Regarding this whole scene, I think we're starting to enter into "ultra-nitpick" territory. I personally think Bond would carry large amounts of cash on him simply because he at least seems to do so with regularity as per Ian Fleming, but who knows, maybe he didn't look at the number on the bill he tipped the doorman with. )
I think we may have been "ultra-nitpicking" for some time )
I don't think he would as large ammounts of cash could draw too much (unwanted) attention his way - but we could always debate just how much cash constitutes "large ammounts" ? )
When they were tussling, I thought it was REALLY heavily implied although never directly said that if he won the fight, he would rape her.
Probably...but you can't use that (as you said) for feeling sorry for her character throughout the film, as this takes place towards the end of the movie. And you did say she WAS raped...not implied rape... but I'm back in "nit-pick" territory
To quote from Cool Hand Luke, "what we have here is a failure to communicate". What I meant was that yes, I agree that Mitchell was the obvious backup plan (something I've no problem with), but when things went awry, there had to be someone more than Mitchell, then. In other words, a Plan C, if we count on Mr. White escaping with help.
Yes...I meant that Mitchell was Plan B...with probable help outside to aid in White's escape - hence M doing a runner to get to safety as quick as she could...Mitchell used himself as 'bait' in the chase...to get Bond away from the scene so White could escape...or maybe Mitchell just had a car outside that he placed there for White to drive himself to safety ?
I'm sure your question will bring up a myriad of different responses as all Bond fans have somewhat differing opinions. Some really like QoS, some think it is terrible. I personally consider it a middling Bond film. As such, I do think it is a bit of a dissapointment after the masterpiece that was Casino Royale. A couple of reasons which I think contribute towards this:
- the script is weak. Very little plot, the whole film feels like an extended denouement to Casino Royale. CR had the great advantage of being based on a great Fleming novel, while QoS was not, and the development of the screenplay was also interfered with by the writers strike.
- the style of shooting and editing lacked a Bond feel in my opinion. The shaky, fast-cut style might work in a Bourne film, but Bond should stand apart. I thought the action scenes in CR felt Bondian in the way that they were shot and cut. QoS didn't. The one sequence that I did really love was the pre-titles car chase. I thought this style worked in this case, due to the particularly brutal nature of the car chase.
- I never felt like the main characters were developed enough. I never really cared for Camille, and her relationship with Bond didn't really go anywhere. Also, Greene was not developed enough for me to take him seriously as a villain.
- Some dodgy effects in the freefall sequence. To be honest, these almost rival the wind-surfing sequence in DAD for looking fake. Compare to the great freefall sequence in MR. Also that whole airborne action sequence was weak in my opinion.
These are a few of my reasons for considering QoS weak in comparison to Casino Royale. It has strengths as well. I like the general look of the film in terms of the cinematography and colour grading. I think the score was very good. Craig cemented his status as a great Bond in my opinion. I hope SkyFall learns from QoS' mistakes and we return to the greatness of Casino Royale this year.
When I watched Casino Royale, it was as if I was reading Fleming's book. If you never read it, I suggest you do. You will be amazed At how closely the movie follows the book. Except of course they didn't play Texas Holdem in the book. Congradulations to the entire staff on C.R. :007)
I agree with a lot on this thread. On the whole I like the film (didn't at first), but it just doesn't have the magic of CR.
From watching the bonus footage etc, its clear they went to great lengths to make the movie great (specially DC with the stunts), but it was bit overkill on the action front IMO. My main gripe is that the style of shooting means you dont have enough perspective on the chase / acton sequences. For example, some longer panning shots (think TSWLM Esprit chase) would have been great at the start. Same goes with the plane scene, there was some great low flying in the DC-3 but you dont get enough perpective to appreciate this.
Parts I liked:
-Boat chase, raming the speed boat was very Daniel Craig.
-"We're teachers on sabatical" line from DC.
-Knife fight scene in hotel Dessalines
-Opera Scene
Didn't like:
- Giant iPad table of M's.
-"Take a deep breath, you only got one shot, make it count"
- Greene was very weak ( I think even Carter from TND was tougher) haha.
-Camera / editing work.
-Theme Music
-Swinging around on ropes / CGI in Sienna gallery
- Giant iPad table of M's.
-"Take a deep breath, you only got one shot, make it count"
- Greene was very weak ( I think even Carter from TND was tougher) haha.
-Camera / editing work.
-Theme Music
-Swinging around on ropes / CGI in Sienna gallery
Welcome Matt
Well I agree with all the above (though didn't mind the "Take a breath" line
The swinging around and giant iPad table was totally over the top and out of place
On one hand, it was pretty entertaining, I enjoyed many of the action sequences, craig's performance, the lead bond girl was ok, and the opera scene was brilliant.
But on the other hand, the story development for me was just too vague, too rapid, not enough information given.... also, this is the least bond-like film for me and at times felt more like a bourne film.... I thought the main villain was bad, his performance was fine, but he was just an unmemorable character....
And as Sir Miles already knows, I cannot stand the theme song.... but I've already stated that before so shall not go into it. But to be fair, I never judge a film by it's theme song anyway.
So from what I've said, QOS has many points for and against.... probably making it rank somewhere in the middle / below the half-way point.
I must say I was disappointed when I first saw it, especially given the pre-title scene (which seemed to imply the film would carry on with the style of CR. And Siena is beautiful, isn't it!). Having said that, it then grew on me each time I watched it - whilst I wouldn't say it was one of my favourites, it's certainly a lot better than a number of others.
I've learned to like some of the subtlities of the film - as one person has mentioned, the scar on Camille's back with no explanation - and I think the TF suits are some of the best I've seen (not so keen on the new spray-on suits for Skyfall though). The ending has also grown on me, I like the nonchalent dropping of Vesper's necklace as if to simply say "job done" - contrary to what some say, I see this as emphasising the fact that her betrayal put an end to Bond's feelings for her, rather than the Kazan scene being him getting revenge for her death.
I do feel it really underperformed it's potential though. There are a number of things that let it down - the CGI scenes were quite embarrassing, the desert scene was annoying, shame Mathis had to be killed off, Camille was a weak character (and slightly unconvincing). After such a good film as CR was (we're all agreed on that, right?!) and with such strong characters in it - I'm sure the combination of CR being written by IF and QoS being caught up in the strike is the main reason - this seemed a bit limp and flat in comparrison and I think that's why a lot of people say it's no good. Maybe it would have fared a bit better had it not been a follow on?
From what I have seen and heard of Skyfall, QoS was hopefully just a temporary blip... We'll know in a month! Hope it's been worth the wait!
I must say I was disappointed when I first saw it, especially given the pre-title scene (which seemed to imply the film would carry on with the style of CR. And Siena is beautiful, isn't it!). Having said that, it then grew on me each time I watched it - whilst I wouldn't say it was one of my favourites, it's certainly a lot better than a number of others.
I've learned to like some of the subtlities of the film - as one person has mentioned, the scar on Camille's back with no explanation - and I think the TF suits are some of the best I've seen (not so keen on the new spray-on suits for Skyfall though). The ending has also grown on me, I like the nonchalent dropping of Vesper's necklace as if to simply say "job done" - contrary to what some say, I see this as emphasising the fact that her betrayal put an end to Bond's feelings for her, rather than the Kazan scene being him getting revenge for her death.
I do feel it really underperformed it's potential though. There are a number of things that let it down - the CGI scenes were quite embarrassing, the desert scene was annoying, shame Mathis had to be killed off, Camille was a weak character (and slightly unconvincing). After such a good film as CR was (we're all agreed on that, right?!) and with such strong characters in it - I'm sure the combination of CR being written by IF and QoS being caught up in the strike is the main reason - this seemed a bit limp and flat in comparrison and I think that's why a lot of people say it's no good. Maybe it would have fared a bit better had it not been a follow on?
From what I have seen and heard of Skyfall, QoS was hopefully just a temporary blip... We'll know in a month! Hope it's been worth the wait!
Hi welcome Mr Beech. -{
Your views seem to match mine, I hated QOS when it first came out ( Or escaped )
But I've softened to it over the years. Mainly because with Skyfall they seem to of corrected
most of the problems I had with QOS.
And I thought I was the Only one who thought the new suits where far too tight. )
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
IMO, QoS is the worst Bond movie of all-time. The list of things I hated is long, but here are a few, some of which have already been mentioned.
The editing is nauseating.
The Field’s oil scene is almost laughable, a weak attempt to conjure up thoughts of GF, except GF is 100 times better.
The opera house scene which starts out so promising and is filmed beautifully completely ruined by an unnecessary shootout
Much like cartoon characters, Bond and Camille fall thousands of feet from an airplane with the parachute opening just before impact resulting in no apparent injuries.
Camille, a very forgettable female lead.
The attempted rape of the maid/housekeeper.
The score and opening song are unremarkable.
The plot is silly and attempts to have a “environmental” twist to it.
Bond’s mumbling
Way too much M. M’s relationship with Brosnan was much better.
QoS is the only Bond film I have not purchased a DVD copy of so that I can watch it again, I simply don’t want to, far better Bond movies to watch and enjoy.
The Field’s oil scene is almost laughable, a weak attempt to conjure up thoughts of GF, except GF is 100 times better.
Not to be contentious, but drowning in oil is a bit more believable than 'skin suffocation'.
QoS is the only Bond film I have not purchased a DVD copy of so that I can watch it again, I simply don’t want to, far better Bond movies to watch and enjoy.
Seriously? I'm not overly fond of Craig in the role, but even I bought that one- are you really saying that MR is better than QoS??
The Field’s oil scene is almost laughable, a weak attempt to conjure up thoughts of GF, except GF is 100 times better.
Not to be contentious, but drowning in oil is a bit more believable than 'skin suffocation'.
QoS is the only Bond film I have not purchased a DVD copy of so that I can watch it again, I simply don’t want to, far better Bond movies to watch and enjoy.
Seriously? I'm not overly fond of Craig in the role, but even I bought that one- are you really saying that MR is better than QoS??
MR would be slightly higher rated than QoS for me because at least some of the time during MR I had a smile on my face. It should be noted that both MR and QoS had main characters falling from the sky and not showing any sign of injury.
I've listened to someone on YouTube who feels like Quantum of Solace has a very weak first and second act in the beginning, which were kind of boring, chase sequences, (where the plot is seemingly NOT there, at least not yet) and then he feels like the third act was where the film really started to take off once everything was revealed. He fully admits that the third act is not the greatest third act ever made, but he feels like it's interesting to have a strong third act; and for the first two acts to be incredibly weak.
But of course, that's his opinion. Obviously. But personally I don't have any opinion of Quantum of Solace that hasn't been stated a million times before. Although I will say that, even though I skipped Quantum of Solace in the theater, due to hearing negative reviews from movie critics on TV. And even though I was dreading, picking up Quantum of Solace on DVD, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Because I had lowered my expectations and I had believed I was going to be watching an absolutely terrible, horrible, GOD AWFUL, piece of crap of a freaking movie, but in the end it wasn't THAT BAD because I had immensely lowered my expectations going into the damn thing.
And it's always great; going into a movie with drastically lowered expectations, so you simply won't be disappointed because you weren't expecting much from it.
"Goodbye, my son. Our hopes and dreams travel with you." Jor-El ~ Man of Steel (2013)
I was dreading, picking up Quantum of Solace on DVD, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Because I had lowered my expectations and I had believed I was going to be watching an absolutely terrible, horrible, GOD AWFUL, piece of crap of a freaking movie, but in the end it wasn't THAT BAD because I had immensely lowered my expectations going into the damn thing.
If the best we can say is 'not that bad' I think it tells it's own story.
Yes, it's like saying that the theatrical toy commercials that Joel Schumacher made starring Val Kilmer, George Clooney, and a character who is supposedly Batman are not that bad.
Say what you want about Tim Burton's "Batman" films, at least they were films. They were not good films because of Peter Guber, Jon Peters and Tim Burton...And because of the writer's strike but they're ABSOLUTELY NOT colorful toy commercials that blind you with flashing lights and beat you over the head with a plastic hammer while shouting "BATMAN" like the Joel Schumacher "pictures" do.
"Goodbye, my son. Our hopes and dreams travel with you." Jor-El ~ Man of Steel (2013)
If the best we can say is 'not that bad' I think it tells it's own story.
Yep, that pretty much sums it up.
But it's not a write off. The one real highlight is the opera scenes, worthy of any Bond film. I also enjoy the hotel scenes and Bond's confrontation with Vesper's boyfriend.
My biggest issues with the film are the editing and tasteless scenes. I really dislike the fast cut editing technique. It's difficult to work out what's happening, you cannot savour the action and enjoy it. I particularly dislike the attempted rape scene, and also Bond dumping Mathis' body into a skip and stealing his money for good measure, unworthy of any Bond film.
Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
I don't understand the hostility towards Mathis' death. What should have Bond done? Leave his body on the street? Leave the cash for someone else to steal? The guy is dead and it is just a body, not Mathis anymore. Bond has to get moving.
I don't understand the hostility towards Mathis' death. What should have Bond done? Leave his body on the street? Leave the cash for someone else to steal? The guy is dead and it is just a body, not Mathis anymore. Bond has to get moving.
Yeah I don't think he had much choice considering he was a wanted man in a hurry etc, also reflects a little of the cold ruthlessness of Flemming's Bond
Well that's a good question, but Bond shouldn't really be put in that position. I mean, it's like showing him taking a dump in the jungle, then saying, 'Well, what should he do? Seek out a public lavatory? Hold it in until the final scene, when he's about to bed some beauty?' There are situations Bond shouldn't be placed in, in his celluloid universe.
Now, I could imagine such a scene in Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy where I would indeed applaud the subtext of such a scene (placing Mathis in a dumper, not taking a dump in a jungle), that the 'hero' is a man who eschews sentimentality or feelings and must keep on the move in a dirty, treacherous world... But in a Bond film, one where a lot of it isn't really that intelligent or plausible, nah....
Doesn't help that even now fans can't decide whether Mathis was indeed a traiter, or whether his name was a codename or cover name... jeez.
Me too! I thought I was responding to someone's metaphor about something... Someone who put their foot in their mouth when they meant eat their words. Must have been on another thread.
The simple fact is Bond die hards who grew up with Connery, Moore and Bronson who want gadgets, one liners, Bond bedding women every two minutes didn't want to see Bond as brutal killing machine gettin down and dirty who was mourning over a girl plus a Villian who wasn't a OTT trying to blow up the world. I think its flawed (the editing during the fight scenes is a little crazy) but Craig gives the best Bond performance is this film and the opening twenty minutes are excellent and the opera house scene and ending scene in the desert are great. Its not on par with Casino Royale or Skyfall but its by no means a disaster may on here make out. Its a good Bond film.
Agree. The more I watch QoS the more I love it. License To Kill is my favourite film, and QoS is very close to Dalton's classic, which is the way I like my Bond
"Thank you very much. I was just out walking my RAT and seem to have lost my way... "
Comments
I think we may have been "ultra-nitpicking" for some time
I don't think he would as large ammounts of cash could draw too much (unwanted) attention his way - but we could always debate just how much cash constitutes "large ammounts" ?
Probably...but you can't use that (as you said) for feeling sorry for her character throughout the film, as this takes place towards the end of the movie. And you did say she WAS raped...not implied rape... but I'm back in "nit-pick" territory
Yes...I meant that Mitchell was Plan B...with probable help outside to aid in White's escape - hence M doing a runner to get to safety as quick as she could...Mitchell used himself as 'bait' in the chase...to get Bond away from the scene so White could escape...or maybe Mitchell just had a car outside that he placed there for White to drive himself to safety ?
When I watched Casino Royale, it was as if I was reading Fleming's book. If you never read it, I suggest you do. You will be amazed At how closely the movie follows the book. Except of course they didn't play Texas Holdem in the book. Congradulations to the entire staff on C.R. :007)
I agree with a lot on this thread. On the whole I like the film (didn't at first), but it just doesn't have the magic of CR.
From watching the bonus footage etc, its clear they went to great lengths to make the movie great (specially DC with the stunts), but it was bit overkill on the action front IMO. My main gripe is that the style of shooting means you dont have enough perspective on the chase / acton sequences. For example, some longer panning shots (think TSWLM Esprit chase) would have been great at the start. Same goes with the plane scene, there was some great low flying in the DC-3 but you dont get enough perpective to appreciate this.
Parts I liked:
-Boat chase, raming the speed boat was very Daniel Craig.
-"We're teachers on sabatical" line from DC.
-Knife fight scene in hotel Dessalines
-Opera Scene
Didn't like:
- Giant iPad table of M's.
-"Take a deep breath, you only got one shot, make it count"
- Greene was very weak ( I think even Carter from TND was tougher) haha.
-Camera / editing work.
-Theme Music
-Swinging around on ropes / CGI in Sienna gallery
Welcome Matt
Well I agree with all the above (though didn't mind the "Take a breath" line
The swinging around and giant iPad table was totally over the top and out of place
On one hand, it was pretty entertaining, I enjoyed many of the action sequences, craig's performance, the lead bond girl was ok, and the opera scene was brilliant.
But on the other hand, the story development for me was just too vague, too rapid, not enough information given.... also, this is the least bond-like film for me and at times felt more like a bourne film.... I thought the main villain was bad, his performance was fine, but he was just an unmemorable character....
And as Sir Miles already knows, I cannot stand the theme song.... but I've already stated that before so shall not go into it. But to be fair, I never judge a film by it's theme song anyway.
So from what I've said, QOS has many points for and against.... probably making it rank somewhere in the middle / below the half-way point.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I've learned to like some of the subtlities of the film - as one person has mentioned, the scar on Camille's back with no explanation - and I think the TF suits are some of the best I've seen (not so keen on the new spray-on suits for Skyfall though). The ending has also grown on me, I like the nonchalent dropping of Vesper's necklace as if to simply say "job done" - contrary to what some say, I see this as emphasising the fact that her betrayal put an end to Bond's feelings for her, rather than the Kazan scene being him getting revenge for her death.
I do feel it really underperformed it's potential though. There are a number of things that let it down - the CGI scenes were quite embarrassing, the desert scene was annoying, shame Mathis had to be killed off, Camille was a weak character (and slightly unconvincing). After such a good film as CR was (we're all agreed on that, right?!) and with such strong characters in it - I'm sure the combination of CR being written by IF and QoS being caught up in the strike is the main reason - this seemed a bit limp and flat in comparrison and I think that's why a lot of people say it's no good. Maybe it would have fared a bit better had it not been a follow on?
From what I have seen and heard of Skyfall, QoS was hopefully just a temporary blip... We'll know in a month! Hope it's been worth the wait!
Hi welcome Mr Beech. -{
Your views seem to match mine, I hated QOS when it first came out ( Or escaped )
But I've softened to it over the years. Mainly because with Skyfall they seem to of corrected
most of the problems I had with QOS.
And I thought I was the Only one who thought the new suits where far too tight.
The editing is nauseating.
The Field’s oil scene is almost laughable, a weak attempt to conjure up thoughts of GF, except GF is 100 times better.
The opera house scene which starts out so promising and is filmed beautifully completely ruined by an unnecessary shootout
Much like cartoon characters, Bond and Camille fall thousands of feet from an airplane with the parachute opening just before impact resulting in no apparent injuries.
Camille, a very forgettable female lead.
The attempted rape of the maid/housekeeper.
The score and opening song are unremarkable.
The plot is silly and attempts to have a “environmental” twist to it.
Bond’s mumbling
Way too much M. M’s relationship with Brosnan was much better.
QoS is the only Bond film I have not purchased a DVD copy of so that I can watch it again, I simply don’t want to, far better Bond movies to watch and enjoy.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
MR would be slightly higher rated than QoS for me because at least some of the time during MR I had a smile on my face. It should be noted that both MR and QoS had main characters falling from the sky and not showing any sign of injury.
jk- you're right there.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMybO94OYno
But of course, that's his opinion. Obviously. But personally I don't have any opinion of Quantum of Solace that hasn't been stated a million times before. Although I will say that, even though I skipped Quantum of Solace in the theater, due to hearing negative reviews from movie critics on TV. And even though I was dreading, picking up Quantum of Solace on DVD, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Because I had lowered my expectations and I had believed I was going to be watching an absolutely terrible, horrible, GOD AWFUL, piece of crap of a freaking movie, but in the end it wasn't THAT BAD because I had immensely lowered my expectations going into the damn thing.
And it's always great; going into a movie with drastically lowered expectations, so you simply won't be disappointed because you weren't expecting much from it.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Yes, it's like saying that the theatrical toy commercials that Joel Schumacher made starring Val Kilmer, George Clooney, and a character who is supposedly Batman are not that bad.
Say what you want about Tim Burton's "Batman" films, at least they were films. They were not good films because of Peter Guber, Jon Peters and Tim Burton...And because of the writer's strike but they're ABSOLUTELY NOT colorful toy commercials that blind you with flashing lights and beat you over the head with a plastic hammer while shouting "BATMAN" like the Joel Schumacher "pictures" do.
as one of the reviews.
TP, you crack me up!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
That's like entitling one of the Bond films as Never Say Never Again, Tomorrow Never Dies or Die Another Day....Oooh, wait....
Yep, that pretty much sums it up.
But it's not a write off. The one real highlight is the opera scenes, worthy of any Bond film. I also enjoy the hotel scenes and Bond's confrontation with Vesper's boyfriend.
My biggest issues with the film are the editing and tasteless scenes. I really dislike the fast cut editing technique. It's difficult to work out what's happening, you cannot savour the action and enjoy it. I particularly dislike the attempted rape scene, and also Bond dumping Mathis' body into a skip and stealing his money for good measure, unworthy of any Bond film.
- The Wrong Metaphor Association Society
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Yeah I don't think he had much choice considering he was a wanted man in a hurry etc, also reflects a little of the cold ruthlessness of Flemming's Bond
Now, I could imagine such a scene in Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy where I would indeed applaud the subtext of such a scene (placing Mathis in a dumper, not taking a dump in a jungle), that the 'hero' is a man who eschews sentimentality or feelings and must keep on the move in a dirty, treacherous world... But in a Bond film, one where a lot of it isn't really that intelligent or plausible, nah....
Doesn't help that even now fans can't decide whether Mathis was indeed a traiter, or whether his name was a codename or cover name... jeez.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I am not certain if those remarks were aimed at me or someone else? An explanation would be welcome.
Roger Moore 1927-2017