Is Skyfall a "classic" James Bond movie?
Stine007
Posts: 2MI6 Agent
I had this discussion with one of my friends about Skyfall, whether it could be characterized as a "classic" James Bond movie or not... how would you define a 'real' James Bond movie? What classic elements have to be represented in order for the audience to connect to the world of James Bond?
Comments
Gunbarrel
All action PTS
Memorable title song, currently hot artiste, title sequence with some style
Beautiful girls
Impressive villain
Stunning locations
Thrilling stunts (not CGI)
Genuine humour
Grandiose plot (that probably won't stand up to close examination)
A few nods to the long-term fans
Satisfying conclusion
A smile at the very end
I think Casino Royale will end up being DC's "classic" in 20 years time
Pretty much, yes! Best Bond movie in years.
No, it's a cross between Batman and Bourne with a dash of Blade Runner, The Empire Strikes Back (The scenes in Shanghai reminded me of Blade Runner and I thought Bond was in Cloud City), and Patriot Games. It has none of the individual elements that make Bond unique. None of the sexuality, none of the humor - Die Another Day was closer to a Bond movie than Skyfall.
However, this is not to say that Skyfall was not good theatre experience.
" I think Casino Royale will end up being DC's "classic" in 20 years time "
Also for a Classic Bond I'd rather have Bond working on his own initiative rather
than having M telling him what to do through an Ear piece.
Although Mabey I've been spoiled by all the great Bonds of the Past But I do
feel a little dissapointed that apart from the PTS, there where no Big
stunt or chase sequences in Skyfall ( apart from foot chases ) No big
car chase through London, Fight sequence on or about The London Eye
Still given its Minor Faults I do think they have ended it with a BRILLIANT set up
for the next outing to be a more traditional Romp. with some of Barbel's suggestions.
I think the biggest flaw with Skyfall (considering they incorporated many of the classic elements) was the lack of a car chase.
They had it all setup perfect for one also, e.g. DB5 escaping London
and remembered for the bringing in of Q and moneypenny back into the series, the reboot is complete with skyfall, and a bringing back of a male M and in a copy of the M office of old ,
I think it doffed its cap brilliantly to the rest of the series, DB5, M's padded office, the soundtrack (listen and you will hear some bars of OHMSS on one track, Q, Moneypenny etc whilst making Bond "believable" or as much anyone could believe it was real. I also loved the look of the whole film, Deakins should get an Oscar. The shot of Bond, M and the DB5 near Buachaille Etive Mor is as iconic as Connery leaning against his DB5 in Goldfinger.
The only downsides for me were the ending in the Chapel, thought it was a little flat and the dragons scene, looked slightly crowbared in.
The Shanghai tower block fight scene was brilliant and the opening was as good as CR.
Perdogg - I am sorry but Die Another Day was the nadir of the Bond series, the surfing scene and the invisible Aston was embarrassing.
Welshboy - the only problem with a car chase in the DB5 is what would it be up against ? Most modern cars would run rings around it, even a Corsa. But agree if they could have sorted it, would have made a good addition.
I think the one thing that Craig era has given us is a "future for Bond" after DAD it was out on its feet.
cheers
Nickp
Not may Bond Fans taught that when CRaig was annouce that he would churn out the two best Bond film since the 60's even the best.
The old Bond Purist denying brillance.
Bond and M. Then when Silva attacked, Bond would of been helped by a small team, fighting
all through the house, leading to the same ending.
which track has the ohmss
It was awful. I agree. However, it wasn't awful because it had elements, as few as there were, of the Bond genre. It was awful because of the lack movie making that EON used to put into the Bond movies prior to the Brosnan era.
Instead of removing the classic Bond elements, make a better movie that is not so PC.
The theme song has a brief element in the beginning.
Another requirement is that the film be saluted on its release by the greater public, possibly in a Jubilee year and when there is a high demand for a Bond film, due to absence from our screens. In this case, TSWLM fit the bill of course, but so did GE, being out after a six-year gap and at the height of Cool Britannia pretty much. So does Skyfall, it has a lot up on the screen and a change of location every 10 mins that is impressive. Personally I can't stand it, but there you go, the window dressing and timing can't be faulted.
Perhaps it ought to have one classic action scene that's iconic, and in my view I'm not sure SF really has that, nothing like the tank chase in GE or the ski jump in TSWLM.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Are you telling me jumping over dragons is not a daring stunt?
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Well, it is a "real" Bond movie as asked for in the first post, though it avoids classic status without effort- going by my list above as a bare minimum it lacks a memorable title song, a satisfying conclusion and an impressive villain, as well as having the CGI situation. (And I'm not a DAD-basher)
The rather outlandish plot, too much focus on M, and the feeling, to me anyway, that the movie really doesn't work that well as a whole drag the movie down.
Then again, after CR and QoS, I was actually glad that "the formula" seemed dead, so bring back formulaic elements is not a positive with me.
I am not really sure what is being defined by "formula". If you were to have a Star Wars with the USS Enterprise and Capt Kirk, you would be getting away from the "formula" but then again you would not have a Star Wars movie.
Bond movies are their own genres. They are not spy movies. This is where Skyfall crumbles. The movie franchise has tried to reinvent itself, essentially surrender, because the producers have failed in the post Cubby era.
They are saying they want to scrap the Fleming Bond legacy in favor of the Jason Statham/Strike Back/Bourne type series. No one can honesty and objectively say this movie was in the Bond, for good or bad, legacy.
1. GoldenEye 2. Goldfinger 3. Skyfall 4. OHMSS 5. TWINE
See Pussy, that is what happens when you try to get " too realistic " with Bond. If you are going to leave a bread crum trail for the villain and football team size crew shouldn't you try to have a little more back up than two Octogenarians and your dad's old shot gun on hand. I guess that is what happens when the modern day Bond doesn't have his ear piece in with mom telling him what to do.
I think Skyfall lacks the originality of other Bond classics, and may be negatively remembered for its uncanny resemblance to Nolan's Batman trilogy. I think Casino Royale will be the flagship of the Craig Era, for its stark novelty as a member of the series and as a film in general. Still, Skyfall will be seen as a success, and a good Bond (if slightly pretentious and overly-serious).
Although I like it a lot, for me it lacked the glamour and exoticism (despite the superb cinematography) needed to be a true classic.
What keeps it from quite being a "classic" Bond film isn't so much that it deviates from the established formula -- itself not necessarily a bad thing -- but that it presents Bond in so unrelentingly a negative a fashion. Despite his personal troubles, Bond generally has been treated as an upbeat figure -- think of the "playful" moments Bond has in even the most "serious" of Bond films, like Licence to Kill or On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Bond in Skyfall has humor, but he's presented far more brooding here than in the previous film, and tonally, the film rarely deviates from that mood, even with some of the moments of humor. It's pretty common for contemporary films to be rather one-note in their emotional tone, but the classic Bond series films were capable of having highs and lows -- Bond could be light-hearted in one scene and then grieving in another, just like real people don't go through their days with the same emotional mood all the time. To me, that's what keeps Skyfall most from feeling like a more classic Bond film. I can live with the more "personal" climax and even with the somewhat baffling ending that still makes me wonder if Bond was responsible for getting M killed rather than saving her life, which I think was intended to be taken more as an OHMSS-type of tragic ending rather than the odd one it was to me and others in the audience.
By formulaic elements, I meant bringing back Q, Moneypenny, and the ridiculously old fashioned wood-paneled office with a padded door. I am more than willing to leave all that to history.
But then again I suspect where we disagree is that I consider QoS one of the most Flemingesque movies in the series. It's dark, grimy, not too grandiose, and had very little in the way of sexing up that most of the movies tended to do.
There is nothing Flemingesque about QoS. QoS was a Bourne ripoff.