Your views on fox hunting?

Silhouette Man · September 2012

What are the thoughts of members here on the rather controversial blood sport of fox hunting? Here in the UK the sport of the upper classes has been banned in Scotland since 2002 and in England and Wales since February 2005 and the passage of the Hunting Act 2004 in November 2004. It was a highly controversial issue, akin to the protests seen at the time of the start of the Iraq War in March 2003. Interestingly, fox hunting is not as yet banned in the last remaining part of the UK, Northern Ireland, or, indeed in the Republic of Ireland. Fox hunting still goes on in certain states of the United States and indeed around the world. Ian Fleming himself had a hatred of hunting, shooting and fishing, even though that this background came with such blood sports as a given.

There were suggestions over on CBn (back in 2008) that fox hunting should be used in thew pre-titles sequence to Skyfall. I could see something like this working, too, but as it is illegal to fox hunt (in the classic sense) in most of the UK I could not see how this could now be done. The whole fox hunting debate was highly controversial and was one of the most controversial laws ennacted by the Tony Blair-led New Labour Government of 1997-2007. See this webpage for evidence of Prime Minister Tony Blair's disinterested views on the fox hunting debate:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/9562031/Tony-Blair-accidentally-supported-fox-hunting-ban-after-he-misspoke-on-Question-Time.html

So, AJBers, what are your views on the blood sport of fox hunting, hunting, shooting, fishing in general etc.?

UPDATE EDIT: Can anyone here on AJB think of any spy thriller links to fox hunting at all?

minigeff · September 2012

Silhouette Man wrote:

So, CBners, what are your views on the blood sport of fox hunting, hunting, shooting, fishing in general etc.?

Erm, we're 'ajbers' here pal 8-) obviously you've been busy posting this conundrum elsewhere....

As for the topic in hand;

I am not 'upper' class, nor born with a silver piece of cutlery lodged anywhere within my person.

I shoot, but never game. I honestly think that if people want to shoot game for the pot then so be it. I don't see the point in simply shooting for the sake of it, unless its part of controlled land management. A gamekeeper doing his job is very different from billy bob taking the 12 bore for a walk after work.

With fox hunting though, I'm not even going there. Why? Because in my experience you never ever come to a conclusion. Those who oppose it will never change, neither will people who support it. There is never an agreement or compromise. In fact the only thing it does cause is arguments and good friends falling out over a daft issue that was (for us Brits) banned years back as part of Tony Bliar's political vote winning BS, along with the pathetically ineffective handgun ban.

So really, what's the point mr silhouette in dragging up this discussion?

Silhouette Man · September 2012

minigeff wrote:

Silhouette Man wrote:

So, CBners, what are your views on the blood sport of fox hunting, hunting, shooting, fishing in general etc.?

Erm, we're 'ajbers' here pal 8-) obviously you've been busy posting this conundrum elsewhere....

As for the topic in hand;

I am not 'upper' class, nor born with a silver piece of cutlery lodged anywhere within my person.

I shoot, but never game. I honestly think that if people want to shoot game for the pot then so be it. I don't see the point in simply shooting for the sake of it, unless its part of controlled land management. A gamekeeper doing his job is very different from billy bob taking the 12 bore for a walk after work.

With fox hunting though, I'm not even going there. Why? Because in my experience you never ever come to a conclusion. Those who oppose it will never change, neither will people who support it. There is never an agreement or compromise. In fact the only thing it does cause is arguments and good friends falling out over a daft issue that was (for us Brits) banned years back as part of Tony Bliar's political vote winning BS, along with the pathetically ineffective handgun ban.

So really, what's the point mr silhouette in dragging up this discussion?

Sorry for the CBn misnomer - my mistake, but I have amended the post to reflect the different forum.

I'm writing an article about fox hunting at the moment and am very interested in collating Bond fan views on this topic - I know (and have stated) this is obviously a controversial topic. I don't want people falling out over this or anything. I just want to generate some debate on this issue now that the most heated exchanges on it are over.

There are fox huntring links with the literary and cinematic James Bond, so it is not unreasonable of me to post this thread on a Bond forum to collate fan opinion, I think.

minigeff · September 2012

No, it's not unreasonable for you to post this here, it is in the 'off topic' section after all.

What I'm pointing out here is that although the ban came years ago, tensions still run high and some people on both sides continue to feel very strongly about their stance on the subject. I can't see that time has healed things tbh, and I doubt you'll have 'a quiet little chat' about it.

Le Samourai · September 2012

I'm a vegetarian and an animal rights supporter. Can you guess where I stand on the issue? If you can't, here's a blog post I wrote relating to fox hunting for Change.org:

http://bosworthonline.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/victorious-tories-set-sights-on-foxes/

FYI: I avoid online political debates, so I will say my peace and that's it. I won't be following this thread or posting additional comments.

Lexi · September 2012

minigeff wrote:

No, it's not unreasonable for you to post this here, it is in the 'off topic' section after all.

What I'm pointing out here is that although the ban came years ago, tensions still run high and some people on both sides continue to feel very strongly about their stance on the subject. I can't see that time has healed things tbh, and I doubt you'll have 'a quiet little chat' about it.

Well said MG...

A tinder box just ready for a light...and it wouldn't take much to set it aflame,
Bond related or not!

minigeff · September 2012

It's already starting to slide so ill throw in my chips.

I've also got important business to do, a fresh batch of fox blood arrived today and I've got to smear it on the face of the nearest child

)

) utter bollocks.

Only joking, I've got to go machine gun the countryside, it's what us country bumpkins do, apparently.

MG -{

Thunderpussy · September 2012

When the fox is allowed to ride a horse as well, I'll
go along with fox hunting.

chrisisall · September 2012

Meh- Tiger hunting armed only with a sword is a sport for a MAN! :v

0073 · September 2012

Silhouette Man wrote:

What are the thoughts of members here on the rather controversial blood sport of fox hunting? Here in the UK the sport of the upper classes has been banned in Scotland since 2002 and in England and Wales since February 2005 and the passage of the Hunting Act 2004 in November 2004. It was a highhly controversial issue, akin to the protests seen at the time of the start of the Iraq War in March 2003. Interestingly, fox hunting is not as yet banned in the last remaining part of the UK, Northern Ireland, or, indeed in the Republic of Ireland. Fox hunting still goes on in certain states of the United States and indeed around the world. Ian Fleming himself had a hatred of hunting, shooting and fishing, even though that this background came with such blood sports as a given.

There were suggestions over on CBn (back in 2008) that fox hunting should be used in thew pre-titles sequence to Skyfall. I could see something like this working, too, but as it is illegal to fox hunt (in the classic sense) in most of the UK I could not see how this could now be done. The whole fox hunting debate was highly controversial and was one of the most controversial laws ennacted by the Tony Blair-led New Labour Government of 1997-2007. See this webpage for evidence of Prime Minister Tony Blair's disinterested views on the fox hunting debate:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/9562031/Tony-Blair-accidentally-supported-fox-hunting-ban-after-he-misspoke-on-Question-Time.html

So, AJBers, what are your views on the blood sport of fox hunting, hunting, shooting, fishing in general etc.?

X-( X-( X-( X-(

Here in Finland fishing, hunting and shooting (the way Brits see it) are all protected by Everymans Right, as long as you have the proper permits (fishing, hunting and weapon license and if shooting big game like moose or bear the land owners permit. Usually this is taken care of by belonging to the hunting club that hunts on certain land area (yes this is a bit simplified)). Therefore it can't be exactly called "upperclass" hobby. My opinion is: as long as you are either willing to eat what you kill, or are killing vermin and therefore taking care of the nature, go right ahead. This nonsense about animal being "equal" is driving me nuts. There was 1300 moose/elk related accidents in Finnish roads last year, and even though 10-12 people perish in these accidents annually, no one died last year. So I take a very dim view about all these nutters who in Finland come to public demanding that hunting should be banned. And no they have no viable suggestions how to prevent these moose accidents if the moose population is allowed to grow un-controllably.

...... maybe this belongs to the rantbox

EDIT: D*mn it, I forgot to mention: I do all of this (hunting, shooting and fishing, (nets, rods, ice fishing)) and I absolutely luuuuuw the taste of game animals. Cow has nothing compared to elk, deer or bear, and chicken has no taste at all when compared to game birds....... Does this make me biased? 8-)

Napoleon Plural · September 2012

The ban on fox hunting was introduced by New Labour when all was at relatively peace with the world - the IRA bombing campaign was pretty much over, and al Quaida yet to explode onto the world with 9/11 - and there wasn't much else to do. Blair himself admits that this is an issue he 'just didn't get' in terms of the strong feeling on both sides. He says it's the one piece of legislation he passed that he regrets, though that tells you something about the bloke really.

I think there's something in the human psyche about horse riding that goes back centuries, and bike riding seems to be similar. That's on reason why hunters are loathe to give it up. It's a pyschological thing.

Wilde · September 2012

I don't really care either way and agree that it's a matter that can never be concluded. Without taking sides, I must confess that I do have a lot of experience in dealing with animal rights protesters, some of them (the hard-cores anyway) are very nasty people who ironically, have just about as little regard for life as those they campaign to thwart.

Regards,
Wilde

minigeff · September 2012

god its like a car crash, i can't help but pop back and see how this is going...

i think one solution is to put all the fox lovers into a bullring with a group of chicken farmers, add a few pointy sticks and see how it goes.

The Domino Effect · September 2012

I have been fortunate enough to have tracked animals in Africa, North America, South America and Australia and I know the fantastic thrill of the hunt first-hand. However, I was only carrying a camera. Tracking an animal, especially a dangerous animal, is an adrenalin-pumping awesome experience. You have to use all of your senses and the experience and knowledge of a tracker or guide. Although I've been terrified a few times, I have loved every single minute. And my trophies - photographs - are amongst my most prized possessions. So while I can certainly appreciate the allure of hunting, I am completely at a loss to understand the satisfaction that comes from tracking something for hours...finding it, and then killing it. And as for hunters who sit in hides and wait for the game to come to them, where's the game in that? I think that should be banned.

All of that said, as others have said, I am not opposed to hunting for the purpose of culling over-population caused by man. If we didn't cull in those situations in which we have created the problem, the wildlife would suffer even more. Of course, ideally we shouldn't have to cull because we shouldn't interfere in the first place but that's another discussion altogether. As a carnivore, I am also not opposed to hunting for food. I think it would be hypocritical of me to criticise someone who hunts a wild boar and eats every last bit when I myself love all sorts of meat.

As for fox hunting, I am not a fox hunter nor have I ever tried it or been tempted to. I have seen hunts when I have been driving through the countryside and it really is a beautiful sight to see horse and hound bounding across fields and down small lanes. Fox hunting is cruel, but I also think it's part of our history and culture - and many, many things in our history and culture are cruel and yet we permit them to continue (in-breeding small pretty dogs to get even smaller pretty dogs for people to dress-up and treat like children). I think it's a shame that the hunt was banned even if it's not my personal cup of tea.

Thunderpussy · September 2012

My wife is a Farmers daughter and she has told me many times about the Damage
done to her family's Fences and walls by the fox hunters. Which they never come to repair.
So I have to agree with Oscar Wilde,

"The unspeakable chasing the uneatable. "

Simply because we've done something for a long time, Doesn't make it right or we
could still have some of these great fun things.

Slavery, Beating your wife, dog fighting ( although some still love this quaint old custom )
work houses, etc.
Some people just get off on crulety.

Now I'm off, and will leave this subject alone.

minigeff · September 2012

)

and this is why all this discussion was a bad idea in the first place.

fox hunting, hunting in general, shooting, guns, horses, toffs, game shooting, using hides, etc etc.

it just snowballs, everyone thinks they're an expert and it all ends up with people shouting and bawling over a subject so huge that we all end up arguing different points over different aspects;

"how can you call sitting in a hide fair sport?!"

"my fence is bust!!"

"bloody shooters!!!"

all of a sudden people who take part in target shooting are getting blamed for a pigeon hiding in a fox that jumped over someones camera and destroyed a fence.

it's like a bar room brawl with everyone trying to get their say and way and non of it going anywhere near a conclusion.

tracking and killing endagered animals in africa is very very very different to shooting pigeons from a hide with an air rifle.

if we're gonna discuss something, at least try and keep to one subject.

oh and for god's sake, please don't anyone mention bull fighting........ ah crap.

Silhouette Man · September 2012

Napoleon Plural wrote:

The ban on fox hunting was introduced by New Labour when all was at relatively peace with the world - the IRA bombing campaign was pretty much over, and al Quaida yet to explode onto the world with 9/11 - and there wasn't much else to do. Blair himself admits that this is an issue he 'just didn't get' in terms of the strong feeling on both sides. He says it's the one piece of legislation he passed that he regrets, though that tells you something about the bloke really.

I think there's something in the human psyche about horse riding that goes back centuries, and bike riding seems to be similar. That's on reason why hunters are loathe to give it up. It's a pyschological thing.

Ah, I think you'll find that you're wrong on this: as shoul;d be apparent from my post the fox hunting ban was introduced in Scotland in 2002, in England and Wales in 2005 - 9/11 happened some three years earlier on 11 September 2001. So, it makes even less sense, in my view, why New Labour spent so much legislative time on this 'third term' issue. Facts and dates are facts - they can't be argued with. Rathger than banning fox hunting, Blair could have spent the time on reforming our overbloated civil service, and the much-needed and yet undelivered reform of our public services.

Silhouette Man · September 2012

Le Samourai wrote:

I'm a vegetarian and an animal rights supporter. Can you guess where I stand on the issue? If you can't, here's a blog post I wrote relating to fox hunting for Change.org:

http://bosworthonline.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/victorious-tories-set-sights-on-foxes/

FYI: I avoid online political debates, so I will say my peace and that's it. I won't be following this thread or posting additional comments.

Oh, you are. Well, what about the rights of game and poultry, or do they not matter? Such are the strangely divided loyalties of the animal rights lobby in this country and elsewhere.

minigeff · September 2012

I'm still laughing about the 'blooding' bit in that blog

) smeering fresh fox blood on kiddies faces

) yeah ok, so not only does cute foxy woxy get ripped to bits;

but the hunt also risks being done for child abuse

)

I couldn't personally give a crap if the hunting ban was reversed, but its not gonna happen so I think we can all just go back to what we were doing.

What pisses me off more is the fact a guy can be prime minister, make terrible decisions, and then when he's left he can then admit his incompetence without facing any comeback at all.

He'll be admitting his holiday in sunny Iraq was 'a bit of boo boo' next.

Silhouette Man · September 2012

Yes, Prime Minister Tony Blair - the one that banned fox hunting but sent hundreds of our UK armed forces to their deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan and thousands of civilians to their deaths also. Nice to know he had his priorities right.

GordoLeiter · September 2012

"boo hoo hoo!, now i wont get my steak....."

chrisisall · September 2012

GordoLeiter wrote:

"boo hoo hoo!, now i wont get my steak....."

Animals do not deserve to live.
Wait- aren't WE animals??

Oh frack, that's why war exists...

...nevermind... 8-)

Thunderpussy · September 2012

A mate asked me to go clubbing with him, But there are Only so many Baby Seals you can kill.

minigeff · September 2012

What's red, sits in the corner and gets smaller and smaller?

EDIT; absolutely nothing at all, as an answer to this could be mistaken for humour, which is banned forthwith.

Silhouette Man · September 2012

I think that this thread has rather gone off course - see the one over on CBn for how it should have went instead. I wanted to discuss Bondian links back to fox hunting and spy thrillers with fox hunting in them, but instead I'm attacked on all sides from the word go and get sick jokes instead of debate and fiction suggestions. How disappointing...

Hardyboy · September 2012

Silhouette Man wrote:

I think that this thread has rather gone off course - see the one over on CBn for how it should have went instead. I wanted to discuss Bondian links back to fox hunting and spy thrillers with fgox hunting in them, but instead I'm attacked on all sides and get sick jokes instead. How disappointing...

It's the usual group at it again, taking over a thread and making it all about their usual oh-so-funny concerns.

To try to get this back on course, I'll say that I support hunting if the hunter actually uses the prey for food and clothing (in Texas, deer hunting is very popular and usually the hunters like their venison and deer jerky); but game hunting leaves me cold. I'm especially appalled by ivory hunters who destroy magnificent elephants just for their tusks and sailors from certain countries (cough--Japan--cough) who flout international regulations and hunt whales.

As for Bond connections. . .well, hunts have figured in a few films but I don't think Ian Fleming used them in his novels. Still, I recognize that the image of the "hunted" spy is a common one, and that you can find fox hunts all over British lit. One of my favorite Victorians, Anthony Trollope, was an enthusiastic fox hunter and he put hunts in a few of his novels--described in nauseating detail.

So, long story short: I respect fox hunting's role in British history and culture, but I'm opposed to it, and I think it's one of those things that should be a part of the past.

minigeff · September 2012

Silhouette Man wrote:

I think that this thread has rather gone off course - see the one over on CBn for how it should have went instead. I wanted to discuss Bondian links back to fox hunting and spy thrillers with fgox hunting in them, but instead I'm attacked on all sides and get sick jokes instead. How disappointing...

Yeah but your thread is titled 'your views on fox hunting', so what did you expect?

As HB dutifully points out, it's forbidden for topics to wander off, even more so if people include humour.

Apologies all round for even using AJB, nice one HB, this personal mission of yours against anyone having a laugh is seriously running AJB into the ground.

Sir Miles · September 2012

Silhouette Man wrote:

I think that this thread has rather gone off course - see the one over on CBn for how it should have went instead. I wanted to discuss Bondian links back to fox hunting and spy thrillers with fgox hunting in them, but instead I'm attacked on all sides and get sick jokes instead. How disappointing...

Well you didn't really ask for Bondian links to foxhunting did you..?...you asked for members opinions on foxhunting and bloodsports in general...and at AJB it is obviously a touchy subject...and one I very nearly deleted before a response was given - these types of topics only tend to go one way in the end...

Hardyboy · September 2012

minigeff wrote:

As HB dutifully points out, it's forbidden for topics to wander off, even more so if people include humour.

Apologies all round for even using AJB, nice one HB, this personal mission of yours against anyone having a laugh is seriously running AJB into the ground.

Sorry you feel that way and I won't bother wasting your time by saying "No one appreciates a joke like me--" because that in itself implies the writer is indeed without humor. And what I find really hilarious is an eye-rolling sigh with no threat or hint of censoring anything is taken as a strike against free speech. My friends in the Taliban will have a big laugh at that one. . .

Thunderpussy · September 2012

The only film I can think of the top of my Head to feature a Fox hunt
was The Omen 3, Nicley shot with great music. Red jackets do film well
against the English country side.
Can't think of any Bond connection apart fron Jenny Flex saying she
enjoys an early morning ride, So I suppose if she's into horses, she's
probably into hunting.
The Irish RM had some scenes but that's TV, and I do think Midsomer
Murders have had a few stories around the hunt.
I sure some film has had the hunt track down a man, Although this would
just be a homage to "The most dangerous game " 1932.

chrisisall · September 2012

Thunderpussy wrote:

A mate asked me to go clubbing with him, But there are Only so many Baby Seals you can kill.

)

Your views on fox hunting?

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