someone insists that Madonna or Sheryl Crow should both write and sing them!
Point well-taken. For example, it was a big mistake not to use "Surrender" as the title theme for TND. Perhaps not the most egregious mistake of all, but a mistake nevertheless.
In my view the main problems with James Bond songs have occurred when executive meddling takes place- eg Arnold not being allowed to use his planned themes for the main title song because someone insists that Madonna or Sheryl Crow should both write and sing them!
Point well-taken. For example, it was a big mistake not to use "Surrender" as the title theme for TND. Perhaps not the most egregious mistake of all, but a mistake nevertheless.
+1, Blackleiter...+1! When I heard Lang belt that out over the closing credits I was dumbfounded. Seriously? They didn't use that for the opening???
Not only did it have Barry's signature wahwah Bond horns through it, we get Lang's sulty voice and spirited performance as opposed to Crowe's weaker voice and lackluster execution. To be fair, I think she is a good musician for what she produces, but in this case we got a glass of blended scotch instead of an aged single malt.
Yes, "Surrender" SHOULD have been the main title song. Arnold used it as the basis of his score, and the suits insisted the Sheryl Crow effort be used. Record company politics.
Preferred Alice Cooper's TMWTGG title song. So much cooler. However I don't mind Lulu's version in comparison to All Time High which I find pretty cringey.
Preferred Alice Cooper's TMWTGG title song. So much cooler. However I don't mind Lulu's version in comparison to All Time High which I find pretty cringey.
I think All Time High is at the very bottom of my list of Bond theme songs.
I think the lyrics clunk very heavy. The tune is sleazy.
It's not really a classy tune. I know that's an opinion only, I can't justify it very well, but it simply lacks sophistication, it's a duff piece of throwaway music, made tortuous by a wailing singer.
Am I alone in liking TMWTGG? )
I think its jazzy and groovy and quite upbeat which is in keeping with the tone of the film itself. And the lyrics are actually quite fun and clever. {:)
Seriously though, I think having a title song that fits well is important as it all contributes to having a film that has a clear and distinct direction/style and knows where it is going. All Time High I quite like because it fits well with Octopussy in being a laid back/lazy Sunday Afternoon type song which isn't to intense (like the film) as oppose to say Moonraker which is an elongated, rather simplistic ballad compared to a very cartoonish and frantic nature of the film.
I've never ranked my Bond themes by order of preference, but I know that TMWTGG would not come last, and likely wouldn't even come in the bottom quarter. I consider All Time High and Die Another Day considerably worse, just off the top of my head and even prefer TMWTGG to QoS.
I actually like TMWGG by Lulu. Not my favorite though but much much better than Crow and TND. That's my least favorite. I also like AVTAK. My favorite though is You know my name followed very closely by OHMSS and TLD.
TMWTGG is a perfectly acceptable Bond song. Not the best by a long shot but at least it even sounds like a Bond song. Others, like DAD, don't even sound like songs...
TMWTGG is fine for me. Not as good as others but head and shoulders above AWTD and DAD.
Barry's orchestral score based on the main theme is a nice piece of work in my opinion. I really do miss incidental music based on the title track. I do wish they would bring it back..
When I was a Bond n00b, I thought Emiliana Torrini did the theme for TMWTGG, and I found Lulu's underwhelming when I found out she actually did the theme
Anyway I like the TMWTGG song, lyrics and score, the theme song is top 10 easily. Like all Barry scores, it suits the film well. The whistle during the stunt while in hindsight was a poor decision it matched the film's seriousness (that is, none).
The Alice Cooper song is great as well but doesn't suit the film. If TMWTGG was a serious film it would've worked
Comments
now, you mention it Morten Harket is 2 months older than me ,its a boy band thing ,not my thing more a motown man
Thought you would be around that age...and hardly a boy-band anymore
Excellent analysis! -{ And I completely agree about Lulu - her rendition of To Sir With Love, with its touching and heart-felt lyrics, made for a beautiful and memorable title song. The Man With The Golden Gun - not so much.
The only Bond song I can't listen to (I include CR-67 and NSNA here,) is Another Way To Die from QoS. Although I have gained some appreciation for the film itself thanks to slow play on my DVD player, I can't stand that song! Its bombastic, crass, uneven and lacks subtlety or style. Not to mention Jack White looks worryingly unwell in the video.
- Its funny, cause I have listened to both White and Alicia Keys singing other songs as soloists and with other performers, and they sound great, they are good at what they do! That particular song though just does not work.
Precisely - that's why the song is such a disappointment, although I don't dislike it quite as much as I did when I first heard it.
I enjoy most of the Bond theme music. In the case of TWTGG, I dislike it for the reasons given in Felix the Leitercat's post. Also, I know Bond's job involves killing and death, but using adjectives and adverbs like shoot, kill, die, etc. as much as possible in the lyrics just smacks of lazy writing.
This goes back to the EON blueprint. It was set in stone and one of the commandments was that the title song had to have lyrics, because GF went boffo in the charts. Barry did OHMSS - which I put second after GF in my list - but the film didn't do as well so no more instrumentals only. I know..that had nothing to do with the box office, but they lumped it in as another reason.
TMWTGG should have been done like OHMSS or FRWL. The lyrics over the closing credits should have been sufficient if they wanted to keep that version (at least one could leave the theater and avoid them). It's even my least favorite Barry melody. I agree with Barry - it doesn't work because he was trying to work with those awful lyrics.
I know many dislike You Know My Name and SF, but I like both because they are lyrically creative. Some dislike YKMN because it's a driving rock piece (well so was LALD). I thought it was a good choice for the reboot because it was an in your face, aggressive piece that covered the themes in the story, gambling, Bond's job (winning, odds, death, trust, betrayal, detached emotion). Skyfall is haunting and covers Bond's evolution from childhood trauma to his damaged adulthood along with his relationship with M and his job ("You may have my number, you can take my name, but you'll never have my heart..").
TMWTGG is just pompous. Even Bassey could not have saved it.
" I don't listen to hip hop!"
Pomposity isn't necessarily a drawback to a great Bond theme ("Nobody Does It Better"). Rock pieces aren't inappropriate either; YKMN works splendidly both as a song and within the CR score.
In my view the main problems with James Bond songs have occurred when executive meddling takes place- eg Arnold not being allowed to use his planned themes for the main title song because someone insists that Madonna or Sheryl Crow should both write and sing them!
Point well-taken. For example, it was a big mistake not to use "Surrender" as the title theme for TND. Perhaps not the most egregious mistake of all, but a mistake nevertheless.
+1, Blackleiter...+1! When I heard Lang belt that out over the closing credits I was dumbfounded. Seriously? They didn't use that for the opening???
Not only did it have Barry's signature wahwah Bond horns through it, we get Lang's sulty voice and spirited performance as opposed to Crowe's weaker voice and lackluster execution. To be fair, I think she is a good musician for what she produces, but in this case we got a glass of blended scotch instead of an aged single malt.
theme to TMWTGG too bad.
I like the instrumental version of the theme that plays at various points throughout TMWTGG.
I think All Time High is at the very bottom of my list of Bond theme songs.
It's not really a classy tune. I know that's an opinion only, I can't justify it very well, but it simply lacks sophistication, it's a duff piece of throwaway music, made tortuous by a wailing singer.
I think its jazzy and groovy and quite upbeat which is in keeping with the tone of the film itself. And the lyrics are actually quite fun and clever. {:)
Seriously though, I think having a title song that fits well is important as it all contributes to having a film that has a clear and distinct direction/style and knows where it is going. All Time High I quite like because it fits well with Octopussy in being a laid back/lazy Sunday Afternoon type song which isn't to intense (like the film) as oppose to say Moonraker which is an elongated, rather simplistic ballad compared to a very cartoonish and frantic nature of the film.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg7i0goY_sg
Not the original, but a suggestion that was never taken up.
Same. I would dislike it more if I could remember it. So that makes my least-liked song is... that dreadful Die Another Day...
Barry's orchestral score based on the main theme is a nice piece of work in my opinion. I really do miss incidental music based on the title track. I do wish they would bring it back..
I agree. Sadly, I fear there are too many professional egos involved for it to happen...
I don't even know who Torrini is but here's her version which is better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMnrVegs6Kk
Anyway I like the TMWTGG song, lyrics and score, the theme song is top 10 easily. Like all Barry scores, it suits the film well. The whistle during the stunt while in hindsight was a poor decision it matched the film's seriousness (that is, none).
The Alice Cooper song is great as well but doesn't suit the film. If TMWTGG was a serious film it would've worked
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!